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[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

Who do you think is the most likely possible Square-Enix Newcomer? (Two Choices possibles)


  • Total voters
    537
  • Poll closed .

Nemuresu

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True, but even with that in mind. How would Edrick be anything different then Corrin who everyone agrees upon being a promotional material for Fates, considering Fates had only been out in Japan, how is Edrick nothing but a shillpick considering Dragon Quest is basically a "who" series for 95% of the Smash fanbase while also being something that Square wants to push more than ever here in the west? Call me a cynic, but that's pretty much how it feels all things considered. If Dragon Quest was more well known WW I would more then likely not have the same viewpoint. Especially when they have someone more highly demanded as Sora that is extremely wanted worldwide.
Easy job, Dragon Quest is already well-known among JRPG communities and general video game communities bring it up from time to time, not to mention that Erdrick is not even the protagonist of the latest installment; the main problem is that their characters aren't well-known. Corrin not being known outside of Japan wasn't the only factor that cursed people's views on the character, the fact that everyone was sick of Fire Emblem characters played big time on that, along with Sakurai's statements about the characters meant to be fanservice. I'm sure there's more people willing to accept a character from a new franchise with quite the pedigree, at the price of not having stablished characters outside of their generic enemy; over one from a franchise that is already in Smash and turned out to be polarizing about it.
 

beans

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Ken also leaked despite being an echo.
off
gonna need fles seal for that hole

That theory would only work if the square rep or Steve was shown first
No not really.
It would need for the reveal of one from the SE list or Steve to be broken.
It relies on every single rumor being water cooler talk trough broken telephone game until it reached the leakers.
So its a big IF
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
8,299
Not really related to the current conversation, but this is a great thread because it shows that as much as things change, how much things stay the same:

https://smashboards.com/threads/why-would-sakurai-ignore-the-most-popular-character-choices.138754/

I mean most of the most popular characters would be left out, at least as far as playable character goes. I mean no Ridley, no Geno, no Krystal, no Mega Man, and so on. None of the new characters would be female (ZSS doesn't count) besides Krystal I think that Midna and Micaiah would be great choices too.

I just can't believe that he would choose Wolf over Krystal. I have nothing against Wolf, but Krystal is the far popular one, she was one of the highest in Sakurai's poll, why not include that character then? It doesn't make any sense to me... And Ridley, even if I personally doesn't want him that much in because he would feel awkward (spelling?) I still think it seems odd that he would not make it in as a pc. He was also high on Sakurai's poll, and I also think it seems strange that the Metroid franchise would not get a new Playable character (and no, ZSS doesn't count).

And then Geno, I'v read somewhere that Sakurai himself like this character because it reminds him of Pinochio (Spelling?) and he was also one of the highest on the poll. Doesn't the poll mean anything??
Don't worry, I think it's fake too. Dumb photoshop, making pictures these days doubtful.
the evil 35 roster makes no sense whatsoever, really. there's no real logic in it at all. It's more like something a complete n00b on gamefaqs would think up.
Why would he ignore the most popular choices? Well, I don't know, but Melee certainly shows that he can and will.
Exactly all my reasons for believing it's fake.

No Krystal.
No Bowser Jr.
NO RIDLEY?!

I mean, come on. WTF.
A cameo from a certain someone is in this thread too. ;)
 
D

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Not really related to the current conversation, but this is a great thread because it shows that as much as things change, how much things stay the same:

https://smashboards.com/threads/why-would-sakurai-ignore-the-most-popular-character-choices.138754/











A cameo from a certain someone is in this thread too. ;)
Ah, the brawl days. People were way too hopeful weren’t they? Can’t say I blame them too hard, it was only the second speculation period and 7 year wait is a long-ass time.
 
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EarlTamm

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Ah, the brawl days. People were way too hopeful weren’t they? Can’t say I blame them too hard, it was only the second speculation period and 7 year wait is a long-*** time.
And from what I hear, Snake's inclusion blew open the floodgates. No one knew how third parties would be conducted.
 

shinhed-echi

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Oh boy storytime. So I was dating this girl on and off for 2 and a half years, absolutely toxic relationship both physically (Let's just say she would hit me a lot) and mentally (in the end she cheated but that's w.e). The one thing her and I used to do together was play/talk about Mario games. So once the fallout of the relationship happened I found myself unable to touch/play any of the games I used to when i was in a relationship. Me being massively into gaming found myself yearning to play something so I picked up DQ 1 after hearing its influence on the genre through a hardcore gaming 101 article. It was the only series I could touch through all my depressive episodes and here we are. Attached is an image of me with Yuji Horii (I'm dressed as the protag from DQ5.) I took a flight out to Cali just for the opportunity. Been a die hard fan since.
Wow! Nice! Sad story, but so glad you pulled through!
And I couldn't have recommended a better numbered entry than V for your particular case! (Although I think it was a bit emotionally rough for me).
Also great cosplay there, I think I've seen this pic flying around in social media.

