Chis
Finally a legend
Anyone who say Charizard is a counter should be ignored.
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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread
- Thread starter Chis
- Start date
Kinzer
Mammy
A solid one at least, I MIGHT be able to see it as 55:45 or 6:4, but only if they're really convincing.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i agree, i think the basics dictate a 50-50 against charizard
Kinzer
Mammy
Why don't we just wait and see what they have to say? >.>
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
im not suggesting that we go without their input. im just agreeing with you.
unless youre saying that we should go with out their input... which i dont think you are
unless youre saying that we should go with out their input... which i dont think you are
rock smash gives charizard the edge.
i'm serious. the damage output has a huge impact because sonic cannot kill charizard very well, at all. so now sonic's stock is suddenly in danger of a dtilt/ftilt/utilt/usmash/bair KO after two solid rock smashes. damage wise, sonic will have a very tough time keeping up with charizard. you will have to be REALLY aggressive and pressure charizard very well for that to happen. and again, charizard isn't slow by any means (probably the fastest heavyweight, overall), so this isn't like sonic comboing a ganondorf or bowser. rock smash has a habit of getting charizard out of sticky situations, because suddenly there's a huge potential hitbox sitting right in front of charizard for 20 frames or so, and then maybe 10+ frames afterward when he headbutts it.
the thing about sonic's approaches, as i see it, is that they have issues with rock smash. nothing sonic has is disjointed (afaik, correct me if i'm wrong). this means that every attack is vulnerable to a well placed rock smash. true, you can shield cancel a dash or ASC, but shield cancel into a rock smash just once and your shield will take a huge beating. you'll be unable to safely shield cancel into that move for a while afterward. flamethrower helps here because it is excellent at shield damage, should sonic shield it. you will need mindgames to get around the rock smash, and the fact that you need mindgames to overcome something sends the signal that you are at a disadvantage in that situation.
i know i'm hyping rock smash up quite a bit, but charizard doesn't even need to spam this move to make a big mark on the game. and he shouldn't spam it because it leaves him more vulnerable to some kind of mindgame. but it just takes two good hits to take sonic halfway through his stock. zard still has his insane grab, solid jab (which cancels), tilts, and 5 frame usmash. flamethrower is underrated. it does come out in like 20 frames but it hits sonic through everything. i see sonics usually approach on the ground (flamethrower yesss) or through like...a spin charge at full hop height (flamethrower can be angled up, although it's riskier in this situation).
just think about the fact that charizard can do the equivalent of a sonic combo, like the ASC video a few posts back, in one move.
overall, i think charizard has a solid 6-4 advantage. it's not a counter, but sonic has to work a lot harder than charizard does to make it an even bout. combination of rock smash, lots of kill options for charizard, and great recovery/weight + lack of kill options for sonic, imo.
comments and shiz please!
i'm serious. the damage output has a huge impact because sonic cannot kill charizard very well, at all. so now sonic's stock is suddenly in danger of a dtilt/ftilt/utilt/usmash/bair KO after two solid rock smashes. damage wise, sonic will have a very tough time keeping up with charizard. you will have to be REALLY aggressive and pressure charizard very well for that to happen. and again, charizard isn't slow by any means (probably the fastest heavyweight, overall), so this isn't like sonic comboing a ganondorf or bowser. rock smash has a habit of getting charizard out of sticky situations, because suddenly there's a huge potential hitbox sitting right in front of charizard for 20 frames or so, and then maybe 10+ frames afterward when he headbutts it.
the thing about sonic's approaches, as i see it, is that they have issues with rock smash. nothing sonic has is disjointed (afaik, correct me if i'm wrong). this means that every attack is vulnerable to a well placed rock smash. true, you can shield cancel a dash or ASC, but shield cancel into a rock smash just once and your shield will take a huge beating. you'll be unable to safely shield cancel into that move for a while afterward. flamethrower helps here because it is excellent at shield damage, should sonic shield it. you will need mindgames to get around the rock smash, and the fact that you need mindgames to overcome something sends the signal that you are at a disadvantage in that situation.
