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Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

Burnsy

Smash Lord
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Nov 4, 2012
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Phoenix, AZ
Sorry for the double post bump, but I'm going to be streaming a bit of Squirtle lab today in about ~30 mins to an hour. I want to practice some ATs and more options, so I'm sharing the stream if any other Squirtles wanted to come by, follow along, ask questions or give suggestions.

http://www.twitch.tv/burnsies/

*edit*
Here's the playback of the first session, I narrate a bit and give some general advice. Sorry about any ****ing around, i try to stay focused :S

http://www.twitch.tv/burnsies/b/527332391
http://www.twitch.tv/burnsies/b/527343261
 
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Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Daftatt
I just realized that when olimar throws a RYB pikmin onto squirtle then throws or smashes squirtle offstage, as long as the olimar does not recall the attached pikmin (which he should) squirtle can use it to recover, after a short withdraw in the air the pikmin will act as a collision with the side-b hitbox, popping squirtle up in the air allowing him to withdraw once again, a major boon to his recovery options. Just something to keep in mind should the situation arise in the Olimar MU.
 

Mtank

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
63
Just a quick question: what have you guys found to be effective out of shield options for squirtle? One thing i find helpful sometimes, but hurtful in others is his slide after being hit with an attack in shield. Doesnt this limit his OOS punishes a significant amount or is there something you guys have to found to fix this?
 

Player -0

Smash Hero
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Helsong's Carpeted Floor
Just a quick question: what have you guys found to be effective out of shield options for squirtle? One thing i find helpful sometimes, but hurtful in others is his slide after being hit with an attack in shield. Doesnt this limit his OOS punishes a significant amount or is there something you guys have to found to fix this?
Usually WD OoS -> Grab or something like that. You can perfect shield or use Shield SDI (Lol how do you even do it?) to minimize the slide.

WD OoS is so good. You can also do aerials OoS if they're close. Side-B OoS if they're close or far.

Edit - Also what's up with Squirtle's Up Air. It doesn't really kill and doesn't have enough hitstun/hitlag/Idon'trememberdadifference to combo people up.
 
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Jamwa

Smash Champion
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cave plantation
Edit - Also what's up with Squirtle's Up Air. It doesn't really kill and doesn't have enough hitstun/hitlag/Idon'trememberdadifference to combo people up.
Uair is my favourite move probably
I use it out of withdraw if my opponent is above 20%
I find I kill with it a lot too - maybe that's because everyone plays floaties :s
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Usually WD OoS -> Grab or something like that. You can perfect shield or use Shield SDI (Lol how do you even do it?) to minimize the slide.

WD OoS is so good. You can also do aerials OoS if they're close. Side-B OoS if they're close or far.

Edit - Also what's up with Squirtle's Up Air. It doesn't really kill and doesn't have enough hitstun/hitlag/Idon'trememberdadifference to combo people up.
Up Air is amazing, but it's understandable that people have a hard time seeing it's value. The indisputable best use for Up-Air is as a follow-up to downsmash/down-throw/Dair/d-tilt where the opponent is sent flying at a 45 degree angle or higher (usually around 60-75 degrees), you can shellsling to immediately get under them, and doublejump to cancel the horizontal momentum as well as put yourself in striking range from underneath. It's one of squirtle's most reliable combos and very potent against characters who are floaty and are often at that awkward angle above you that nothing else can extend the combo (except waterfall... but, that's far less reliable). The move is particularly fantastic on low ceilings (of course) such as wario ware, or any stage where you can shellsling off a platform to get the hit closer to the upper blast line.

Here is an example.
 

