Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[~Dad~]

Does anyone have tips against Sonic? His spin move priority is crippling, and his dashdance is very effective against hydroplaned and shellshifted and slingjamping everything.

Personally I like to take him to a small stage, and never, ever get off his ****.

That's my **** now.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Personally I like to take him to a small stage, and never, ever get off his ****.

That's my **** now.

MOM, DAD'S TOUCHING MY ****

 

[PlateProp]

MOM, DAD'S TOUCHING MY ****

Mom left a long time ago.......

 

[SpiderMad]

That's his only taunt cancelable one though!

@ SpiderMad if you wanna face my rusty Squirtle, feel free. You should challenge me when I'm back at my best though.

Just invite me to your house sometime when you're ready

 

[Zwarm]

I go Squirtle overload mode game 2, so ignore that pls. I'm decently happy with game 1, since this was my first tournament back as the cute little turtle

 

[SpiderMad]

You're free to come to my house as well of course, have you ever been to Gamer's HQ?

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I go Squirtle overload mode game 2, so ignore that pls. I'm decently happy with game 1, since this was my first tournament back as the cute little turtle

Interesting use of watergun to block Link's projectiles. I don't think I've seen that before. I think you mighta been using it TOO much though.

 

[Jamwa]

I think you mighta been using it TOO much though.

impossible
heresy
lies
begone!

 

[Cloudburst]

I''m inclined to agree with Mr. Fabulous.

Watergun would be significantly more useful if it same out faster, but my ideal broken Squirtle would have watergun removed, with bubblebeam clanking with projectiles and wavelandable.

And a brand new neutral-b called ****squirt where a fecal fountain erupts from Squirtle's cloaca, propelling him slightly upwards. Also it's a spike.

 

[Player -0]

I think I would like it if water gun acted more like Pit's arrows so you chose either an up-diagonal, slightly down, or straightish path and it would fire in that direction. Unless the watergun was charged. Also make it go a bit farther so you could destroy projectiles better. Also having the hitbox a bit farther out might be nice but kind of un-needed.

Edit - Airdodge out of it would be so sexy, we could be Wolf, just need a water shine now.

 

[~Dad~]

Watergun is good for blocking projectiles, and it can be angled, just not a whole lot.

 

[Player -0]

I know it can be angled and blocks projectiles I just want it so you can hold B -> Push up on control stick -> release to have Squirtle shoot up-forward. That way it's not awkward like right now.

 

[Jamwa]

Squirtle doesnt need buffs imo
he needs his up-b nerfed
other chars in this game need nerfs a lot more as well

 

[~Dad~]

Squirtle doesnt need buffs imo
he needs his up-b nerfed
other chars in this game need nerfs a lot more as well

Shut your mouth Squirtle is bad and needs a gun.

 

[Zwarm]

I just use Water Gun a lot anyway, I didn't even use it for any specific purpose lmao

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I just use Water Gun a lot anyway, I didn't even use it for any specific purpose lmao

I'm sure you'll dominate the Chicago scene with that attitude.

 

[Zwarm]

I'm still learning when I can use it and not in matchups, gimme a break.

Plus it's a bad habit of mine.

No need to be like that

 

[PlateProp]

Shut your mouth Squirtle is bad and needs a gun.

You are now imagining what would happen if Squirtle had Falco's dair.


Oh my god, the fun.

 

[Jamwa]

Shut your mouth Squirtle is bad and needs a gun.

pun intended?

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I'm still learning when I can use it and not in matchups, gimme a break.

Plus it's a bad habit of mine.

No need to be like that

Oh hey, sorry dude. I didn't realize how ****** that sounded. Not tryna hate at all; how could I? Your Squirtle is miles ahead of mine. Furreal, best of luck.

 

[Player -0]

The problem is you guys aren't finishing sentences with a mental Kappa.

 

[Zwarm]

If only this site had an actual Kappa

At least it has

 

[Jamwa]

This site has actual Kappas

 

[Sir Skaro]

Hey guys. So after my performance at TBH4, I was really inspired to take Squirtle to the next level. I've decided to create MU spreadsheets that analyze how two moves (one of Squirtle's moves, and one of the other character's) can interact, which moves wins in what situation, frame data of the moves, notes on possible application, etc. This creates (on average) a 19 x 21 cell spread sheet, analyzing 399 different interactions.

