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Sonic Tournament Results CHANGING THIS TITLE

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Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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And that Ganon/Jiggz/etc comment makes me cry.
I know these characters plenty well. Goggles can attest to that himself. If you look at my sig, I take pride in saying I 'main' everyone. I can rattle off frame data for any character that has presented it on their board, I've watched every character board for some time. I don't consider myself 'expert' status with anyone, but I certainly am not completely dumbfounded by random characters which many people seem to be confused by easily. I was simply saying that Sonic is simply better enough than those characters to place himself in a higher status than they can.

As for your section directed at Napi: That's why I play Sonic and only Sonic. Yes, there will be match-ups that feel 'nigh-impossible, but the more practice I get with solo-Sonic, the more enriched I become when it comes to those certain matchups.
I understand this. It's a path Goggles could easily take. However, I feel that isn't the direction for him. He once was nothing but Sonic over the summer, but now I've seen him experimenting more and more with these other characters. He could probably do fine with just about anyone he chooses to work on. Sadly, he's simply not choosing at this point. He's dividing himself, I know he'd do better if he didn't.

OS told me that no one cares in the SBR
I don't care. If I lay out every single point about Sonic and not a single person outside of the Sonic boards listens, I could care less. I'm not crusading for Sonic to move up the tier list. I crusading for Sonic's stengths, weaknesses, match-ups, etc... to be accurately and fully displayed on the boards without clutter and spam and general hate being thrown around. Cleaning up this board is my mission. Not moving Sonic up the tier list. If he drops to dead last, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me, is that what is displayed on this character board is fully accurate for new players. In a few years, there will be players entering the Brawl scene much like they did in Melee. They will need to be easily integrated into the character of their choice with full knowledge of the characters strengths, weaknesses, and general tools. They need to learn how to emphasis their stregths and hide their weaknesses as well as possible. Learning about the inside jokes can come later.

I just saw this board is starting down the wrong path and I am fixing it.
 

ROOOOY!

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I distinctly remember that we tried this before.
And failed.
A lot of our actually good information that's needed is already in stickies/being worked on now. Brawl is a game without depth, we've endlessly discussed things amongst ourselves.
The information is there, yet people choose not to read it, even after (often friendly) prompting.
 

Espy Rose

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I know these characters plenty well. Goggles can attest to that himself. If you look at my sig, I take pride in saying I 'main' everyone. I can rattle off frame data for any character that has presented it on their board, I've watched every character board for some time. I don't consider myself 'expert' status with anyone, but I certainly am not completely dumbfounded by random characters which many people seem to be confused by easily. I was simply saying that Sonic is simply better enough than those characters to place himself in a higher status than they can.
True. I tend to study characters through Youtube matches and the like to understand how they approach and how to deal with them.

The character discussion matchup threads on each of the boards also helps out in understanding that much.

Oh, and the entire statement was suppose to be a joke. I wasn't implying that it was wrong. I'm just sad that my favorite two characters are in the slums.

I understand this. It's a path Goggles could easily take. However, I feel that isn't the direction for him. He once was nothing but Sonic over the summer, but now I've seen him experimenting more and more with these other characters. He could probably do fine with just about anyone he chooses to work on. Sadly, he's simply not choosing at this point. He's dividing himself, I know he'd do better if he didn't.
I don't have any say on this, except that I'm going to start calling KID Goggles now. It's just much more awesome.

I don't care. If I lay out every single point about Sonic and not a single person outside of the Sonic boards listens, I could care less. I'm not crusading for Sonic to move up the tier list. I crusading for Sonic's stengths, weaknesses, match-ups, etc... to be accurately and fully displayed on the boards without clutter and spam and general hate being thrown around. Cleaning up this board is my mission. Not moving Sonic up the tier list. If he drops to dead last, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me, is that what is displayed on this character board is fully accurate for new players. In a few years, there will be players entering the Brawl scene much like they did in Melee. They will need to be easily integrated into the character of their choice with full knowledge of the characters strengths, weaknesses, and general tools. They need to learn how to emphasis their stregths and hide their weaknesses as well as possible. Learning about the inside jokes can come later.

I just saw this board is starting down the wrong path and I am fixing it.
Ditto, except on the last statement.

-----

Also, I made a temporary sig using MS paint. It's so cool.
 

thecatinthehat

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As for those who know the "stuff". Tenki has a redonculous amount of knowledge on how Sonic works, and KID/Blue do fantastic in their region. I'm pretty sure CiTH, X, Napi, darkNES, and myself can also contribute to any "repair" projects that may/will take place in the near future.