Player -0

Smash Hero
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It reminds me of Falco's 2nd hit of Up Air. It sends the opponent up but can be DI'ed horizontally pretty easily. My problem is that it doesn't really have range, have much hitstun to combo when chaining people up, or a lot of kill power.
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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It reminds me of Falco's 2nd hit of Up Air. It sends the opponent up but can be DI'ed horizontally pretty easily. My problem is that it doesn't really have range, have much hitstun to combo when chaining people up, or a lot of kill power.
tldr: Up-air is good because it doesn't kill or combo (the sourspot combos though), it's a move that puts characters in a punishable position as they fall back to the stage. On any other character it would be bad, but because squirtle has the highest mobility of any character in any smash game (arguably pikachu can achieve stage omnipresence as well with QAC, but not aerial omnipresence) it becomes strangely useful in ways that aren't apparent to most smash players. #JustASquirtleThing

All true, but it's a very safe move for squirtle and simply a very consistent option (also squirtle is a god at punishing landings so sending them up is almost never a "bad" option), so if the nair looks like it may not connect from below (a great way to kill of the sides) the only other option is up-air. And like I was saying, without up-air squirtle has a really hard time against the puffballs, also important against the puffballs is Dair.

I find that all of squirtles moves have a unique utility in that even though they don't necessarily kill his mobility is so unbelievably good that simply having the ability to put opponents in a punishable position is invaluable. He literally does not have a bad move. Which is even more impressive because he has 2 more moves than most characters (turn around and crawl attack)

In contrast to characters like marth that have a fairly obvious combo percentage window and a kill percentage window, squirtle can follow up/combo on characters at any percent because of the lack of killing knockback on many of his moves.
 
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WhiteLightnin

Smash Journeyman
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Warning Received
Greetings! Here is some REALLY IMPORTANT TIME SENSITIVE INFORMATION. WATCH THIS VIDEO AND/OR READ BELOW! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJHZj5w83vg

It has to do with us being able to continue to play Wifi on custom servers after Nintendo Wifi shuts down but we HAVE TO ACT BEFORE THE 18th if you don't want to have to create a new fc and add all of your current friends again.

Just enter your friend code including the (-) between numbers and for GameID the code of the game which in this case would be RSB* for SSBB. You are going to want to enter a letter for the region you are playing from. For most of us that will be an "E" which is for the Americas. So in the GameID slot you would have RSBE. The link to the website is http://wiimmfi.profeibe.at/

*I'm posting this in multiple places to give as many people as possible the chance to see it in time. I apologize if this isn't an appropriate place to post this within the forum, but not all of the character forums have a social/general discussion thread. In those cases I tried to pick a thread where I know a lot of people will see it. I figured many people will be interested in this as net play is not a plausible alternative for quite a few people.
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Greetings! Here is some REALLY IMPORTANT TIME SENSITIVE INFORMATION. WATCH THIS VIDEO AND/OR READ BELOW! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJHZj5w83vg

It has to do with us being able to continue to play Wifi on custom servers after Nintendo Wifi shuts down but we HAVE TO ACT BEFORE THE 18th if you don't want to have to create a new fc and add all of your current friends again.

Just enter your friend code including the (-) between numbers and for GameID the code of the game which in this case would be RSB* for SSBB. You are going to want to enter a letter for the region you are playing from. For most of us that will be an "E" which is for the Americas. So in the GameID slot you would have RSBE. The link to the website is http://wiimmfi.profeibe.at/

*I'm posting this in multiple places to give as many people as possible the chance to see it in time. I apologize if this isn't an appropriate place to post this within the forum, but not all of the character forums have a social/general discussion thread. In those cases I tried to pick a thread where I know a lot of people will see it. I figured many people will be interested in this as net play is not a plausible alternative for quite a few people.
1. This is spam, never do this again
2. If you want as many people to see it as possible, don't post on the squirtle boards (lol, squirtle boards jokes)
3. If you are at all serious about people seeing this contact one of the writers for the smashboards news page, almost everyone on the forum checks it
4. Dude, you're a freaking premium subscriber, you should know better than this.
 

