Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[Bestiarius]

I could set it to L-jump, like the Lucas boards do for a lot of their AT's. I use R for shield and Z for grab.

Ok, so this may be old news, but I've never seen this happen before. Earlier, I was playing a level 9 Link. He pulled out a bomb, and I did Squirtle's side-b. He just dropped the bomb. It just sat on the ground, the same way that a grenade does when Snake cooks it. Only thing is, Link can't cook bombs. I've tried. How'd this happen, can it be done to other players holding items, and could there possible be an application? Like, say, against a nanner-holding Diddy?

 

[T-block]

I thought Link could still do that in this game with platforms...I know he could in melee. Anyways, I don't see much of an application since when Diddy drops his banana, it's still considered his, and given how many ways he has of quickly picking up a banana it's probably not a big deal.

 

[Vermy]

Link short hopped before he was hit. At that low level, the bomb is dropped, unexploded. With precise timing, link can short hop and Z drop it on the ground. More effective with tlink because he can use the air push from a dair to "shoot" the bomb across the stage.

 

[stingers]

what is that true hydroplane stuff that reflex was talking about in the tier list thread

 

[typh]

its when your playing brawl in a car and it's a rainy day and you turn a little too fast because you're not paying attention to the road because you're in a really close and intense match

 

[luke_atyeo]

lol typh your awesome <3

 

[Zigsta]

its when your playing brawl in a car and it's a rainy day and you turn a little too fast because you're not paying attention to the road because you're in a really close and intense match

This is true. I did it on the way to HOBO 18.

 

[Bestiarius]

Maybe so, Zigsta, but you can't truly true hydroplane. Only Reflex can fully true hydroplane. When he lets go of the steering wheel, all the cars around him shoot up into the sky and spin around and then turn into stars.

 

[Kith]

B-air (unsweet spotted) to forward tilt (aimed up) is a nice little combo that can set up for more stuff depending on the character. Anyone else use this?

 

[Asa]

yes, I do it with fair as wel, I really like it. Plus it trips sometimes.

 

[Kith]

It can be done with fair too, but when I play squirtle I try (as much as I can lol) to bair way more than fair. It's got more range and can be spaced better, and let's fair have more kill potential later.

 

[T-block]

i've just gotten into the habit of tacking an f-tilt onto the end of everything lol. <3 that move

 

[Steeler]

we all need to use dsmash more near the edge

 

[dre_89_]

That's what I always thought but i thought I'd sound like a scrub if I said that.

 

[Bestiarius]

I prefer dtilt at the edge becaus eit hits lower, or at least seems to, in order to keep people from grabbing onto the edge.

 

[Toby.]

we all need to use dsmash more near the edge

Like I did to shaya?

I laughed IRL when I did it

 

[Vermy]

Wouldn't a properly spaced dsmash hydroplane work better?

I don't see/hear many PTs use dsmash hp. I use it against players who roll a lot/fish for grabs.

 

[Toby.]

I'm not sure how a dsmash hydroplane would work any better than a normal one at the edge :/

 

[T-block]

it extends the hitbox iirc, but i'm not sure how

i've been meaning to incorporate more hydroplane d-smash into my game, but it always seems to slip my mind. i've been using a lot more f-smash recently though.

 

[CoonTail]

I never really do anything but hydroplane and reverse shift d-smash. Im not really sure how to forward hydroplane the d-smash so mayb ill try that soon

 

[Zigsta]

I've started using dsmash more near the edge. It's pretty much ****. :O

 

[Toby.]

Yeah basically.

HP dsmash doesn't extend the hitbox per se. The hitbox size is the same, its just that since we are moving the effective range of the attack is increased. But since we are doing it at the edge that quality isn't necessary. Furthermore, the idea of dsmash at the ledge is that we catch the opponent as they drop to do a ledge hop (or prior to that if they've let their invincibility run out). Moving far enough away to do the hydroplane gives them plenty of time to hop safely.