I'm touched. I really am.
 

memphischains

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you guys better stop ignoring that i'm throwing my neck out because you guys refuse to leave the sonic boards.

i'm pretty sure i have a really bad rep with the people in the sbr other than the people i know personally

i'm hurt puff :(
 

thecatinthehat

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you guys better stop ignoring that i'm throwing my neck out because you guys refuse to leave the sonic boards.

i'm pretty sure i have a really bad rep with the people in the sbr other than the people i know personally
I've been here since Day 1. Aint going nowhere.
 

ROOOOY!

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I'm not on the help list..
That means I'm free from responsibility.
SPAM GALORE.

:093:

Nah but really, I'll help out around here I guess.
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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I distinctly remember that we tried this before.
And failed.
Do not care. I will live. At this point on time here is the status of your board:

  • Knowledgeable members are present.
  • Plenty of data is present and currently being worked on.
  • There are still write-ups that are either incomplete or still in the early phases as Brawl's metagame will change down the road. (As much as you would love to point out Brawl is a shallow game, there are simply things that will change and need to be re-written and developed further.)
  • Knowledgeable members have become frustrated and resorted to general spam and idle chit-chat in addition to Sonic discussion.
  • Other boards show an inability to listen to the Sonic boards. (This is a non-issue.)
  • New players are scared and turned away quickly instead of being integrated. (This is an issue.)
  • Data is quickly overshadowed by the spam users have resorted to and constant bashing of their own character. People simply won't waste the time looking at the data presented when they feel even the Sonic community thinks their character is a joke.
I am not going on a mission to prove to the SBR/Other Character Boards/Pros that Sonic deserves a certain spot on the tier list. That is not the goal, however it would be nice if it happened somewhere along the way. The goal is to have the Sonic boards become clean with accurate data available and not overshadowed by a sardonic/pessimistic tone from the knowledgable players. New players need to be able to glance at these boards and get a feel like they have the information available to them to begin learning and understanding Sonic. At this point, if I was new to smashboards, I would find it hard to become integrated into the Sonic community and give up hope in learning and turn to a board that is clean such as the Marth boards.

I don't have any say on this, except that I'm going to start calling KID Goggles now. It's just much more awesome.
It's hard for me to not call him Kyle. I first learned of him as Kyle and I have a hard time calling him KID or Goggles. Even though he requests that.
----
Action plan:
1) Limit spamming and chit-chat to a single, casual thread. We do not need steak jokes in every post of every thread. We do not need to be making multiple joke threads and chat threads or bringing these topics to other threads. You guys already have threads for this, pick one and stick with it.
2) Remove the negative feelings the board displays. This is what needs to happen for new players to actually be able to begin picking up Sonic, I can't stress how important this is.
3) Deal with it. I don't care if all of Smashboards is against Sonic and hates him and wants to see him at the very bottom of the tier list in SBR V2.0. I don't care if no one outside of the Sonic forums listens to what Sonic players have to say. That's not the point. The point is accurate information of the character.
4) Defining Sonic. This means, preparing neat, organized threads that specifically lay out the following:
Sonic's Moveset, down to every specific detail about the frame data.
Introduction to Brawl's physics and how Sonic fits in with this. (Not only techniques that apply to Sonic, but those that don't. Explaining how Sonic's weight, fall speed, horizontal air mobility, the use of autocanceling, etc... all affect this character and their importance in Brawl in general. This is making everything n00b friendly. In a few years, if Brawl is still competivly active, new players will not be heading to the tactical boards first to learn about stutter-stepping and such. They will be coming to this board first out of their interest. They need to be introduced to Brawl and subsequently, Sonic in brawl.)
Sonic theory. How Sonic should work at top level play, and how to practice such that you learn exactly what needs to be done to read this level. (Proper ability to zone, space, avoid camping, etc...)
What makes Sonic special? Why should you bother learning Sonic?
Tools. What does Sonic have? What doesn't Sonic have? Why does it matter?
5) Displaying information. Providing and updating links to top level Sonic play as well as tutorial videos. Providing accurate and easy to read and access match-up explainations for those who wish to read the information.
6) Other characters. It simply cannot be expected for people to read a match-up explaination without knowledge of the other character. Providing easy-access links/explainations of how other characters work before explaining how they work against Sonic specifically. Simply saying "Ganondorf is bad against Sonic. Do this to win." won't cut it. Detailing the why Ganondorf is considered a bad character and why Sonic can take advantage of Ganondorf's weaknesses with his strengths and why Ganondorf is unable to use his strengths against Sonic's weaknesses. Why is Meta Knight amazing and amazing against Sonic and why Sonic's tools can be effective against Ganondorf but ineffective against Meta Knight.
7) Stage selection and etc...Let's cover all bases here. We're not going to be satisfied until we outdo CunningKitsune's Melee Fox Complete Guide.
8) DEAL WITH IT. No more bashing your own character in an attempt to patronize those who refuse to listen in a sardonic manner. If we find Sonic is the worst character in the game, too bad, we're still detailing how he can win and also why he shouldn't win. If we find Sonic is the best character in the game, awesome, we're still detailing why he should win and how he could potentially lose. If no one else agrees with us, we'll look at why they don't agree. If they don't agree because they refuse to educate themselves, then we can do nothing but DEAL WITH IT and ignore them. If they disagree with reasoning, the it will be accounted for.

