[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[PokéfreakofBACON]

100% guaranteed that more people in the West know Dragon Quest than they do Bayonetta.

Also, define what a shill pick is for you. I’m curious.



>D&D, the American tabletop strategy RPG, invented Japanese turn based RPGs. Brilliant.

>If Nintendo really cared about representing gaming history, they’d have added characters from series without characters. There are several interviews where Sakurai claims to care about gaming history, both in and outside the context of Smash.

>What reason does Nintendo have to pick Erdrick? I’ll give you two: representing an important facet of gaming history and being an incredibly hype reveal for an entire market.

>Incredibly Hype Reveal

>Erdrick

>MFW

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

>Incredibly Hype Reveal

>Erdrick

>MFW

>Incredibly hype reveal FOR AN ENTIRE MARKET
>Referring to the Japanese market and not overall
>Obvious misinterpretation to take a dig at the character
>MFW

 

[TheCJBrine]

Well, if that's a good translation, then I'm afraid Square would actually be pushing Erdick to shill DQ over here, but at least it's not a shill for Japan.

 

[EarlTamm]

people are really sleeping hard on them and the series not being big in the West John is irrelevant because freaking Lucas.

Didnt Sakurai say that Lucas actually would not have been in if he knew the game was not being translated?

 

[GoodGrief741]

>Incredibly Hype Reveal

>Erdrick

>MFW

I was referring to Japan. He’s a break the internet reveal there. If Western audiences could realize they’re not the only ones that products are geared towards, maybe they’d realize why some decisions make sense.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

>Incredibly hype reveal FOR AN ENTIRE MARKET
>Referring to the Japanese market and not overall
>Obvious misinterpretation to take a dig at the character
>MFW

I was kinda memeing, but I don't think Japan would be all that hyped about it either. Sure, the games are popular there, but they'd much rather have Bandana Dee or Crash Bandicoot if anything I've seen means anything.

You do realize that most fan polls often referred to by speculators were Ballot-era polls, either taking place shortly before or shortly after? There's no difference. Unless you have a specific ballot fan poll (and no, I don't mean the massive image where Simon is one blip in the third party section), there's little backing up your point about Castlevania performing well in "ballot polls."

It's a rough translation. If someone who can actually translate Japanese well wants to take a crack at it that would likely clear things up.

Man I wish PushDustin was still doing leakbusting.

Here you go.

 

[Deleted member]

I was kinda memeing, but I don't think Japan would be all that hyped about it either. Sure, the games are popular there, but they'd much rather have Bandana Dee or Crash

But, if I'm not mistaken, Smash isn't as big in Japan as it is outside of it. A Dragon Quest character would bring NEW PEOPLE to the series within its home country. It's not just about satisfying the existing fans but also drawing in new ones.

 

[ChronoBound]

>Not to mention, Source Gaming has just revealed that Alucard was at the very least, considered as Castlevania's rep:

I want to comment on this. Alucard is actually my favorite Castlevania character and one of my favorite non-Nintendo gaming characters in general. However, I do agree that Simon representing the series was the right choice. Even the Metroidvania titles, a Belmont was usually playable after the game was cleared, so its not like whip-wielding protagonists stopped being a thing after Symphony of the Night (even in some of the Metroidvania titles had a whip wielding protagonist from the start like Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, and Portrait of Ruin). As a big Castlevania fan I am very pleased with how the series's representation in Ultimate turned out (Simon as the main rep, Richter as his echo, Alucard as an Assist, Dracula's Castle as a stage featuring a bunch of cameos from classic Castlevania bosses, an item, and over 30 music tracks).

Castlevania even being featured in Smash Bros. was something I considered a "pipe dream" or "unrealistic", and as far as I am concerned another miracle that happened with Ultimate. Most of the "core" fanbase barely discussed this series despite it probably being among the most "deserving" classic gaming franchises not yet in Smash Bros.

 

[Nemuresu]

If fame really took precedence, the smash roster would be much bigger.

Not really. I'm saying fame is a factor for third-parties, not for the entire roster. If that were the case, the roster would be ridiculously small, because there are people who probably don't know who Olimar is, or Mr. Game and Watch, or ROB.

Also why are you linking a twitter link as a source for Alucard?

Because their site hasn't posted it as an article yet, that's why.

