Sonic Tournament Results CHANGING THIS TITLE

[aeghrur]

25th and 25th for brawl, 13th and 13th for melee. Lol, good job malcolm.

 

[thecatinthehat]

lol I did terrible.

I was rusty for Melee. And Melee ****ed up my Brawl game.

Next time kids. Next time.

 

[aeghrur]

If there IS a next time. DUN DUN DUN!

 

[da K.I.D.]

wowwwww...

and i thought I johned...

yall got tore up...

just admit you are bad at the game and move on,
goddang, I knew you werent going to win, but dang, yall got TORCHED

 

[Ryan-K]

u live in backwoods *** rochester lmao like u fight anyone good

 

[aeghrur]

Doesn't M2K live in a pretty small town? o.O

 

[Ryan-K]

yeah but where he lives isn't terribly far from anything of relevance

unlike say...rochester lol

 

[MalcolmM]

yes m2k does live in a small town...and thats why he has a thread up nearly every other week begging people to go to his house and play him. on top of that m2k TRAVELS to other places and regions alot.

 

[aeghrur]

How do people NOT accept the deal to go to M2K's and play with him for like, a week? Oh right, crappy economy, loss of jobs, and expensive flights. But ASIDE from that, why don't people go? Malcolm*cough*

 

[MalcolmM]

I wonder....

 

[Ryan-K]

cuz people are busy doing other stuff lol plus playing only one person over and over and over even if u learn new stuff gets really boring lol

 

[Chis]

I heard M2K was planning to travel to Europe in the future.

 

[da K.I.D.]

u live in backwoods *** rochester lmao like u fight anyone good

yo, son, why dont you come by and play us and see hwo you do...
come to think of it you live right in NYC where the hell do you place in your own area?
GTFO
dont talk smack when you know you cant back it up,
we have about 6-7 dudes that i already know could wax you up and down the place...
lol who are you?

I heard M2K was planning to travel to Europe in the future.

where are getting this info from?
you are mad random with this
im not sayign i dont believe you, but where do you hear this stuff from?

 

[da K.I.D.]

also, i did get some vids with kirk, but i couldnt get any with jesiah, as he left mad early, and me kirk, and a few others were playing till like 3 in the morning

we also played brawl+ and it was effign awesome...

 

[Jim Morrison]

I heard M2K moved to Austria to live his last few years in peace.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lolroflwut?

 

[Ryan-K]

yo, son, why dont you come by and play us and see hwo you do...
come to think of it you live right in NYC where the hell do you place in your own area?
GTFO
dont talk smack when you know you cant back it up,
we have about 6-7 dudes that i already know could wax you up and down the place...
lol who are you?

good question because i don't play this game so I wouldn't know. why don't you come down here because there is nothing or noone of interest up there lol.

everything you say is the very definition of ironic and it doesn't help that you aren't very smart either.

 

[aeghrur]

KID, you got the vids up yet?

 

[da K.I.D.]

nah...
proly mon or tuesday

@ryan...
stop trolling, thats all im going to say to you

 

[Chis]

where are getting this info from?
you are mad random with this
im not sayign i dont believe you, but where do you hear this stuff from?

M2K made a thread in the Europe boards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202722

 

[___X___]

Question everyone QUESTION!!!

so im almost done making my sonic combo vid,

but should a rather make a combo vid of the MEXICAN BRIGADE( me and my bros in one vid) or just continue on my sonic vid? :O

 

[aeghrur]

You should do both.

 

[da K.I.D.]

which ever has the best and most excitign combos

 

[da K.I.D.]

so i figure if i double post and namedrop xyro77 ( or just Xyro, whichever one he name searches) we can move all of the mister 3000 discussion here, like it should be

 

[Xyro77]

argh

so

as i said before. im not a sonic expert or anything(i main samus) but i gots a question. I got some vids of 3000 this past weekend and he was juggling people with D-tilts.......and they were DI-ing. is juggling thing common among sonic kids?

