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[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

Who do you think is the most likely possible Square-Enix Newcomer? (Two Choices possibles)


  • Total voters
    537
  • Poll closed .

Shin Chie

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Listen Geno boys, I get it. I get what its like to want your favorite character to be repped for a long time and for it not to happen for a while. It really sucks. I understand. But the truth is, Geno is a character that has only appeared once or twice and is only really popular in the Nintendo niche bubble. Dragon Quest is a franchise that basically invented the JRPG Genre, is a huge media phenomenon in Japan, has many years of legacy, etc. Nintendo is more likely to choose Dragon Quest and that's the hard truth. I want both Erdrick and Geno in. But we're just gonna have to most likely probably wait next game for Geno. It sucks but its the truth.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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Just like with Heihachi, if Geno is not playable, I also expect a ****ty excuse by Sakurai. Because come on, the "duh, I can't make Heihachi playable because of his speed" is probably one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just like the "Ridley is too big" (and now that Ridley is in the game, the Sakurai's fanboys see how much it was easy to make Ridley playable when you actually want to make him playable).

Sakurai always has lame excuses to not make a character playable. I would like him to say the truth, even if it sounds rude.

Now, about the Square Enix's rep, as I said, I'm really starting to doubt in Geno's chance even though there's a lot of good signs for him.
At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that Erdrick wouldn't be a waste of money, even if people don't want him, they would buy him at the end of the day.
"A fighter made out of Wood would be too heavy for a small fighter"
 

Fatmanonice

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Woooooo boy, preach.

Not to mention the NoA tweet earlier in the year shouting out Geno and Mallow, and that Nintendo trivia question that was during the Game Awards where the question was basically just “which game was Geno in?”

No character on the SE List at all has had THIS MUCH evidence highlighted toward them.
Along with the Nintendo sponsored quiz during the VGAs the Geno thread showed me where Geno's part of one of the questions. Like I said, it's all these dumb little coincidences and nods to "hey, this guy has a fanbase" and yet, here we are, 13 years later. At least Isaac got the sweet release of death with a cool Mii costume, an assist trophy, and a backdoor answer from NoA about why he wasn't playable.

Shin Chie Shin Chie Let's be real, there is no "next time." If he's not in Ultimate, it's just over. Period. Even if it wasn't, this is probably going to be the only Smash game with no cuts so his chance to be part of the most complete game in the series would make it more or less an empty victory.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Woooooo boy, preach.

Not to mention the NoA tweet earlier in the year shouting out Geno and Mallow, and that Nintendo trivia question that was during the Game Awards where the question was basically just “which game was Geno in?”

No character on the SE List at all has had THIS MUCH evidence highlighted toward them.
I mean, I agree with most of Fatmanonice's points, but some of them seem to be reaching:
  • For one, the NoA tweet and the trivia during the Game Awards were more than likely (read: 99.99%) Nintendo of America's doing. Most of Geno's fanbase is in America, so it makes sense that Nintendo of America would acknowledge that. However, Nintendo of Japan is the one calling the shots, so promotion from Nintendo of America means almost nothing.
  • The nods to Geno in base are likely just that, nods. The icons are literally just Spirits, and again, Sakurai likes Geno and knows that there's demand for him, so it makes sense for him to be an online icon. At the end of the day, it's a lot easier to negotiate for .png files than for character licenses, hence the Spirits.
  • Any argument that Geno's Spirit is "special" seems like confirmation bias. The even stats are integer values that calculate the stats of the Spirit and nothing else, and his placement means little as well, other than it being thematic that he's in space (since he comes from Star Road) because the player can go about World of Light in any order they want. If you want to argue that him being a Legendary Spirit means something then yeah, I'd agree, and if Spirits don't disconfirm then I'd say that's a point for him, but stats and placement aren't.
  • Fatmanonice acknowledged this himself, but the placement of Geno on Shulk is tin foil hat conspiracy-level speculation. It could be thematic, but it's just as likely that the person playing as Shulk liked Geno, or it was slipped in to soft-disconfirm him like what happened with Ashley's abrupt inclusion in the August Direct as an assist trophy
No one can argue against the Nintendo Dream interview, or how easy it would be to get the character license to Geno; there are valid points for him, but the above ones just aren't it.
except... he's a terraformer. That's one of his main appeals.
...That's the point.

The point is that Isaac would be a unique addition to the roster, but if one were to judge him solely by appearance he is, by definition, an anime swordsman. It conveys the point that the "anime swordsman" argument is weak because it discounts a large variety of characters who could be unique additions to the roster.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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Listen Geno boys, I get it. I get what its like to want your favorite character to be repped for a long time and for it not to happen for a while. It really sucks. I understand. But the truth is, Geno is a character that has only appeared once or twice and is only really popular in the Nintendo niche bubble. Dragon Quest is a franchise that basically invented the JRPG Genre, is a huge media phenomenon in Japan, has many years of legacy, etc. Nintendo is more likely to choose Dragon Quest and that's the hard truth. I want both Erdrick and Geno in. But we're just gonna have to most likely probably wait next game for Geno. It sucks but its the truth.
I ain't a geno boy smh.

Dragon Quest didn't invent JRPGs. If anything, D&D did. Even if DQ is the "grandfather of JRPGs," does that really mean anything for Smash, or even Nintendo? If they really cared about getting the history of video games totally represented, then we'd have a playable character from Tetris, and Pong wouldn't just be an assist trophy. What reason does Nintendo have to pick Erdrick? Name one good reason. There isn't one. "Advertising" has never really done much for franchises from Smash. Fire Emblem is a great example, it never sold well because of Smash, it sold well because they advertised it elsewhere. If Nintendo went to Square for Geno or Sora, and they said no, (which did not happen, apparently nobody has ever said no to nintendo on Smash) they wouldn't say "alright we'll settle for Erdrick." They'd give up and pick someone that isn't SE.