His assist tropy means he was considered but in no way is that to be used as a source for why he was not a selectable character. Did Sakurai come out and say why he did not choose Alucard? That's the real question people need to be asking. Sakurai heavily emphasizes moveset and playstyle when he's thinking about characters too, there is a plethora of reasons he would not put Alucard in.

Read the twitt. Why would he even mention Alucard in the same comment about making a Castlevania character if he was always meant to be an assist? In fact, why even say he's more famous than the Belmonts as if it had any kind of importance to the AT? I don't find any reason for that comment to exist unless he was either considered to be a fighter, or that maybe someone in that Famitsu interview asked him about that, but I'm leaning more on the former because there's nothing that suggests someone made that question.

If Sakurai really wanted to pick historical characters how come we don't see Master Chief or Banjo? There's a million reasons to pick a character and to not pick a character.

Perhaps because Square is just a third-party that can make games for Nintendo if they wished to, compared to Microsoft, who is a direct competition? One is much easier to negotiate with than the other.

They ARE influenced by polls, and you're crazy to think otherwise when we got both King K Rool and Ridley. Joker wasn't in the ballot, but he was definitely talked about a lot after Persona 5.

Joker being a trend is still not a poll in any way, which is what you're using to criticize Erdrick's possible inclusion

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Here you go.

Forgot about SSB4Dojo's Consolidation.

Regardless, this doesn't help your point at all. Simon Belmont had 0.77% of the total vote with 665 votes in US/Euro and no votes in Japan. He wasn't even a top contender for the 3rd party vote, having only 2.66% of that.

That's hardly impressive, and not at all indicative of Castlevania's performance in the Ballot as per Sakurai's word.

 

[Nazyrus]

Dragon Quest didn't invent JRPGs. If anything, D&D did. Even if DQ is the "grandfather of JRPGs," does that really mean anything for Smash, or even Nintendo? If they really cared about getting the history of video games totally represented, then we'd have a playable character from Tetris, and Pong wouldn't just be an assist trophy. What reason does Nintendo have to pick Erdrick? Name one good reason. There isn't one. "Advertising" has never really done much for franchises from Smash. Fire Emblem is a great example, it never sold well because of Smash, it sold well because they advertised it elsewhere. If Nintendo went to Square for Geno or Sora, and they said no, (which did not happen, apparently nobody has ever said no to nintendo on Smash) they wouldn't say "alright we'll settle for Erdrick." They'd give up and pick someone that isn't SE.

This.
Nintendo wants to sell the DLC characters to the players, not to those within their staff or a minority in the community that think "oh this character's origin game was important for gaming history, I will buy him because of that reason".

What do players care about characters? Either a) they love the character because it's a cool concept, personality, or whatever honest reason players these days have for wanting a specific character, b) they simply love the game it comes from, c) they love both aspects mentioned before. None of these reasons is because of "what the game did to gaming history as legacy". For example, people are gonna buy Joker because Persona 5 is amazing game and the character is cool and blahblahblah, NOT because it did anything special to gaming at some point in history. So it can be said about ANYONE's favorite here, either already in the roster or yet to be hopefully added as DLC. They will buy the character because they ACTUALLY WANT HIM/HER from a personal perspective, not due to history importance.

If Nintendo wants to add a character that is important to gaming history and not be afraid to lose money on it regardless of the game's current situation (such as DQ in other regions/countries that aren't Japan), they add such character to the BASE ROSTER, they don't risk it for DLC, where people will only spend money what they actually want. Sure, DQ has sold a lot in japan, and that might ensure almost 100% of players there will buy a DQ character, but it's never a big win if only such DLC character will sell well in their home land and still badly on other regions/countries ( 2,3,4,5,6 etc > 1, so it doesn't matter if it sells well in japan, there will be a loss if it doesn't sell well EVERYWHERE).

I have nothing against Eldrick, nor DQ, but let's be real here already and stop giving "legacy in gaming history" such a strong point for why a character is a good idea for DLC, cause it's not the honest reason why we all players buy a DLC character in the end, we just don't buy a character simply because of THAT. Me personally, I'm buying all characters because i like to have a full game to play with, it's always been that for me, and that's an honest reason i can see many other players will have for actually buying Erdrick, NOT because DQ was such a big deal to the genre in gaming, lol. And this can be applied to any franchise from any other company, it's not a personal bias against DQ or SE or whatever, we're actually being objective here.