 

[memphischains]

omfg he did

and yes

 

[Xyro77]

ok sweet. cause when i saw it i was like OMG but i guess its nothig special......me sad.

 

[da K.I.D.]

at this point i have to believe that me, and -blue- are the only ones that do something that nobody else on the boards does...

you should see some of my expertise within the next couple of days... lol

either way, i made a thread about d-tilt combos personally about half a week ago

 

[da K.I.D.]

Arena 51 Biweekly
http://www.arena51.com/nuke/modules...opic&t=2294&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
rules are on page 1, result are in the middle of page 3
November 8th, 2008
out of 17
5th-(i was SOOOOOO close to getting money...) K.I.D.Goggles (Sonic, D3, Fox, Wolf)

p.s. if you check the results, ninjalink did not come to my tourney, that is Xiivi. he just likes being stupid...

 

[Xiivi]

5th-(i was SOOOOOO close to getting money...)

lol

Kyle, here's my advice for you based on what I'm seen of your tournament play.
Note: This is not me telling you what you have to do to win. This is me outlining a way I think you could win based on what I've seen from your playstyle. Friendly advice on what I think might help you, nothing more than that. So don't take offense in thinking I'm telling you how to play or anything, this is just what I would do if I had your playstyle.

1) Don't use 5 characters in the tournament.
Q: Why?
A: You're too divided in your gameplay and it shows. Sometimes I see you **** with DDD. Other times I see you **** with Lucario. Then other times I see you suck with DDD. And other times I see you suck with Lucario. This applies to all of your characters. Going so many characters in a tournament and plotting counterpicks in various situations for each and every one of them and flip-flopping in match-ups really hurts you and it shows.
2) Use Lucario against MK.
This match-up is very winnable for you, I've seen you do well in it time and time again and barely lose out a lot of the time.
3) Use DDD against everything else.
Your DDD has plenty of winning potential from you. I've seen it, I know it's there. Focus on DDD, it'll do you plenty of good.
4) Beating specific players.
Neil:
I know some of this stuff sounds silly, but this is based off what will work against Neil. Neil's playstyle is the weirdest out of everyone else's in WNY, so this advice will probably seem the most crazy.
Double blind. He's probably going to lead with MK against you, use Lucario.
Ban Battlefield.
Play the following neutrals defensively against him: Lylat, Delfino.
Play the following neutrals in the mid-range against him: Yoshi's Island, Final Destination, Smashville.
When he counterpicks, it's going to be Norfair, pay attention to whether he's going to go Pikachu or stay MK. He's going to go Pikachu if you played definsively. He's going to go MK if you played mid-range. If he wants to go Pikachu, go DDD. If he wants to go MK, go Lucario. Practice Norfair with both of these characters. Practice preventing him from ledge-camping with Pikachu on Norfair, DDD can handle it. Learn how to b-air through Neil's side-b recovery. Practice Lucario's close-range game on Norfair against MK.
Counterpick Pokemon Stadium 1 if you anticipate the Lucario vs MK match-up again. Learn the edges, and how to take advantage of them both when you're on them and when MK is on them. Practice your spacing with Lucario's f-smash. Set up the tipper at the edge, then step back and pivot f-smash and repeat. Delay your timing when you predict a jump. Practice poking with up-air from below the edge when he gets to close to it and tries to d-smash or d-tilt (he will). F-smash stall in the safe zones on the following: Rock, Fire. Camp on the following: Water, Grass.
Counterpick Jungle Japes if you anticipate the DDD vs Pikachu match-up. Camp on the sides, this will lure him to approach from above you from the top middle platform, use this to your advantage. If you find yourself in the middle while he camps on the side, go to the other side, don't approach the small side platforms. If you are both in the center, threaten to control the platform above with up-tilt. Use your tech-chase game in the middle platform. Pikachu has a poor tech-roll, I know you are good at this. Don't be afraid of up-smash/down-smash to thunder. The stage has a very high ceiling to the point where you can get hit high enough that the thunder cloud will not extend that high up, meaning you'll have high survivability. If your up-tilt is fresh, it will be able to kill around 130% on this stage, watch for that chance. However, you can easily get earlier kills thanks to the layout and use of b-throws and f-throws followed by b-airs against his skullbash when he tries to recover. Avoid the edges, don't get on them, don't try to fight him when he's on them.
Other Neil notes: He has bad tornado cancelling. He isn't familiar with MK enough and doesn't land at the correct height a majority of the time, make sure you take advantage of this. Watch him carefully and see when he tornados, he does it often and predictably. Whenever Neil is not approaching by walking, he's not spacing very well, watch this and outspace him. When he is walking, prepare to powersheild his attempt to poke, and sheild-drop grab or side-tilt.
His Pikachu is insanely crazy at camping, however very predictable with recovery, take advantage of that.
That is my idea for how I would handle Neil if I were you. I also think your Lucario could go against his Pikachu fine, and it is definitely an easier match-up than King Dedede against Pikachu. However Neil's stage tendancies (which are very different than other players' stage tendancies, he has a very unique method of using stages, most Pikachu players would avoid battlefield, but Neil excels there) are all over the place and I think you can get more advantage from correct stage choices with DDD than with Lucario. Normally the best counterpicks for a Lucario vs. Pikachu match would be Battlefield and Luigi's Mansion. Neil manages to ruin those both, it's pretty frustrating. Instead take him to Castle Seige. Remain in the air and in his face during the first transformation. Camp like hell in the second transformation. Go back to being in his face for the third transformation.
Jesse: Later, when I'm not dead tired.
Justin: Later, when I'm not dead tired.
Me: Later, when I'm not dead tired.
Everyone else: You already know how to beat these scrubs, just do it with Lucario/DDD only so you don't end up losing your flow in the early rounds and making mistakes in the later rounds by getting too used to Sonic/Wolf/Garbage Tier Fox. In friendlies, just go Lucario/DDD. It'll put you in the mood for Lucario/DDD ****-age. If you want me to write up other people besides the three I plan on doing, just ask.

