Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[dirtboy345]

I can do hydrocrawls like 50% of them time traveling right and 0% of the time travelling left

I don't think there's an actual difference, but people usually are better with certain directions more than others, like moonwalking

 

[Player -0]

Hry guys,I'm new to Squirtle.Can you all educate me on some of the Squirt's unique techs?
These names make me draw a blank.

Wait. Are you saying that this* doesn't make complete sense?

*

hydro-dashed Dad-planing

 

[SpiderMad]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2oknde/who_do_you_guys_think_is_the_best_at_each/
"It's kind of awkward to comment on where I stand, but I'll try and avoid coming off as egotistical.

I honestly believe that I have the best tech skill of any squirtle that I have seen or played, and I make a point to look at anyone who puts up a video."

Record this:
Do SH Fair WL three times in a row with Squirtle
SH Fair Dair (hitbox out) with Lucario two times in a row
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=248
SH Bair DJ Nair Bair once with Ike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcTZ8l7gjIQ&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A

 

[~Dad~]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2oknde/who_do_you_guys_think_is_the_best_at_each/
"It's kind of awkward to comment on where I stand, but I'll try and avoid coming off as egotistical.

I honestly believe that I have the best tech skill of any squirtle that I have seen or played, and I make a point to look at anyone who puts up a video."

Record this:
Do SH Fair WL three times in a row with Squirtle
SH Fair Dair (hitbox out) with Lucario two times in a row
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=248
SH Bair DJ Nair Bair once with Ike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcTZ8l7gjIQ&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A

lmao spidermad I love you

 

[Daftatt]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2oknde/who_do_you_guys_think_is_the_best_at_each/
"It's kind of awkward to comment on where I stand, but I'll try and avoid coming off as egotistical.

I honestly believe that I have the best tech skill of any squirtle that I have seen or played, and I make a point to look at anyone who puts up a video."

Record this:
Do SH Fair WL three times in a row with Squirtle
SH Fair Dair (hitbox out) with Lucario two times in a row
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=248
SH Bair DJ Nair Bair once with Ike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcTZ8l7gjIQ&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A

Uhhh, are you under the impression that any of those are hard? And I'm not trying to be cheeky, how are those even considered tech skill?

Also, SH Fair WL literally doesn't work in 3.5. You can run it frame by frame in debug and squirtle's short hop doesn't last long enough. Although I will say in 3.0 it was very easy to do.

On another note, has anyone been incorporating moonwalk into their dashdance with squirtle? It's pretty cool as a mixup out of quick shift and if you pivot immediately after I've been able to get some tricky grabs on people not expecting squirtle to zip towards them at the last second.

 

[SpiderMad]

Uhhh, are you under the impression that any of those are hard? And I'm not trying to be cheeky, how are those even considered tech skill?

Also, SH Fair WL literally doesn't work in 3.5. You can run it frame by frame in debug and squirtle's short hop doesn't last long enough. Although I will say in 3.0 it was very easy to do.

You have failed the test miserably, farther than my expectations

Enough so to even fail to properly use FA.

Well I don't even know where to start now. First question for you to answer, is it possible to SH Fair DJ with Squirtle in 3.5?

 

[Daftatt]

You have failed the test miserably, farther than my expectations

Enough so to even fail to properly use FA.

Well I don't even know where to start now. First question for you to answer, is it possible to SH Fair DJ with Squirtle in 3.5?

Oh wow, sorry I failed you (commence flogging pls). And as far as I know it actually is impossible to SH Fair DJ, the IASA is too late... So wait... how did I fail again?

Is the secret to be using 3.02? Is that what the kids are calling tech skill these days?

 

[SpiderMad]

Oh wow, sorry I failed you (commence flogging pls). And as far as I know it actually is impossible to SH Fair DJ, the IASA is too late... So wait... how did I fail again?

Is the secret to be using 3.02? Is that what the kids are calling tech skill these days?

It's all okay so long as we're going through the path of finding out and fixing why on either end. Do you have access to the game to try and Frame advance the technique again? Or are you pretty certain your testing was accurately showing it as impossible in 3.5 to the best of your ability?

 

[Daftatt]

It's all okay so long as we're going through the path of finding out and fixing why. Do you have access to the game to try and Frame advance the technique again? Or are you pretty certain your testing was accurately showing it as impossible in 3.5?

