Sonic+ ~UPDATED OP 11/15/09~

[kirox777]

i think sonic should get a new Nair as a killer. if you have played games like sonic 3 where his are attack (with iut an orb on) he does a the same attack as brawls Nair but instead in sonic 3 he has a little white aura ring that comes out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-oHyHxZBLA&feature=related look at the video and skip to 00:37 he does what im talkin about. if that was in brawl+ and a killer that would be cool. and really help out sonic

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I figured out I coded the auto-cancel wrong, and in fact messed up and made him grab the ledge automatically out of his Dair. That's one unexpected buff

He's not grabbing the ledge any sooner than vBrawl, either, for me...

And we've already tried out the S3&K n-air. I'm not sure if it made it to GSH2 or not, since I didn't get the chance to test that, but I'm assuming it did. A while back, one of the test files included a graphics change to the n-air to make it look similar to the insta-shield from S3&K, which I kind of liked, but this one doesn't (but it still has the invincibility frames).

 

[cobaltblue]

i think sonic should get a new Nair as a killer. if you have played games like sonic 3 where his are attack (with iut an orb on) he does a the same attack as brawls Nair but instead in sonic 3 he has a little white aura ring that comes out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-oHyHxZBLA&feature=related look at the video and skip to 00:37 he does what im talkin about. if that was in brawl+ and a killer that would be cool. and really help out sonic

The GSH2 is nair is based off this idea. The graphics and invincibility isn't as large as it was in the first psa as it was pretty spamable. As more data comes back it'll be changed accordingly.

I still hope for a bigger hit box as the actual invincible portion seems spot on as is.

 

[Isatis]

A bigger hitbox was one of the things me and Cape argued on and came to an agreement to increase it slightly but not the size that Blank had when he released his PSA.

If I do get my hands on a Wii in the near future I'm going to see if I can make some final modifications...

 

[Kei_Takaro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSFSe5PbeI8

lulz, also I don't know why it didn't use Side-B
but anyway lulz indeed

btw I forget, did you make Bair DI-able?

 

[yami_sora]

It should be DI-able, but from the looks of it Luigi didn't know that!

 

[The Cape]

A bigger hitbox was one of the things me and Cape argued on and came to an agreement to increase it slightly but not the size that Blank had when he released his PSA.

I think it came down to the big hitbox that you guys wanted OR the invulnerability.

Bionic chose the invulnerability and I gave you a small size increase because I am just that nice :-p

I think thats the only change we had to compromise on, rest of them were really good.

 

[yami_sora]

Yeah well Cape that's just because you're so awesome. You know deep down you love Sonic.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Of course, why would he be here

 

[Isatis]

My Wii miraculously came back to life this morning, so I'm going to be doing some more PSA work and tweaking thankfully.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

O.O, it just feels so random lmao

Are you gonna remove that ledge grab from a dair?

 

[A New England Winter]

hey hey

5 frames less end lag on FThrow, FTilt and DTilt, less start up on BAir, and a bit more priority...

and he's perfect

 

[The Cape]

O.O, it just feels so random lmao

Are you gonna remove that ledge grab from a dair?

I DLed the .pac and checked it out. The autocancel is intact and the ledge grab only happens after the move ends (as it did in vBrawl). When the move ends it also allows Sonic to AD and things of that nature.

 

[Isatis]

Yeah, it was just a theory, and testing it out more turned out Cape was right...

And isn't he good as is? Fthrow is already changed so people can follow up, ftilt and dtilt feel fine so far, Bair was already changed from vBrawl to have less start-up lag (if I'm reading RC1 changelist right), and I'm not sure why Sonic would need better priority (two of his aerials already have a lot of priority), unlike Falcon who literally needed it o_O

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Yeah, it was just a theory, and testing it out more turned out Cape was right...

Don't tell me some Mod decided to pull a prank on me and hell-banned me...