~Dad~

part time gay dad
Joined
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Messages
656
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Edmond, OK
Hey just wanted to ask if anybody has advice for the Game and Watch matchup. A local player has picked him up recently and I have yet to figure that character out.
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
Joined
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GnW has hitboxes that persist for some time. Be very careful in mixing up your movement and approach, because if he can somewhat predict where you are going to be, he can punish you by putting a strong hitbox there.
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Jab-reset after short-hop-bubble, just do it, if they are too far away after the bubble go for f-tilt

Hey just wanted to ask if anybody has advice for the Game and Watch matchup. A local player has picked him up recently and I have yet to figure that character out.
If he doesn't sweetspot the ledge then you should d-smash edgeguard (or time an f-smash or shield grab). Also bacon flip is amazing, never forget it, G&W can use it to combo into hammer. You can armor through it and hit him with nair, you can dair through it.

Many G&W players have mean edgeguarding games, getting around this is key to success. For instance G&W can get on top of your waterfall and Dair you, so aquajet recoveries are somewhat safer.

If you can get a watergun on him as you are going in for recovery, many G&W position themselves for d-tilt edgeguards, or hammer/fsmash/dsmash (high endlag moves) if they think you are too high to sweetspot. A small hit of watergun will actually push G&W back far enough that he would need to reposition again to land these moves, this gives you a little bit of time to grab the ledge safely, and if you feint going in the the ledge he may try and catch you with a hammer, as he does this move hit him with watergun to push him back, then fall down past the ledge and waterfall up to punish.

On stages with walls below the ledges such as wario ware/yoshi's story/yoshi's island/greenhill zone, and this advice goes for nearly all MUs, squirtle can very safely recover by Withdraw shortbursting (withdrawing for only a moment in the air to get horizontal momentum) into a wall and wallclinging. After getting wall cling you can jump up over the ledge off the wall.

Below assumes you have properly positioned your wallcling on the wall for your inteded tactic (as in not too low you can't jump back on, or for the feint strategies not too high you go above the ledge). Lower placement is safer but wallcling too low and it removes some feint options
1. If the opponent begins charging a smash attack you have a guaranteed punish as you can wallcling longer than any smash charges, you can wait for their attack to come out then jump up and bair/nair/dair them as a punish.

2. If the opponent is content with waiting (as in they see through your ruse, or so they assume), fake them out by walljumping out of wallcling (or just jumping if you placed yourself low enough) if you draw out an attack animation then you should fall a small distance and waterfall punish the endlag of whatever attack was thrown out. Or use the window of safety to aquajet to grab the ledge

3. If you attempt to walljump out of wallcling to feint for the ledge with the intention to draw out an attack from an opponent standing on the edge of the stage, and they see through it and dive you with a spike or some other move, if you placed your wallcling high you can just air-dodge through them back onto stage and then the tables have turned, they will likely panic recover (as in no sweetspot) and you can d-smash edgeguard (except on roy, unless you are at low percentages and can time the armor frame of d-smash), or run off the edge and go for an armored nair gimp, or go for a fast falled invincible tail Bair stage spike, or shield grab. If you placed your wallcling lower you can walljump out and upwardly aim waterfall for maximum defensiveness, blocking the dive.

4. If they dive you during your wallcling (opponents likely to do this are marth/olimar/mario/lucas etc) and attempt to either stagespike or just hit you downwards you can jump out away from the ledge and withdraw-aquajet back on to safety, you may be even able to punish with aquajet. Or you can drop away from the ledge (likely avoiding their attack) and waterfall back up, this is perhaps a safer option but it's much less rewarding.

tldr: wallcling is amazing and with a little practice on the mindgames it's nearly impossible to edgeguard (which is why wall stages are the best squirtle stages), even a safe edgeguard like sonic's spring allows for a guaranteed safe recovery by squirtle as he could jump away from the stage out of wall cling and aquajet back on. Also remember if you place your wallcling high you can feint by bouncing off the wall in W/draw and b-reversal aquajet back to the ledge.
 
