Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Toby.]

This has nothing to do with dash out of shellshift. What actually is happening is a momentum boost. During shellshift you are always building momentum, until the very last frame (or so it feels). If you JC grab out of the last frame of the shell shift then you will likely get the same effect you are describing.

You can also charge a smash the same way. Up/down smash dont slide, but side smash does.
/snip

All squirtle's smash attacks slide. Hydroplane dsmash is super useful now.

 

[dettadeus]

By the way, the Squirtle section of this thread will probably be really useful to those new to Squirtle and his Shell shenanigans: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161741

Every shell-shifting related technique in there still works in P:M, although the input timings can be a bit more strict on some of them.

 

[TheEnigmaLiesBroken]

I'm loving the new squirtle guys Very impressive.

I think I'd rather his B be bubble and his down B be water gun though, like mario. Just me though. I don't like the quick projectile being on my down button :/

 

[ChKn]

At least you don't keep forgetting that you have Bubble at your use from time to time like me lol.

 

[Dubforce]

1) if you have the time to watergun a projectile you can just move/approach instead

2) if you have time to watergun to clink you could have moved and been able to punish better

3) escape combos? You'll set yourself up for another one in the water gun lag

4) ranged harrass I'll definitely give to you. Squirtle doesn't have other mid/long range options. +1

5) all his other approaches are faster than WG, I'll give you the "safe" part but the followups out of WG are dubious at best IMO, and the area you can hit with is less than ideal and starts at a bad angle.

Please don't confuse the WG rant with a squirtle rant. I love playing squirtle and I think he's really good but almost all the possible uses for WG are better suited to other moves imho

1) What if I don't want to move or approach? (Marth MU)

2) Time? Watergun has a low start up if you just tap B and then hold up....

3) I've escaped a falcon knee once or twice with this. Maybe it only works well against people with so much aerial momentum that they cannot come back for you.

4) xD

5) Honestly all that matters is the safety.

Remember, watergun is just another tool. It is not at all useless. You should really mess around with it some more if you think that it is. It doesn't have as much startup or ending lag as you are implying, and even less so airborne.

I should also mention I mostly use watergun as a defensive option in MU's where I'm just way out-prioritized (link, marth, Ike, etc.). Watergun feels almost essential in the Ivy/Squirtle MU and the Marth/Squirtle MU since you have to play to their insane spacing.

 

[GurrenLogann]

how do you make squirtle pull out the sunglasses?

 

[GunBlaze]

Up Taunt, then as soon as Squirtle lands, press B. Getting hit will break them, though.

 

[Eaode]

1) What if I don't want to move or approach? (Marth MU)

2) Time? Watergun has a low start up if you just tap B and then hold up....

3) I've escaped a falcon knee once or twice with this. Maybe it only works well against people with so much aerial momentum that they cannot come back for you.

4) xD

5) Honestly all that matters is the safety.

Remember, watergun is just another tool. It is not at all useless. You should really mess around with it some more if you think that it is. It doesn't have as much startup or ending lag as you are implying, and even less so airborne.

I should also mention I mostly use watergun as a defensive option in MU's where I'm just way out-prioritized (link, marth, Ike, etc.). Watergun feels almost essential in the Ivy/Squirtle MU and the Marth/Squirtle MU since you have to play to their insane spacing.

Yeah. It seems we can agree at least that it is a situational tool. I can see that it's not *literally* useless but it is definitely niche. Imo the main thing holding it back is the startup angle haha.

 

[MonkUnit]

Does anyone have any squirtle vids yet?

 

[Plasma]

You can also charge a smash the same way. Up/down smash dont slide, but side smash does.

Run > shellshift > left/right c-stick + hold z > release when ready. You will move the same distance you described earlier, sliding all the while.

You can charge up and down smashes with the slide.

Up smashing:
Run > Shellshift > Up + A (Hold to charge, of course). If you don't use tap jump, Up + Y/X + A.
Down Smashing:
Run > Shellshift > c-stick diagonally down and towards the direction you first ran (Hold Z to charge).

 

[dettadeus]

@Monk i could upload a couple wifi matches but i'm still not used to squirtle and SD with withdraw pretty often ;c

 

[Kudzu]

Squirtle in PM2.5 is OP. He reminds me of Fox from Melee. Fast, quick powerful smash attacks, the ability to chase off the ledge and safely return (most of the time) and great with combos.

A couple things though:

Up smash is ridiculous. Way too powerful. I like being a **** with it, but it's got a ton of range and a ton of power. Needs to be nerfed a tad for the next version.

Side B chasing off the ledge is a high risk/high reward situation. If you can hit a recovering opponent with the side b off the ledge, you're pretty much guaranteed a kill. If you miss though, you're pretty much dead. Once again, high risk/high reward.

Love that he's just plain hard to hit due to his size. Even characters like Ike can miss him with huge moves just because he's tiny.

He looks like a baby. Legit.

Love the improved surf. Not only is it easier to recover, but it works as a pretty decent kill move when combo'd with tilts, aerials and smashes.

Also, I got a ****ING BLISTER on my right thumb from playing Squirtle. Hardcore.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Does anybody have any concerns with the current design of Withdraw/Aqua Jet? I ask this because I think some things need to be changed or at least inspected further. :/

 

[Eaode]

I initially thought Withdraw needed some improvements but after playing a fair bit of squirtle, withdraw is totally fine (read: amazing)

Water Gun is very niche and I think it could stand to see improvement, but it's not totally useless. I think if the angle it starts firing at were raised slightly it'd be perfect.

