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Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

McNinja

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
518
Location
Florida
Well somebody has to make a general discussion thread.

Let's start off with Water Gun. Many people dislike this move and regard it as somewhat useless. I believe it is pretty useful.

Let's get this thread started with fun ways to use water gun.

Edit: oh and happy new year!

:phone:
 

cannedbread

Smash Lord
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Messages
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long island
water gun to me functions a lot like fox's lasers except, well, not as good. it's not a bad move to have on hand really but i think there might be some applications to it. maybe you can like reverse water gun cancel or something like sheik. even if it's not that great of a move his entire moveset besides that is great so it doesn't really matter all that much right?
 

McNinja

Smash Ace
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Aug 25, 2011
Messages
518
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Florida
water gun to me functions a lot like fox's lasers except, well, not as good. it's not a bad move to have on hand really but i think there might be some applications to it. maybe you can like reverse water gun cancel or something like sheik. even if it's not that great of a move his entire moveset besides that is great so it doesn't really matter all that much right?
I agree his other moves make up for it. I just wanted to see what everyone thought about it.

I like your analogy to Sheiks needles. I think the two moves are very similar.

I use it a lot as an edgeguard mixup to steal their second jump. Then maybe finish them with bubble or something idk.

@monk, bubble is so legit. Definately one of my favorite moves, if not my favorite.

:phone:
 

MonkUnit

Project M Back Roomer
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
6,075
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Eau Claire, Wisconsin
What do I do against bowser? I have a hard time trying to get in without lots of bubble and/or grab/SS grab. And bowser can crawl through the SS hitbox so I can't SS -> grab/usmash

:phone:
 

RFrizzle

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
637
Location
Eastern KS yo
If he is just sitting there crouching just running usmash lol. I'm having a hard time trying to think of what squirtle has that breaks that beefy cc.

:phone:
 

Translucent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
354
I think water gun should be only charged after you just have killed the oponnent for the most part. Its uses are few, but good against spraying against something that is coming in too quick. Also, squirting away grenades, bananas, gyros, ect. can sometimes be useful.

As an attack, it only does a few percent if it's hitting the oponnent at medium range. It only does around 10% if they are in your face and you spray them.
 

GaretHax

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
464
Water gun is a great jab-reset imo. Since it hits multiple times the opponent will usually have the getup bypassed. Also squirtle is my new main, his movement is just so sexy. Also, also anyone else notice that if you shellshift and dash in the new direction you can do a jc-boost pivot grab that covers 3/4 of dreamland's bottom platform?

:phone:
 

`dazrin

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Messages
2,213
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Watergun is good for stuffing approaches and projectiles. You can get some followups out of it as well, but their pretty mediocre by design.

What are you favorite combo starters? I really like sideb->uair, as it just sets up for a myriad of combos.
 

Translucent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
354
I like side-b into a lot of things, jab into stuff, bubble trip into more bubbles.:)

Nair follows up nicely sometimes, U-tilt combos into itself on spacies and other fast fallers into an upsmash, u-throw sometimes works... D-tilt is gewdd.
 

McNinja

Smash Ace
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Aug 25, 2011
Messages
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Up air up b is one of my favorites.

My all time favorite though is bubble to ****.

:phone:
 

BlueSuperSonic1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
451
Location
A place.
Water Gun seems pretty useful for edgeguarding, at least in my experience. Squirtle overall is a really fun character. Shellshifting and side-B, along with his good wavedash, allow a lot of mobility for the little guy. And, of course, the sunglasses taunt.
 

Chaos_Blasta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
288
Location
Mexico
Any and all Squirtle arguments can be ended with this post alone.

Also, i hate Neutral B. It's too slow and hurts too little to ever be useful from what i experienced.

Downsmash is oh so good for approaching. All of his tilts are jugglers or combo starters. I Keep SDing with Side B atleast twice every match, is this supposed to happen?
 

~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
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I mostly use Neutral B in small spurts to keep my opponent at bay and as an interruptor like in Brawl: kinda odd to hear people find it "clunky" to use. I don't think it's necessary to use it as a damaging "projectile": doesn't still push opponents away?

Bubble's slightly more difficult to use tactically though. Squirtle though kicks so much ***: Side B feels almost broken. And also using a real Koopa Model Texture for the recolor that is supposed to represent his Koopa-color.
 

