Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Player -0]

Removal of pivot hitboxes + armor kind of hurts a safe kill setup for Squirtle (sad about this) and then WD got hit super hard, I feel like I'll only really use it as a surprise attack or a combo extender, which I can see why it was changed kind of.

I'd almost like to see Aquajet not send you into special fall since it almost seems like Wolf's Side B now.

It seems like you'll have to play a more fundamental Squirtle now and you won't be able to win tournaments with just Side B anymore.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

It seems like you'll have to play a more fundamental Squirtle now and you won't be able to win tournaments with just Side B anymore.

Who the **** was winning tournaments with just withdraw?

 

[Player -0]

I don't remember who but someone on the boards did lol.

 

[MrHazuki]

I've based my style on Withdraw and won a few tournaments.

 

[Zwarm]

Heaven forbid you need to actually have fundamentals with a character now.

 

[dirtboy345]

Heaven forbid you need to actually have fundamentals with a character now.

Most sensible people aren't complaining about just withdraw though, that's what's bothering me the most is you can't say he's worse without hearing "oh it's because you just spammed withdraw and didn't play well" I'm more bothered by fsmash momentum (out of shell shift) and wall jumping (out of wall clinging) more than anything

 

[Daftatt]

The new fox AI is really fun to practice against. He's actually kind of good (onstage) and reminds me of a few washington fox mains.

 

[Zwarm]

Most sensible people aren't complaining about just withdraw though, that's what's bothering me the most is you can't say he's worse without hearing "oh it's because you just spammed withdraw and didn't play well" I'm more bothered by fsmash momentum (out of shell shift) and wall jumping (out of wall clinging) more than anything

Fsmash momentum was a niche thing, and while I'm sad to see it go, I like the overall physics changes that came about because of it being lost. Wall cling jump was a glitch, and was removed for everyone that had a cling, not just Squirtle.

 

[Daftatt]

Wall cling jump was a glitch, and was removed for everyone that had a cling, not just Squirtle.

The thing is squirtle's walljump is basically useless, it's near totally horizontal. Have you guys considered giving squirtle a walljump that actually makes him jump up? You know, like all the other characters' walljumps.

 

[MrHazuki]

Don't try to claim the word "sensible". I'd say that sensible people are the ones who are complaining about the huge nerf that is the removal of Withdraw.

 

[Jamwa]

Don't try to claim the word "sensible". I'd say that sensible people are the ones who are complaining about the huge nerf that is the removal of Withdraw.

nah pls go >>>

 

[dirtboy345]

Fsmash momentum was a niche thing, and while I'm sad to see it go, I like the overall physics changes that came about because of it being lost. Wall cling jump was a glitch, and was removed for everyone that had a cling, not just Squirtle.

I don't see what makes it a glitch considering you can carry momentum from usmash and dsmash still... It wasn't even the most useful thing but it was really fun. Also yeah if Squirtle had a real wall jump than the cling change would be fine. Squirtle used to benefit only slightly from walls now he barley benefits at all

 

[PlateProp]

I don't see what makes it a glitch considering you can carry momentum from usmash and dsmash still... It wasn't even the most useful thing but it was really fun. Also yeah if Squirtle had a real wall jump than the cling change would be fine. Squirtle used to benefit only slightly from walls now he barley benefits at all

He's talking about how fsmash flung you farther than it should have, not hydroplanes

 

[dirtboy345]

He's talking about how fsmash flung you farther than it should have, not hydroplanes

Yeah, I'm aware, the words for squirtle tech can be confusing, all I'm saying is that you can use the momentum of shell shift for usmash and dsmash, used to be able to do the same with fsmash which was arguably much farther of a distance but much more useless

 

[MrAzureKun]

Don't try to claim the word "sensible". I'd say that sensible people are the ones who are complaining about the huge nerf that is the removal of Withdraw.

Get over it bud, I'm pretty sure the half of us have.

I don't see what makes it a glitch considering you can carry momentum from usmash and dsmash still... It wasn't even the most useful thing but it was really fun. Also yeah if Squirtle had a real wall jump than the cling change would be fine. Squirtle used to benefit only slightly from walls now he barley benefits at all

He said walljumping out of cling was a glitch. Not that Hydroplane [reverse] forward smash was a glitch.
I won't lie, I really want this to come back but if the new physics don't allow it so be it. The game plays like a dream now even more than it did before.

 

[Zwarm]

Hydroplane forward smash is still a thing, you just don't get endless amounts of momentum now, I never said it was a glitch, it was more of a feature due to the physics engine.

 

[dirtboy345]

Hydroplane forward smash is still a thing, you just don't get endless amounts of momentum now, I never said it was a glitch, it was more of a feature due to the physics engine.

The momentum was the only thing giving it any merit though, fsmash is only really a good killing move if you plan on armoring through an attack, also the momentum could be used on a platform, hold R and fly into a bair nair etc

 

[Zwarm]

You get the same boost as doing a RAR by doing that, and there's less chance of you suiciding doing it that way.