A decision that makes sense in sales would be a character that sells well in more than one region. It's dumb to just make a character DLC to sell well just in japan and do terrible in the rest of places. You want DLC to sell for a game worldwide? Make worldwide choices. We can recognize all we want that DQ sells well in Japan, that still won't change the reality of sales in paper when they see that a DQ character only sold well in japan. If they want to make money the best way possible, the best take is to focus on worldwide picks, not a specific region's picks. Edit: Joker is a good example of this, a franchise/game (persona 5) that is beloved everywhere, hence why the reaction worldwide was amazing and people feel likely to buy the season pass because of him. You wouldn't see this happen with a character that is only highly beloved in one region and minimally beloved everywhere else.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Joker being a trend is still not a poll in any way, which is what you're using to criticize Erdrick's possible inclusion

If Erdrick were talked about at all after the poll, you'd be right. He wasn't though.

 

[AugustusB]

You know thinking on this with a fresh mind, any of the potential Square Characters markets pretty well. Or at least these two.

Geno would be for the Smash Fan Base.

Erdrick would be for the Eastern (Home) Audience.

In all honesty, in Sm4sh, was there a Japanese driven pick for DLC? Could probably argue Corrin, but IDK...

 

[TheCJBrine]

Welp, funny, I started feeling bad about Erdick because, if the leak is true, then it seemed to mean Square actually did just want to shill DQ.

But, then I remembered, Nintendo is the master here, which fixed my issues right up.

Funny how my mind works sometimes.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If Erdrick were talked about at all after the poll, you'd be right. He wasn't though.

Joker wasn't really talked about that much after the Ballot though. As a Joker supporter, I would know. I was pretty much the guy who introduced Joker support to the General thread and I was often be dismissed because Joker would never happen.

This.
Nintendo wants to sell the DLC characters to the players, not to those within their staff or a minority in the community that think "oh this character's origin game was important for gaming history, I will buy him because of that reason".

What do players care about characters? Either a) they love the character because it's a cool concept, personality, or whatever honest reason players these days have for wanting a specific character, b) they simply love the game it comes from, c) they love both aspects mentioned before. None of these reasons is because of "what the game did to gaming history as legacy". For example, people are gonna buy Joker because Persona 5 is amazing game and the character is cool and blahblahblah, NOT because it did anything special to gaming at some point in history. So it can be said about ANYONE's favorite here, either already in the roster or yet to be hopefully added as DLC. They will buy the character because they ACTUALLY WANT HIM/HER from a personal perspective, not due to history importance.

If Nintendo wants to add a character that is important to gaming history and not be afraid to lose money on it regardless of the game's current situation (such as DQ in other regions/countries that aren't Japan), they add such character to the BASE ROSTER, they don't risk it for DLC, where people will only spend money what they actually want. Sure, DQ has sold a lot in japan, and that might ensure almost 100% of players there will buy a DQ character, but it's never a big win if only such DLC character will sell well in their home land and still badly on other regions/countries ( 2,3,4,5,6 etc > 1, so it doesn't matter if it sells well in japan, there will be a loss if it doesn't sell well EVERYWHERE).

I have nothing against Eldrick, nor DQ, but let's be real here already and stop giving "legacy in gaming history" such a strong point for why a character is a good idea for DLC, cause it's not the honest reason why we all players buy a DLC character in the end, we just don't buy a character simply because of THAT. Me personally, I'm buying all characters because i like to have a full game to play with, it's always been that for me, and that's an honest reason i can see many other players will have for actually buying Erdrick, NOT because DQ was such a big deal to the genre in gaming, lol. And this can be applied to any franchise from any other company, it's not a personal bias against DQ or SE or whatever, we're actually being objective here.

A decision that makes sense in sales would be a character that sells well in more than one region. It's dumb to just make a character DLC to sell well just in japan and do terrible in the rest of places. You want DLC to sell for a game worldwide? Make worldwide choices. We can recognize all we want that DQ sells well in Japan, that still won't change the reality of sales in paper when they see that a DQ character only sold well in japan. If they want to make money the best way possible, the best take is to focus on worldwide picks, not a specific region's picks. Edit: Joker is a good example of this, a franchise/game (persona 5) that is beloved everywhere, hence why the reaction worldwide was amazing and people feel likely to buy the season pass because of him. You wouldn't see this happen with a character that is only highly beloved in one region and minimally beloved everywhere else.