---

My case isn't all that interesting but basically:

- I was looking for a new Chrono Trigger, so I bought DQ8 for PS2.
- I liked it, but wasn't as hooked on it as I would have wanted.
- Decided to play from the very 1st game on, because I felt I was missing lore.
- I found the first 3 NES games a bit hard. But I liked them.
- Didn't finish DQ3, until I played the remade Snes version. (This is where I became a huge fan).
- I bought every DQ game on Google Play Store (1~6).
- They helped me through a rough economical crisis and handling a lot of stress in a foreign country where my wife and I didn't feel as welcome.

I was a big fan of what I consider the golden age of Final Fantasy. (4~7). So DQ reminding me a lot of 4~6 made it really easy for me to become a big fan.
And since FF moved away from turn based combat, and I moved away from Pokemon, DQ felt like home!

Plus, as a big Dragon Ball fan... Well.. I hardly needed more excuses.

DQ is such a big part of my life, I even sing my baby son songs from the games as lullabies.
I'm so glad I found this series and that I gave it a chance... Or two.
And I would be pretty sad if one day Square Enix just gives up on the west to release DQ titles.
 
D

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Speculation isn't some game where whoever makes the best arguments gets their character in the game. Its purpose is literally to set expectations properly. Our discussions have zero effect on the inevitable outcome, what we're discussing is a Schrdinger's Fighter whose fate we believe to be able to change.
If you don't like speculating because it's "hopeless" then you're a) missing the point of it; b) only seeing it from your perspective(because every character has fans, no ons will make everyone disappointed).
If you din't like these things, no one is forcing you to speculate, you can just do whatever else you want.

I also find the thought process that every ounce of speculation is dead and no possibilities remain to be discussed to be an exaggeration and the true pessimism when the only thing out of unrevealed content that's 99% set in stone is the Square character(not to mention we know only that Joker is in the gane and have no idea how he functions and what stage and music he brings with him).
There are still other 3 characters with no leaks pointing one way or another. If you dislike a speculation whose conclusion is foregone, go speculate over those characters instead.
 

ThreeT

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Ah, the brawl days. People were way too hopeful weren’t they? Can’t say I blame them too hard, it was only the second speculation period and 7 year wait is a long-*** time.
I would say people were the same during the Grinch Leak. They believed that Sakurai would completely please fans and wouldn't believe otherwise. The cycle repeats and will likely continue to repeat with the addition of new fans replacing old ones.
 

Icewolff92

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Easy job, Dragon Quest is already well-known among JRPG communities and general video game communities bring it up from time to time, not to mention that Erdrick is not even the protagonist of the latest installment; the main problem is that their characters aren't well-known. Corrin not being known outside of Japan wasn't the only factor that cursed people's views on the character, the fact that everyone was sick of Fire Emblem characters played big time on that, along with Sakurai's statements about the characters meant to be fanservice. I'm sure there's more people willing to accept a character from a new franchise with quite the pedigree, at the price of not having stablished characters outside of their generic enemy; over one from a franchise that is already in Smash and turned out to be polarizing about it.

Sigh... just because WE know about Dragons Quest doesn't mean that EVERYONE knows about him. To qoute another user here. You use the "Smash bubble" as the defense for him when the matter of fact is that there is more than just hardcore gamers that play this. It's sort of like the comic book fandom. Jason Todd and Tim Drake might be popular Robins in the comics, but when you ask a random individual that knows nothing of comics, 9.9/10 will most certainly say something about "I didn't know it was more than one Robin". There is a reason why Smash is called a party game and not a fighting game

Also, Edrick going over well because he is from a new franchise... Sorry, but I seriously doubt it. If you only knew how many times I've heard "please no more anime swordsmen", (be it working at GameStop, being outside the country or local tournaments..) then I would be a millionaire right. Having someone like Edrick will not go well by the general smash player base because of literal who + anime swordsmen. Heck Joker got negativity towards him because he was "yet another anime character" even if the reactions was mostly positive. If you want him, more power to you, and I be glad for you if he does. But that doesn't change the fact that I argue that you are underestimating how much o a negative clash it will be. Am I wrong, awesome.. but I seriously doubt it
 

StormC

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I doubt the anime swordsman distaste is that strong when Isaac is one of the most requested characters remaining. People who go on tirades about that are, to use an overused term, a vocal minority.
 