That's how I've been testing it yes. I'm pretty sure it's no longer a thing sadly.

However, and credit for teaching me this goes to crummie from WC canada, due to quickcling (or whatever it's called) being added to squirtle's withdraw, there is a invincibility stall for squirtle now.

You get 37 invulnerability frames after grabbing ledge, and I was able to regrab in about 28 frames using this technique (most of which are the walljump animation).

Once you grab ledge, hit to drop, and immediately hit (towards the ledge) to wallcling, then immediately (away from ledge) to walljump, then (and I'm not sure where the window is here) short-withdraw back towards the ledge to regrab. Hooray! Of course it only works 5 times before you lose invincibility.

EDIT: make sure that you don't withdraw as soon as possible out of walljump or you'll just go onto the stage.

Before I dub this the "crummie stall" lol, anybody already explained this and I just missed it?

 

[dirtboy345]

Before I dub this the "crummie stall" lol, anybody already explained this and I just missed it?

I haven't seen this posted before, but in the spirit of other squirtle tech names I think it might have to be called the shellectric stall sling of doom.

 

[Daftatt]

I haven't seen this posted before, but in the spirit of other squirtle tech names I think it might have to be called the shellectric stall sling of doom.

yeah, but I was thinking more along the lines of shino stall.

 

[SpiderMad]

That's how I've been testing it yes. I'm pretty sure it's no longer a thing sadly.

Alright next question, are you able to stream your game at all?

 

[Daftatt]

Alright next question, are you able to stream your game at all?

For all intents and purposes no I am not able to stream, just test it yourself to confirm.

 

[SpiderMad]

For all intents and purposes no I am not able to stream, just test it yourself to confirm.

On my end yes I have confirmed it works, how would you like me to show you the results?

If you do have a way to stream but are just unwilling, I would advise going with that; as I can pinpoint where you're going wrong. I already have two guesses as to why.

 

[Badge]

SH FAir->WL also works on my setups, you just have to be frame perfect. (in Debug Mode: Do the FAir-input on the 4th frame of the SH and the WL-input two frames before landing again.) Also:

anybody already explained this and I just missed it?

blub

Something I noticed while practicing ledge stuff:

Squirtle can refresh ledge intangibility before losing it by instant-walljumping* from the ledge and withdrawing back onto it (cancelling the WD) on all stages in the bottom two rows except for BF, YS, SV and Lylat. On BF/YS he can do almost the same, but with at least 1 frame of not being intangible (because the more ideal method for instant-walljumps doesn't work.)

Also walljumping from the ledge can be used to come back onto the stage with special lower than via a ledge-hop or -jump. Could be a useful mixup. Or of course for edgeguards, but that's the obvious usage.

*Methods for instant-walljumps (or whatever they're called, the Doraki/Scar-jump terminology is confusing):
1. While on the ledge press away from the stage on the C-Stick, then instantly towards on the Control-Stick and jump. Doesn't use the double jump, but also doesn't work on BF & YS. Goes slightly lower than the other method, which is better for regrabbing the ledge via WD, but makes getting onto the stage harder.
2. Press away from the ledge on the Control-Stick and one frame later jump while holding away. Uses the double jump, but works on BF/YS.
Both don't work on SV and Lylat.

Edit: Add YS to BF's category, I must have somehow missed it before.

 

[SpiderMad]

Yes, my guess was in debug menu he inputted the Fair not on the 1st airborne frame but the 2nd. And as to why he couldn't get it non-FA, he's possibly using C-stick for the Fair. Frame perfect aerials are easy to get using A.

 

[Daftatt]

Yes, my guess was in debug menu he inputted the Fair not on the 1st airborne frame but the 2nd. And as to why he couldn't get it non-FA, he's possibly using C-stick for the Fair. Frame perfect aerials are easy to get using A.

Huh, my fair animation begins the frame after jump squat ends. This definitely needs to be a gfy if it's possible.

 

[SpiderMad]

Huh, my fair animation begins the frame after jump squat ends. This definitely needs to be a gfy if it's possible.