Most of Geno's fanbase is in America
Not true. Geno is the most highly requested 3rd party character in Japan by most polls. Even when he's not the most requested, he's really high up there. The only place Geno's fanbase is smaller is Europe, since they didn't get SMRPG until virtual console.

The point is that Isaac would be a unique addition to the roster, but if one were to judge him solely by appearance he is, by definition, an anime swordsman. It conveys the point that the "anime swordsman" argument is weak because it discounts a large variety of characters who could be unique additions to the roster.
I'm pretty indifferent towards Isaac, but I think if he used his large glowy push hands and earthquakes in his trailer, he wouldn't get as much backlash. "Anime swordsman" is something that only bothers people when they have nothing unique like that. See: Shulk. I'm still unconvinced Erdrick could be unique at all.
 

Fatmanonice

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In the end, if Geno's not in Ultimate, we basically wasted 13 years of our lives and we're a joke as a fanbase and individuals but, hey, we still have another year to wait before we decide to bite down on the ol' cyanide capsule that's been standard issue since 2008. Maybe we'll do a coordinated mass hanging on Twitch come next December, amirite? Geno? More like "KO" as the ropes snap in unison! HEY-O!
 

-Coco-

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Along with the Nintendo sponsored quiz during the VGAs the Geno thread showed me where Geno's part of one of the questions. Like I said, it's all these dumb little coincidences and nods to "hey, this guy has a fanbase" and yet, here we are, 13 years later. At least Isaac got the sweet release of death with a cool Mii costume, an assist trophy, and a backdoor answer from NoA about why he wasn't playable.

Shin Chie Shin Chie Let's be real, there is no "next time." If he's not in Ultimate, it's just over. Period. Even if it wasn't, this is probably going to be the only Smash game with no cuts so his chance to be part of the most complete game in the series would make it more or less an empty victory.
Link to the backdoor answer? First time I've heard of this.
 

Nemuresu

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Dragon Quest didn't invent JRPGs. If anything, D&D did. Even if DQ is the "grandfather of JRPGs," does that really mean anything for Smash, or even Nintendo?
Yes, yes it does. That's what he explained when asked why Cloud was included:
But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are.
If they really cared about getting the history of video games totally represented, then we'd have a playable character from Tetris, and Pong wouldn't just be an assist trophy.
Not to mention, Source Gaming has just revealed that Alucard was at the very least, considered as Castlevania's rep:
...A lot of players would probably be most familiar with Alucard, but fans would probably prefer one of the Belmonts—even though they’re unrelated to the later games in the series
That should make it clear that fame does take precedence over everything else when it comes to third parties, and that the ones that didn't make it through that are either exceptions for a good reason (Snake was favour to Kojima, Bayonetta won a popularity contest, Simon because he preferred to listen to listen to fans' tastes and Richter because he wanted a 2-in-1 combo).

If they really cared about getting the history of video games totally represented, then we'd have a playable character from Tetris, and Pong wouldn't just be an assist trophy
Tetris and Pong are just a bunch of pixels that represent a block and a tennis racket, of course those can't work in Smash unless you think too hard on them, and Piranha Plant isn't meant to be a rule on that. Erdrick is character with a character with enough features to work a moveset out.
 

TheCJBrine

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According to Source Gaming, Castlevania did well on the Smash Ballot (so I assume it was a Final Fantasy situation with different characters).
 
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Ovaltine

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Geno fans are all phoning in on suicide hotline as we speak
Come on, let's not be like that. Mockery over understandably upset fans is pretty tasteless, especially since this was directly after Fatman's post. Speaking of...


In the end, if Geno's not in Ultimate, we basically wasted 13 years of our lives and we're a joke as a fanbase and individuals but, hey, we still have another year to wait before we decide to bite down on the ol' cyanide capsule that's been standard issue since 2008. Maybe we'll do a coordinated mass hanging on Twitch come next December, amirite? Geno? More like "KO" as the ropes snap in unison! HEY-O!
Dude, I'm really sad about it myself, but... I'm... really starting to worry for you. You gonna be okay? Do you need to someone to talk to? My lines are always open if you need a shoulder. Not gonna start power-leveling here, but I've dealt with suicide far too many times to know signs of instability and something awry...
 

Shin Chie

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I ain't a geno boy smh.

Dragon Quest didn't invent JRPGs. If anything, D&D did. Even if DQ is the "grandfather of JRPGs," does that really mean anything for Smash, or even Nintendo? If they really cared about getting the history of video games totally represented, then we'd have a playable character from Tetris, and Pong wouldn't just be an assist trophy. What reason does Nintendo have to pick Erdrick? Name one good reason. There isn't one. "Advertising" has never really done much for franchises from Smash. Fire Emblem is a great example, it never sold well because of Smash, it sold well because they advertised it elsewhere. If Nintendo went to Square for Geno or Sora, and they said no, (which did not happen, apparently nobody has ever said no to nintendo on Smash) they wouldn't say "alright we'll settle for Erdrick." They'd give up and pick someone that isn't SE.
D&D and Ultima provided the basis for ALL RPGs. Dragon Quest is the game that defined and invented the JRPG we know today. Also yes, this does mean a lot for Nintendo. Dragon Quest primarily was for Nintendo consoles and made Nintendo a TON of money. It moved to Sony consoles a few times but so did Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, etc. Also again, this series is one of the biggest things in Japan and has stayed that way for decades. It's safe to say it has a huge possibility because of that. Also to say advertising in Smash has done nothing is a flat out lie and you know it. It introduced Fire Emblem to American audiences. Without this introduction, Awakening would've never sold well. Period. The franchise would be dead right now. Plus, there's nothing wrong with the advertising part of it. Third Parties aren't just some creative decision, they're also a business decision from Nintendo. They open up opportunities for stuff with other companies. Erdrick is a cool character to add because of his legacy and he would have a pretty cool moveset and at the end of the day who cares if it was for advertising if he's cool? Hell, you mention Sora, but Sora would fall under that too. He'd be advertising to promote KH3. I can get if you don't want the character nor care. Like I really don't care. But some of you guys are going overboard with this reaction about it. If Erdrick comes out, you're all gonna forget about this and play him anyway.
 