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Zubyyyy

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I would say people were the same during the Grinch Leak. They believed that Sakurai would completely please fans and wouldn't believe otherwise. The cycle repeats and will likely continue to repeat with the addition of new fans replacing old ones.
Not to the same extent that they were in Brawl. Having been a part of that time on this forum, I can honestly say the hatred that Sakurai got when Brawl was released was way beyond Grinch Leak level.

Some factors make sense for this, though.
-There was a huge HUGE outcry when DLC was outright deconfirmed and denied. Meaning what we got in the main game was it. No holding onto hope.
-We actively saw characters cut for seemingly no good reason. The ones that were cut were literally clones added into the Melee game to pad the roster. It wouldn't be hard to put them back in (or so we thought), so we felt very hurt that we not only got characters we didn't want or need, but we also lost ones we loved.
-The game was straight up terrible competitive wise. You'd be surprised how much this hurt a lot of the people, as hardcore competitive players frequented the boards more since YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, Twitch, etc wasn't really a thing back then, and when people couldn't play as their favorite character who never came, it sucked to go to worse versions of the characters they already knew.
 

Icewolff92

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I doubt the anime swordsman distaste is that strong when Isaac is one of the most requested characters remaining. People who go on tirades about that are, to use an overused term, a vocal minority.

No offense to the Isaac fanbase, but I don't think they are as big as they call. I looked around Youtube during Golden Sunday for videos that campaigned about it, checked twitter with the hashtag etc... Well, let just say that it wasn't so many that I thought it would be based on peoples claim and all. They are loud maybe, but arguably not so big as they think. I saw someone like BillyBob10k that claimed that his video got next to nothing when it comes to views he expected.

Edit - The only one that you could have used as an argument against the "no more anime swordsmen" would be Sora, but I would argue that he is the only exception that would really fly because on how big of a phenomenon Kingdom Hearts is worldwide with the third one being out next month
 
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SSGuy

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To be fair, Erdrick seems to be the least shill pick for Dragon Quest. He is easily the most popular of the protagonist and has his legacy in every Dragon Quest game. It isn't like they are just shoe horning in the newest characters just to sell what is current. Erdrick's legacy lives in pretty much every Dragon Quest game.
 

Fatmanonice

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How can euthanasia be required? Feels a bit contradictory.
I dunno, it just sounds more pleasant than bullet at base of skull.

The Brawl fallout was because expectations were super high but you really couldn't blame anyone if you were a part of it.

-Sakurai heavily implied it was his last Smash.

-Nintendo acted like it was the final Smash.

-The wait technically began at E3 05 so it was 2.5 years of speculation.

-New info on the Smash Dojo was almost weekly including surprise character reveals starting in August of 2007.

-Technically the first International Smash Ballot at E3 06.

-Introduction of third party characters.

-Fan favorite reveals were back to back for almost three straight months from August to November 2007.

-The Subspace Emissary announcement came out of nowhere and melted the community's mind.

-First Smash game with online.

There were so many reasons why people were salty AF when the game came out.
 

Nemuresu

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Sigh... just because WE know about Dragons Quest doesn't mean that EVERYONE knows about him. To qoute another user here. You use the "Smash bubble" as the defense for him when the matter of fact is that there is more than just hardcore gamers that play this.
I. Never. Talked. About. This. Site. Only.
Go lurk elsewhere, there's people who do know what Dragon Quest is outside of the threads here. It's easy as hell.

It's sort of like the comic book fandom. Jason Todd and Tim Drake might be popular Robins in the comics, but when you ask a random individual that knows nothing of comics, 9.9/10 will most certainly say something about "I didn't know it was more than one Robin".
So? People aren't supposed to know where the entire roster comes from. Go ask your friends who know nothing about video games who Fox is, or Olimar, or literally any of the Fire Emblem characters. Hell, I'm sure there's people who don't know who Simon Belmont is, and that guy couldn't have made it into Smash without the Ballot.