I do think that at some point in time, be it a month or a year or ten, those who matter will educate themselves more about Sonic. However it will not happen if these boards become the Roy boards. It will only happen if everything is clean and well-presented. It may not happen, but it has a better chance of happening if we go by this.

These are my goals. They should be your's too if you care. I know you do.
 

ROOOOY!

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He's converted.
GG guys.
Ehh, I'm working on a moveset thing now, it's disorganized atm, just because I'm throwing down random notes. It's going to turn into what kinda moves to use against an:

Aggressive character X
Defensive character X
Aerial character X
Grounded character X

But..it's going a bit slow at the minute.
 

Tenki

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In all fairness, everybody ignored us before we became spammy too, and was actually probably the reason we ended up like this.
We can back up our arguments as much as we want, we have more of a legitimate case for getting out of low tier than any other low tier in there at the moment. We're just seen as maining a novelty character.
To be honest, there's only two or three of us including me who bother enduring people's ignorance about Sonic outside these character boards, and I'm slowly losing the will.
10psychologists

Did you just tell KID to stop using Sonic...
Stop becoming the Roy boards. I don't want to hear it.
thiiis


However, you guys push away new players. You don't make it easy for them to integrate into the Sonic community. I don't care which way you spin it with your reasoning, this simply shouldn't be done. You don't want "n00b Sonics" to give you an even worse image than you already have, I know. But it's becoming stagnating to your community.

...

It's too late, you guys aren't getting rid of me now. ;)
We actually don't flame newcomers to the Sonic boards that much.

It's only when the newcomers don't do their 'homework', get linked to informational threads, and still don't seem to be getting it, or incessantly try to contribute to matchup threads while bringing up things that don't work against competent human players.

Sonic mains' reputations, I could care less about, but when it comes to serious matchup discussion and someone brings up punishing things like PK flash (...when is it ever used directly?) or Pokemon Change (shouldn't be used when the opponent is on-stage) as serious matchup points, that becomes annoying to deal with.

There have been a few 'newcomers'/lurkers who started posting here more recently and they generally got answered/feedback in the way you're pushing for. We don't have a problem with newbies or people who don't main Sonic, just people who expect us to handfeed them everything when we have resources that explain things for us.

I don't care. If I lay out every single point about Sonic and not a single person outside of the Sonic boards listens, I could care less. I'm not crusading for Sonic to move up the tier list. I crusading for Sonic's stengths, weaknesses, match-ups, etc... to be accurately and fully displayed on the boards without clutter and spam and general hate being thrown around. Cleaning up this board is my mission. Not moving Sonic up the tier list. If he drops to dead last, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me, is that what is displayed on this character board is fully accurate for new players. In a few years, there will be players entering the Brawl scene much like they did in Melee. They will need to be easily integrated into the character of their choice with full knowledge of the characters strengths, weaknesses, and general tools. They need to learn how to emphasis their stregths and hide their weaknesses as well as possible. Learning about the inside jokes can come later.

I just saw this board is starting down the wrong path and I am fixing it.
That's good. Tier list crusaders are horrible reps, especially considering that the list is just a 'grading' overall and doesn't necessarily affect gameplay.

I distinctly remember that we tried this before.
And failed.
Chis made that thread.
 

Anther

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I found the gold beneath the Steak, and beneath the gold was even more steak. Sonic's too good =]. I actually used him to beat a marth that gave my pika lots of trouble in the past T.T. It was close and scary, and general underestimation could've played a part, but I'll use those sort of advantages all day if I can :].