PrettyIvyPearls22

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Geno fans are all phoning in on suicide hotline as we speak
It's quite sad, this whole thread is becoming depressing. I didn't think it would come to the point where it would end up becoming this bad. The reactions are just becoming exaggerating, and it's over a leak that THAT WE STILL DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REAL. It's everyone is throwiwng away the towel. Like chill out guys! Let's remind ourselves that for what it seems like, no one really knows the DLC, and the leakers are already on thin ice, they will be even more so, especially if this DLC Pack 2 doesn't end up being real. Most of them are putting all of their chips in on this one, it could still slip them up in the end. At least that should give you some bit of hope!
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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INot true. Geno is the most highly requested 3rd party character in Japan by most polls. Even when he's not the most requested, he's really high up there. The only place Geno's fanbase is smaller is Europe, since they didn't get SMRPG until virtual console.



I'm pretty indifferent towards Isaac, but I think if he used his large glowy push hands and earthquakes in his trailer, he wouldn't get as much backlash. "Anime swordsman" is something that only bothers people when they have nothing unique like that. See: Shulk. I'm still unconvinced Erdrick could be unique at all.
What are your sources for Geno's Japanese performance? The Perception of Smash DLC in Japan Redux "poll" from Sourcegaming looks good, but it's a very small collection of votes from a small variety of Japanese websites and Geno only has 51 votes, which is hardly the amount of support he garners over here. His performance looks good in this poll, until you realize that it's actually a list of the most anticipated characters and not requested (there's a difference), and that any spot below #5 is an indiscriminate honorable mention, which puts Geno in the same area as characters like Sans and Goku (this one speaks for itself). That's also not counting the original Perception of Smash DLC in Japan "poll" or Chronobound's Observations on the Japanese Fanbase's Desires for Smash 4, both of which have Geno ranked in C Tier or below for amount of requests. Compare this to Geno getting 13,702 votes in r/SmashBros' Newcomer Fighter Poll, with the interesting statistic that "Isaac receives considerably more support from Europe than from the US, while Geno's support stems almost exclusively from the US."

I'm not saying that he has nonexistent support in Japan, but he is far from the most popular third party character over there.
It's quite sad, this whole thread is becoming depressing. I didn't think it would come to the point where it would end up becoming this bad. The reactions are just becoming exaggerating, it's over a leak that THAT WE STILL DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REAL. It's everyone is throwiwng away the towel. Like chill out guys! Let's remind ourselves that for what it seems like, no one really knows the DLC, and the leakers are already on thin ice, they will be even more so, especially if this DLC Pack 2 doesn't end up being real. Most of them are putting all of their chips in on this one, it could still slip them up in the end. At least that should give you some bit of hope!
Who claimed that there'd be a second DLC Pack? Are you talking about if Erdrick isn't the SE rep? I mean, even Polar and Verge are leaning into this one (though they haven't gone all in yet like Hitagi and xeno), and for once all four are in agreement over something, so it's safe to assume that it could be real.
 
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Shin Chie

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Along with the Nintendo sponsored quiz during the VGAs the Geno thread showed me where Geno's part of one of the questions. Like I said, it's all these dumb little coincidences and nods to "hey, this guy has a fanbase" and yet, here we are, 13 years later. At least Isaac got the sweet release of death with a cool Mii costume, an assist trophy, and a backdoor answer from NoA about why he wasn't playable.

Shin Chie Shin Chie Let's be real, there is no "next time." If he's not in Ultimate, it's just over. Period. Even if it wasn't, this is probably going to be the only Smash game with no cuts so his chance to be part of the most complete game in the series would make it more or less an empty victory.
You just gotta have hope dude. For example, Mega Man is my favorite franchise of all time. I'm sure you know what happened with that. Years of nothing. I was angry and upset at it, but I had hope that one day my favorite blue robot would return. Then Smash happened, then MM11, then now probably X9. You just gotta have hope dude. One day Nintendo will do something with Geno. There's no way they wouldn't.
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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Yes, yes it does. That's what he explained when asked why Cloud was included:


Not to mention, Source Gaming has just revealed that Alucard was at the very least, considered as Castlevania's rep:

That should make it clear that fame does take precedence over everything else when it comes to third parties, and that the ones that didn't make it through that are either exceptions for a good reason (Snake was favour to Kojima, Bayonetta won a popularity contest, Simon because he preferred to listen to listen to fans' tastes and Richter because he wanted a 2-in-1 combo).


Tetris and Pong are just a bunch of pixels that represent a block and a tennis racket, of course those can't work in Smash unless you think too hard on them, and Piranha Plant isn't meant to be a rule on that. Erdrick is character with a character with enough features to work a moveset out.
So what you're telling me is that Erdrick shouldn't get in, because nobody asked for him, and very little people know who he is. Instead, we should be getting a character like Cloud or Alucard or Richter, who are the fan-favorites asked for in Smash, and are popular characters. Bayonetta didn't actually win the ballot, by the way. She won "out of realizable characters" and every poll ever shows her (at best) in like 5th to 10th place.