Again, not trying to be cocky or tell you that you have to play this way. I just know you do have the potential to win and I only want to say how I think you could use that potential. Just trying to give some friendly tips to a friend.

 

[Jim Morrison]

3) Use DDD against everything else.
Your DDD has plenty of winning potential from you. I've seen it, I know it's there. Focus on DDD, it'll do you plenty of good.

Did you just tell KID to stop using Sonic...

 

[Xiivi]

Did you just tell KID to stop using Sonic...

I don't care about representing characters. I know he plays a very good Sonic, I've played it plenty of times myself with plenty of different characters. However, he keeps complaining about not winning and getting close to winning. This is what I say he should do if he wants to win more. He loves Sonic, he knows Sonic very well, and because of that, everyone here has good Sonic experience. When you get down past the top 10 characters or so, I feel as if your opponent having knowledge about said character makes it very cumbersome for winning purposes. Sonic's a decent mid-tier, but I really don't find it effective to walk into plenty of your match-ups at even/disadvantage and expect to outplay your opponent when they are familiar with your usage of said character.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sonic's matchups on paper suck. On paper punish/baiting is not discussed though, major part of Sonic, so matchups are pretty void for Sonic. It's only basic knowledge on how Sonic will approach/attacks he uses, but not when he's gonna execute them, because that is the punish/bait system.

 

[Xiivi]

Sonic's matchups on paper suck. On paper punish/baiting is not discussed though, major part of Sonic, so matchups are pretty void for Sonic. It's only basic knowledge on how Sonic will approach/attacks he uses, but not when he's gonna execute them, because that is the punish/bait system.