Holy mother of text walls.

DLC marketing to specific audiences makes sense though, especially if Nintendo wants to drive popularity in the Japanese Market, where they're neck and neck against Sony most days of the week. What better way to do so than to include a cultural icon, that being Dragon Quest, in Smash Bros.? It's not bad business, it's good business focused on a specific region that isn't us for once.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Forgot about SSB4Dojo's Consolidation.

Regardless, this doesn't help your point at all. Simon Belmont had 0.77% of the total vote with 665 votes in US/Euro and no votes in Japan. He wasn't even a top contender for the 3rd party vote, having only 2.66% of that.

That's hardly impressive, and not at all indicative of Castlevania's performance in the Ballot as per Sakurai's word.

Considering so many characters above him were Veterans, and the sheer amount of choices for an open poll like this, 0.77% is pretty good actually. Obviously these polls aren't TOTALLY accurate with exact numbers, and nobody should say they are, so Simon very well could have done better on the actual ballot. These types of polls are really only good for general estimations I'd say. Like, King K Rool being at the top probably means he was at least in the top 5. A lot of polls done online also probably over-inflate the numbers of characters like shovel knight or shantae. There is still something to be said about characters who didn't show up on these at all though.

(Also the lack of votes from Japan in this data is because there weren't that many Japanese polls included in it)

 

[cmbsfm]

I was kinda memeing, but I don't think Japan would be all that hyped about it either. Sure, the games are popular there, but they'd much rather have Bandana Dee or Crash Bandicoot if anything I've seen means anything.

That’s not really fair to say at all. Just because Bandana Dee and Crash poll high doesn’t mean they’d rather have them. It’s like Cloud over here, tons of characters polled higher than him, but yet he generated a lot more hype and buzz than those who did. Like for example, Master Chief does not poll high at all in the West, but I guarantee you his reveal would generate more hype and buzz than any of the characters that do poll, simply because of how big of a deal Halo is here in the West. Likewise, the same applies for Erdrick and Dragon Quest. It would cause the general public there to lose their ****.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Considering so many characters above him were Veterans, and the sheer amount of choices for an open poll like this, 0.77% is pretty good actually. Obviously these polls aren't TOTALLY accurate with exact numbers, and nobody should say they are, so Simon very well could have done better on the actual ballot. These types of polls are really only good for general estimations I'd say. Like, King K Rool being at the top probably means he was at least in the top 5. A lot of polls done online also probably over-inflate the numbers of characters like shovel knight or shantae. There is still something to be said about characters who didn't show up on these at all though.

(Also the lack of votes from Japan in this data is because there weren't that many Japanese polls included in it)

That's pretty much my point exactly.

The lack of Japanese votes is what's most important here though, because that's where the bulk of Dragon Quest's votes would be coming from. If Dragon Quest performed well in the Ballot and Nintendo and Sakurai want to include them, they'd wait for the chance with DLC.

 

[Nemuresu]

If Erdrick were talked about at all after the poll, you'd be right. He wasn't though.

Means nothing. Joker still wasn't in the Ballot, nor was he high in any Smash poll with him, and by that I mean the two I saw with Joker's name on it: one in reddit (which I can't source), and the Source Gaming giant poll with over a thousand characters on it. If Sakurai took a Dragon Quest character out of Nintendo's list, then so be it.

 

[cmbsfm]

I don’t see anything wrong with catering towards one region with one character. We’ve got five slots, it’s not gonna hurt anyone if one of them is geared towards Japanese players. Plus, who’s to say we won’t get Doomslayer or something for the West?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

That's pretty much my point exactly.

The lack of Japanese votes is what's most important here though, because that's where the bulk of Dragon Quest's votes would be coming from. If Dragon Quest performed well in the Ballot and Nintendo and Sakurai want to include them, they'd wait for the chance with DLC.