And like I said, you can still hydroplane fsmash, we didn't get rid of that.

 

[~Dad~]

Hydroplane fsmash (forward facing) is still good, you just can't cross an entire stage with it.

It was really cool before, but let's be honest, this was pretty dumb. http://gfycat.com/ZealousSatisfiedAmphibian


(I miss it so much though ;_; )

 

[LiL.Will]

So I never played squirtle at all in brawl,pm 3.0, or the earlier versions. Before I dive into all these squritle threads for info would anyone mind giving me a general synopsis on him?

Is he even good or am I fooling myself with his amazing movement and mixup potential?

 

[~Dad~]

So I never played squirtle at all in brawl,pm 3.0, or the earlier versions. Before I dive into all these squritle threads for info would anyone mind giving me a general synopsis on him?

Is he even good or am I fooling myself with his amazing movement and mixup potential?

Yo Will! It's Don! You should totally hit up Zeroic at the Smash house, he can give you a crash course on the Squirtman.

 

[LiL.Will]

Yo Will! It's Don! You should totally hit up Zeroic at the Smash house, he can give you a crash course on the Squirtman.

Lol alright will do

 

[MrAzureKun]

So I never played squirtle at all in brawl,pm 3.0, or the earlier versions. Before I dive into all these squritle threads for info would anyone mind giving me a general synopsis on him?

Is he even good or am I fooling myself with his amazing movement and mixup potential?

He's great, but only if you can make him great.
His kit has enough low knock back to keep combos going but you'll have to learn how to follow up.
His tech makes him more than interesting to play not to mention unique. I don't regret taking so much time to try and learn these techs in all honesty. And I'm not even good yet.

I'm not sure if now was a great time to dive into these threads since there's a bit of a civil war going on but if you can learn the movement you're pretty set. You just need to be able to apply it naturally in game.

Hope this helps :D

 

[LiL.Will]

He's great, but only if you can make him great.
His kit has enough low knock back to keep combos going but you'll have to learn how to follow up.
His tech makes him more than interesting to play not to mention unique. I don't regret taking so much time to try and learn these techs in all honesty. And I'm not even good yet.

I'm not sure if now was a great time to dive into these threads since there's a bit of a civil war going on but if you can learn the movement you're pretty set. You just need to be able to apply it naturally in game.

Hope this helps :D

It sort of helped but thank you for replying.
What i mean to ask is what are his approach options,general playstyle,and i know his movement is great but since its 3.5 what did he keep from 3.0 that i should know about?

 

[MrAzureKun]

It sort of helped but thank you for replying.
What i mean to ask is what are his approach options,general playstyle,and i know his movement is great but since its 3.5 what did he keep from 3.0 that i should know about?

In terms of movement he didn't really lose much.
You can't rely so much on withdraw but it was a bad habit to begin with.
Movement was actually improved with the aerial move speed buff and short hop buff which from what I've heard helped his wave dash.
Shell shifting is still a thing as much as ever so the movement never really left.

Squirtle was nerfed sure, but it was only to get rid of anything that made playing against him too much of a chore.
That being said I'm nowhere near competitive level of play. This is all just observations and paraphrases really.

Still hope I helped but I would ask other people with more experience than myself.
For all I know I might be a detriment to you QnQ

 

[cmart]

I don't see what makes it a glitch considering you can carry momentum from usmash and dsmash still... It wasn't even the most useful thing but it was really fun. Also yeah if Squirtle had a real wall jump than the cling change would be fine. Squirtle used to benefit only slightly from walls now he barley benefits at all

Actually it was legitimately glitched. Moves which have momentum in the animation cut off other momentum. It's possible to fix this by storing momentum in a variable and reapplying it within the move...which I did except I made a few code errors and we ended up shipping with glitched hydroplanes on fsmash. The momentum it receives during hydroplaning in 3.5 is actually correct.

 

[PlateProp]

Actually it was legitimately glitched. Moves which have momentum in the animation cut off other momentum. It's possible to fix this by storing momentum in a variable and reapplying it within the move...which I did except I made a few code errors and we ended up shipping with glitched hydroplanes on fsmash. The momentum it receives during hydroplaning in 3.5 is actually correct.

Incorrect momentum or riot

 

[coopreme]

So after a couple days of play i'm feeling that squirtle (possibly just in relation to the rest of the cast) is much better in 3.5

A lot of folks seem to not like the withdrawal being changed... I'm going to say you a piece of **** if you spammed it, but I will say I'd self destructed more in 3.02 than 3.5 by far. I mainly use the withdrawal for a high side recovery mixup and the occasional tech chase. Withdrawl not being able to change directions sucks, but since i'm killing my self less and winning more games I can't complain. /amish.