Dubforce

Smash Sidius
Joined
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Messages
212
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Jacksonville - UNF
Water gun is a great jab-reset imo. Since it hits multiple times the opponent will usually have the getup bypassed. Also squirtle is my new main, his movement is just so sexy. Also, also anyone else notice that if you shellshift and dash in the new direction you can do a jc-boost pivot grab that covers 3/4 of dreamland's bottom platform?

:phone:
This has nothing to do with dash out of shellshift. What actually is happening is a momentum boost. During shellshift you are always building momentum, until the very last frame (or so it feels). If you JC grab out of the last frame of the shell shift then you will likely get the same effect you are describing.

You can also charge a smash the same way. Up/down smash dont slide, but side smash does.

Run > shellshift > left/right c-stick + hold z > release when ready. You will move the same distance you described earlier, sliding all the while.

Also guys, try NOT teching every once in a while. The slide you get on his rolling get up is TOO, GOOD.
 

Eaode

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,923
Location
Glen Cove/RIT, New York.
I think his water gun is near useless
- Stuffing approaches? Run away from them -> do something. Bettter than the lag on water gun to leave you potentially open.
- Edgeguarding? Bubble is wayyyy better and has bettter trajectory and KB.

One of my main problems with water gun is that it starts as a less than horizontal angle, meaning you have to spend time angling it before it will work. That or you use it in a full hop which leaves you REALLY open. It's a fun move to kind of just use I guess, but all of squirtle's other options are better imo.



On a general note, I love squirtle for his silppery awesomeness and WAVELANDING EVERYTHING. Seriously I think FD is his worst stage cuz he can't use the platforms as approach options (which he needs to be tricky with to get around his piss-poor range).
 

cannedbread

Smash Lord
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saying squirtle has piss-poor range is like saying luigi or icies or even fox or puff has piss-poor range

he doesn't have long legs or a sword but since he can move in so fast with such quick attacks i consider him to have good range
 

Dubforce

Smash Sidius
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Messages
212
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Jacksonville - UNF
I think his water gun is near useless
- Stuffing approaches? Run away from them -> do something. Bettter than the lag on water gun to leave you potentially open.
- Edgeguarding? Bubble is wayyyy better and has bettter trajectory and KB.

One of my main problems with water gun is that it starts as a less than horizontal angle, meaning you have to spend time angling it before it will work. That or you use it in a full hop which leaves you REALLY open. It's a fun move to kind of just use I guess, but all of squirtle's other options are better imo.
Watergun has 5 GREAT uses. You are about to get schooled son.
1: **** projectiles. I'm squirtle.
Watergun will stop (almost) any projectile. I say almost because there are still unreleased characters that I haven't tested this on.

2: Epic clinkz
Marth is going to fsmash? Watergun > fsmash. You win.

3: Momentum stop
Getting combod by shiek? DI out and make her go WTF by stopping you momentum with a b-reversed watergun. (Note this is just an alternative to other mixups like Side-b or down b)

4: Insanely safe long reach
Is a lucas player stalling you out and waiting for you to slip up? Watergun.

5: Aerial approach option.
Waveland on a platform > fall off > watergun > fair. Safe safity safe safe safe.



Implying watergun is useless....just experiment man. Its a very good move to have in your arsenal.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Watergun has 5 GREAT uses. You are about to get schooled son.
1: **** projectiles. I'm squirtle.
Watergun will stop (almost) any projectile. I say almost because there are still unreleased characters that I haven't tested this on.

2: Epic clinkz
Marth is going to fsmash? Watergun > fsmash. You win.

3: Momentum stop
Getting combod by shiek? DI out and make her go WTF by stopping you momentum with a b-reversed watergun. (Note this is just an alternative to other mixups like Side-b or down b)

4: Insanely safe long reach
Is a lucas player stalling you out and waiting for you to slip up? Watergun.

5: Aerial approach option.
Waveland on a platform > fall off > watergun > fair. Safe safity safe safe safe.



Implying watergun is useless....just experiment man. Its a very good move to have in your arsenal.

 

Dubforce

Smash Sidius
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
212
Location
Jacksonville - UNF
It involves momentum. You can jump out of SS whenever you want. However, the more momentum you have, the farther you will go. It seems SS builds momentum over time up until the last frame when squirtle is completely out. This means, ideally, you want to jump out of the last from of the SS and cancel that jump into a grab.

Note that you can slide the same distance as a JC grab, if not more, with a side-smash out of SS.
This is done by SS > C-stick left/right + hold Z to charge. Again, ideally, you want to start the smash's charging on the last frame of the SS so you have the max momentum possible. Remember, the momentum correlates directly with how far you slide out of the SS. If you dont want to slide much, JC grab or fsmash on the first frames of SS. If you DO JC grab or fsmash on the last frame, you will be moving most of the length of FD.