Needless to say, it's a crap ton of work. However, I think this will help develop this relatively undeveloped character, and encourage others to pick up Squirtle. After a spread sheet is complete, I plan on publishing it in it's own discussion in the Squirtle thread. Farther down the road, I will more than likely move these spread sheets to a Google Doc and ask for help from others. But for right now I'd like to tackle this alone. I don't expect to finish any complete spreadsheet any time soon.

With all of this said, I'd like to ask for some advice. Below is one cell that intersects at Bowser's UP-B and Squirtle's jab in the sheet (comparing the two moves). Please tell me your thoughts, what you like, what you found helpful/neglect-able, and if you think there is anything missing. Remember this is rough draft.

-White text indicates neutral control or neutral advantage
-Blue text indicates that which Squirtle has control over or is advantageous to Squirtle
-Red text indicates that which Bowser has control over or is advantageous to Bowser

Bowser Up B (Whirling Fortress) VS Squirtle jab 1, 2, and 3

Grounded up B
intangibility on frames 1-4
jabs 1, 2, and 3 clank but do not interrupt
jabs 1, 2, and 3 clank and intterupt otherwise or can be used to outspace while hitboxes are out
Squirtle wins the clank trade
The only way to outspace this move is to hit the hitbox belonging to Bowser's head, which exposes itself 7 times while there are hitboxes present
Bowser's head is exposed 4 times behind him and 3 times in front of him
Aerial up B
No intangibility
Jabs 1,2, and 3 outspace or trade while hit boxes are out
The only way to outspace this move is to hit the hitbox belonging to Bowser's head, which exposes itself 8 times while there are hitboxes present
Bowser's head is exposed 3 times behind him and 5 times in front of him

Analysis

Possibly the only use for jabbing Bowser out of an aerial up B is to ledge guard him if he is recovering on the same level as Squirtle. Depending on % and location, Squirtle can feasable jab into a dropzone fair, possibly trading with a second up b recovery attempt or armoring through it with a Nair. Since Squirtle has 3 jabs with generous input windows and low cooldowns, it can be used as a blanket ledgeguard if Bowser is recovering level to Squirtle or if Bowser attempts to fade to the ledge from above. Jab 2 has enough knockback to send Bowser out and below the lip of the stage, while jab 3 has the hitbox to hit Bower while below the lip of the stage and send him out. As early as 90% without proper DI, Bowser cannot recover from this (if edge hogged) without a jump.
One advantage of this jab ledge guard over others (like Bubble) is that it has low commitment, where as even a ledge-canceled bubble commits to an offstage position. However, it only covers one, highly situational option, has only 3/5 small windows where it can be done (if hitboxes are present), and can be DI'd and SDI'd.
Concerning the grounded up B, it can be advantageous for Squirtle to outspace Bowser's up b with a jab. If the Bowser is not expecting such this option, it almost guarentees a follow up. If the Bowser CCs the jab, Squirtle will not have a guarenteed follow up (even jab 2 is not guarenteed, since both jab 1 and 2 can be CC'd up to 999%) and can easily be punished.

 

[Jamwa]

dude sorry but i think the 1st thing i learned in my kindof-related design subject is that red and blue make people cry when close to each other.

also im not entirely sure what you mean by jab vs up-b
does the jab and up-b clank and both animations stop?
in this MU i just bubble non stop cos tbh i dont know what bowser does ever

 

[BlueGreenBrown]

Sorry if this gets asked alot, but is there a comprehensive guide to Squirtle anywhere? Preferably not a video guide but that works too. I want to learn all of his character specific tech but its annoying trying to find it all so spread out on these forums. Thanks

 

[PlateProp]

Sorry if this gets asked alot, but is there a comprehensive guide to Squirtle anywhere? Preferably not a video guide but that works too. I want to learn all of his character specific tech but its annoying trying to find it all so spread out on these forums. Thanks

You must dig

Squirtle players too paranoid to compile anything but tech

Also because we dont know what the **** we're doing.