 

[Translucent]

I would definitely like the angle of water gun to be raised slightly to begin with. I'm really liking withdraw how it is right now for the most part, because it can lead into an aerial, jab, or grab afterwards depending on %.

 

[Gamester]

Well as far as specials I love all of them. They all do a specific thing so honestly I think they should all stay the same EXCEPT for water gun which should at least have the ability to shoot at a slightly higher angle if you hold up even when you only tap B. As for his smashes I think Dsmash is a bit slow, Fsmash is ok, and Usmash needs a bit less knock back especially at the higher portion of the hit box. Even when you only hit them with the tip they still go flying lol.

 

[McNinja]

@monk, I have a crew battle with me playing Squirtle in it.

Should I still post it here even though it's a crew battle?

 

[MonkUnit]

link to the part where your squirtle is up if you could

 

[Karnu]

Can't wait to start using Squirt, he will be my secondary to Lucario.

 

[Ratking1234]

Having a hard time understanding all the Bubble hype.

It seems really good, but most situations where I'd use it, something else almost always works better; at least in terms of starting a combo, or approaching, or whatever. There's a few instances it seems alright. Am I not getting something?

 

[Eaode]

It's disjointed so therefore safe. It's multihit and is great for poking shields. It's amazingly fast in a short hop. Most importantly, the thing it has over his other options like aerials and stuff is that it's a guaranteed knockdown. It's a guaranteed start to a combo or techchase.

 

[Ratking1234]

Both the aerial and on the ground HB are disjointed?

I'm speaking about it more as an aerial. If the hit boxes are the same, then I still don't get it, because I get hit approaching with it more than any other approach. Feels like everything goes through it. That's my problem with it really. It's properties when it connects are great. I'm also liking it OoS

 

[MonkUnit]

Hb ?

 

[Ratking1234]

Hb ?

Hitbox. Sorry.

 

[Eaode]

Don't try to trade with stuff with bubble. But it's extremely good and poking into where squirtle's body can't quiiite reach, but you can't exactly challenge stuff face on (MU dependant of course)

Mix it into your dashdancing and stuff. You can throw it out without getting into grab range for most characters, and it's great on shields.

 

[MonkUnit]

Bio changed the forum icon from PT to squirtle. yay

 

[Ratking1234]

Don't try to trade with stuff with bubble. But it's extremely good and poking into where squirtle's body can't quiiite reach, but you can't exactly challenge stuff face on (MU dependant of course)

Mix it into your dashdancing and stuff. You can throw it out without getting into grab range for most characters, and it's great on shields.

You talking about throwing it out in a dash dance grounded or as an aerial?

I'm still thinking of it mostly as an aerial. Haven't given much thought grounded as much cause of lag.

 

[Dubforce]

You can charge up and down smashes with the slide.

Up smashing:
Run > Shellshift > Up + A (Hold to charge, of course). If you don't use tap jump, Up + Y/X + A.
Down Smashing:
Run > Shellshift > c-stick diagonally down and towards the direction you first ran (Hold Z to charge).

Okay weird. All these different techs. I should have suspected JC-Usmash would come into it. I missed that just like I did with Ike's side-b.

I'm still having a lot of trouble with standard forward-moving hydroplaining with usmash, but I feel pretty comfortable with options out of SS.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Squirtle can pseudo-doraki jump (without needing to sweetspot)

When holding the ledge, hit back and then forward again to wall cling right on to the ledge. Then walljump. You'll keep your double jump just like if you were to actually doraki jump.

 

[Eaode]

You talking about throwing it out in a dash dance grounded or as an aerial?

I'm still thinking of it mostly as an aerial. Haven't given much thought grounded as much cause of lag.

Aerial. Always aerial.

 

[MonkUnit]

I feel like his walljump is kind of short because I've tried doing edgeguarding with doraki jump fair but I don't travel as far as I thought I would and miss them.

 

[Tmacc]

I loved using bubble for recovery. Not only does it stall him in the air, but it's diagonal angle also prevents or avoids a lot of edgeguards.

Still learning to get his Withdrawal down. But I think it's sooo good, dash dance bait into withdrawal or grab depending on the situation...he's so effing mobile.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Withdrawl is a weird move. I feel like Im not using it enough.
Because I use it maybe twice a match.

 

[Translucent]

What are people's opinions on squirtle spot on the tier list?

 

[dettadeus]

too early to tell

 

[Eaode]

I'd honestly say mid-high. Though obv it's too early. I def don't think he's top tier material, but I don't see him ever being considered "bad"

 

[Stunts]

Is sideB>nair>repeat actually any good. I can do this to the CPU to insane %'s and it seems to me that the CPU doesn't know how to DI. Seems to me that you can do any of squirtle's arials after being hit by sideB over and over, depending on who you do it on. But, I haven't done it on any real hardcore players yet.

 

[Translucent]

Do you think he could definitely be tourney viable though?

I've seen some speculations saying that he's low tier, and he's not that great of a character.

 

[MonkUnit]

It's way to early too say that. The game is like a week old lol.

 

[DoH]

I keep killing myself with Squirtle...he's not jigglypuff lol