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WhiteLightnin

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 25, 2013
Messages
217
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Albuquerque, NM
1. This is spam, never do this again
2. If you want as many people to see it as possible, don't post on the squirtle boards (lol, squirtle boards jokes)
3. If you are at all serious about people seeing this contact one of the writers for the smashboards news page, almost everyone on the forum checks it
4. Dude, you're a freaking premium subscriber, you should know better than this.
Thanks for the input. I apologize if this bothered some people and I realized it may have been in violation of the rules. I thought long and hard about it before I did it and decided that it was important enough info to take the risk. I appreciate the knowledge about how to properly get information out there, and you don't have to worry about this being a repeated occurrence. Aside from deciding that the posts were not in violation of the intention of the rule, I figured the information was important enough that people would want to know about it soon as it is time sensitive information that could save them a lot of work. If I had been aware of the proper process, I assure you I would have taken it. Clearly I wouldn't have gone to all that trouble and spent so much time to post it for everyone just to spam a message. As far as being a premium member and knowing better, I am a premium member because I want to support the site. All I was trying to do was to support the community with some information they might find useful and not to cause a problem. It would have been smart if I had messaged a moderator ahead of time to ask if it was okay, but unfortunately that didn't come to mind at the time. Once again, thank you for filling me in on the proper procedure, and I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you or anyone else.
 
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Zwarm

Smash Hero
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Nov 9, 2008
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Mount Prospect, IL
Burnsy I tried to MM your DDD buddy (I feel bad, I didn't catch his name) but halfway during game 1 we got kicked off for tournament, and he had to leave after that.

Also I'm not playing Squirtle much lately :/
 

~Dad~

part time gay dad
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Burnsy, Daftatt, thanks for the input guys.

Also **** Roy that matchup is horrifying.
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
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Roy's not too bad to fight tbh. He is incredibly comboable for us and has the same problems with commitment as Marth. Work on more tricky baiting attempts and maximizing your punishes.
 

Yikarur

Smash Master
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hey guys :) I'm new to project m and squirtle and need advices on the Falco MU. How is the MU in general and how do I play it? this seems really hard to me..
 

Mtank

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
63
hey guys :) I'm new to project m and squirtle and need advices on the Falco MU. How is the MU in general and how do I play it? this seems really hard to me..
you just have to play very aggressive and keep him on his toes rather then the other way around. Squirtle is very good at comboing spacies, or most character for that matter. Down smash is a very effective move vs spacies, as you can use it almost infinitly in a row vs them if you can follow/predict their tech rolls and follow them with dsmash. Just dont let him determine the match, and get practice comboing fastfallers.
 

PlateProp

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Does anyone know where the pmbr keeps mp3s of the song from the squirtle announcement 2.5 video?
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Punish Tech-Rolls with Forward Hydroplaned Up-Smash
I just wanna say that the amount of salt I've received from playing Squirtle is unreal. It makes me want to play him more.
People complain you can't combo him. I always reply as "No, YOU can't combo him". Capt. falcon can combo the crap out of the poor pokemon.
 

Zwarm

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Squirtle is one of those perfect weights where everyone in the game can combo him pretty hard, most people don't know that, though
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
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He's actually a bit on the floaty side. I mean he's not dropping out of combos like Puff, Kirby, or Weegee but he's definitely more on that end rather than the fastfaller end. I would list a good number of other characters as "highly comboable" before I'd arrive at Squirtle.
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Retreat from getup-attacks and punish with hydro-grab

He's actually a bit on the floaty side. I mean he's not dropping out of combos like Puff, Kirby, or Weegee but he's definitely more on that end rather than the fastfaller end. I would list a good number of other characters as "highly comboable" before I'd arrive at Squirtle.
Most like to cite his low friction as a reason he is hard to combo as opposed to his weight.


Also I'm happy this is a thing :awesome:
 
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Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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you just have to play very aggressive and keep him on his toes rather then the other way around. Squirtle is very good at comboing spacies, or most character for that matter. Down smash is a very effective move vs spacies, as you can use it almost infinitly in a row vs them if you can follow/predict their tech rolls and follow them with dsmash. Just dont let him determine the match, and get practice comboing fastfallers.
Not true, D-smash can be CCd, and SDId out of. If you whiff on a D-smash you are going to get punished with Dair.