 

[BlueGreenBrown]

You must dig

Squirtle players too paranoid to compile anything but tech

Also because we dont know what the **** we're doing.

Paranoid as in they don't want others to know anything they've found with him? That's kind of sad.. Thanks for confirming my suspicions though.

 

[PlateProp]

Paranoid as in they don't want others to know anything they've found with him? That's kind of sad.. Thanks for confirming my suspicions though.

More lazy actually, plus the fact that we use the google hangout to actually talk about stuff now instead of this board.

Gotta realize that there are only about 10 or less people that legtimately play Squirtle and use his AT stuff, the drought is real

 

[BlueGreenBrown]

More lazy actually, plus the fact that we use the google hangout to actually talk about stuff now instead of this board.

Gotta realize that there are only about 10 or less people that legtimately play Squirtle and use his AT stuff, the drought is real

Gotcha, for some reason I thought Squirtle was actually pretty popular, maybe from watching Jewchainz at Xanadu sometimes. I've got some of his AT down, hydroplaning is giving me a hard time right now though.

 

[PlateProp]

Gotcha, for some reason I thought Squirtle was actually pretty popular, maybe from watching Jewchainz at Xanadu sometimes. I've got some of his AT down, hydroplaning is giving me a hard time right now though.

Squirtle is popularish, but most people are amish and just side b and suck.

Also, I wouldn't watch Jewchainz as he is now, you would be much better watching Daftatt or Dad. JC is getting better, but he used to play amish as hell, and he still has some of that.

 

[BlueGreenBrown]

Squirtle is popularish, but most people are amish and just side b and suck.

Also, I wouldn't watch Jewchainz as he is now, you would be much better watching Daftatt or Dad. JC is getting better, but he used to play amish as hell, and he still has some of that.

Thanks for the help, I'll check those guys out. JC never really wow'd me so it's nice to know there's better people than him to watch.

 

[Jamwa]

Paranoid as in they don't want others to know anything they've found with him? That's kind of sad.. Thanks for confirming my suspicions though.

We must preserve the jank as best we can.

 

[Sir Skaro]

also im not entirely sure what you mean by jab vs up-b
does the jab and up-b clank and both animations stop?
in this MU i just bubble non stop cos tbh i dont know what bowser does ever

Move 1 vs Move 2 as in how the two moves can be used against each other and how their hitboxes interact.

Thanks for the help, I'll check those guys out. JC never really wow'd me so it's nice to know there's better people than him to watch.

We haven't been posting many lately, but if you're hungry to see more Squirtle AT here are some videos of my Squirtle. My best matches are against Peach (just because I know the player well). https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAfAe6qceFw5fy4huhfxCkA

 

[BlueGreenBrown]

Move 1 vs Move 2 as in how the two moves can be used against each other and how their hitboxes interact.



We haven't been posting many lately, but if you're hungry to see more Squirtle AT here are some videos of my Squirtle. My best matches are against Peach (just because I know the player well). https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAfAe6qceFw5fy4huhfxCkA

Really impressed with your use of bubble and your wavelanding onto platforms. You don't really use withdrawel anywhere near as much as most people I've seen and I think it's interesting.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Really impressed with your use of bubble and your wavelanding onto platforms. You don't really use withdrawel anywhere near as much as most people I've seen and I think it's interesting.

Thank you! Appreciate it! The reason I don't use it often is because I don't find withdraw to be a very good move in the neutral game. I almost exclusively use it in the punish game or a tool to escape certain situations (including recovery situations). I'll use it in the neutral seldom, but just to keep my opponent on their feet.

I'd recommend checking out some of @ Zwarm 's Squirtle too. He's kinda a really smart Smasher in general. Also, be careful not to study Squirtle too much in a PM build that's not the current one (3.02). He's been changed since then.

I learned the majority of my advanced tech from this post by dettadeus. Hope it helps!

Some of this is grabbed from the Brawl Pokemon Trainer guide, the rest is P:M specific or otherwise not directly grabbed from the Brawl guide.