I figured out I coded the auto-cancel wrong, and in fact messed up and made him grab the ledge automatically out of his Dair. That's one unexpected buff

He's not grabbing the ledge any sooner than vBrawl...

 

[Isatis]

I was actually guessing because some of the Sonic's told me they didn't notice the autocancel, and yeah, you were the first person that was right lol...didn't see the post.

>_> <_< -unbans before anyone notices-

 

[Perfect Chaos]

And wait...is Cape getting the early cancel on landing lag or not? For me, d-air is pretty much exactly like vBrawl...

 

[A New England Winter]

Yeah, it was just a theory, and testing it out more turned out Cape was right...

And isn't he good as is? Fthrow is already changed so people can follow up, ftilt and dtilt feel fine so far, Bair was already changed from vBrawl to have less start-up lag (if I'm reading RC1 changelist right), and I'm not sure why Sonic would need better priority (two of his aerials already have a lot of priority), unlike Falcon who literally needed it o_O

yeah, I guess his tilts are fine, though I would like a liiiiiittle bit more range on UTilt.

haha, oops about BAir, I read it wrong the first time.

Sonic's ground priority is an issue still, especially against people like Wario or DK who can punch through his ground attacks relatively easily. This is really my only heavy problem.

I just want less lag on FThrow so I can combo into FAir reliably lol.

You know what would be cool? Instant Nair.

 

[Isatis]

I've been able to follow up from Fthrow just fine with an Fair...just requires a bit more reading

And Nair comes out on frame 5... not instant, but it's still quick to come out

 

[cobaltblue]

Commenting on the current beta. I think sonic is pretty spot on (still want that increased nair hitbox, just not blank big crazy). Sonic's moves all seem to flow nicely now, he retains his HA which can be JC'd nicely on hit. Fair acts as a great anti shorthop move to mix in with his spin attacks. His kill options are solid as they aren't stupid good for a char of his stature yet they don't outright suck.

I'm neutral on this point on if he needs a dair cancel, it could add to his game but I'm not sure if it'd tip the scales to the broken side on high level play. Again that nair should be increased with no increase to the invin frames at all. The deal with changing the move in the first place was to give sonic a simi safe approach move to get him away from just being a reactionary character. As is nair works but requires to much timing to work to this effect with the current range and invinciblity.

 

[Sterowent]

i'm sure many of you have noticed, and i'm sure it's partially viable in brawl, but sometimes i find myself immensely enjoying dash canceling directly from my spindashes and regular dashes by jumping into slopes, leading into standing grabs and ground game mixups. sonic seems like the best character to do this with so far, considering his speed.

anybody keeping tabs on which stages this is possible on?

edit: oh, uh, merry christmas. yeah, don't know why i'm here this early, hah. rough year economically, so not much happening.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

On a ****-ish note: just played 5.0 Sonic and lol'd at DK getting insta 42% by continuous Fthrows, but honestly, i'm not sure but It might still have some frames that allowed DK to move

btw: Merry Christmas

 

[cobaltblue]

So I've been playing the beta online and I'm having a horrible time thinking up ways to counter gannon as sonic. For the most part I can rack up damage fine and dandy on him, however gannon's fair is giving me trouble to counter on recovery or approach against. Any helpful advice against him?

 

[ChronicleX]

Time a Nair correctly to get through it. The Inv frames on Nair help alot vs him and other characters with disjointed hitbox's.

 

[Isatis]

You have to remember this: most of Ganon's moves have horrid priority, even in Brawl+. Sonic's is a tad bit better (compared to everyone else, at least). I doubt timing Nair's would help in this instance, but aiming spindashes into other aerials as an approach and outprioritizing several of his moves with yours will definitely go a long way

 

[ChronicleX]

On recovery a little DI with Nair works wonders, seems to work 90% of the time for me. He asked about recovery not fighting him in general and for recovery Nair is the best option you have outside of a well placed Homing Attack vs Gannons Fair.