Simon placed really high on the ballot. Y'know who never appeared in any ballot polls at all, anywhere? Erdrick. Y'know who did? Geno, Sora, and Chrono.

D&D and Ultima provided the basis for ALL RPGs. Dragon Quest is the game that defined and invented the JRPG we know today. Also yes, this does mean a lot for Nintendo. Dragon Quest primarily was for Nintendo consoles and made Nintendo a TON of money. It moved to Sony consoles a few times but so did Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, etc. Also again, this series is one of the biggest things in Japan and has stayed that way for decades. It's safe to say it has a huge possibility because of that. Also to say advertising in Smash has done nothing is a flat out lie and you know it. It introduced Fire Emblem to American audiences. Without this introduction, Awakening would've never sold well. Period. The franchise would be dead right now. Plus, there's nothing wrong with the advertising part of it. Third Parties aren't just some creative decision, they're also a business decision from Nintendo. They open up opportunities for stuff with other companies. Erdrick is a cool character to add because of his legacy and he would have a pretty cool moveset and at the end of the day who cares if it was for advertising if he's cool? Hell, you mention Sora, but Sora would fall under that too. He'd be advertising to promote KH3. I can get if you don't want the character nor care. Like I really don't care. But some of you guys are going overboard with this reaction about it. If Erdrick comes out, you're all gonna forget about this and play him anyway.
(you could really use with some line breaks, it's hard to read walls of text.)

If Smash did so much for Fire Emblem, how come it took until Awakening to do it? The series was dying after Melee and Brawl, which both introduced FE characters.

Erdrick's moveset is going to be, at best, a guy who can use a sword and shield, maybe some other weapon types, and shoot fire and electricity. That really does not sound like a "pretty cool moveset" to me. I'm not saying Nintendo isn't going to advertise, either. I'm saying, why should Nintendo want to advertise DQ? They wouldn't, is the thing. Advertising DQ really only benefits SE. If Erdrick has such a "legacy" like you claim, then why have I literally never heard his name before he came up as a possible Square rep from this?

Also, I'm still waiting on the good reason for NINTENDO to pick him over anyone else.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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So what you're telling me is that Erdrick shouldn't get in, because nobody asked for him, and very little people know who he is. Instead, we should be getting a character like Cloud or Alucard or Richter, who are the fan-favorites asked for in Smash, and are popular characters. Bayonetta didn't actually win the ballot, by the way. She won "out of realizable characters" and every poll ever shows her (at best) in like 5th to 10th place.

Simon placed really high on the ballot. Y'know who never appeared in any ballot polls at all, anywhere? Erdrick. Y'know who did? Geno, Sora, and Chrono.
Castlevania (not just Simon) placed high in the official Ballot, but never placed well in fan polls. Similarly, Dragon Quest could have performed very well in the Ballot, but never in fan polls.

Fan polls are indicators of what the Smash Bros./gaming community wants, not hard evidence towards or against a specific character. We'll never know who performed well on the official Ballot unless Sakurai tells us, and it's not safe to assume Ballot performance based on fan polls.

There is a silent, casual fanbase outside of online communities such as this, and it's not wise to underestimate the power they have in official polls like the Ballot.
 
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PrettyIvyPearls22

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Who claimed that there'd be a second DLC Pack? Are you talking about if Erdrick isn't the SE rep? I mean, even Polar and Verge are leaning into this one (though they haven't gone all in yet like Hitagi and xeno), and for once all four are in agreement over something, so it's safe to assume that it could be real.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about the character pack for Pack 2, and that whole thing was trying to calm people down, and try to give some people some bit of hope. If the insiders still end up being wrong again about this character pack, at least it would still give people some bit of hope hold on to. Only half the info from that leak is real so far, and that's just the Granblue thing.

It's not helping that everyone just seem like they're slowly starting to loose it, if it really ends up being Erdrick.
 

Nemuresu

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So what you're telling me is that Erdrick shouldn't get in, because nobody asked for him, and very little people know who he is. Instead, we should be getting a character like Cloud or Alucard or Richter, who are the fan-favorites asked for in Smash, and are popular characters.
Cloud? Most people didn't see it coming because they thought Smash would limit itself to characters with strong ties to Nintendo, despite claims that he was the most requested FF character. Alucard? Maybe, but he'd be in a similar position to Cloud. Richter? Definitely not the case.

Simon placed really high on the ballot. Y'know who never appeared in any ballot polls at all, anywhere? Erdrick. Y'know who did? Geno, Sora, and Chrono.
Joker wasn't a thing when the Ballot happened and now he's in. They aren't influenced by polls.

why should Nintendo want to advertise DQ? They wouldn't, is the thing. Advertising DQ really only benefits SE.

Also, I'm still waiting on the good reason for NINTENDO to pick him over anyone else.
Perhaps it is because they can get fans from said franchise to see him in action and buy Smash and his DLC (or maybe even the whole pass)?
 

Shin Chie

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So what you're telling me is that Erdrick shouldn't get in, because nobody asked for him, and very little people know who he is. Instead, we should be getting a character like Cloud or Alucard or Richter, who are the fan-favorites asked for in Smash, and are popular characters. Bayonetta didn't actually win the ballot, by the way. She won "out of realizable characters" and every poll ever shows her (at best) in like 5th to 10th place.