There is a reason why Smash is called a party game and not a fighting game
That has nothing to do with character selection at all. It's just the approach from a gameplay standpoint.

Also, Edrick going over well because he is from a new franchise... Sorry, but I seriously doubt it. If you only knew how many times I've heard "please no more anime swordsmen", (be it working at GameStop, being outside the country or local tournaments..) then I would be a millionaire right. Having someone like Edrick will not go well by the general smash player base because of literal who + anime swordsmen.
That argument never stopped a character from joining the roster, for the better or for the worse.
 

StormC

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Speculation was way more fun in the Brawl days, it was basically the wild west back then. By Smash 4 people had become jaded.
 

TheYungLink

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For people who say they want Eight from DQ8 as an alt for Erdrick instead of Luminary, the latter has an alternate costume as a pre-order bonus for American DQ11 copies where his outfit is taken from Eight's. Maybe it could be one of Luminary's colors, who knows.
 

Dr. Jojo Phantasma

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I dunno, it just sounds more pleasant than bullet at base of skull.

The Brawl fallout was because expectations were super high but you really couldn't blame anyone if you were a part of it.

-Sakurai heavily implied it was his last Smash.

-Nintendo acted like it was the final Smash.

-The wait technically began at E3 05 so it was 2.5 years of speculation.

-New info on the Smash Dojo was almost weekly including surprise character reveals starting in August of 2007.

-Technically the first International Smash Ballot at E3 06.

-Introduction of third party characters.

-Fan favorite reveals were back to back for almost three straight months from August to November 2007.

-The Subspace Emissary announcement came out of nowhere and melted the community's mind.

-First Smash game with online.

There were so many reasons why people were salty AF when the game came out.
Oh yes indeed, those were some good times. I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I think that this game was what Brawl was meant to be, we have freaking K.Rool and Ridley, all we needed are Geno and Issac. :p
 
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Icewolff92

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I. Never. Talked. About. This. Site. Only.
Go lurk elsewhere, there's people who do know what Dragon Quest is outside of the threads here. It's easy as hell.
I know, and neither did I.

So? People aren't supposed to know where the entire roster comes from. Go ask your friends who know nothing about video games who Fox is, or Olimar, or literally any of the Fire Emblem characters. Hell, I'm sure there's people who don't know who Simon Belmont is, and that guy couldn't have made it into Smash without the Ballot.
The only one that could be a solid point is Olimar since that is one of the more niche titles Nintendo has, I give you that. But Fox? There is something called memes that have joked the crapped out of doing a barrel roll. Castlevania, before Simon was announced, had an anime. But no matter what, they got added in the base roster and not DLC.

Plus you can just look at the general sales when it comes to Star Fox and Castlevania outnumbers Dragon Quest here in the west by a lot.

That argument never stopped a character from joining the roster, for the better or for the worse.
Not arguing there. I'm just saying that I find your "it will turn out fine" when it comes reactions to Edricks potential inclusion rather naive based upon what I've seen and heard IRL as well as online.
 

Fatmanonice

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Speculation was way more fun in the Brawl days, it was basically the wild west back then. By Smash 4 people had become jaded.
Yeah... Smashboards is kind of a purgatory because Geno is literally the only thing left in Smash I want. I still have my personal wish list from 2002 saved as a word document and I've even gotten off the wall choices like Villager and Iggy but my most wanted is still MIA 16 years later. My top 5 all time was Geno, Megaman, Ridley, Wario, and Dedede so it's just weird, especially now that Ridley's actually in.
 

RandomAce

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Ken also leaked despite being an echo.
Ken is the most unqiue echo, and he goes as far as to having unique moves. I’ll list them all out.

-Neutral Air, Up Air, Forward Smash, Forward Heavy Tilt, Nata Otoshi Geri, and Ootoso Mawa? Geri.
- Multi Hit Tatsu, Weaker Hadoken, Multi Hit Shoryuken.
- Different Run Speed.
- Different Final Smashes.

There are a lot of differences between Ken and Ryu. Sakurai even made a joke that Ken is only considered an echo because he said so.
 

REZERO

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Yeah I imagine back in the day it was more fun to speculate because things didnt get leaked all the time. It makes things less exciting, I remember when I used to anticipate E3.. it used to be something that would surprise you.
 

Kotor

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That's the main reason why I hope for not a single Nintendo character to be in the Pass. People seriously thought that only promotional characters could join the game,
Smash speculators love to think in absolutes. Is the Smash fandom a front for the Sith Order?