Stop with this. Everyone knows his match-ups look terrible on paper and it creates plenty of bias against Sonic. Yes, everyone has a bad opinion of Sonic and likes to give him zero credit for it all. Don't fuel it further when someone makes a claim in Sonic's favour for once. A major reason for this misconception of Sonic's match-ups from the general community comes from accessing Sonic's running speed. Many people will dismiss running speed, it's become just a thing to do. "Sonic's/Falcon's/Fox's running speed don't matter. It doesn't matter in brawl, look at Snake!" That's great, Snake can do well without a good running speed. That doesn't mean it can't be utilized by Sonic and should be instantly dismissed. There are plenty of these myths and false parallels floating around that cause Sonic's match-ups to seem terrible on paper and not play out like that in the end.

Stop becoming the Roy boards. I don't want to hear it.

Also, I believe he shouldn't be forced to play Sonic for representation purposes. Which is what he seems to have been doing as of late. This is an unnessecary chore. He's got a great Sonic, and could easily beat the majority of players with it. However, the Taj factor comes into play. Taj beat an entire crew with Mewtwo during FCD. Here, he showed off his ability with the character by beating your average run of the mill player easily. However, when it came to the good players, who aren't surprised by Mewtwo, and know how to exploit his weaknesses, he went Marth. You can represent without damaging your tournament placings in the process.

Blah, blah, blah, ignore me, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about, let's all just talk about Steak and how all of Sonic's match-ups are 70-30 in Sonic's opponent's favour, blah, blah, blah, let's improve our metagame and represent ourselves in tournaments by placing high over and over again, but then cave in to everyone else who overlooks all of this and mock them by saying these things, blah, blah, blah.

You guys know Sonic. You're offended that people turn the blind-eye to your ideas as well as your evidence thanks to tournament results. You don't need to sink to the level of the Roy boards. You can clean this board up, it just comes down to if you want to or not.

KID could get easy top 8s with solo Sonic in plenty of regions' local tournaments. He could also do even better focusing on characters that simply suit what I've seen of his playstyle more. He mains Sonic and has worked with Sonic because he loves him. He's grown used to Sonic's playstyle. However, DDD and Lucario seem to come to him just as naturally if not more and he has to ability to do just as well if not better with them in a tournament setting if he focuses on them.

I am not continuing this.

 

[ROOOOY!]

In all fairness, everybody ignored us before we became spammy too, and was actually probably the reason we ended up like this.
We can back up our arguments as much as we want, we have more of a legitimate case for getting out of low tier than any other low tier in there at the moment. We're just seen as maining a novelty character.
To be honest, there's only two or three of us including me who bother enduring people's ignorance about Sonic outside these character boards, and I'm slowly losing the will.

 

[memphischains]

Overswarm told me that no one cares in the SBR

 

[Napilopez]

Xiivi, I think you're advice is well understood. But the thing is, you're posting this in the Sonic boards. Of course KID can play other chars, no one is forcing him to play Sonic. He can win with other chars if he wants. Heck, the fact that he uses other chars at all clearly attests to the fact he is trying to win, while still representing his character. Sometimes that pride is more important than tournaments. Its all contingent upon KIDs own opinions. All I'm saying is that if you wanted to say this, you could have just PMd him, and not announced it to the entire Sonic boards, because it comes off as slightly insulting. Especially when this is one of the most productive and active character boards on all of smashboards. We didn't cause people to turn the blind eye on Sonic, we can't make anyone do anything, that was their own choice.

In fairness however, I do understand you are trying to give KID some constructive criticism, and that you even stated that in your first post. Because it is probably true that he could win these tournies by focusing on these better characters. But he is one of the best and most prominent Sonic mains, who has contributed so much to these boards. To suggest for him to basically leave sonic on the wayside, on these boards in unnecesary. But yea, I'm not even trying to insult you or anything, simply posting as to the way you went about giving him such advice. Even if I disagree with KID on like everything, it would indeed be a loss for the Sonic community if KID focused moreso on other non-sonic chars. But thats not up to the community or anyone else, tis his choice. He can do whatever he wants, and we'd support him. We can only give advice =P

 

[Xiivi]

In all fairness, everybody ignored us before we became spammy too, and was actually probably the reason we ended up like this.
We can back up our arguments as much as we want, we have more of a legitimate case for getting out of low tier than any other low tier in there at the moment. We're just seen as maining a novelty character.
To be honest, there's only two or three of us including me who bother enduring people's ignorance about Sonic outside these character boards, and I'm slowly losing the will.

