Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[Toby.]

uncharged WG can punish spotdodging, but there isn't much point considering squirtle has safer options that grant us followups at the same time.

They could probably also SDI the uncharged WG behind us, giving them a free grab or attack.

 

[Ishiey]

From what I've seen and tried, there isn't a single use for uncharged water gun that doesn't suck horribly compared to Squirtle's other options.

That being said, uncharged water gun offstage to steal someone's second jump? >__>

 

[typh]

i uncharged water gun to pop balloons

 

[Ishiey]

i uncharged water gun to pop balloons

Typh is a genius. I can't believe I didn't think of this

Best use for uncharged water gun right here.

 

[Miles.]

Full hop uncharged watergun DIing away is really safe.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

I heard Withdraw has some momentum canceling properties.

Is this true?

 

[Toby.]

Yes.

yesyesyesyesyes.

 

[Magik0722]

So what matchups wouldnt you guys start off as squirtle as? He has become my #1 Lead

 

[T-block]

ike, ganondorf, marth... i usually start charizard for metaknight and donkey kong too

otherwise it's squirtle all the way

 

[Steeler]

magik has seen the light...!!

mk depending on playstyle and stage
wario depending on stage
marth
ic's depending on stage
dk
sheik maybe, haven't played many good ones
bowser same as sheik
ike
jigglypuff depending on stage
falcon
ganondorf

 

[T-block]

charizard start works well for sheik... being combo'd doesn't matter because you can rock smash out of basically all of her combos, including f-tilt lock

 

[Asa]

Not that squirtle has a lack of kill moves, but I was wondering if bair spaces well enough to use fair as more of a kill move?

 

[Steeler]

if you are trying to space, bair is usually superior to fair because it has a larger hitbox; in fact, it may be disjointed at the tail...maybe. but hydrojump bair is sooooooo good against some tough characters like falco or wario. it may be your best aerial spacing technique.

if you are planning on KOing with squirtle then you should be a little more wary of using fair when you don't need to, but if you use it once or twice it'll still be strong enough to set up a gimp at the very least.

but to me it does seem like you have more aerial mobility with fair than with bair if you just shorthop either move. bair is still good though.

 

[Retro Gaming]

but to me it does seem like you have more aerial mobility with fair than with bair if you just shorthop either move. bair is still good though.

I think this is true, both Squirtle's Fair/Bair make you move in the direction of your attack when you fast-fall with both sticks, but I seem to gain a lot more ground in one Fair than with Squirtle's Bair.

Rising full hop Bair is what I like to do through Battlefield platforms.

 

[Ryusuta]

So what matchups wouldnt you guys start off as squirtle as? He has become my #1 Lead

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228591

 

[T-block]

Full hop d-air guys...start using it

It ends at the perfect height above the ground to go into either a double jump or autocancelled f-air/b-air. PokemonmasterIRL told me you can ISJR with it too. Use it as a mixup approach or as a retreat. Full hop d-air > b-air > turnaround jab covers a retreat really nicely.

 

[Miles.]

start as squirtle against everyone other than dk.

vs dk start as ivy and 3 stock him.

 

[CoonTail]

Does anyone know where in this thread the discussion of n-air took place or is it just scattered all over the place, I wanna take a look into what is really noted about each of those moves and see if there are any updates needed to be made.

 

[Steeler]

well i'm 99% sure that nair doesn't have heavy armor or anything of the sort. i think that comes from an old claim that all of squirtle's shell attacks (and even his pivot s_s) have some kind of armor, but it should only apply to fsmash (super armor) and withdraw (super saiyan armor)

 

[Phiddlesticks]

All Frieza had to do was footstool Goku and he would have had enough time to hit him with a Destructo Disc thingie

 

[Ryusuta]

...Or grab him or throw some ice at him.

 

[Asa]

Something to note. When you're doing the reverse hydroplane, you can alter the timing slightly (idk to mix it up a little/ throw off your opponent's expectations) by stalling in the shell, then continuing the input for the hydroplane.

Dash forward - tap back on the control stick - press back on the control stick (same way you tapped) and press jump and usmash

I haven't seen anyone do this, so I thought I'd mention it.

 

[Miles.]

are talking about just foward hydroplaning?

just running foward and hydroplaning an upsmash?