The problem is, Erdrick doesn't show up at ALL in this poll. Whereas Geno and Sora do. The way I see it, Erdrick not being on this list means he'd be in the top 20-30 at best if you had more votes. I'd be willing to believe Sora or Cloud beat out Geno based on these results, there's definitely room for error there. I would NOT be willing to believe Erdrick beat out Sora or Cloud.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I don’t see anything wrong with catering towards one region with one character. We’ve got five slots, it’s not gonna hurt anyone if one of them is geared towards Japanese players. Plus, who’s to say we won’t get Doomslayer or something for the West?

If their goal was to cater towards one region, wouldn't it be best to go for that region's most requested, instead of a character only appealing to that region, but less so than plenty of others? Bandana Dee is easily the most requested character in Japan BY FAR, and requires much less legal hurdles.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

You know thinking on this with a fresh mind, any of the potential Square Characters markets pretty well. Or at least these two.

Geno would be for the Smash Fan Base.

Erdrick would be for the Eastern (Home) Audience.

In all honesty, in Sm4sh, was there a Japanese driven pick for DLC? Could probably argue Corrin, but IDK...

Corn was because sakurai wanted to promote a new game and the devs convinced him it'd be a cool pick.

 

[Deleted member]

If their goal was to cater towards one region, wouldn't it be best to go for that region's most requested, instead of a character only appealing to that region, but less so than plenty of others? Bandana Dee is easily the most requested character in Japan BY FAR, and requires much less legal hurdles.

Again. It's not always about catering to the existing fans, but bringing in new ones.

 

[cmbsfm]

If their goal was to cater towards one region, wouldn't it be best to go for that region's most requested, instead of a character only appealing to that region, but less so than plenty of others? Bandana Dee is easily the most requested character in Japan BY FAR, and requires much less legal hurdles.

I’d view it in the vein of putting in Cloud or Snake. They weren’t really highly requested, but they generated massive amounts of hype and brought attention to the game. Plus Bandana Dee would only appeal to the Smash fans who voted on that poll, with DQ you’d appeal to larger base.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Again. It's not always about catering to the existing fans, but bringing in new ones.

This is a fair point I suppose, but I feel like bringing in new fans is something for the base game, not DLC.

 

[Shin Chie]

I don’t see anything wrong with catering towards one region with one character. We’ve got five slots, it’s not gonna hurt anyone if one of them is geared towards Japanese players. Plus, who’s to say we won’t get Doomslayer or something for the West?

Doomguy would be so cool.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I’d view it in the vein of putting in Cloud or Snake. They weren’t really highly requested, but they generated massive amounts of hype and brought attention to the game. Plus Bandana Dee would only appeal to the Smash fans who voted on that poll, with DQ you’d appeal to larger base.

I disagree. Waddle Dees and Bandana Dee, and Kirby in general, are arguably more popular than Smash in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

This is a fair point I suppose, but I feel like bringing in new fans is something for the base game, not DLC.

I don't think it matters whether they're in the base game or DLC honestly. It they're DLC that just means more money for them in the end I guess.

 

[Shin Chie]

This is a fair point I suppose, but I feel like bringing in new fans is something for the base game, not DLC.

I feel like its perfectly fine for both DLC and Base. They both pretty much give off the same effect of bringing people into a series.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The problem is, Erdrick doesn't show up at ALL in this poll. Whereas Geno and Sora do. The way I see it, Erdrick not being on this list means he'd be in the top 20-30 at best if you had more votes. I'd be willing to believe Sora or Cloud beat out Geno based on these results, there's definitely room for error there. I would NOT be willing to believe Erdrick beat out Sora or Cloud.

The Japanese results alone make it look like one, small fan poll. The highest amount of votes for a character is King K. Rool with 115 votes, compared to highest US/Euro result, which is K. Rool with 3,943. The Japanese fan polls consolidated are hardly indicative of the wider Japanese fanbase.

This is a fair point I suppose, but I feel like bringing in new fans is something for the base game, not DLC.

Not necessarily. DLC gives Nintendo better opportunity to go after third party characters since splitting profits is easier, and Square Enix has a habit of their additional content being DLC (Cloud is a precedent both for that and for Square Enix content being in the base game of another company as far as I know).

It makes sense to cater specific markets, because if you can hook them in with one hype pick, then you've got a game and DLC pass sold right there, and what better way to do that than by adding a cultural icon? Surprising? Check. Revolutionary? Check. Hype? Check (for Japan). It fits surprisingly well.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I don't think it matters whether they're in the base game or DLC honestly. It they're DLC that just means more money for them in the end I guess.

considering 100 percent of the people who buy the DLC will have the base game, it wouldn't be the worst decision for the people who already own it to be taken into consideration.