I'm aware of this. It's very hard and frustrating for all of you to deal with that, I understand. However, you guys aren't going to make it better with how you are acting. You have your reasoning, and can back it up with tournament results. You've seen the bias from the SBR and the general population. You understand your tools and why they are effective and why they aren't effective as well. You have plenty of people who are able to show this in a tournament setting. Despite all of this, you're constantly hit with bias from all angles.

I know it's frustrating. I know it's dumb. I know it's hard to have your own match-up contributions ignored by other character boards.

However, you guys push away new players. You don't make it easy for them to integrate into the Sonic community. I don't care which way you spin it with your reasoning, this simply shouldn't be done. You don't want "n00b Sonics" to give you an even worse image than you already have, I know. But it's becoming stagnating to your community.

You guys are going to be hit with hate; but your response to said hate is terrible. It isn't going to fix it. Mewtwo was hit with plenty of hate. It still hasn't worn off. People want Mewtwo to be the worst character in Melee. He isn't. People want Sonic to be terrible. He isn't.

Welcome new people, integrate them into the boards, back off the constant general discussion. This will inspire more top-notch players such as Anther to become curious as to what Sonic can really do and give him a spin. Once they see it for themselves, they'll warm up. It'll take a long time, much longer than need be, but eventually Sonic won't be shoved along Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf.

Sonic has different tools than the normal character. Most people don't know how to correctly access these tools. My favourite example being running speed. People simply have a bad mindset with figuring out how to correctly analyze this tool and dismiss it under terrible notions such as "Snake is slow and very good. Running speed doesn't matter in Brawl."

Gah, I can't believe this but I think I'm going to start contributing a lot to this board. You guys know your stuff, but sadly you've let yourselves get derailed. Fox boards have already become the new Roy boards, we don't need two of them. Sonic isn't special, but he certainly isn't bad. I'm not letting you guys give up on convincing people of this, which you seem to have done.

Here's a wonderful action plan curtosey of the Marth boards:

Step 1) Get someone who actually knows stuff.
Step 2) Slowly educate the nubs.
Step 3) See who is actually listening to the educated person and talk to them more to clarify perceptions.
Step 4) Flaming idiots and writing a ****-ton of well thought out posts.
Step 5) Start cleaning up the boards. Be active in almost every topic whether it's accurate information or flaming the **** out of someone for posting a worthless post.
Step 6) Repeat step 5. This takes a while.
Step 7) Eventually a group of people are educated enough to pass on you knowledge and think for themselves so the educated person can go play Soul Calibur 4 and not post for 3 days, etc.
Step 8) Repeat steps 5-6 but with the newly educated groups being the educated person/people. Cleaning boards never ends.

At least that's how I always saw the Marth boards evolution. Only not enough people seemed to resepct EL until he had purple...lol

Lucky step 1 is complete.

Long post.

Sigh. I'm not telling him to do what I say. He can go all Sonic, he's done it before. He's slowly stopped that though and it's affecting his play because he's so divided. I simply laid out the best action plan. If you want me to lay out a Sonic action plan, then go for it. I don't see the harm of posting it on the Sonic boards, because you all are all off topic anyway. I'm sorry but I've seen plenty of general chit-chat going on in these threads that could be PM based. I see it in other boards too, such as the Marth boards, which are usually the cleanest boards anyway. It isn't harmful, it's constructive criticism and potential advice. It's my feelings on how KID operates as a Sonic main with many secondaries. It is relevant.