If a character is literally anything but playable, they're deconfirmed. But Sylux is somehow a viable candidate for DLC because he has nothing in Ultimate. A still-irrelevant nobody that's done nothing significant in the Metroid series is gonna be DLC to shill Prime 4 because of an assumption he's gonna be important someday.
 

childishgamgeno

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Geno: JUST PUT HIM IN
I doubt the anime swordsman distaste is that strong when Isaac is one of the most requested characters remaining. People who go on tirades about that are, to use an overused term, a vocal minority.
I think what makes Isaac stand apart is his Earth based magic attacks and his Psynergy attacks which take the shape of GIANT HANDS
 

Fatmanonice

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Since this is the Square discussion thread, I figured I'd explain why the Geno fans that believe he couldn't get in after Erdrick as one of the remaining three DLC are up in arms (I still think it's possible and have explained my reasons earlier).

-This means that he really was leak bait, implying Square was well aware of his popularity and did nothing. The fact it made its way to supervisors at NoA according to PolarPanda's source makes it even worse. It honestly comes off as a sick joke if he's ultimately not in.

-A lot of people would have preferred for the band-aid to be ripped off if he wasn't playable, not this weird limbo. For example, why didn't they simply make him an assist trophy like Knuckles or Shovel Knight if it was totally out of the question?

-He's singled out a lot in the base game. Him, Mallow, and Cloud are the only SE characters as spirits, he's an online icon, he's one of the strongest non enhancing Legendary spirits (his full power is an even 10k), he's the closest spirit to the final boss in WoL, etc.

-Mii costume is gone, might not come back. Aside from Lloyd and Jacky, all the third party characters represented by costumes in Smash 4 are in tangible forms in the game, most were simply upgraded to assist trophies. Virtua Fighter has the Akira assist trophy and Lloyd is still super likely as DLC so, again, it feels like being singled out.

-Pretty much the only major popular character from the Brawl days now that isn't playable, an assist trophy, or a Mii costume. Even characters like Saki and Lip are now Mii costumes.

-On the topic of Brawl favorites, Black Knight, Sukapon, and Krystal finally became assist trophies, Isaac, Lip, Skull Kid, Saki, Ray 01 and Dixie all got Mii costumes, and Ridley and K. Rool finally became playable.

-Of course, the Nintendo Dream article from early 2016 but you all knew that.

-Super tin foily but in the Final Smash Direct, he's shown as an icon for Shulk, a character that can see the future. When this was pointed out, I think the fanbase let out a collective groan because, despite it just being a coincidence, it's one of things that makes you throw up your arms and say "Jesus, really?! 70+ characters and 700+ icons and THAT'S the combination they chose?"

-Yoko Shimomura has worked on every Smash game (still no SMRPG music in Smash though), most of the original staff for SMRPG work for Nintendo now under Alpha Dream including both directors, the producer was Shigeru Miyamoto himself, and even one of the two original character designers still works for Square Enix. The pieces are all lying in arms reach and it's super frustrating.

All this said, if Geno's not one of the last DLC characters, he was hard, hard swerved for whatever reason and the only consolation prize currently is a downgrade from Smash 4 that's the equivalent of a sticker. Only other character to be downgraded is Heihachi who is now one of Pac-Man's taunts but Sakurai said he was too complicated to be playable anyways. It all circles back to feeling like we weren't taken seriously as a fanbase despite 13 years of visibility and even Sakurai himself acknowledging us. If it all ends up being a net loss, I think we have the right to not only feel disappointed but actually upset.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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I think what makes Isaac stand apart is his Earth based magic attacks and his Psynergy attacks which take the shape of GIANT HANDS
>Has a sword
>Looks like anime

He is an anime swordsman. However, he's a popular anime swordsman, which is why he largely gets a pass.

GameFAQs and 4chan would still complain about him being an anime swordsman though.
 
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MajoraMan28

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>Has a sword
>Looks like anime

He is an anime swordsman. However, he's a popular anime swordsman, which is why he largely gets a pass.

GameFAQs and 4chan would still complain about him being an anime swordsman though.
I find it funny how people complain of anime in Smash when Nintendo themselves are Japanese and a lot of their characters have anime traces to them.
Nintendo IS anime. :O
 

ChronoBound

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The funny thing about the whining about Krystal not making it in was that Wolf was just as requested as Krystal, but she was seen as far more likely due to:\

1. The false belief that Sakurai was going to go out of his way to add more female newcomers over male ones due to a misinterpretation of Sakurai's statement about adding Zero Suit Samus.