 

[Nazyrus]

We are not bringing new fans to DQ, a franchise that has been around for decades, with just putting acharacter in smash lol. It's not like we are unaware of its existance. If people that are aware about the game, already don't care about it, a smash character won't make a difference. Corrin didn't make more people play his game for getting into smash, it only pleased his already existing fanbase, it didn't bring anyone new to it (and if it did, it was a minority that wouldn't make it into records at all, lol). Again I have nothing against DQ, it can get a character in smash for all i care, but that doesn't change the fact it won't be a pick that takes the most advantage of sales EVERYWHERE in general, like Joker does and will. It's ok if nintendo isn't greedy and wants to please specific regions with certain dlc characters, that's absolutely fine, but IF their approach was to get the most money possible (which is what companies want mostly in the end to sustain themselves, lol) then a DQ character is already not a good choice for that, again, IF that was their goal. If their goal is to please different regions with each specific character, fine by me, but we can't ignore the reality here.

 

[Deleted member]

We are not bringing new fans to DQ, a franchise that has been around for decades, with just putting acharacter in smash lol. It's not like we are unaware of its existance. If people that are aware about the game, already don't care about it, a smash character won't make a difference. Corrin didn't make more people play his game for getting into smash, it only pleased his already existing fanbase, it didn't bring anyone new to it (and if it did, it was a minority that wouldn't make it into records at all, lol). Again I have nothing against DQ, it can get a character in smash for all i care, but that doesn't change the fact it won't be a pick that takes the most advantage of sales EVERYWHERE in general, like Joker does and will. It's ok if nintendo isn't greedy and wants to please specific regions with certain dlc characters, that's absolutely fine, but IF their approach was to get the most money possible (which is what companies want mostly in the end to sustain themselves, lol) then a DQ character is already not a good choice for that, again, IF that was their goal. If their goal is to please multiple regions with each specific character, fine by me, but we can't ignore the reality here.

Do you not get how big of a franchise it is in Japan?

 

[cmbsfm]

I disagree. Waddle Dees and Bandana Dee, and Kirby in general, are arguably more popular than Smash in Japan.

So Waddle Dee has a national holiday? Did Waddle Dee caused so many students to skip school when it’s game released? Did the government ever ask Nintendo to only release games about Waddle Dee on weekends so people wouldn’t call in sick to work? Because all that happened for DQ, don’t recal it ever happening for Waddle Dee or the Kirby series in general.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

So Waddle Dee has a national holiday? Did Waddle Dee caused so many students to skip school when it’s game released? Did the government ever ask Nintendo to only release games about Waddle Dee on weekends so people wouldn’t call in sick to work? Because all that happened for DQ, don’t recal it ever happening for Waddle Dee or the Kirby series in general.

I was disagreeing with the "Bandana Dee would only appeal to Smash fans," thing.

 

[StormC]

Sakurai saying that "Castlevania" was highly requested on the ballot adds an interesting wrinkle to things.

IIRC, in that big mondo compilation poll, Simon scored the highest out of any third party character whose company already present in Smash Bros.

 

[Nemuresu]

We are not bringing new fans to DQ, a franchise that has been around for decades, with just putting acharacter in smash lol.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/1...blematic-of-smash-bros-ultimates-dlc-approach

We want all the best content on our platform. All the best content, all the best developers. And so our job is to continue growing the install base for Nintendo Switch to drive engagement of our players, to grow the audience. As that happens, then developers see the opportunity

You were saying?

 

[cmbsfm]

I was disagreeing with the "Bandana Dee would only appeal to Smash fans," thing.

It’s incredibly likely that if you play Kirby you probably play or know of Smash. I mean the main characters are already in it. If adding in Kirby wouldn’t bring those holding out why would a Waddle Dee do anything?

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I don't know about Hitagi.

They may have legitimate info about upcoming games, but DLC seems to be a whole different beast than the base Smash game itself, and Hitagi's info conflicted with Vergeben's list from what I remember (he said no FF, probably some others but I forgot tbh).

You do know Hitagi also claims that spirits deconfirm fighters too right? Your favorite, I've heard.