Simon placed really high on the ballot. Y'know who never appeared in any ballot polls at all, anywhere? Erdrick. Y'know who did? Geno, Sora, and Chrono.



(you could really use with some line breaks, it's hard to read walls of text.)

If Smash did so much for Fire Emblem, how come it took until Awakening to do it? The series was dying after Melee and Brawl, which both introduced FE characters.

Erdrick's moveset is going to be, at best, a guy who can use a sword and shield, maybe some other weapon types, and shoot fire and electricity. That really does not sound like a "pretty cool moveset" to me. I'm not saying Nintendo isn't going to advertise, either. I'm saying, why should Nintendo want to advertise DQ? They wouldn't, is the thing. Advertising DQ really only benefits SE. If Erdrick has such a "legacy" like you claim, then why have I literally never heard his name before he came up as a possible Square rep from this?

Also, I'm still waiting on the good reason for NINTENDO to pick him over anyone else.
While the series was dying after Smash Melee and Brawl, there's no doubt that in America, apart of peoples' incentive to buy Awakening was because of their introduction to the series through Smash. Plus, you've never heard of Erdrick because Dragon Quest outside of a few games hasn't been the most popular in America and Europe. But, Dragon Quest is the #1 most popular series in Japan. No contest to it. It's a huge phenomenon there and has a huge legacy there. It's a shame that it isn't popular here because they're amazing games from what I've seen. But, anywho, in terms of moveset. I'm not too sure myself, I'm not the biggest Dragon Quest fan. But I did ask my friend who is huge into it and the stuff he's described sounds cool. Like he talked about possibilities of Erdrick being based around summoning monsters like the Slimes and stuff. I'm sure someone who knows a lot more than me could think of a moveset, but I can't lol. From what I've heard, he sounds like he'd be a really cool character with a huge legacy behind him and I'm all for it.
 

lordvaati

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Dragon Quest III is the best selling game in the series in Japan and responsible for the infamous incident of several students skipping school to buy the thing and getting arrested for it. It is to fans of that series the equivalent of what FFVII is to many fans(for better or for worse depending on who you ask), and had it's 30th anniversary this year.

people are really sleeping hard on them and the series not being big in the West John is irrelevant because freaking Lucas.
 
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ChronoBound

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In the end, if Geno's not in Ultimate, we basically wasted 13 years of our lives and we're a joke as a fanbase and individuals but, hey, we still have another year to wait before we decide to bite down on the ol' cyanide capsule that's been standard issue since 2008. Maybe we'll do a coordinated mass hanging on Twitch come next December, amirite? Geno? More like "KO" as the ropes snap in unison! HEY-O!
Listen man. Ridley was my single most wanted character for nearly 20 years of my life, and after 2014 I thought I would never get to play as him in an official Smash Bros. game (I thought Sakurai's words on Ridley being too big were basically the end of the dream).

I thought Smash 4 was the end of the line (it was worse that I was among the few Ridley fans who saw the writing on the wall back in mid-2014, and I tried to warn other Ridley fans that he was deconfirmed for Smash 4). With pre-Melee, I thought it was because Metroid still was a series on hiatus even though two games were in development at the time. With pre-Brawl, I felt so many other big Nintendo characters were "ahead in line" before Ridley. With Smash 4, I was really bewildered. Only when Sakurai said his thoughts on Ridley that I felt it was probably never going to happen (or at least until Sakurai retired from the series). I surmised by the time that did happen, I would be at the age where I would have little time for gaming and/or little interest.

I still wanted to play as Ridley in Smash Bros. mind you, but I thought an official title was no longer in the cards. I never bought a Wii U (I did get Smash 4 on the 3DS though), so I basically felt that between Smash 4 3DS and Project M I had the definitive Smash 4 experience. I felt at least through fan mods I could enjoy Ridley in Smash Bros., and I was actually content with this. After Roy's confirmation for Smash 4 DLC (which was also a miracle in it of itself), I basically stopped posting on SmashBoards for three years.

I felt I was truly done with Smash Bros. at that point.

Honestly, it was Smash Switch getting announced so soon after the end of Smash 4 DLC, that I even had a curiosity about this title. When Vergeben's rumors started popping up about Ridley, I did not believe them simply because EVERY leak that ever had Ridley always ended up being fake to the point where if I saw a leak with Ridley in it, I instantly felt it was a red flag about its lack of legitimacy (I did want to believe it though considering he was also saying that there would be no cuts and that Simon Belmont would also be added in).

It was a miracle for Ultimate to turn out the way it did. I know many in this topic are bashing spirits, but for a few Nintendo characters that I really like but would most likely never be made playable (Pico and Leaf/Leif), Spirits at least gave those characters an event match to call their own and even made neat references about their background and source material in them (like how in Pico's spirit battle Death Wind is the music playing in the background, which is said to be his home planet). Spirits give even the most minor of Nintendo characters an opportunity to have a little spotlight, and actually have cute little references to the characters in the matches themselves.

We have no idea what the direction for the next game is going to be, however, if there is one lesson to be learned from the Ultimate epoch, it is nothing is guaranteed. Who would have thought a year ago that Ridley, Dark Samus, Chrom, and Castlevania characters would be newcomers for this game, or that EVERY single character in the history of the series would come back, even Young Link? Or two months ago that Piranha Plant would be an unique Mario newcomer for this game?

A few months ago, the conventional belief was that Incineroar was too boring to be selected as the Pokemon newcomer, and that Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc were all far more likely? Now look at what happened. Many ended up being endeared by Incineroar's pro-wrestler persona as well.

