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Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Hi guys
I'm here to learn squirtman, make fun of how stupid the movement names are, and agree with Mad about double aerials (don't try to do the stupid ike one though, it's not worth even trying)

I'm going to slowly delve into all the threads for information, but I have a few questions to ask for now:

What do you feel Squirtle win conditions are? Like what do you aim for to win nuetral and take the stocks? (Insert can't just side b joke I guess). Do you feel he is a rush down character or all super bait/punish using superior mobility? Combo monster or using his good gimping tools? Somehwere in the middle of all of these?

What do you guys go for for general combo strings? Upair is silly I know that, dtilt is crazy good (cc tho I guess), fair/bair can carry off stage well and Squirtle can follow up, up tilt got nerfed but does it still work well? Down Smash converts into a lot, is dair good?

What moves do you go for to make convertions? Do you go for grabs mostly to start things? Upthrow still good? Fthrow di mixup? Movement option>dsmash as major coverting tool? Bubble trips, is that used very often?

How the hell do I use bubble. Im used to trips from being a diddy main, but he doesn't convert the same way as Squirtle does off it and I can't figure it out, it feels like it's hard to follow up on hit depending on how they roll in respect to the stage and how much room I have to do another sling **** and react in time. Grounded bubble feels really good though.

How do I use water gun?

How the hell do I land aqua jet now? I can't even get it out half the time.

How do you guys threaten the space right in front of you quickly? I feel that's his worst trait in that he can't threaten in front of him well without doing something because his dash sucks. (I feel peach/rob/jiggs /wario could be really hard for this reason, if they aren't rough already)


I would like really good footage of Squirtle to figure it out and stuff, I'm going to dig through the video thread later but hints in who to watch would be great.

I should probably ask burnsy stuff too, it kinda would help considering we live in the same region lol.

This character is really fun, want to learn him. I don't think he does any MUs better than diddy that diddy would struggle in, unless you guys think squirtman beats spacies samus and peach, but I want to learn anyway.

Right now my Squirtle is booty because I haven't like, figured out game plans and stuff and suck if I don't plan ahead at least abstract things. Soon tho, I want to learn this character for a lot of reasons.
 
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PlateProp

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
4,149
Location
San Antonio
NNID
Genericality
3DS FC
3823-8710-2486
Hi guys
I'm here to learn squirtman, make fun of how stupid the movement names are, and agree with Mad about double aerials (don't try to do the stupid ike one though, it's not worth even trying)

I'm going to slowly delve into all the threads for information, but I have a few questions to ask for now:

What do you feel Squirtle win conditions are? Like what do you aim for to win nuetral and take the stocks? (Insert can't just side b joke I guess). Do you feel he is a rush down character or all super bait/punish using superior mobility? Combo monster or using his good gimping tools? Somehwere in the middle of all of these?

What do you guys go for for general combo strings? Upair is silly I know that, dtilt is crazy good (cc tho I guess), fair/bair can carry off stage well and Squirtle can follow up, up tilt got nerfed but does it still work well? Down Smash converts into a lot, is dair good?

What moves do you go for to make convertions? Do you go for grabs mostly to start things? Upthrow still good? Fthrow di mixup? Movement option>dsmash as major coverting tool? Bubble trips, is that used very often?

How the hell do I use bubble. Im used to trips from being a diddy main, but he doesn't convert the same way as Squirtle does off it and I can't figure it out, it feels like it's hard to follow up on hit depending on how they roll in respect to the stage and how much room I have to do another sling **** and react in time. Grounded bubble feels really good though.

How do I use water gun?

How the hell do I land aqua jet now? I can't even get it out half the time.

How do you guys threaten the space right in front of you quickly? I feel that's his worst trait in that he can't threaten in front of him well without doing something because his dash sucks. (I feel peach/rob/jiggs /wario could be really hard for this reason, if they aren't rough already)


I would like really good footage of Squirtle to figure it out and stuff, I'm going to dig through the video thread later but hints in who to watch would be great.

I should probably ask burnsy stuff too, it kinda would help considering we live in the same region lol.

This character is really fun, want to learn him. I don't think he does any MUs better than diddy that diddy would struggle in, unless you guys think squirtman beats spacies samus and peach, but I want to learn anyway.

Right now my Squirtle is booty because I haven't like, figured out game plans and stuff and suck if I don't plan ahead at least abstract things. Soon tho, I want to learn this character for a lot of reasons.
Give us your gmail

We never do anything here
 

Soft Serve

softie
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
4,164
Location
AZ
Give us your gmail

We never do anything here
Fair enough, the wolf group only works through Skype now adays, and the diddy players don't talk Sept me and mad, I'm used to this lol.


Ryan.hearn.zhi@gmail
 
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Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Squirtle is good, we're just bad.

He has a lot of movement so he can succeed in neutral, he can combo hard, techchase pretty well, and he has pretty substantial gimp/edgeguard potential. The catch is he's absurdly hard to play. Sound familiar? :fox:

It helps that people haven't figured out how to edgeguard us yet.
 
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Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Falco. Lol.