Dash Pivot Stuff (ShellShifting etc)

Spoiler

Shellshift

Description- Squirtle goes into his shell out of a dash as he pivots in the opposite direction.
How to perform- Hit back on the analog stick while you're dashing. This is Squirtle's regular dash pivot, but how quickly and how smoothly he turns is so special that it gets its own name, and allows for many of the following ATs. Shellshifting is simply a way of changing your direction of motion very quickly. Dart in and out of your opponent's range and try to bait attacks or read patterns that can be exploited later on. Note that you can dash in the original direction again if you change directions while still in the pivot animation, or you can wait for the pivot animation to finish and pivot again to change directions. Mix it up, and use Squirtle's great manouverability to your advantage.
Project: M Addition: Shellshifting has a 3% hitbox right as he turns around.​

Shellstalling

Description- Squirtle enters his shell as he does in his shellshift, but stays in it and doesn't move at all for about half a second.
How to perform- Do a pivot but let the analog stick return to neutral as quickly as possible.
Alternate method: While holding an Attack input and running, flick the C-Stick in the direction opposite to that which you are running in and continue to hold the control stick in the original direction. This causes a very long stall. (during any point of a Shellstall, you can move the control stick into the direction you would have ShellShifted in and you will begin moving as if you had performed a normal ShellShift)​

Shellslinging

Description- Squirtle is dashing forwards, then quickly jumps forward while turning around, getting a sort of "sling" to his jump.
How to perform- Dash forwards, then input a pivot and jump and the same time. You shouldn't see Squirtle turn around at all, but when he jumps he'll be facing backwards.
Project: M Addition: ShellDash/SlingDash/Some other cool name for it? : Wavedash in the direction you were running right out of a ShellShift. This gives you a really long wavedash because you have a lot of pre-existing momentum.​

Hydroplane Techniques

Spoiler

Hydroplane u-smash

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he slides a big distance while unleashing a u-smash. The u-smash can be charged or uncharged.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, and when you're heading in the opposite direction (but still in the pivot animation), input Up+A at the same time. Hold A if you want to charge it. If you turn Tap Jump off, you'll need to hit Up+Jump(X/Y)+A. How much you slide depends on the timing of your Up+A - maximum distance should be about 2/3 of Final Destination. This applies to all hydroplane techniques - timing is important.​

Hydroplane d-smash

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he slides a big distance while unleashing a d-smash. The d-smash can be charged or uncharged.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, and when you're heading in the opposite direction, hit the c-stick at a 45 degree angle between the down position and the position opposite from where you're facing. If you want to charge the d-smash, press Z as you c-stick and hold it. This can travel nearly the entire length of FD if timed perfectly (and charged).​

Hydroplane f-smash

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he slides a big distance while charging an f-smash, eventually releasing it.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, and when you're heading in the opposite direction, hit the c-stick away from where you're facing and hold Z (or any Attack input). You should be charging an f-smash aimed backwards. Note that the f-smash must be charged because it stops any sliding momentum you have when you release it. Aiming the f-smash forward (in the direction of your slide) is also possible. You need to input an extra direction - just before you c-stick you'll want to hit backwards one more time, then c-stick in the forward direction. The time between the backwards on the analog stick and the forwards on the c-stick should be so small that Squirtle doesn't actually turn around a second time. So to smash forwards, you need to shellshift, then hit backwards on the analog stick, forwards on the c-stick and Z, basically all at the same time. This can reach about 3/4 the length of FD when fully charged and timed perfectly.​

Forward Hydroplane u-smash

Description- Squirtle quickly propels himself forward out of a dash and unleashes a u-smash. He propels himself in the direction he was dashing.
How to perform- While dashing forward, quickly input backwards on the analog stick followed by Up+A. This should be done as quickly as possible for the maximum slide distance. What you're doing is you're shellshifting, cancelling your shellshift with a jump, then cancelling your jump with a u-smash. If you're having trouble with your inputs, think of it as a quarter circle. If you're dashing to the right, you need to do a quarter circle from left to up and hit A. Alternatively, you could hit diagonally up-back on the analog stick while pressing Y+A at the same time. This will register the pivot with your analog stick still in a position to u-smash, while jumping with Y. This is how you'll need to do it if you turn Tap Jump Off.​