i know i'm hyping rock smash up quite a bit, but charizard doesn't even need to spam this move to make a big mark on the game. and he shouldn't spam it because it leaves him more vulnerable to some kind of mindgame. but it just takes two good hits to take sonic halfway through his stock. zard still has his insane grab, solid jab (which cancels), tilts, and 5 frame usmash. flamethrower is underrated. it does come out in like 20 frames but it hits sonic through everything. i see sonics usually approach on the ground (flamethrower yesss) or through like...a spin charge at full hop height (flamethrower can be angled up, although it's riskier in this situation).
just think about the fact that charizard can do the equivalent of a sonic combo, like the ASC video a few posts back, in one move.
overall, i think charizard has a solid 6-4 advantage. it's not a counter, but sonic has to work a lot harder than charizard does to make it an even bout. combination of rock smash, lots of kill options for charizard, and great recovery/weight + lack of kill options for sonic, imo.
comments and shiz please!
Browny
Smash Hater
the disjoint on sonics fsmash is bigger than that of rocksmash
thats all i know for sure
thats all i know for sure
so fsmash is disjointed? anything else that sonic has on disjoint?
idk how fsmash vs rsmash would work...disjointed hitboxes like projectiles still cause the boulder to smash into shards, so perhaps sonic would still take damage. speculation though.
idk how fsmash vs rsmash would work...disjointed hitboxes like projectiles still cause the boulder to smash into shards, so perhaps sonic would still take damage. speculation though.
Browny
Smash Hater
click my sig 
im working on it... Uair is lol
also another thing to note is the disjoint isnt just up until sonics visible body. Attacks such as usmash have a hurtbox about half the diameter that you can see, and in uair, Sonics feet might as well be invincible on the second hit, it outranges just about everything when the enemies attacks clearly are in contact with sonics body. If the disjoint on fsmash can outrange that of rocksmash, id say its at least from the max range of the attack up until the beginning of the glove on his hand, probably further :O
im working on it... Uair is lol
also another thing to note is the disjoint isnt just up until sonics visible body. Attacks such as usmash have a hurtbox about half the diameter that you can see, and in uair, Sonics feet might as well be invincible on the second hit, it outranges just about everything when the enemies attacks clearly are in contact with sonics body. If the disjoint on fsmash can outrange that of rocksmash, id say its at least from the max range of the attack up until the beginning of the glove on his hand, probably further :O
i think you confused hurtbox with hitbox 
. ie sonic's usmash hits you from further away than what it appears, instead of opponents can hit sonic from further away than it appears.
good to know that you can't attack through uair very well, although ivy and zard's dairs are too slow regardless. it looks like sonic's uair beats squirtle's dair though.
do you mean that the disjoint on fsmash is the length of sonic's glove or...? i'm a little confused here.
. ie sonic's usmash hits you from further away than what it appears, instead of opponents can hit sonic from further away than it appears.good to know that you can't attack through uair very well, although ivy and zard's dairs are too slow regardless. it looks like sonic's uair beats squirtle's dair though.
do you mean that the disjoint on fsmash is the length of sonic's glove or...? i'm a little confused here.
Browny
Smash Hater
---
this is of course provided hitboxes are square... but its extremely difficult for me to prove this. Its entirely possible his hurtbox isnt shrunk at all, but attacks like snakes uptilt hit in an arc, so of course you would have to stand closer to hit sonic while in the upsmash. but in the end it doesnt make a difference, since you either get hit by the upsmash or you clank with it.
----
infact screw it all this is just gonna confuse everyone, me included
I mean the disjoint is from the very edge of the hitbox (which is invisible, extending beyond the glove' all the way down the the start of his glove connected to the wrist.
ohhhh ok it was kind of confusing, sorry. interesting note there dj.
hmmm if that's the hitbox, and the disjointedness goes to about sonic's wrist...it doesn't look like that's greater than the width of the boulder, and most definitely not when you include shards and stuff.
hmmm if that's the hitbox, and the disjointedness goes to about sonic's wrist...it doesn't look like that's greater than the width of the boulder, and most definitely not when you include shards and stuff.