Xiivi said:
This will inspire more top-notch players such as Anther to become curious as to what Sonic can really do and give him a spin.
Hehe pun XD
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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Another thing I've noticed is the alarming amount of stickied threads. Believe it or not, plenty of stickies threads shows a lack of ability to organize and bring everything together. It confuses new players as exactly what they need to be reading first and how it all relates. As wonderful as Tenki's guide to side-b and down-b is, it can easily be very confusing to a newcomer if they feel it is something they need to start with. This is something that can be integrated into a more complete guide through use of a link to the individual post or something of that sort. We don't want people attempting to start with ASC, combos, set-ups, etc... What we want are people learning things such as Sonic's spacing and moveset understanding/application first. High use of multi-coloured fonts in posts only serve to confuse players as to what they need to be getting out of posts and serve as a distraction. Emphasis on the basics is important.

Clicking on the Sonic forum and being greeted with 6 or 7 high-detailed reading extensive stickies is a major deter that lures new players into avoiding this and simply asking simple questions that will earn them negative light as the Sonic players will feel like the question could have been answered if they read the stickies.

Easy reading with good, clean information is needed. It's a good thing.

Luckily, there is a lot of information and well-versed players on the Sonic boards. It should be fairly easy to clean things up I hope.

How many wall-o-texts did I just write now?
 

ROOOOY!

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In all honesty, we should contact a mod now about stickies.
I don't think anybody (except Tenki xD <3) would be against unstickying the Kuja...basics? thread.
It could even be included in Thread Index Zone if absolutely necessary.
 

memphischains

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if you guys are serious about the stickies, talk to xsyven. hes the only mod that's even remotely friendly that posts here. ask him in a member's page post

second, someone should combine all the stickies LIKE I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR 2O0394OQ23IY492I3UY4I2U3Y4IWUEHFL KJASDFL JKAH YEARS.

and i don't really like the idea of a guy who doesn't play sonic coming down here and telling us what to do, and also i see minor fail in the future
 

Tenki

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As wonderful as Tenki's guide to side-b and down-b is, it can easily be very confusing to a newcomer if they feel it is something they need to start with. This is something that can be integrated into a more complete guide through use of a link to the individual post or something of that sort. We don't want people attempting to start with ASC, combos, set-ups, etc... What we want are people learning things such as Sonic's spacing and moveset understanding/application first. High use of multi-coloured fonts in posts only serve to confuse players as to what they need to be getting out of posts and serve as a distraction. Emphasis on the basics is important.

Clicking on the Sonic forum and being greeted with 6 or 7 high-detailed reading extensive stickies is a major deter that lures new players into avoiding this and simply asking simple questions that will earn them negative light as the Sonic players will feel like the question could have been answered if they read the stickies.

Easy reading with good, clean information is needed. It's a good thing.

Luckily, there is a lot of information and well-versed players on the Sonic boards. It should be fairly easy to clean things up I hope.

How many wall-o-texts did I just write now?
Yeah, I'm working on simplifying that thread. Images and stuff to help clear things up.

The problem is, it really does seem to be a pretty complicated move. If someone wants to know the difference between the two moves, there's a TL;DR. I break down the move, lol.
 

aeghrur

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Hm, speaking of the basics, how about we edit my thread, mix it with other threads like Tenki's Lern2player, sticky that, and remove the other stickies? :O
 

da K.I.D.

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ok, ok, ppl your master is back...
with the exception of the part where he said Goggles, stop playing sonic, and the part where he said we need to stop with the goofy, off topic ness, you may take everything that xiivi has said and take it as my opinion...
only problem is that it makes it a lot harder to bait and punish people, when they know all of what you are capable of...
also
*pimplap*
who gave you permission to speak my real name?
MC: like i told you before, ppl would listen to you, if you werent always making snarky, vaguely flamish, one liners... this is the first time ive seen you say some thing legitamate in a good two months. as far as your posting goes, i agree with sonic
"Come on! Step it up!!"
i said it about 3 weeks ago, that the stickey situation is an issue...
at one point the D3 boards had 7 stickeys, and someone made a thread about how they have too many stickeys...
last time i checked we have 8, this could be because sonic is a very deep hard to anylyse character. but it could be what xiivi said, and that its hard to find info ppl are looking for which leads them to ask stupid basic questions which leads us to get upset.
we need basics, like kuja's old thread, merged with Rooooy's new moveset thread, we need a (updated) matchup thread, a chat thread, and basically everything else should be in the TIZ and the TIZ should have an FAQ included in the specific thread for basic stuff.