 

[Zigsta]

magik has seen the light...!!

mk depending on playstyle and stage
wario depending on stage
marth
ic's depending on stage
dk
sheik maybe, haven't played many good ones
bowser same as sheik
ike
jigglypuff depending on stage
falcon
ganondorf

Ditto. Sheik is really annoying as Squirtle since she has an ftilt lock. At least...I think it was ftilt, haha.

 

[Asa]

are talking about just foward hydroplaning?

just running foward and hydroplaning an upsmash?

Lol yeah we need to get the terminology straight

Hydroplaning is the one where you run away from the opponent, turn around, then input jump and usmash correct?

And forward hydroplaning is the one where you hydroplane while running towards your opponent

I was talking about regular hydroplaning

Sorry I worded it wrong

Run away from opponent
Tap forward on the control stick
Press forward on the control stick and input jump and usmash

 

[Kith]

Hey I'm sorry if this has already been posted...I didn't want to go through so many pages lol. Has anyone else found Squirtle's Jab Lock Infinite? I just figured it out in training mode and it's pretty nice :-P

 

[T-block]

Er...if you truly mean infintie, then no, please share. Everyone knows about jab locking across the stage, but I don't think anyone has found a way to reliably reverse it. Remember your opponent can always SDI towards the edge of the stage to minimize the damage.

 

[Kith]

The timing is a bit tricky (I'll post a video of it when I can). But basically, if you're close enough to the enemy while you do a second jab, you'll go through him. I just input Jab-Step-Jab-Step-Jab-Step until I'm close to the edge, in which case I'll Jab-Step-Jab again, but slightly sooner so that it will register as the second jab in Squirtles Jab combo) and I'll be behind the enemy. Granted, I haven't tried it on a human player. I'm gonna test it later on today and tell you what I find, but it looks like it should work.

 

[T-block]

Hmm...I've seen that done in one of Reflex's vids, but I'm pretty sure his opponent didn't SDI as much as he can. If they do, I don't think the second jab will be enough to get you behind him. Definitely test it out though...it'd be pretty huge if this were guaranteed.

 

[Toby.]

Reflex already tested this. If they SDI it, doing this is impossible.

 

[Steeler]

instead of trying to do the second jab through them, hop over them and nair to force them to tech again. if they miss then you can do it the opposite direction again

also a good jab lock setup is a footstool (short hop it) out of utilt combo to fastfall nair since most of the time they'll be expecting a uair follow up. i don't think it's guaranteed (maybe on really fat characters?) but it's a good mixup i guess.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

instead of trying to do the second jab through them, hop over them and nair to force them to tech again. if they miss then you can do it the opposite direction again

also a good jab lock setup is a footstool (short hop it) out of utilt combo to fastfall nair since most of the time they'll be expecting a uair follow up. i don't think it's guaranteed (maybe on really fat characters?) but it's a good mixup i guess.

It doesn't lock anyone. It'll confuse someone and might make them panic, but you'll never get a jab lock from this alone.

 

[Miles.]

we need to get aerial > footstool combos off level.

that would be legit.

 

[Bestiarius]

OK, I'll openly admit that I suck with Squirtle. He's my worst. However, my main problem is that I can't forward hydroplane. I've been trying it in Training Mode at various speeds for about an hour and a half, but I've only been able to do it at normal speed about 5 times. Every time I try, I keep RARing. What is my problem and how can I get better at doing this? My left thumb is on fire (blisterage) and my whole right hand hurts (I got pissed and hit my chair really hard . . . waaay too hard).Help me!!!!!!!

 

[Steeler]

if you keep RARing then that means you aren't attacking after the jump quick enough.

 

[Bestiarius]

Wait, you attack AFTER the jump?

 

[Steeler]

you jump and attack at the same time, the attack can come very slightly after the jump if you press attack while squirtle is still grounded, getting ready to jump

assuming you have tap jump off, just pretend the jump is like smashing the control stick up for up smash and you have to press an attack button at the same time or close to it for an up smash to come out

 

[Bestiarius]

But if you press attack a frame too soon, it seems like Squirtle will either dash attack (WAAAAY too soon) or RAR anyway (frame-ish too soon).

 

[Kith]

Tap jump ftw lol

 

[Vermy]

Beast, do you use Z, L or R for anything? If you don't use 1 of the 3, try setting it to Jump in custom settings. The command input needs to be this:

Dash>(Back+Jump+Usmash)
If the tap jump mode is too difficult or inconsistent (for me its the latter) using an unused button for hydro jump input may help.