Throughout this cycle there have been many characters that people said were "shoe-ins" that did not happen. It began with Rex & Pyrra and Spring Man (when Sakurai said the design document was submitted in December 2015, that was what poured cold water on those characters). Then when the game was actually unveiled, most people thought that Ashley and Shadow were practically confirmed. When K. Rool was confirmed, many thought the same for Isaac and Geno.

In life, there is no such thing as guarantees, and unfortunately, even when something looks very promising, you have to keep your expectations in check, even if in your heart you want to believe that the outcome you want is what is going to happen.

It is possible we get more DLC after February 2020, just as much as its possible we simply do not get a new character confirmed for the series until a few years later.

Even if Geno is not playable in Ultimate, he will still very likely have the fantastic Mii costume he received return.

He is a nearly 22 year old one-shot character. It is very understandable why he is not playable, much like why Isaac is not playable (as it stands, Golden Sun actually has more content in Ultimate than any other Smash Bros. game despite the series's heyday being 15 years ago). However, even still, we do not know what the future holds for these characters (they could show up in future titles in their respective series) or the next Smash Bros. goes in a direction amicable to their inclusion even if the characters are far older with no new source material to work with.

Personally, even if Crono (probably my favorite non-Nintendo character not yet in Smash Bros.) showed up as a Mii costume, I would be absolutely elated because the character has not had anything major happen with him or his property since the 2008 DS port of Chrono Trigger, and it would still be a way to play as the character alongside all my other favorite gaming characters. I really like Crono, but I understand even despite all the accolades and praise Chrono Trigger has (it still is considered among the best games of all time), he is still a character from a single title released nearly 24 years ago.
 
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Fatmanonice

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Come on, let's not be like that. Mockery over understandably upset fans is pretty tasteless, especially since this was directly after Fatman's post. Speaking of...



Dude, I'm really sad about it myself, but... I'm... really starting to worry for you. You gonna be okay? Do you need to someone to talk to? My lines are always open if you need a shoulder. Not gonna start power-leveling here, but I've dealt with suicide far too many times to know signs of instability and something awry...
I'm largely having fun with it. Rummy scolded me for it the other day. I've been depressed to some degree since I was 9 so it's just kind of who I am. Black humor with no brakes. I'm actually cracking up at my own posts because I'm deliberately being over the top and melodramatic. It's funny to me because it is wonderfully ridiculous and, as others have said, it all means literally nothing at the end of the day. It's a game. We'll live with our varying degrees of disappointment because god knows there's more legitimate reasons to figuratively and literally look down the barrel of a gun.
 

AugustusB

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Soooo...What happened here?

So now the big insiders are (somewhat) certain its Erdrick being the Square Rep?

Was it from that one leak that went into detail about the 1st DLC pack: Joker with Mementos stage and Jack Frost being in the stage?

Then the DLC pack 2 with Erdrick with his stage and Slime being in the stage?

If I missed something let me know...because that seems kind of a load of BS to me.

IF Mementos was the Stage for Joker, I would think The Reaper would be the Stage hazard listed as oppose to the safe Jack Frost, because "Hey, thats the Persona mascot!"
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I'm talking about the character pack for Pack 2, and that whole thing was trying to calm people down, and try to give some people some bit of hope. If the insiders still end up being wrong again about this character pack, at least it would still give people some bit of hope hold on to. Only half the info from that leak is real so far, and that's just the Granblue thing.

It's not helping that everyone just seem like they're slowly starting to loose it, if it really ends up being Erdrick.
I see that and raise you this:
Speculation isn't some game where whoever makes the best arguments gets their character in the game. Its purpose is literally to set expectations properly. Our discussions have zero effect on the inevitable outcome, what we're discussing is a Schrdinger's Fighter whose fate we believe to be able to change.
If you don't like speculating because it's "hopeless" then you're a) missing the point of it; b) only seeing it from your perspective(because every character has fans, no ons will make everyone disappointed).
If you din't like these things, no one is forcing you to speculate, you can just do whatever else you want.

I also find the thought process that every ounce of speculation is dead and no possibilities remain to be discussed to be an exaggeration and the true pessimism when the only thing out of unrevealed content that's 99% set in stone is the Square character(not to mention we know only that Joker is in the gane and have no idea how he functions and what stage and music he brings with him).
There are still other 3 characters with no leaks pointing one way or another. If you dislike a speculation whose conclusion is foregone, go speculate over those characters instead.
There's plenty of hope and fun to be had in speculation, but in regards to the Square Enix character tempering expectations now isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Perhaps it is because they can get fans from said franchise to see him in action and buy Smash and his DLC (or maybe even the whole pass)?
This is an important factor for this round of DLC that I feel people are underestimating. A single character can have a lot of power, especially if they're from a big franchise like Dragon Quest or Minecraft.
Soooo...What happened here?

So now the big insiders are (somewhat) certain its Erdrick being the Square Rep?

Was it from that one leak that went into detail about the 1st DLC pack: Joker with Mementos stage and Jack Frost being in the stage?

Then the DLC pack 2 with Erdrick with his stage and Slime being in the stage?

If I missed something let me know...because that seems kind of a load of BS to me.

IF Mementos was the Stage for Joker, I would think The Reaper would be the Stage hazard listed as oppose to the safe Jack Frost, because "Hey, thats the Persona mascot!"
Essentially it's the fact that the 2chan leak predicted some things we now know to be true (GranBlue fighting game by ArcSys, which had only been going around in small, Western communities so it's unlikely that someone from Japan would know about that as it would take a lot of effort) and lines up with what our current insiders have heard. Hitagi and xeno went all in, and Polar and Verge are leaning into it, but waiting for further confirmation.
 