 

[cobaltblue]

I'll try the nair and side b thing then. It seems like the window to hit with it though would be pretty tight as clanking without the invin frames would mean death wouldn't it? I've never thought to try side B as I thought the way priority worked in the game would make it pointless as ganon has a crap load of kb and dmg with that move.

Bionic: On ganon's other moves I don't have too much problems. Side b does wonders against his choke hold and wiz kick when timed properly. Only downside is I may clank at times and with the KB on it that throws me hella far. Racking up damage isn't too bad once you get a combo going, its just taking into consideration that 1 move of ganon's is equal to 5 of yours.

 

[Kaotical]

If the Ganon player is SH'ing a lot then Sonic's dash-attack is another good option. Mix up your approaches between dash-attack and spin-dashes, get Ganon off the stage, and gimp him.

 

[cobaltblue]

Any particular good ways to gimp ganon?

 

[ChronicleX]

It really depends but the best way is to spike him into the stage and the best way todo that is a point blank Spring.

 

[cobaltblue]

I see. Figured spring was about the only real safe way but I wasn't attempting point blank ones. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[yami_sora]

Yeah I got in a fair amount of Ganny v. Sonic today and even if it's not at point blank the spring when well timed can be pretty devastating for Ganondorf.

 

[DaiAndOh]

Perhaps a weak nair->spring can work too? As a combo?

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Guys in the next update of Brawl+, PLEASE give Sonic more power/priority in his attacks. Even a slight increase would make a world of difference.

 

[RPGsFTW]

My quick opinion on GSH2 Sonic:

I love him! <3

He feels soooo nice. I love the faster Fsmash buff, and just about everything else. Whenever I need to satisfy my "Who do I wanna play right now?" moments, I pick Sonic. <3

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Sagen: Or you could learn to deal with your character, AND the numerous improvements that have been made to him already.

 

[Veril]

Guys in the next update of Brawl+, PLEASE give Sonic more power/priority in his attacks. Even a slight increase would make a world of difference.

No.


I am really looking forward to the point when people stop asking for buffs in these threads. Isn't there a moratorium on buff discussion in the B+ character specific subforum?

HINT: Get used to GSH2 Sonic. He's got a retardedly good grab/throw game, great combos, and benifits enormously from the extra hitstun, removal of move decay, and addition of dash-canceling (not to mention the various buffs he's been given).


Sonic's dash-cancel is so amazing. If you are thinking "wtf is Veril talking about"... I'm referring to canceling the running animation with a crouch or the initial dash with shield. This was not possible in normal brawl.

Dash-canceling with crouch takes only a single frame, but it is a legitimate tech skill that you should practice if you want to utilize it fully. You cannot "buffer" a move in this manner, it must be properly timed (input at least a frame after you tap down) or you'll just perform a dash-attack/grab/autorar. The dash-cancel also gives you a substantial slide, which makes dash-canceled standing grabs the s***.


tl;dr:
no Sonic Johns
requests for buffs DO NOT BELONG IN THIS SUBFORUM
I am not aware of any new changes being made to Sonic following GSH2.
Learn to dash-cancel.

Sagen: Or you could learn to deal with your character, AND the numerous improvements that have been made to him already.

This. Thank's Sage!

 

[Isatis]

New official set = best set ever for Sonic

Already toying with dash cancels (initiate run, then hold analog stick in the bottom-left or bottom-right) and it's friggin fun.

In training mode at the moment doing dash-canceled grabs and other things as well. When he grabs someone in a dash-canceled grab, my god that is far @_@

Only problem is I've lost the ability to Foxtrot->DACUS...oh well, even though that mindgame is lost, still got others now.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

The new crouch-canceled dash mechanic is simply amazing, for everyone. Sonic definitely got better with it.
And did the n-air always have the stars graphic effect? Maybe it's just me finally paying close attention due to another lack of a changelist at launch...

 

[Isatis]

It has a stars graphic effect?

Didn't notice...