 

[Kith]

I honestly can never find a good time to use D-Smash. When do people use that move o.O.

 

[Zigsta]

Time it when the enemy's about to grab the edge, or they jump up from the edge. The trajectory is pretty wicked.

Sometimes I'll try a dsmash out of hyrdoplaning, but I rarely attempt that. If I do, though, I'll use that in between grabs and upsmash out of hyrdoplane for ze mindgamez.

 

[Toby.]

You said you could never find a use for dsmash directly after I made a post outlining a use for dsmash :/

You can also use a HP Dsmash to punch through people if you want to get to the other side of the stage quickly. Because your hurtbox is so small and the attack naturally takes us away from our opponent it can often be done without risk of punishment. It works particularly well for this move because the hitbox stays out for a reasonable period of time.

 

[Zigsta]

Not gonna lie, Toby: I have to focus really, really hard to not read "HP" as Hidden Power.

 

[Toby.]

Same here :D :D :D

I prefer to think of it as Hidden Power Down Smash. Sounds cooler to me

 

[Kith]

You said you could never find a use for dsmash directly after I made a post outlining a use for dsmash :/

You can also use a HP Dsmash to punch through people if you want to get to the other side of the stage quickly. Because your hurtbox is so small and the attack naturally takes us away from our opponent it can often be done without risk of punishment. It works particularly well for this move because the hitbox stays out for a reasonable period of time.

To be honest, your outline of a use a DSmash assumes the opponent will let their invincibility run out, which isn't the case with the people I play regularly lol. Most cases, I'd honestly go for a quick ledge grab and force them onto the stage where I can punish. I don't know, maybe I just haven't sat at the edge, downsmashing enough. It may be the best technique in the world for all I know.

 

[Toby.]

And yet you play a ZSS who feels compelled to jump into your spikes

I'm well aware that its not always the best way to handle somebody at the edge. You said you couldn't find a use for it, and I provided a use. The fact that people can avoid it through invincibility frames is pretty pointless in the context of the discussion. Every time you attack somebody on the ledge they can avoid it if they are incincible.

The idea is that you pick up on the habit of an opponent and exploit it, Dsmash is one of our better means of punishing such habits.

Oh and I don't just stand there dsmashing at the ledge either

 

[Kith]

And yet you play a ZSS who feels compelled to jump into your spikes

I'm well aware that its not always the best way to handle somebody at the edge. You said you couldn't find a use for it, and I provided a use. The fact that people can avoid it through invincibility frames is pretty pointless in the context of the discussion. Every time you attack somebody on the ledge they can avoid it if they are incincible.

The idea is that you pick up on the habit of an opponent and exploit it, Dsmash is one of our better means of punishing such habits.

Oh and I don't just stand there dsmashing at the ledge either

lol I didn't mean to imply that you stand there dsmashing :-P. Really all I'm saying is that I don't use it enough to know...anything about dsmash. I was being completely...well almost completely...sincere when I said for all I know it could be the best technique in the world. I've probably never done it. The problem, how I see it at least, is that every time I'm confronted with that situation, I always feel that I have a better alternative. I appreciate you providing a use for dsmash, and I guess that's what I asked for, but I guess I was maybe looking for something else. It almost feels like it's a hopeful strat that could be punishable. I'm going to try it though, cause right now my opinion isn't really based on much seeing as how I've never actually given it a shot. I may be a believer tomorrow :-P.

P.S. That ZSS is Nick Riddle, one of the better and very well known players in Florida. He started going to my university this semester so I'm recording every spike I get on him and collecting them for my viewing pleasure :-P

 

[Zigsta]

I didn't even notice you had a new spike in your sig, Kith. Poor Nick.

 

[Kith]

I just need to find a spike with squirtle lol. Double foot stool?

 

[CoonTail]

Get a perfect dash attack stage spike it looks better than GnW's LOL.

Yes squirtles dash attack can do this!!!

 

[Toby.]