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Dynamic Worlok

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I want to believe that nintendo will pick us a cool fan favorite character, (even if it's not geno) but then I remember that nintendo made 3 donkey konga games.
 

lordvaati

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I want to believe that nintendo will pick us a cool fan favorite character, (even if it's not geno) but then I remember that nintendo made 3 donkey konga games.
One of those was Jungle Beat though, which is the most underrated GC game ever so yah.
 

Ovaltine

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I'm largely having fun with it. Rummy scolded me for it the other day. I've been depressed to some degree since I was 9 so it's just kind of who I am. Black humor with no brakes. I'm actually cracking up at my own posts because I'm deliberately being over the top and melodramatic. It's funny to me because it is wonderfully ridiculous and, as others have said, it all means literally nothing at the end of the day. It's a game. We'll live with our varying degrees of disappointment because god knows there's more legitimate reasons to figuratively and literally look down the barrel of a gun.
Haha, you know, I've had major depression since I was 12, so... I can feel that. That's relieving to know, at least. Still, my lines are always open if you need an ear to just unload some steam onto, or if you want to pop a round of those cyanide tablets with someone. :4pacman:
 

REZERO

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>That should make it clear that fame does take precedence over everything else when it comes to third parties, and that the ones that didn't make it through that are either exceptions for a good reason (Snake was favour to Kojima, Bayonetta won a popularity contest, Simon because he preferred to listen to listen to fans' tastes and Richter because he wanted a 2-in-1 combo).

No actually it doesn't mean that fame takes precedence.

Sakura said:
This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.
The above states that one of the reasons Cloud was chosen to represent Square Enix at the time of SM4SH is because he was popular in the polls. In this case it was not because of fame but what the target audience wanted.

If fame really took precedence, the smash roster would be much bigger. Sakurai has different reasons for putting a character in, fame being one of them but not the reason he puts them in.

>Not to mention, Source Gaming has just revealed that Alucard was at the very least, considered as Castlevania's rep:


Also why are you linking a twitter link as a source for Alucard? His assist tropy means he was considered but in no way is that to be used as a source for why he was not a selectable character. Did Sakurai come out and say why he did not choose Alucard? That's the real question people need to be asking. Sakurai heavily emphasizes moveset and playstyle when he's thinking about characters too, there is a plethora of reasons he would not put Alucard in.

>Tetris and Pong are just a bunch of pixels that represent a block and a tennis racket, of course those can't work in Smash unless you think too hard on them, and Piranha Plant isn't meant to be a rule on that. Erdrick is character with a character with enough features to work a moveset out.

Yeah I agree with that, you can't make a moveset with any of those.

If Sakurai really wanted to pick historical characters how come we don't see Master Chief or Banjo? There's a million reasons to pick a character and to not pick a character.
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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Castlevania (not just Simon) placed high in the official Ballot, but never placed well in fan polls. Similarly, Dragon Quest could have performed very well in the Ballot, but never in fan polls.

Fan polls are indicators of what the Smash Bros./gaming community wants, not hard evidence towards or against a specific character. We'll never know who performed well on the official Ballot unless Sakurai tells us, and it's not safe to assume Ballot performance based on fan polls.
I'm talking specifically about BALLOT polls, in which Simon was pretty high. Fan polls, I don't know. We have evidence aside from Sakurai's word that Simon was highly requested. Richter was likely just low enough to slip under the radar, but still there, and was only added because Simon was already being added. If tons of people sent in various characters with "Castlevania in Smash" as a reason, then that's all they really needed. MOST of those votes were obviously for Simon, because outside of CV fans, Simon is the only one people really know about. I'm not talking about fan polls at all most of the time, just polls about "who did you vote for on the ballot." (I'll probably say ballot polls vs fan polls or something like that)

Cloud? Most people didn't see it coming because they thought Smash would limit itself to characters with strong ties to Nintendo, despite claims that he was the most requested FF character. Alucard? Maybe, but he'd be in a similar position to Cloud. Richter? Definitely not the case.


Joker wasn't a thing when the Ballot happened and now he's in. They aren't influenced by polls.


Perhaps it is because they can get fans from said franchise to see him in action and buy Smash and his DLC (or maybe even the whole pass)?
They didn't see it coming, but they still asked for it. People wanted it. When Sakurai sees a ton of votes for Simon, with most of them saying "we want Castlevania in smash" or something along those lines, he might think that everyone is only saying Simon because they think he's most realistic (which is likely the case for a lot of Castlevania fans) so he considered Alucard and Richter, more popular characters in the series.

They ARE influenced by polls, and you're crazy to think otherwise when we got both King K Rool and Ridley. Joker wasn't in the ballot, but he was definitely talked about a lot after Persona 5.

Haha, you know, I've had major depression since I was 12, so... I can feel that. That's relieving to know, at least. Still, my lines are always open if you need an ear to just unload some steam onto, or if you want to pop a round of those cyanide tablets with someone. :4pacman:
[Disappointed Drake Face] Sertraline

[Approving Drake Face] Cyanide
 

TheCJBrine

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Soooo...What happened here?

So now the big insiders are (somewhat) certain its Erdrick being the Square Rep?

Was it from that one leak that went into detail about the 1st DLC pack: Joker with Mementos stage and Jack Frost being in the stage?

Then the DLC pack 2 with Erdrick with his stage and Slime being in the stage?

If I missed something let me know...because that seems kind of a load of BS to me.

IF Mementos was the Stage for Joker, I would think The Reaper would be the Stage hazard listed as oppose to the safe Jack Frost, because "Hey, thats the Persona mascot!"
I thought Jack Frost and Slime were part of their movesets...?
 