Browny
Smash Hater
it may not look like it, but a few days ago in my matches vs tcranter twice my fsmash hit charizard while he rocksmashed and sonic didnt get hit. Ive also seen it do this to zeldas fsmash. Im not talking about the fsmash hitting first either
of course spacing an fsmash to beat a rocksmash is completely unfeasible anyway. Ill just shield it and run away until the sheild regenerates lol
of course spacing an fsmash to beat a rocksmash is completely unfeasible anyway. Ill just shield it and run away until the sheild regenerates lol
sonic is such a wussy, runnin away from everything...
do you recall the timing of when you hit through rock smashed? like, was it just the main boulder out, were there shards out, was charizard in the process of headbutting, etc
do you recall the timing of when you hit through rock smashed? like, was it just the main boulder out, were there shards out, was charizard in the process of headbutting, etc
infomon
Smash Scientist
Yeah... I'd guess that since the rock stays out for so long, you released the Fsmash late enough that the rock wasn't even a hitbox anymore. *shrug*
Browny
Smash Hater
btw im probably making it sound like rocksmash isnt a big deal, but im not, i know rocksmash *****
not in this matchup alone, i mean rocksmash ***** everyone and everything. Sonic just happens to be affected by it more than other characters
not in this matchup alone, i mean rocksmash ***** everyone and everything. Sonic just happens to be affected by it more than other characters
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
B-air is pretty disjointed... And stutterstep F-smash gives me babies . But yea, Rock Smash is all hyped up. You do realize that if you have a 2nd jump you can jump out of ASClol. O_o.
. But yea, Rock Smash is all hyped up. You do realize that if you have a 2nd jump you can jump out of ASClol. O_o.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
sonic i think just has more tools to bait and force a rock smash whenever he wants to, and he can either run past it, roll around it or jump over it. and if i had to shield one, i would just run away to get my shield back too. not to mention that 90% of the time, if we are going to get hit by rocksmash, we can spring on reaction.
p.s. dj, i think your hit box circles for up air and fsmash are way too small. im 95% sure that the hitboxes go farther than your pictures illustrate.
p.s. dj, i think your hit box circles for up air and fsmash are way too small. im 95% sure that the hitboxes go farther than your pictures illustrate.
Boxob.
Smash Lord
Uair, Utilt, Fsmash, Bair, Fair, Spring drop, SideBhop(?) are all disjointed.
Napilopez
Smash Lord
SideB hop is invincible and then super high priority until the peak of the hop, so disjointedness doeasn't matter =P.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Super high priority? No way. The invincible frames can make it look like it has high priority, but the hop's hitbox does a measly 5% at best, staled by everything. And it's not disjointed, and the hitbox comes out after some lag after release. >.>
infomon
Smash Scientist
...? You could say that to pretty much anyone. The answer to flamethrower is not to walk into it, and if you do, to quickly DI out. Sonic's "approach" is to jump/spinshot over it and hit him during the lag.
yeah, many sonic players, have tried that, it kinda gets predictable, and powershield just destroy that also wouldn't sonic the platforms on stages like BF? and if that's his only approach, wouldn't rock smash also blow that up?
edit: wouldn't it make more sense if a PT played a sonic player? i'm up for a match, we could test out charizard :/
also wouldn't sonic the platforms on stages like BF? and if that's his only approach, wouldn't rock smash also blow that up?edit: wouldn't it make more sense if a PT played a sonic player? i'm up for a match, we could test out charizard :/
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
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inb4downtiltjokes
What what?
A Spinshot is where Sonic moves at high speed horiztonally through the air. We aren't talking about Homing Attack
Flamethrower is very very easily dodged and leaves you vunerable to Sonic spinshooting over you to punish the lag zard has when he stops using flame thrower
If zard is at the edge, Sonic can spin shoot over him and Bair him from behind
What what?
A Spinshot is where Sonic moves at high speed horiztonally through the air. We aren't talking about Homing Attack
Flamethrower is very very easily dodged and leaves you vunerable to Sonic spinshooting over you to punish the lag zard has when he stops using flame thrower
If zard is at the edge, Sonic can spin shoot over him and Bair him from behind
you mean the charge spindash, then the jump?
sorry i'm a noob at sonic xDnvm, just looked at a video, which brings me to the point of, isn't it a little short ranged?
Chis
Finally a legend
I'm ready to play, but I'm feeling shaky for reasons I will not discuss.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
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Hmm, I think you're looking at the wrong vidyou mean the charge spindash, then the jump?
nvm, just looked at a video, which brings me to the point of, isn't it a little short ranged?