It's okay to be as nontechnical as your Squirtle brethen, as I have to prove you guys and Ike players things various times (see as one of many examples http://smashboards.com/threads/squirtle-squad-general-disc.331682/page-11#post-15602418 ); but now it's getting a little sloppy when you're messing it up to the point of even debug menu too on the first and easiest of the challenges and telling me I'm using 3.02

Here

It's just the lack of people's tech skill in the early aerial/frame linking department makes the changes to characters like Squirtle's gravity and SH height throughout the versions get unnoticed to the full extent of how his early/double aerials change. Beyond the point to even know they exist, but then effectively use them in game.

Here's his 2.5? Incarnate, he's lost quite a bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_29xQKspI

Moving on, are you able to perform the technique yet in-game? I'll let you slide by getting it just twice in a row (SH Bair WL); then we'll move onto Lucario's. Who you deemed their challenges to be jokingly easy. Once you get further down the line in challenges I can teach you much more.

Also @NeonApophis You were suppose to master this double blaster on Yoshi's a month ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBDctEu8Hg&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A#t=14 Are you able to get it down?

 

[Daftatt]

woo! I finally did it! damn that is super tight timing now. Any tips for having fair immediately come out of short hop? I honestly don't use SH fair in neutral at all lol, I usually would instead crossup with shorthop slingjump, or actually I would just use SHFFL bair since it's hitbox is better in most situations.

BTW, I think it's interesting you judge tech skill based on this specific tech, I literally never hear about it. Not saying it isn't good, just that I have never considered it.

 

[SpiderMad]

woo! I finally did it! damn that is super tight timing now. Any tips for having fair immediately come out of short hop? I honestly don't use SH fair in neutral at all lol, I usually would instead crossup with shorthop slingjump, or actually I would just use SHFFL bair since it's hitbox is better in most situations.

In my post I linked this example, http://smashboards.com/threads/squirtle-squad-general-disc.331682/page-11#post-15602418
where the next post after it http://smashboards.com/threads/squirtle-squad-general-disc.331682/page-11#post-15603041

As well as here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=40

I can also give you some other tips, but those must await you farther down the path of self learning

Didn't you have a capture card? or otherwise some camera to point at the TV? Recording yourself is going to be necessary to move on in the challenges

 

[Daftatt]

In my post I linked this example, http://smashboards.com/threads/squirtle-squad-general-disc.331682/page-11#post-15602418
where the next post after it http://smashboards.com/threads/squirtle-squad-general-disc.331682/page-11#post-15603041

As well as here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=40

Didn't you have a capture card? or otherwise some camera to point at the TV? Recording yourself is going to be necessary to move on in the challenges

yeah I'll definitely practice this, thanks...

Does daft still think he has the best squirtle tech skill? Yes

 

[SpiderMad]

yeah I'll definitely practice this, thanks...

Does daft still think he has the best squirtle tech skill? Yes

You called the other challenges easy, you're gonna have to do them; you'll otherwise be unenlightened to the other various things down the line I have in-store to teach you

Do you have your capture card? You need to record yourself doing the SH Fair WL twice in a row

 

[Daftatt]

Do you have your capture card? You need to record yourself doing the SH Fair WL twice in a row

I really don't though

But seriously you're right in that this does allow for even crazier tech skill, now I can max speed shorthop slinjump bair into waveland. Now THAT is going to be nuts. Or even low percentage D-throw, short hop slingjump Fair, drift control stop, waveland followup OMG.

I've always focused my tech skill on having squirtle move faster, this is gonna be next level.

 

[SpiderMad]

I really don't though

But seriously you're right in that this does allow for even crazier tech skill, now I can max speed shorthop slinjump bair into waveland. Now THAT is going to be nuts. Or even low percentage D-throw, short hop slingjump Fair, drift control stop, waveland followup OMG.

No you're still mis-informed from you being unable to have self-knowledge on what you can and can't perform; and have gone the route to thinking impossible things exist that don't just from reading information incorrectly. SH Bair WL doesn't exist anymore, it's one of the many things I said you guys missed on being able to utilize when it did exist. And you all go on to continue to not notice when things do and don't exist through version changes beyond a 1 to 2 or even sometimes 3 frame window, until you go through the early aerial training path.

You could even load up that old PM version where SH Bair WL did exist and still not be able to perform/utilize it at all (which I found to be slightly harder than SH Fair WL in the current version, SH Fair WL might be a 2 frame tight window). Zwarm was another person who didn't think it existed, and spent a half hour on stream trying it until I think he got it once then gave up far too early.