since box is going back to melee, cat and chis are the only ones who we need to worry about being stupid and flaming/spamming people, everyone else is chill 580 just needs to learn to look before he speaks

but Xiivi, you need to know 3 things straight up,
a. i specifically went into the tourney trying to get listed as playing 5 characters (i played enough to deserve being listed for 4 chars.) but if you think that its hurting my game, i will reconsider.
2. As the leader of these boards, i will never stop playing sonic in tourneys, unless all I play is MK and snake. i play lucario, and less often fox, for MK and wolf/D3 for snake. trust me on that one, i whooped on asylums snake with wolf.
IV. the memes and inside jokes should never cease, thats what gives the sonic boards their personality... i like the fact that its easy to find things on the marth boards... but we arent them and we shouldnt try to be them. imitating the things they do correctly is much different than copying everything they do to the last detail. yes we can be better organised but we dont have to give up our souls to do it.


and just so its clear to everybody,

XIIVI IS NOW AN OFFICIAL STEAKLING
GIVE HIM THE SAME HONOR THAT YOU WOULD GIVE ME

listen to him, but do not be afraid to take away his steak, should he step out of line...


p.s. my wall of text is better than yours
i could teach you but id have to charge
 

da K.I.D.

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and just so we are clear:

I AM HEREBY BANNING ANY AND ALL REFERENCES TO MAGIKARP AND GRIMER IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE SONIC BOARDS. with the exception of avatars
 

da K.I.D.

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why dont YOU check that thread

that is an instance where its ok to flame the hell out of ignorant ppl that refuse to learn things about the character
 

Tenki

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@memphis:
So, a...
- general Sonic guide (moveset - including side-B and down-B)
- AT's list/stuff

I can do that, but I don't really want it to be mixed with a video thread lol.

and just so we are clear:

I AM HEREBY BANNING ANY AND ALL REFERENCES TO MAGIKARP AND GRIMER IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE SONIC BOARDS. with the exception of avatars
LOL

Steak Break Room vs the other SBR.

edit:
In PSI2's defense, he repented of his sins.
 

Espy Rose

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eff that guy...

oh yea, we need a video thread too, btw xyro put up vids of 3000 in his thread...
What about mine? ;_;
Wouldn't the Winning Steak Cinemas be moderate to sticky? I could also fix it up s'more if need be.

I'll see about those 3000 vids too, so I can add them to the collection of videos.
Oh, and lol @ Goggles being the Sonic board's leader.
 

wangston

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Is Tenki the top yet? He is awesome. I played a match last night and dedicated it to Tenki. I <3 Tenki. Tenki do you think you could take __X__ in a match he is pretty good. But I think you can beat him.
 

Napilopez

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Would just like to point out that performance in a Sonic Ditto does not mean one or the other is the better Sonic, it just means the victor knows/can fight that specific matchup better. He is awesome though.
 

Tenki

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Awe, the site went down when I replied.

in short, I said I'm not the top Sonic lol.




btw, apparently, F-air > ASC.

Any aerial > ASC.

XD
 

Camalange

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btw, apparently, F-air > ASC.

Any aerial > ASC.

XD
WHAT.
But ASC is GOD. Explain yourself!

Better in the sense of damage, or as an approach?
 

Napilopez

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He's probably referring to priority, like cat said.

Any aerial with any semblance of disjointedness should be able to beat out the ASC. With the exception of Olimar's Pikmin based aerials, those are weird.

ASC has great priority against projectiles and some grounded moves, idk lol.
 

Tenki

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Yeah, I meant prioritywise.

I was playing online against Zero (the 'random' Sonic main that A2ZOMG brought up in the GAW discussion) and I noticed he was beating me out of ASC pretty often with that. So for once I went aerial-aggro, attacking ASC's and such (and in turn, it got me a bunch of free hits cause he was committing to charging ASC/HA when I hit him out of them).

`.`;


edit:

continue this in the side-B thread?
 

lil cj

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eff that guy...

oh yea, we need a video thread too, btw xyro put up vids of 3000 in his thread...
Ive never noticed that the Sonic boards didnt hav a vid thread...lol
I'll be glad to make one....i made one for the Lucas boards and its the best Vid thread on Smashboards
it has tons of vids...check it out: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188898

Ive missed so much on the Sonic boards...lol
Wat is this steak everyone is talking about???
I bet theres alot of other techniques that hav been discovered
 

Tenki

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Ive never noticed that the Sonic boards didnt hav a vid thread...lol

...

Ive missed so much on the Sonic boards...lol
Wat is this steak everyone is talking about???
I bet theres alot of other techniques that hav been discovered
- There IS a video thread. It's just not stickied.

- The steak is.

- Not really.
 

Camalange

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Camalange
3DS FC
1160-9836-5007
Switch FC
SW-4197-1438-9208
We DO have a video thread...
The Winning Steak Cinema, I'm not too sure what KID was thinking...

EDIT: Godd***it Tenki, do you beat EVERYONE to EVERYTHING??
 
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