A Spin Shot, when performed correctly, can cover just over half of Final Destination very quickly. Hang on, I'll try find a video...
flamethrower is nice because sonic's approaches are often right in flamethrower's path, but it's too slow to rely on in this matchup. it's a solid move and makes for a pretty good approach on sonic (if you ever approach sonic lol...) but you can't use it against sonic's approaches as well as rock smash. it's more vulnerable to feints and the like. charizard's more vulnerable if you fail. flamethrower's about as useful as it usually is in matchups, which is alright.
flamethrower (and rock smash) on a sonic at the apex of the spring jump is nice though, since afaik sonic can't sweetspot the ledge on the way up.
sonic will need some solid mindgames to get around rock smash. the amount of options sonic has from his spins makes me think that the best policy with rock smash is to use it a few times per stock but not just EVERY time sonic seems to be approaching. that way, rock smash's effectiveness won't be negated that much by whatever mindgame tactic sonic has up his sleeve. charizard still has usmash, dtilt, utilt, jab (really solid range for a jab), grab, although none are as effective as rsmash.
can sonic be grabbed out of a spindash? obviously you'll need really solid timing if it's possible, but the range on zard's grab makes me think it could be.
flamethrower (and rock smash) on a sonic at the apex of the spring jump is nice though, since afaik sonic can't sweetspot the ledge on the way up.
uair ***** people from below. ): utilt is interesting, but it seems to me like you'll need precise spacing to protect sonic from a rock smash. fsmash idk. bair seems a little awkward to rock smash counter. just how disjointed is it? fair seems like a good answer to rock smash. it won't work all the time but if charizard does happen to try to rock smash that attack, you may still get through and hit zard, if what some sonics have said is true. SideBhop seems to be solid bait for Rock Smash if you don't get through during the invincibility.The Legendary Boxob said:
sonic will need some solid mindgames to get around rock smash.
the amount of options sonic has from his spins makes me think that the best policy with rock smash is to use it a few times per stock but not just EVERY time sonic seems to be approaching. that way, rock smash's effectiveness won't be negated that much by whatever mindgame tactic sonic has up his sleeve. charizard still has usmash, dtilt, utilt, jab (really solid range for a jab), grab, although none are as effective as rsmash.can sonic be grabbed out of a spindash? obviously you'll need really solid timing if it's possible, but the range on zard's grab makes me think it could be.
flamethrower is nice because sonic's approaches are often right in flamethrower's path, but it's too slow to rely on in this matchup. it's a solid move and makes for a pretty good approach on sonic (if you ever approach sonic lol...) but you can't use it against sonic's approaches as well as rock smash. it's more vulnerable to feints and the like. charizard's more vulnerable if you fail. flamethrower's about as useful as it usually is in matchups, which is alright.
flamethrower (and rock smash) on a sonic at the apex of the spring jump is nice though, since afaik sonic can't sweetspot the ledge on the way up.
uair ***** people from below. ): utilt is interesting, but it seems to me like you'll need precise spacing to protect sonic from a rock smash. fsmash idk. bair seems a little awkward to rock smash counter. just how disjointed is it? fair seems like a good answer to rock smash. it won't work all the time but if charizard does happen to try to rock smash that attack, you may still get through and hit zard, if what some sonics have said is true. SideBhop seems to be solid bait for Rock Smash if you don't get through during the invincibility.
sonic will need some solid mindgames to get around rock smash.
can sonic be grabbed out of a spindash? obviously you'll need really solid timing if it's possible, but the range on zard's grab makes me think it could be.
yes sonic can be, i remember a sonic player telling me that pivot grab will grab a sonic.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
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Sonic can be grabbed out of his spindashes. It's very hard but incredibly satisfying to pull off
Does zard have a grab release on Sonic?
Does zard have a grab release on Sonic?
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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I'm pretty sure it's a dtilt from release, but you can spring away in time, as you've got 7 (?) frames to react, whilst Spring comes out on frame 5.
Rock Smash is a problem. Steeler, the first pic on this thread is the hitbox for bair.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211629
Fairly disjoint. You can Spinshot over and bair, even if you end up in front of him, Sonic's bair has a hitbox in front of him too (weaker, does 9% D; )
Flamethrower is...overhyped greatly >_< I'm not sure why a Sonic would roll into the ****, when he can jump out of spindashes/charges, and shield/jump cancel them when you're charging them. Obviously you're not going to avoid them all the time, but mostly I'd imagine, due to Sonic's safe approaches.