2. The false belief that all clones were going to be cut or decloned, so Wolf would not be added in because he was far more likely to be a clone and less unique than Krystal.

3. An interview with Zero Suit Samus's voice actress where she said she would be voicing Krystal in Brawl as well.

Combine all three, she was seen as among the most likely characters for Brawl, however, Wolf did have as much requests as her.

The funny thing is though Wolf actually went through the same thing during pre-Melee. He was seen as among the most likely and was among the most wanted newcomers for that game due to the belief that Melee's E3 2001 trailer was giving hints about newcomers (in particular Ridley, Wolf, and Samurai Goroh). When the Star Fox newcomer ended up being Falco, many Wolf and Star Fox fans were bewildered because it seemed as though Wolf was the one being hinted at, however, it was a pleasant surprise for many because Falco was quite popular himself.
 

Klimax

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Heihachi who is now one of Pac-Man's taunts but Sakurai said he was too complicated to be playable anyways.
Just like with Heihachi, if Geno is not playable, I also expect a ****ty excuse by Sakurai. Because come on, the "duh, I can't make Heihachi playable because of his speed" is probably one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just like the "Ridley is too big" (and now that Ridley is in the game, the Sakurai's fanboys see how much it was easy to make Ridley playable when you actually want to make him playable).

Sakurai always has lame excuses to not make a character playable. I would like him to say the truth, even if it sounds rude.

Now, about the Square Enix's rep, as I said, I'm really starting to doubt in Geno's chance even though there's a lot of good signs for him.
At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that Erdrick wouldn't be a waste of money, even if people don't want him, they would buy him at the end of the day.
 
D

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Just like with Heihachi, if Geno is not playable, I also expect a ****ty excuse by Sakurai. Because come on, the "duh, I can't make Heihachi playable because of his speed" is probably one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just like the "Ridley is too big" (and now that Ridley is in the game, the Sakurai's fanboys see how much it was easy to make Ridley playable when you actually want to make him playable).

Sakurai always has lame excuses to not make a character playable. I would like him to say the truth, even if it sounds rude.

Now, about the Square Enix's rep, as I said, I'm really starting to doubt in Geno's chance even though there's a lot of good signs for him.
At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that Erdrick wouldn't be a waste of money, even if people don't want him, they would buy him at the end of the day.
I think the thing is though is that with DLC Sakurai is not choosing who gets in (or, at the very least, he chose from a list handed to him which Geno could just not have been on).
It could also be with Square and not Sakurai as to why he wouldn't get in. Don't immediately blame him if it doesn't happen.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Just like with Heihachi, if Geno is not playable, I also expect a ****ty excuse by Sakurai. Because come on, the "duh, I can't make Heihachi playable because of his speed" is probably one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just like the "Ridley is too big" (and now that Ridley is in the game, the Sakurai fanboys see how much it was easy to make Ridley playable when you actually want to make him playable).

Sakurai always has lame excuses to not make a character playable. I would like him to say the truth, even if it sounds rude.

Now, about the Square Enix's rep, as I said, I'm really starting to doubt in Geno's chance even though there's a lot of good signs for him.
At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that Erdrick wouldn't be a waste of money, even if people don't want him, they would buy him at the end of the day.
Except it wasn't his speed, it was his movement. Yes, there's a difference.

Tekken is a 3D fighting game. The 3D aspect is important to faithfully representing the series. More than that, the controls of the series, where each button controls a different limb, doesn't adapt itself as well to Smash Bros. as Street Fighter did. This made it difficult to be faithful to Tekken if Heihachi were included, and Sakurai isn't the kind of person to force characters in.

Sakurai genuinely believed that Ridley was too big, and a boss was the best way to faithfully represent him. When faced with massive fan demand though, he put in the effort required to come up with a moveset for him.

Even then, Geno is in a different situation because he's owned by Square Enix, who seem reluctant to include him as he does little to promote their brand more than he does Mario and Nintendo's (before the guns are pointed my way, this is a personal observation given Square Enix's past actions and what we know).
 
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ChronoBound

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Another very interesting thing about pre-Brawl. I might have been the first one to put together the entire Brawl roster (due to various statement by three different leaks who ended up having things come true for them). I looked at how they overlapped and posted the 35 character roster from there.

I also coined the term, "Forbidden 7" (referring to the seven characters in Brawl's internal files that did not make it to the final game).