An earlier post in this thread that I made:

Water gun is a great jab-reset imo. Since it hits multiple times the opponent will usually have the getup bypassed. Also squirtle is my new main, his movement is just so sexy. Also, also anyone else notice that if you shellshift and dash in the new direction you can do a jc-boost pivot grab that covers 3/4 of dreamland's bottom platform?

:phone:
This has nothing to do with dash out of shellshift. What actually is happening is a momentum boost. During shellshift you are always building momentum, until the very last frame (or so it feels). If you JC grab out of the last frame of the shell shift then you will likely get the same effect you are describing.

You can also charge a smash the same way. Up/down smash dont slide, but side smash does.

Run > shellshift > left/right c-stick + hold z > release when ready. You will move the same distance you described earlier, sliding all the while.
 

BlueSuperSonic1

Smash Journeyman
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451
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A place.
Are you jumping out of side-B or a shellshift? A shellshift is when Squirtle turns around while running. You can jump out of it freely; the shell doesn't jump with you.
 

Translucent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
354
Oh **** I thought we were talking about Side-B... Thanks guys for clearing it up.
 

JayMan-X

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
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123
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Cleveland, OH
Yeah side B is withdraw. Shellshifting is squirtle's turnaround animation after running.
You can only jump out of shellshifts
 

Dubforce

Smash Sidius
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Messages
212
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Jacksonville - UNF
Thanks Jay.

Translucent I would recommend getting comfortable with shellshifting and then re-reading my posts from earlier, as they are bound to help. Very good techniques to get down. His SS > JC grab and SS > fsmash are way too cool for skewl.
 

Eaode

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Glen Cove/RIT, New York.
Watergun has 5 GREAT uses. You are about to get schooled son.
1: **** projectiles. I'm squirtle.
Watergun will stop (almost) any projectile. I say almost because there are still unreleased characters that I haven't tested this on.

2: Epic clinkz
Marth is going to fsmash? Watergun > fsmash. You win.

3: Momentum stop
Getting combod by shiek? DI out and make her go WTF by stopping you momentum with a b-reversed watergun. (Note this is just an alternative to other mixups like Side-b or down b)

4: Insanely safe long reach
Is a lucas player stalling you out and waiting for you to slip up? Watergun.

5: Aerial approach option.
Waveland on a platform > fall off > watergun > fair. Safe safity safe safe safe.



Implying watergun is useless....just experiment man. Its a very good move to have in your arsenal.
1) if you have the time to watergun a projectile you can just move/approach instead

2) if you have time to watergun to clink you could have moved and been able to punish better

3) escape combos? You'll set yourself up for another one in the water gun lag

4) ranged harrass I'll definitely give to you. Squirtle doesn't have other mid/long range options. +1

5) all his other approaches are faster than WG, I'll give you the "safe" part but the followups out of WG are dubious at best IMO, and the area you can hit with is less than ideal and starts at a bad angle.

Please don't confuse the WG rant with a squirtle rant. I love playing squirtle and I think he's really good but almost all the possible uses for WG are better suited to other moves imho
 

Translucent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
354
So I think that I've just gotten the
SS>jc grab and it is amazing. He slides so far... Go squirtle!

:phone:
 

Chaos_Blasta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
288
Location
Mexico
If you shell shift and very quickly hold the stock in the opposite direction that you're headed at, (You are essentially doing a half circle turn on the stick) Squirtle stops in his shell for approximatedly a second..Could be useful for mindgames, perhaps? or just a neat thing to do?
 

Translucent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
354
Yeah, I've had a few times where squirtle stops in his shell for half a second... Weird

:phone:
 

Jonny Westside

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If you shell shift and very quickly hold the stock in the opposite direction that you're headed at, (You are essentially doing a half circle turn on the stick) Squirtle stops in his shell for approximatedly a second..Could be useful for mindgames, perhaps? or just a neat thing to do?
If you hold shield during that stall he'll slide with it.
 

dettadeus

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
1,954
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drowning in pixels
It's called Shell Stalling, and is an old Brawl AT.

You don't even have to hold in the opposite direction, just releasing the control stick works as well.

If you're running, holding A and then flick the Cstick in the opposite direction you're holding, you'll shell-stall for the longest possible time (nearly 2 seconds).

When you come out of a shell stall you're typically in your standing state so you can do whatever out of it while sliding somewhat.
 
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