Life is probably right but ugh, I'm just not seeing it right now.
So this is incredibly ironic, but I just got a ride home from the winner of our weekly (who is also former Melee PR) who seems to think Squirtle is holding me back.

I got fourth today, getting eliminated by a Fox and a Falcon. (The first set was really sloppy on both our parts and the second set I switched to Marth and that proved to be a mistake.)

I'm not gonna give up on Squirtle that easily, but I was screwing around with Fox later and it was kinda disconcerting how small that gap was (I occasionally play Fox in friendlies but I don't practice his tech, I just dashdance and grab and upsmash and stuff--I can't even consistently SH with him--whereas I've put a substantial amount of practice into Squirtle).

Unfortunately we didn't get a stream up this time around, which is annoying because I wanna show you people my moves.

I just have to really think about why I play Squirtle, and where my confidence in him comes from.
 

SoulBoundX

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
26
So this is incredibly ironic, but I just got a ride home from the winner of our weekly (who is also former Melee PR) who seems to think Squirtle is holding me back.

I got fourth today, getting eliminated by a Fox and a Falcon. (The first set was really sloppy on both our parts and the second set I switched to Marth and that proved to be a mistake.)

I'm not gonna give up on Squirtle that easily, but I was screwing around with Fox later and it was kinda disconcerting how small that gap was (I occasionally play Fox in friendlies but I don't practice his tech, I just dashdance and grab and upsmash and stuff--I can't even consistently SH with him--whereas I've put a substantial amount of practice into Squirtle).

Unfortunately we didn't get a stream up this time around, which is annoying because I wanna show you people my moves.

I just have to really think about why I play Squirtle, and where my confidence in him comes from.
I've been getting a lot better with squirtle and im pretty good with him. Im not on dads level with him but im getting pretty good with him and i understand how you're suppose to play him. I'm best with falco though. Falco has everything he needs. There's not one thing i can complain about when it comes to falco. But squirtle.. He's fun, and he has potential, but he feels like a puzzle with missing pieces. When I play squirtle, i just feel like he's missing something. He doesn't feel like a complete character like falco does. Hopefully he'll be better and more complete in a later release.
 

dirtboy345

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
715
So this is incredibly ironic, but I just got a ride home from the winner of our weekly (who is also former Melee PR) who seems to think Squirtle is holding me back.

I got fourth today, getting eliminated by a Fox and a Falcon. (The first set was really sloppy on both our parts and the second set I switched to Marth and that proved to be a mistake.)

I'm not gonna give up on Squirtle that easily, but I was screwing around with Fox later and it was kinda disconcerting how small that gap was (I occasionally play Fox in friendlies but I don't practice his tech, I just dashdance and grab and upsmash and stuff--I can't even consistently SH with him--whereas I've put a substantial amount of practice into Squirtle).

Unfortunately we didn't get a stream up this time around, which is annoying because I wanna show you people my moves.

I just have to really think about why I play Squirtle, and where my confidence in him comes from.
Here's the thing, obviously this is only going from my own biased view but I don't have much else to go off from. Last week I took down 2 melee PR players and I lost to KJH in losers finals, I haven't even been going to tournaments a year but I still kept it close and took a game. Sure there's the him not knowing the matchup side of it but there's also me having miles of improvement to do. I don't think spacies are an unwinnable matchup in the slightest for squirtle, I think anyone who believes that is playing it wrong and not edgeguarding them correctly. You might be able to make an argument in saying that Fox and Falco are better characters than squirtle but even that can't be said this early. I honestly think Marth is muchhh harder, I posted the 3 streamed sets on the video sticky if you want to see where I'm going off from.
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
I've been getting a lot better with squirtle and im pretty good with him. Im not on dads level with him but im getting pretty good with him and i understand how you're suppose to play him. I'm best with falco though. Falco has everything he needs. There's not one thing i can complain about when it comes to falco. But squirtle.. He's fun, and he has potential, but he feels like a puzzle with missing pieces. When I play squirtle, i just feel like he's missing something. He doesn't feel like a complete character like falco does. Hopefully he'll be better and more complete in a later release.
What do you think Squirtle needs? The only thing that comes to mind for me is a way to deal with CC, and I think we can fix that ourselves if we can develop more grab setups that work against it (shellsling water gun is what I'm toying with right now, I've gotten it to work sometimes but the spacing is difficult).

(Also our techrolls are bad, but that only matters against meteors because we slide out of range if we tech anything else.)

Here's the thing, obviously this is only going from my own biased view but I don't have much else to go off from. Last week I took down 2 melee PR players and I lost to KJH in losers finals, I haven't even been going to tournaments a year but I still kept it close and took a game. Sure there's the him not knowing the matchup side of it but there's also me having miles of improvement to do. I don't think spacies are an unwinnable matchup in the slightest for squirtle, I think anyone who believes that is playing it wrong and not edgeguarding them correctly. You might be able to make an argument in saying that Fox and Falco are better characters than squirtle but even that can't be said this early. I honestly think Marth is muchhh harder, I posted the 3 streamed sets on the video sticky if you want to see where I'm going off from.
You're probably somewhat better than me, then, assuming your PR is roughly comparable to mine. I absolutely need to work on my space animal edgeguards.