I do not want to this to be construed as boasting, but rather its a context for how much more involved I was involved with speculation in prior epochs.
 
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Fatmanonice

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I think the thing is though is that with DLC Sakurai is not choosing who gets in (or, at the very least, he chose from a list handed to him which Geno could just not have been on).
It could also be with Square and not Sakurai as to why he wouldn't get in. Don't immediately blame him if it doesn't happen.
That's the problem though, we know it would be Square's fault. Sakurai is a big fan of Geno and that's why sometimes as a fanbase we swing our ***** around and knock things off shelves 4 feet away because of it. Even in the Brawl days, we concluded that Square was the only real obstacle and, as detailed, it would be even more obnoxious than a total no show because they even bothered to liscense him out for the base game and did all these little details to make him "special" when the cruel joke is that nobody will care about spirits by the time Joker comes out.
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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In the midst of all this pessimism... I still think Geno is the SE rep.
 

childishgamgeno

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Geno: JUST PUT HIM IN
Since this is the Square discussion thread, I figured I'd explain why the Geno fans that believe he couldn't get in after Erdrick as one of the remaining three DLC are up in arms (I still think it's possible and have explained my reasons earlier).

-This means that he really was leak bait, implying Square was well aware of his popularity and did nothing. The fact it made its way to supervisors at NoA according to PolarPanda's source makes it even worse. It honestly comes off as a sick joke if he's ultimately not in.

-A lot of people would have preferred for the band-aid to be ripped off if he wasn't playable, not this weird limbo. For example, why didn't they simply make him an assist trophy like Knuckles or Shovel Knight if it was totally out of the question?

-He's singled out a lot in the base game. Him, Mallow, and Cloud are the only SE characters as spirits, he's an online icon, he's one of the strongest non enhancing Legendary spirits (his full power is an even 10k), he's the closest spirit to the final boss in WoL, etc.

-Mii costume is gone, might not come back. Aside from Lloyd and Jacky, all the third party characters represented by costumes in Smash 4 are in tangible forms in the game, most were simply upgraded to assist trophies. Virtua Fighter has the Akira assist trophy and Lloyd is still super likely as DLC so, again, it feels like being singled out.

-Pretty much the only major popular character from the Brawl days now that isn't playable, an assist trophy, or a Mii costume. Even characters like Saki and Lip are now Mii costumes.

-On the topic of Brawl favorites, Black Knight, Sukapon, and Krystal finally became assist trophies, Isaac, Lip, Skull Kid, Saki, Ray 01 and Dixie all got Mii costumes, and Ridley and K. Rool finally became playable.

-Of course, the Nintendo Dream article from early 2016 but you all knew that.

-Super tin foily but in the Final Smash Direct, he's shown as an icon for Shulk, a character that can see the future. When this was pointed out, I think the fanbase let out a collective groan because, despite it just being a coincidence, it's one of things that makes you throw up your arms and say "Jesus, really?! 70+ characters and 700+ icons and THAT'S the combination they chose?"

-Yoko Shimomura has worked on every Smash game (still no SMRPG music in Smash though), most of the original staff for SMRPG work for Nintendo now under Alpha Dream including both directors, the producer was Shigeru Miyamoto himself, and even one of the two original character designers still works for Square Enix. The pieces are all lying in arms reach and it's super frustrating.

All this said, if Geno's not one of the last DLC characters, he was hard, hard swerved for whatever reason and the only consolation prize currently is a downgrade from Smash 4 that's the equivalent of a sticker. Only other character to be downgraded is Heihachi who is now one of Pac-Man's taunts but Sakurai said he was too complicated to be playable anyways. It all circles back to feeling like we weren't taken seriously as a fanbase despite 13 years of visibility and even Sakurai himself acknowledging us. If it all ends up being a net loss, I think we have the right to not only feel disappointed but actually upset.
Woooooo boy, preach.

Not to mention the NoA tweet earlier in the year shouting out Geno and Mallow, and that Nintendo trivia question that was during the Game Awards where the question was basically just “which game was Geno in?”

No character on the SE List at all has had THIS MUCH evidence highlighted toward them.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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>Has a sword
>Looks like anime

He is an anime swordsman. However, he's a popular anime swordsman, which is why he largely gets a pass.

GameFAQs and 4chan would still complain about him being an anime swordsman though.
except... he's a terraformer. That's one of his main appeals.
 
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