AugustusB

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I thought Jack Frost and Slime were part of their movesets...?
The exact quote I have seen is "Slime appears on screen with a skill" and for Jack Frost "Jack Frost appears on screen"

It is an incredibly vague and safe thing to put. I assumed Stage Hazard. You assume in their moveset.

Lord I hate that way of wording, because now if Joker has a moveset that involves Jack Frost or is on the Stage, the guy can go "Yo I called it"
 
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Fatmanonice

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A lot of what I'm hearing is "you need to let go, you goddamn man-child. Geno's dead." It's like Miss Havisham in Great Expectations I suppose, but instead of a rotting wedding cake it's a Super Nintendo.
 

GoodGrief741

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It's not stupid to call it that, because Edrick is sort of in the same boat as Corrin was, only this time change promoting the game to the franchise in general. Therefore, he is a shill pick and a big one at that.

Snake was in only because he was doing a friend a favor. It's commonly known that Snake got in because Kojima asked him since his son wanted to play Snake in Smash Bros.

Sure, Bayonetta and Belmont have something to promote (especially the former), but they are at least known worldwide. Dragon Quest for the majority of the west is a literal who.

I don't think everyone is in because of a love of the craft. But that doesn't make something like Dragon Quest less shill then it is. Especially when Square has someone like Sora who would be more hype worldwide.

I'm not saying that Ederick should not get in. He has fans, and it's awesome for them if he does get in. But acting like the reason that he is in for the fans, all things considered, is what I call naive
100% guaranteed that more people in the West know Dragon Quest than they do Bayonetta.

Also, define what a shill pick is for you. I’m curious.

I ain't a geno boy smh.

Dragon Quest didn't invent JRPGs. If anything, D&D did. Even if DQ is the "grandfather of JRPGs," does that really mean anything for Smash, or even Nintendo? If they really cared about getting the history of video games totally represented, then we'd have a playable character from Tetris, and Pong wouldn't just be an assist trophy. What reason does Nintendo have to pick Erdrick? Name one good reason. There isn't one. "Advertising" has never really done much for franchises from Smash. Fire Emblem is a great example, it never sold well because of Smash, it sold well because they advertised it elsewhere. If Nintendo went to Square for Geno or Sora, and they said no, (which did not happen, apparently nobody has ever said no to nintendo on Smash) they wouldn't say "alright we'll settle for Erdrick." They'd give up and pick someone that isn't SE.



Not true. Geno is the most highly requested 3rd party character in Japan by most polls. Even when he's not the most requested, he's really high up there. The only place Geno's fanbase is smaller is Europe, since they didn't get SMRPG until virtual console.



I'm pretty indifferent towards Isaac, but I think if he used his large glowy push hands and earthquakes in his trailer, he wouldn't get as much backlash. "Anime swordsman" is something that only bothers people when they have nothing unique like that. See: Shulk. I'm still unconvinced Erdrick could be unique at all.
>D&D, the American tabletop strategy RPG, invented Japanese turn based RPGs. Brilliant.

>If Nintendo really cared about representing gaming history, they’d have added characters from series without characters. There are several interviews where Sakurai claims to care about gaming history, both in and outside the context of Smash.

>What reason does Nintendo have to pick Erdrick? I’ll give you two: representing an important facet of gaming history and being an incredibly hype reveal for an entire market.
 

EarlTamm

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The exact quote I have seen is "Slime appears on screen with a skill" and for Jack Frost "Jack Frost appears on screen"

It is an incredibly vague and safe thing to put. I assumed Stage Hazard. You assume in their moveset.

Lord I hate that way of wording, because now if Joker has a moveset that involves Jack Frost or is on the Stage, the guy can go "Yo I called it"
I mean, it's not that bad. It's not like Jack Frost is the mascot or any- OH WAIT.
 
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TheCJBrine

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The exact quote I have seen is "Slime appears on screen with a skill" and for Jack Frost "Jack Frost appears on screen"

It is an incredibly vague and safe thing to put. I assumed Stage Hazard. You assume in their moveset.

Lord I hate that way of wording, because now if Joker has a moveset that involves Jack Frost or is on the Stage, the guy can go "Yo I called it"
I don't know, I've just read posts here saying that Erdick could summon Slime, and I think someone mentioned Joker and Jack Frost.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I'm talking specifically about BALLOT polls, in which Simon was pretty high. Fan polls, I don't know. We have evidence aside from Sakurai's word that Simon was highly requested. Richter was likely just low enough to slip under the radar, but still there, and was only added because Simon was already being added. If tons of people sent in various characters with "Castlevania in Smash" as a reason, then that's all they really needed. MOST of those votes were obviously for Simon, because outside of CV fans, Simon is the only one people really know about. I'm not talking about fan polls at all most of the time, just polls about "who did you vote for on the ballot." (I'll probably say ballot polls vs fan polls or something like that)
You do realize that most fan polls often referred to by speculators were Ballot-era polls, either taking place shortly before or shortly after? There's no difference. Unless you have a specific ballot fan poll (and no, I don't mean the massive image where Simon is one blip in the third party section), there's little backing up your point about Castlevania performing well in "ballot polls."
The exact quote I have seen is "Slime appears on screen with a skill" and for Jack Frost "Jack Frost appears on screen"

It is an incredibly vague and safe thing to put. I assumed Stage Hazard. You assume in their moveset.

Lord I hate that way of wording, because now if Joker has a moveset that involves Jack Frost or is on the Stage, the guy can go "Yo I called it"
It's a rough translation. If someone who can actually translate Japanese well wants to take a crack at it that would likely clear things up.

Man I wish PushDustin was still doing leakbusting.
 
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AugustusB

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