Squirt's recovery feels like a buff to me mainly because other's are now so bad. Waterfall seems to flow nicer and I like the quicker startup. I've only landed a couple good aquajets (once i figured it out), and I just wish is was more of a rest, judgement 9, or luigi up b power move. It's awesome to land, but the reward doesn't feel as nice as a successful rest or 9-hammer.

His wavedash feels infinitely better and edge guarding with bubble has me wrecking that hovering a$$hat, Ganon, OoT style.

Overall I think the combo game for squirtle is at an all time high, and while I miss the misleading suction of d-smash and some silly momentum, his short hops and general placement in the cast has massively risen. Here's to the next patch and more squirtle kill moves!


***edit*** forgot to cry about one thing...either kill his wall cling, or give him a proper wall jump! aside from that, excellent work pmdt. may you reign a thousand years.

 

[PlateProp]

@ cmart Why was the clapping noise when Squirtle wavedashes removed?

How am I supposed to style on people and drop sick clapping beats at the same time now q`q

 

[coopreme]

@ cmart Why was the clapping noise when Squirtle wavedashes removed?

How am I supposed to style on people and drop sick clapping beats at the same time now q`q

excellent question. everyone knows there are two things that make squirtle awesome: suglasses and makin it clap.

**edit** can we sub the clap with an audible but low volume "squirt"

 

[~Dad~]

excellent question. everyone knows there are two things that make squirtle awesome: suglasses and makin it clap.

**edit** can we sub the clap with an audible but low volume "squirt"

squirt squirt squirt squirt SQUIRT SQUIRT SQUIRT SQUIRT

 

[JayTheUnseen]

The new fox AI is really fun to practice against. He's actually kind of good (onstage) and reminds me of a few washington fox mains.

Yeah,the guy who is responsible for AI said it was based off pros.

Recently tried out Squirtle,and boy he's fun.Can anybody give me some general advice on using him?

 

[coopreme]

squirt squirt squirt squirt SQUIRT SQUIRT SQUIRT SQUIRT

So i think that is unanimous yes for a squirt clip while WD.

 

[Life]

Yesterday I played Squirtle and Charizard at a 22-man local.

After choking SUPER hard and losing my first round, I clawed-and-withdrawed my way all the way back to Grand Finals, where I lost 2-3 playing Zard versus a Sheik I've always lost to anyway.

I've also started utterly dismantling a different Sheik that I used to go even with as Pit and lose to as Squirtle last patch.

Squirtle's fine.

(For the curious, Zard is also fine. Game 3 of Loser's Finals I went Zard versus his Link and got a four-stock.)

 

[Warzenschwein]

Guys, I need help.

What the actual **** can Squirtle do against Spacies in 3.5.

I'm absolutely hopeless. It's bad against Wolf, worse against Fox.
Is there anything I can do besides hoping for some good uair juggles and perfect gimping?

 

[Daftatt]

Guys, I need help.

What the actual **** can Squirtle do against Spacies in 3.5.

I'm absolutely hopeless. It's bad against Wolf, worse against Fox.
Is there anything I can do besides hoping for some good uair juggles and perfect gimping?

Upthrow jab reset regrab. (just like captain falcon's!)

Upair juggles forever.

As always, your goal with spacies is to get them offstage and gimp, always be looking to force an edgeguard. edgeguarding spacies is easy as pie as squirtle. Down air can stuff any recovery if you hit with the tail, nair can armor through their recoveries and semi-spike. Back air can safely poke at them as they try and recover, or you can fall on them with it and try and knock them under a stage (then edgehog).

Now to another matter.

I'm calling it right now...

Waterfall's kill power is going to get nerfed.

 

[Jamwa]

uthrow to jab reset doesn't work vs down DI cos u just get CC'd and shined.
they need to be high percent but you might as well uair at that point
fthrow tech chases are probs easiest at low %

 

[MrAzureKun]

Hello squad.
I'd like to take this time to thank you all for being so helpful towards those of us who are still learning squirtle.
Thank you very very much.
You're all heroes.

 

[PlateProp]

Upthrow jab reset regrab. (just like captain falcon's!)

Upair juggles forever.

As always, your goal with spacies is to get them offstage and gimp, always be looking to force an edgeguard. edgeguarding spacies is easy as pie as squirtle. Down air can stuff any recovery if you hit with the tail, nair can armor through their recoveries and semi-spike. Back air can safely poke at them as they try and recover, or you can fall on them with it and try and knock them under a stage (then edgehog).

Now to another matter.

I'm calling it right now...

Waterfall's kill power is going to get nerfed.

Why

It doesnt kill til like 150% unless you're at the top, and even then, i'm pretty sure a majority of the cast has up b's that kill close to the top.

Also, @ cmart , Wtf, how does bubble not go through Bowser armor when they're at like 120%

 

[Warzenschwein]

Yeah, just tested Uthrow jab reset against spacies.

It's actually a really, really mediocre option, lol.