It's too late, you guys aren't getting rid of me now.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm aware of this. It's very hard and frustrating for all of you to deal with that, I understand. However, you guys aren't going to make it better with how you are acting. You have your reasoning, and can back it up with tournament results. You've seen the bias from the SBR and the general population. You understand your tools and why they are effective and why they aren't effective as well. You have plenty of people who are able to show this in a tournament setting. Despite all of this, you're constantly hit with bias from all angles.

I know it's frustrating. I know it's dumb. I know it's hard to have your own match-up contributions ignored by other character boards.

However, you guys push away new players. You don't make it easy for them to integrate into the Sonic community. I don't care which way you spin it with your reasoning, this simply shouldn't be done. You don't want "n00b Sonics" to give you an even worse image than you already have, I know. But it's becoming stagnating to your community.

You guys are going to be hit with hate; but your response to said hate is terrible. It isn't going to fix it. Mewtwo was hit with plenty of hate. It still hasn't worn off. People want Mewtwo to be the worst character in Melee. He isn't. People want Sonic to be terrible. He isn't.

Welcome new people, integrate them into the boards, back off the constant general discussion. This will inspire more top-notch players such as Anther to become curious as to what Sonic can really do and give him a spin. Once they see it for themselves, they'll warm up. It'll take a long time, much longer than need be, but eventually Sonic won't be shoved along Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf.

Sonic has different tools than the normal character. Most people don't know how to correctly access these tools. My favourite example being running speed. People simply have a bad mindset with figuring out how to correctly analyze this tool and dismiss it under terrible notions such as "Snake is slow and very good. Running speed doesn't matter in Brawl."

Gah, I can't believe this but I think I'm going to start contributing a lot to this board. You guys know your stuff, but sadly you've let yourselves get derailed. Fox boards have already become the new Roy boards, we don't need two of them. Sonic isn't special, but he certainly isn't bad. I'm not letting you guys give up on convincing people of this, which you seem to have done.

Here's a wonderful action plan curtosey of the Marth boards:


Lucky step 1 is complete.

I've never actually considered the entire situation "frustrating", but I can easily see why anyone would percieve it as such.

Recently I've been just wondering about the activity on the Sonic boards, and have realized exactly how bad off we are. I mean, I just spammed a picture of a blue hedgehog with a steak in a random topic, rather than just letting it die and whatnot.

I do agree though, in that actions need to be taken to enrich this board.

And that Ganon/Jiggz/etc comment makes me cry. I main/secondary Sonic/Jiggz. Both boards are...meh.

As for those who know the "stuff". Tenki has a redonculous amount of knowledge on how Sonic works, and KID/Blue do fantastic in their region. I'm pretty sure CiTH, X, Napi, darkNES, and myself can also contribute to any "repair" projects that may/will take place in the near future.

I'm all up for the idea.

As long as I keep the Winning Steak Cinemas, I'll be good.

Spoiler

Oh, and the Steak stays. No exceptions.

It's too late, you guys aren't getting rid of me now.

On the contrary, I'm quite glad that you've shown your face here, of all the boards there are.

As for your section directed at Napi: That's why I play Sonic and only Sonic. Yes, there will be match-ups that feel 'nigh-impossible, but the more practice I get with solo-Sonic, the more enriched I become when it comes to those certain matchups.

I mean, I've been getting closer and closer to DMK's MK everytime we meet (although I want some REAL MK practice. Silly DMK keeps knocking me out of tournaments before I get to the juicy parts).

 

[Napilopez]

I'm sorry but I've seen plenty of general chit-chat going on in these threads that could be PM based. I see it in other boards too, such as the Marth boards, which are usually the cleanest boards anyway. It isn't harmful, it's constructive criticism and potential advice. It's my feelings on how KID operates as a Sonic main with many secondaries. It is relevant.

It's too late, you guys aren't getting rid of me now.

Semi-touche! =P

And actually, I think it would be nice to have you around the boards XD.

So, by all means, welcome.

Submit to Steak.