That said, I wasn't complaining about those matchups, I was just putting things into context. I personally think Marth is Squirtle's hardest matchup, though I'm probably biased since I play Marth in Melee.

(Also Luigi is really hard BTW, you have to bubble a lot and you have to spend like a minute on every edgeguard--he can nair out of many typical Squirtle punishes. Thankfully his low traction works to our advantage here.)

Again, I'm not gonna quit Squirtle. I just need to understand and play to his strengths and weaknesses better.
 

dirtboy345

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
715
What do you think Squirtle needs? The only thing that comes to mind for me is a way to deal with CC, and I think we can fix that ourselves if we can develop more grab setups that work against it (shellsling water gun is what I'm toying with right now, I've gotten it to work sometimes but the spacing is difficult).

(Also our techrolls are bad, but that only matters against meteors because we slide out of range if we tech anything else.)



You're probably somewhat better than me, then, assuming your PR is roughly comparable to mine. I absolutely need to work on my space animal edgeguards.

That said, I wasn't complaining about those matchups, I was just putting things into context. I personally think Marth is Squirtle's hardest matchup, though I'm probably biased since I play Marth in Melee.

(Also Luigi is really hard BTW, you have to bubble a lot and you have to spend like a minute on every edgeguard--he can nair out of many typical Squirtle punishes. Thankfully his low traction works to our advantage here.)

Again, I'm not gonna quit Squirtle. I just need to understand and play to his strengths and weaknesses better.
Luigi is definitely a pain in the ass, half the time I opt to go Ice Climbers against him because of it. The biggest problem with him is he's one of the few characters that has movement close to squirtle and you need to respect his space more than he has to respect yours. Thankfully he's not a fast faller so he's easy to kill off the top. Also bubble is Squirtle's best anti cc imo, but you want to time it later so you can put a move out quicker since it has the short jump to it now.
 

Mr. Fabulous

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
56
Location
Miami, FL
I absolutely need to work on my space animal edgeguards.
Edgeguarding them is pretty easy. Ledgehop nair will at least trade with all of their options and semi-spikes.

Also, the more I play Squirt the more I think he has the tools to be a truly great character. Maybe not space animal good, but definitely a real competitor.
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
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Grieving No Longer
Edgeguarding them is pretty easy. Ledgehop nair will at least trade with all of their options and semi-spikes.
It's not that straightforward in my experience, unless you've knocked them very far away.

I could have sworn Illusion clanked with my nair last time I tried it BTW?
 

Zwarm

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
6,705
Location
Mount Prospect, IL
Squirtle is definitely high tier imo, he's super good, and fits my playstyle perfectly, so I'm gonna bring this character to new heights
 

PlateProp

Smash Master
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@cmart @ Zwarm Zwarm

What's the deal with falling onto the ledge sometimes if you turnaround on it? Is this a glitch or just some weird quirk
 

Jamwa

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
2,045
Location
cave plantation
you mean like a pc drop?

i suspect it'd be a really big input window for squirtle seeing as he slides so much
 
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Life

Smash Hero
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Jul 19, 2010
Messages
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You can slide backwards off ledges, but not forwards. You still have the momentum from whatever you did to get to the ledge though (minus friction, which Squirtle has relatively little of), so when you turn around you suddenly start moving again and slide offstage.

^If that's what a PC drop is, then yeah.
 

strobe

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Capital Region, NY
hey guys does AJ OoS come out as fast as shine? I've managed to do it in friendlies sometimes but im not sure how useful it actually is
 

Life

Smash Hero
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Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
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Grieving No Longer
hey guys does AJ OoS come out as fast as shine? I've managed to do it in friendlies sometimes but im not sure how useful it actually is
AJ hitbox is frame 6 IIRC, plus whatever Squirtle's jumpsquat is since we're doing it OOS (I think it's 4?). Fox shine OOS is like frame 4 including his jumpsquat IIRC--much faster.

That said, Withdraw OOS might be worth considering depending on what your shield's getting hit with.
 

PlateProp

Smash Master
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Mar 15, 2014
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Oh, alright. I'll look into it. I can't say that I remember it ever happening to me though tbh.
I looked into it a bit and it does seem like it may be a pc drop like that guy said before. Idk if squirtle's shell shenanigans just make them easier or somethin <_>
 

Vulvasaur

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
5
Location
Santa Barbara
So I've been maining squirtle since August and I feel like I have pretty good control of him but my neutral isnt too strong and I want to talk with the other squirtle mains out here >.> seeing PlateProp ask Soft Serve for his gmail to join the secret squirtle discussion tells me that I gotta post my gmail to get in on this. So here I am joshua.j.e.marin@gmail.com
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
So I've been maining squirtle since August and I feel like I have pretty good control of him but my neutral isnt too strong and I want to talk with the other squirtle mains out here >.> seeing PlateProp ask Soft Serve for his gmail to join the secret squirtle discussion tells me that I gotta post my gmail to get in on this. So here I am joshua.j.e.marin@gmail.com
I never got in on this either, despite having posted in the dedicated thread some time ago. What's up?
 
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