@ Yikarur Yikarur Screw up his neutral game with watergun/bubble.
the best option against falco will always to get him offstage, you can armor through or trade with any of his recovery options with nair/bair and gimp him. If you play your options correctly there is literally nothing a falco can do to get past a squirtle edgeguard (you can even bubble his pathetic up-B)
Don't use withdraw at all, you will get a Dair to the face by any competent falco.
Also beware of getting punished from above on waterfall recovery, W/Draw recovery is usually a better option.
 
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Burnsy

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I'm pretty sure I've never in my life had someone successfully CC Squirts dsmash and actually have the chance to punish before I could act. I was pretty sure it did consistent hitstun and was like trying to CC a Shiek dsmash, like you can do it but is it worth it? Prob won't get anything.

You can't infinity dsmash spacies lol. More than two in a row is usually too big a stretch and they get out. I did laugh about that mental image of squirtle breakdancing all over the spacies until kill percents, lol.
 
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~Dad~

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You can tech chase spacies with dsmash until they want to SD just to get you to leave them alone lol
 

Burnsy

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Go underneath Lylat and recover if you're pro, that's the really hard one. Or if anyone wants to play around in uncharted territory, maybe someone can find a way to go under FD and recover without an item.
 
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~Dad~

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Pshh Lylat is easy mode. Also I swear to god I can get SO CLOSE to getting under FD. It drives me insane that I get sooo close to the ledge and then just die.
 

Burnsy

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Lylatt may be easy but there's not really anything that rivals it in difficulty. You need a smash side b and really tight timing.

What method gets you closest on FD? I had hoped reverse full blast watergun might move me under further/faster than side-b but I cant seem to get it to work.
 

~Dad~

part time gay dad
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Shellsling b reverse watergun to double jump up b can get you reaally close.

Also Lylat may be one of the more difficult but Dreamland is by far the coolest. (It's also the jankiest looking thing and I love it)
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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I'm pretty sure I've never in my life had someone successfully CC Squirts dsmash and actually have the chance to punish before I could act. I was pretty sure it did consistent hitstun and was like trying to CC a Shiek dsmash, like you can do it but is it worth it? Prob won't get anything.

You can't infinity dsmash spacies lol. More than two in a row is usually too big a stretch and they get out. I did laugh about that mental image of squirtle breakdancing all over the spacies until kill percents, lol.
I played against a fox that CCd and ASDId down then grab punished my D-smash, I wasn't directly on top of him though. Another thing is that they can shield if they read the startup and then shield grab punish, which is why if I could manage to hydroplane D-smash reliably it would be amazing, it's by far the hardest hydroplane. Right now to keep the move safe I perfect-wavedash into range, which gives a lesser but similar effect as the hydroplane
 
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Sir Skaro

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Another thing is that they can shield if they read the startup and then shield grab punish, which is why if I could manage to hydroplane D-smash reliably it would be amazing, it's by far the hardest hydroplane. Right now to keep the move safe I perfect-wavedash into range, which gives a lesser but similar effect as the hydroplane
I think hydroplane downsmash is the hardest on newer controllers. On older controllers (or, at least all of my oldest controllers from 2001 - 2005), the 45 degree notches on the C-Stick register as up or down smashes, respectively. On my new controller they register as forward smashes. It's really easy to reliably hydroplane downsmash (or even up smash, though you get more distance out of the jump canceled one) with older controllers. This is just a theory though, as this could be a complete coincidence. However when you hit shield you lose the majority of your momentum and end up getting shield grabbed anyway. It's still amazing, nonetheless.
 
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Dandy Lion

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Punish Tech-Rolls with Forward Hydroplaned Up-Smash

People complain you can't combo him. I always reply as "No, YOU can't combo him". Capt. falcon can combo the crap out of the poor pokemon.
Yeeeah, a friend plays good tech chasers like C. Falcon and Shiek and still can't figure out how to combo Squirtle. More power for me.

I think I'll work on Squirtle more than my other co-main since he needs more love. :c
 

Burnsy

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If you empty hydroplane by pivoting out of shellshift when you have speed, then quickly dsmash, you get the same effect except you have more control over the distance you slide AND you don't have to worry about a janky 45 angle cstick input.
 
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