Hydrojab

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he does his jab while still getting the same slide as the hydroplanes.
How to perform- Perform a shellshift, but instead of hitting straight backwards to pivot, hit diagonally backwards-down. Once you're heading the other direction, with the analog stick still held diagonally, hit diagonally backwards-down on the c-stick. To be clear, your analog stick and c-stick should both be pointing diagonally side-down, one on each side, separated by 90 degrees. This can also be done with the analog stick diagonally-up, so your analog and c-stick would form a 180 degree angle instead.​

Hydrotilt

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he does his Forward Tilt while getting a slightly shorter slide than other Hydroplanes (but the momentum is constant; he doesn't slow down until the end of the animation)
How to perform- Perform a shellshift, and right before you exit your shell, gently tilt the control stick backwards and press A. This will cause you to slide backwards while performing a Forward Tilt. His other tilts do not get a noticeable slide from this method.​

Itemplane

Description- Squirtle can perform the hydroplane f-smash while holding an item too. This is most useful in the Diddy Kong matchup, where you can keep holding the bananas while hydroplaning.
How to perform- Same inputs as the hydroplane f-smash.​

Hydrotoss

Description- Squirtle will slide the distance of a hydroplane while tossing a held item up or down. Again this is most useful in the Diddy Kong matchup, as it can be used with bananas.
How to perform- Follow the same inputs as a hydroplane u-smash to hydrotoss up, or a hydroplane d-smash to toss down.​

Hydrograb

Description- Out of a pivot, Squirtle lunges forward while doing a grab. If the grab lands, he'll slide with his opponent a decent distance. If you reach the edge and they break out when you still have momentum, you'll both fall off, which can lead to a footstool gimp.
How to perform- Do a shellshift, then hit R and c-stick away from the direction you're facing.​

Jump-Cancelled Hydrograb

Description- Out of a ShellShift, Squirtle performs a JC Grab and slides a massive distance. If you run into an edge you will likely slide off and momentum is generally preserved even when you perform a throw.
How to perform- Do a ShellShift, then perform a JC Grab (X/Y + Z).​

Note: Due to the lack of buffering in P:M, the True Hydroplane technically cannot be performed. However, there is a similar technique (the HydroPivot) explained below which achieves essentially the same effect.
True Hydroplane

Description- As Squirtle comes out of his pivot, he stands up and slides the length of a hydroplane. He is in his standing animation while he slides, so he can do any move.
How to perform- Perform a shellshift, and just before you come out of your pivot, buffer a pivot by hitting back on the analog stick one more time. Timing is the important factor here - if you input the last direction too quickly you won't get much of a slide, and if you input it too late you'll simply initiate a dash backwards.​

HydroPivot

Description- As Squirtle comes out of a ShellShift, he performs a short standing pivot animation while retaining full momentum from the SS. It's possible to travel the entire length of FD with this if timed absolutely perfectly.
How to perform- While holding an Attack input (A or another button set to Attack), perform a ShellShift, and towards the very end (possibly right as Squirtle comes out of his shell), flick the C-Stick diagonally up and backward to the direction you face after the SS.​

Video version - Everything but Itemplane, Hydrotoss, and HydroGrab
Feel free to suggest stuff to add (and also a good name for the SlingDashing thing?)

 

[Zwarm]

<3

Yeah most of my clips of Squirtle are 2.6, unless they're uploaded to Windy City Smash (shameless self plug)

 

[Sir Skaro]

Just bought my tickets for APEX2015. Who will leave their family, friends, and lively hood, take up their cross, and represent Squirtle with me?

 

[~Dad~]

Just bought my tickets for APEX2015. Who will leave their family, friends, and lively hood, take up their cross, and represent Squirtle with me?

If PM is actually going to be at APEX I would love to come.

 

[Sir Skaro]

I'm 99.99% sure they will have PM at APEX. That means there is objectively a 1/1000 chance it will not be at APEX. I think you're safe.