It's the same reason people don't understand why those two other challenges (the Lucario and Ike, especially the Ike) are very high level. And why these videos just look like standard stuff until you would otherwise try doing them and find it near impossible when you're not knowledged on early aerial training.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BixZR3-YiMw

 

[Daftatt]

SH Bair WL doesn't exist anymore

Yeah after I posted that I tested it, sad.

You actually are making good points... but maybe chill out on the derision now.

 

[SpiderMad]

Yeah after I posted that I tested it, sad.

You actually are making good points... but I don't think I like you.

This is important info, as hundreds of things can exist in a game but be easily looked over and changed to not exist by accident when people don't know of them existing and their uses (for for themselves rather than solely read it) because of difficulty/not knowing how to get good at them especially when they think they're technically proficient already. Otherwise I'd be talking more about my dinosaur trunk t-rex cat avatar.

I thought you had a capture card when you posted matches with Shadic? And these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqCtllOID9Q&

You actually are making good points... but maybe chill out on the derision now.

Changing it to derision now aey? I'm never super serious about anything but I'm trying to get you guys to put adequate effort into stuff after you called yourself out to be ready to be challenged on your tech, and lying or something about having not having capture cards or a camera to point at the TV. You should be looking forward to being pushed further, I would be blown away by someone showing me stuff I thought was impossible and was ready to show me more.

 

[Daftatt]

Changing it to derision now aey? I'm never super serious about anything but I'm trying to get you guys to put adequate effort into stuff after you called yourself out to be ready to be challenged on your tech, and lying or something about having not having capture cards or a camera to point at the TV.

Yeah, once I actually read "I don't like you" I realized that was super mean and untrue, also not actually saying what I was trying to get across. I apologize that you saw it before I changed it, I don't not like you

I really do have a capture card, it's a nice one, however my laptop I used to capture with broke, I was using my desktop but I upgraded to windows 8 and don't have the driver for the Roxio game capture installed anymore. So I need to set everything back up and am not particularly interested in proving anything to you right now. SOOOOOO.... I'll just go ahead and.

Daftatt was unequivocally wrong about the following, and make no mistake, he is humbled and ashamed at his transgressions.

- SH WL Fair is VERY VERY hard to do consistently, props to spider mad for having tech skill I didn't even know existed.

- SH WL Fair is totally possible in debug, I was not doing it correctly, If you try and input jump too early in debug it won't let you do it later. Also debug doesn't let you use C-stick to drop from ledge, or let you drop from ledge at all in frame advanced, which has nothing to do with this apology but I digress.

- SH WL Bair is no longer possible in 3.5

- Saying you "don't like" someone is mean and inappropriate for the boards, I regret ever writing it.

truce?

 

[dirtboy345]

So uhh not to disrupt any arguments here but is there any trick to hydrocrawling? I can hydro pivot the majority of the time I try it but I can't even get one crawl in and I think it's because I don't know how to do it really.

 

[Daftatt]

So uhh not to disrupt any arguments here but is there any trick to hydrocrawling? I can hydro pivot the majority of the time I try it but I can't even get one crawl in and I think it's because I don't know how to do it really.

@ JCOnyx halp

I personally gave up on hydrocrawl long ago, once I switched controllers (to the new nintendo white) I was never able to do it consistently again. I just wavedash into D-smash nowadays, but thankfully the wavedash got better so it's kind of almost as good (but not as swagger)

 

[airpirate545]

As someone wanting to try Squirtle out in 3.5, what are his reliable kill moves/combos? I can rack up damage alright, but the only reliable kills I can get are really high percentage bairs and d-throws. I'm really struggling comboing into usmash.

 

[JCOnyx]

As someone wanting to try Squirtle out in 3.5, what are his reliable kill moves/combos? I can rack up damage alright, but the only reliable kills I can get are really high percentage bairs and d-throws. I'm really struggling comboing into usmash.

There are very few, if any, ways to actually combo into UpSmash. SS to UpSmash works occasionally but it's really just a gimmick at best (as is most of Squirtle in the first place lol). I find Crawl Attack into UpSmash works more often and that is even less reliable. At low percents against fast fallers, a falling UpAir to UpSmash can work but you aren't going to be killing with it anytime soon.