Kith, considering that he's a good player that actually supports my point - good players make mistakes. If he runs into spikes I'm sure its not unlikely that he sometimes sits on the edge too long as well. This does not mean that he's a bad player. Just human.On that note, while in america I landed the dsmash on havok, mikehaze and bardull...you can still trick good players into these sorts of things.

I understand what you're saying about dsmash being outclassed by safer or more effective moves. I'll phrase it in a way that highlights its usefulness better.

This is the only attack we have to hit a ledge dropping marth in such a way that leaves him completely unable to recover, if we do it right. Considering that it can immediately take out such an awkward matchup, I think its safe to say that looking for the moment to use it is worthwhile

Obviously this holds true for other characters as well. For once thing it causes snake a LOT of trouble because he has to begin the cypher from low down...allowing us to gimp his c4 recovery with water gun.

 

[Steeler]

yeah anyone with poor horizontal recovery gets ***** by this move

every time you edgehog a marth and force them to land on stage, you should get up and punish with a dsmash EVERY time. unless it's like really low percent, in which case, juggle him.

if the opponent is vulnerable near the edge or you have a good read on them, dsmash is going to be your best option against a lot of characters.

lol kith i think your newest spike is even better than the first

 

[Kith]

Kith, considering that he's a good player that actually supports my point - good players make mistakes. If he runs into spikes I'm sure its not unlikely that he sometimes sits on the edge too long as well. This does not mean that he's a bad player. Just human.On that note, while in america I landed the dsmash on havok, mikehaze and bardull...you can still trick good players into these sorts of things.

I understand what you're saying about dsmash being outclassed by safer or more effective moves. I'll phrase it in a way that highlights its usefulness better.

This is the only attack we have to hit a ledge dropping marth in such a way that leaves him completely unable to recover, if we do it right. Considering that it can immediately take out such an awkward matchup, I think its safe to say that looking for the moment to use it is worthwhile

Obviously this holds true for other characters as well. For once thing it causes snake a LOT of trouble because he has to begin the cypher from low down...allowing us to gimp his c4 recovery with water gun.

Like I said, I'm going to definitely give it a shot and see how it goes lol. I definitely see the potential against snake early game. Marth is going to be a little harder, seeing as how everytime I'm near the ledge, the only Marth I really play consistently does a retreating F-air off the ledge. I'll see if this works against him at least once lol. Thanks for the advice :-).

yeah anyone with poor horizontal recovery gets ***** by this move

every time you edgehog a marth and force them to land on stage, you should get up and punish with a dsmash EVERY time. unless it's like really low percent, in which case, juggle him.

if the opponent is vulnerable near the edge or you have a good read on them, dsmash is going to be your best option against a lot of characters.

lol kith i think your newest spike is even better than the first

Lmao thanks. I need something for squirtle though to complete my trio of gimps.

 

[Bestiarius]

i assume this works for every character in the game, and i'm sure it has been discovered, but t's a decent way to make a very fast squirtle even faster. Since every character has a startup lag time when they do a jump, if you input an aerial whle the character is rearing back, crouching down, whatever, the aerial will be done pretty much while you're still on the ground, making faster than short-hopping it, and it will usually have the same range as doing it short-hopped, only it will have no landing lag. i guess that's kinda auto-cancelling, but it just seems different to me. I know this works with each poke's neutral air, which makes it best for Ivy since his moves are so laggy, but it helps speed up the other two as well. And hey, as if Squirtle wasn't fast enough, anything to make him faster is good, right? What is this called?

 

[Zigsta]

That would be auto-canceling, Beast.

 

[Vermy]

Poor Beast. </3
At least you're trying.

Everyone experiment with hydrograbs. Hydrograbs are amazing. And glide tossing. My Squirtle is insanely **** with nanas now. Diddy's do not like being tripped and taking a dsmash from halfway across the freakin' stage.

Also, clash Squirtle's fsmash and Wario's and they both take damage, but receive no knockback. Is lol.

 

[Magik0722]

I'm starting to think hydrograb isnt that great, its too telegraphed