Generally in 3.5 your gameplan is to either kill off the top with UpB/AquaJet or gimp offstage with Bair/Fair/Nair. Against certain floaty character that like to stay airborne (for instance Peach), UpSmash can come in handy a lot more often but should still be used sparingly.

@ JCOnyx halp

I personally gave up on hydrocrawl long ago, once I switched controllers (to the new nintendo white) I was never able to do it consistently again. I just wavedash into D-smash nowadays, but thankfully the wavedash got better so it's kind of almost as good (but not as swagger)

There is no easy way to do a hydrocrawl, and to be honest, the precision required very well may vary from controller to controller. I unfortunately am just like Jamwa and can only reliably hydrocrawl to the right (and hydroplane reversal to the left), except I feel that I can execute these about 90% of the time. I recommend you experiment with ledge running, because that is the exact angle you need to have the stick at when attempting to hydrowcrawl.

Here is a quick video in case somebody here doesn't know what ledge running is. @ SpiderMad used to have a PM video showcasing it but I couldn't find it for some reason so here is a Brawl video showcasing it.

 

[SpiderMad]

 

[JCOnyx]

Thanks, I was looking for the second video that you posted. Completely forgot it was a sub video.

And as you can see, getting that input isn't easy, as he failed to even start his run the first time on both instances.

 

[Player -0]

What about late hit of SS Nair -> Up Smash?

I'm not sure if I'm going to continue to focus my Link as a main anymore, I liked his old Nair too much and some of his nerfs kind of make me cringe. He'll probably be apart of the pack of characters now. I'll probably main my one true love the random button now but I'll probably practice Squirtle a bit more so when I go random button I can win at life.

 

[Jamwa]

@ JCOnyx i believe ledge running was only possible for a few characters (ness, lucas and fox i believe) correct me if im wrong, probs different in p:m

also lmao this ****ing SH WL 'discussion'

 

[SpiderMad]

@ JCOnyx i believe ledge running was only possible for a few characters (ness, lucas and fox i believe) correct me if im wrong, probs different in p:m

also lmao this ****ing SH WL 'discussion'

All can do it in PM and Brawl and now Smash 4 I believe, as in my two videos it shows MK and Falco (and then at the end of Breaking The Game look at PS2 on the two end sides with Sonic). This occurs because they're in run but a slow speed run (similar to how walk has different speeds), it exists in Melee but it still allows you to fall off the ledge from it.

I have to go through this discussion a lot when people don't believe things (though I didn't expect someone with Debug menu now to run into problems), I knew from the start how'd it go lol. He gave up on the path though as did many others =(
http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2kbyx3/any_quirky_recovery_techs_i_may_not_know_about/clju9x6

You're all more than welcome to try the two others challenges
" SH Fair Dair (hitbox out) with Lucario two times in a row
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLklmmYyNk#t=248
SH Bair DJ Nair Bair once with Ike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcTZ8l7gjIQ&list=UUC_duOivBOekU6LS3_8w25A "

 

[Daftatt]

You guys aren't "under the impression that any of these are hard?" are you?

 

[SpiderMad]

I will hold off the discussionment for now until you get your recording equipment in order. Maybe come up with some tech challenge not related to early aerials I can try that you can do. I do have older other ones not related http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v3-5.339825/page-803#post-17098767, but like you mentioned nobody knows (and still doesn't) about the early aerial area and it's actually very related to lots of other things most people are unaware of (such as frame strict ledge options). And there's more reasons I can't reveal about why you guys need to attempt to get good at early aerials.

 

[Daftatt]

It is finally confirmed, squirtle has the longest short hop in the game, as far as horizontal distance covered from first frame out of jump squat to first frame of landing.

A frame perfect short hop slingjump travels exactly 6 markers in 33 frames on the training stage. Which is amazing considering how low his short hop is now.

Second is capt falcon who travels 5.75 marks in 33 frames.

This also means squirtle has the fastest moving jump in the game at .182 marks/frame, where as cap has a short hop speed of .174 marks/frame.

For some more perspective, fox travels 3.33 marks in his shorthop which from first aerial frame to first landing takes 24 frames, giving his lateral speed at .139 marks per frame. Squirtle's normal shorthop goes 4 marks in 33 frames, which give it a speed of .12 marks/frame, or 65% the speed of a perfect short hop slingjump.

Debug mode is amazing.

 

[Player -0]

What about moonwalk Captain? Also Sonic moonwalks.