Iono, it's Charizard's advantage slightly, but I'm more inclined to say 45:55 and not 40:60. The pivotal thing here is that Sonic finds Charizard difficult to kill. He shouldn't be living past 160% though >_>
I don't find Rock Smash and Flamethrower too hard to deal with. Sonic can deal with it better then most.
Rock Smash is a problem. Steeler, the first pic on this thread is the hitbox for bair.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211629
Fairly disjoint. You can Spinshot over and bair, even if you end up in front of him, Sonic's bair has a hitbox in front of him too (weaker, does 9% D; )
Flamethrower is...overhyped greatly >_< I'm not sure why a Sonic would roll into the ****, when he can jump out of spindashes/charges, and shield/jump cancel them when you're charging them. Obviously you're not going to avoid them all the time, but mostly I'd imagine, due to Sonic's safe approaches.
Iono, it's Charizard's advantage slightly, but I'm more inclined to say 45:55 and not 40:60. The pivotal thing here is that Sonic finds Charizard difficult to kill. He shouldn't be living past 160% though >_>
I don't find Rock Smash and Flamethrower too hard to deal with. Sonic can deal with it better then most.
Chis
Finally a legend
No Roy. The Bair has a sex-kick effect. The front, back and Sonic's body do 13%.
pivot grabbing could have a really nice use in this matchup then. :O good defensive tool to mix in there.
sonic can deal with aggressive rock smashes really well. run speed and spring. defensive rock smash is what should give sonic the most problems. when charizard rock smashes in response to something sonic is doing, or is about to do.
i get the feeling that bair is like sonic's best attack.
rooooy nailed flamethrower on the head, sonic shouldn't be getting hit by it often. so charizard shouldn't be using it often. very good option to mix in though, if sonic doesn't expect it. especially if the flamethrower is short hopped.
charizard's dtilt (8 frames too good), bair (7), utilt (9), usmash (5 wtf), rock smash are going to be the most effective KO moves for charizard. all kill in like low 110-120% range, except maybe utilt.
ftilt kills in the same range but is slower than the others. dsmash comes out in frame 14 and kills vertically, solid move but tough to land. lol fsmash. fair comes out on frame 9 but has the strange hitbox. knockback is only in the inner cone of the breath. regardless, the outer cone has good range and stuns the opponent so zard can di into you for the knockback. it's tricky and doesn't work 100% because it's dependent on the opponent's di, but an option i need to mention. zard can also start the fair above you and fastfall into you. fair is very deadly off stage though, don't write it off because of its properties. it's like a horizontal spike, almost impossible to survive once you get into mid to upper percents.
of course, sonic can just spring whenever zard is close and he'll be safe. just be careful. rock smash off stage would probably be the best bet against a sonic that likes to spring out of trouble.
so yeah, sonic's kill options compared to charizard's, along with zard's damage output makes me more inclined to call it 40:60 charizard's favor. if charizard KOs sonic and sonic comes back on the next stock, charizard can make a huge dent in sonic's next stock before dying, because of the survivability and damage output. the point is that both sides are pretty close to each other on their estimates, so that's good. i'm so glad you sonic guys are cool about this, i've run into some pretty nasty/stubborn people before. idk what people are talking about when they say sonics are uncivilized heathens...
edit i can't find any videos of the spinshot ):
sonic can deal with aggressive rock smashes really well. run speed and spring. defensive rock smash is what should give sonic the most problems. when charizard rock smashes in response to something sonic is doing, or is about to do.
i get the feeling that bair is like sonic's best attack.
rooooy nailed flamethrower on the head, sonic shouldn't be getting hit by it often. so charizard shouldn't be using it often.
very good option to mix in though, if sonic doesn't expect it. especially if the flamethrower is short hopped.charizard's dtilt (8 frames too good), bair (7), utilt (9), usmash (5 wtf), rock smash are going to be the most effective KO moves for charizard. all kill in like low 110-120% range, except maybe utilt.
ftilt kills in the same range but is slower than the others. dsmash comes out in frame 14 and kills vertically, solid move but tough to land. lol fsmash. fair comes out on frame 9 but has the strange hitbox. knockback is only in the inner cone of the breath. regardless, the outer cone has good range and stuns the opponent so zard can di into you for the knockback. it's tricky and doesn't work 100% because it's dependent on the opponent's di, but an option i need to mention. zard can also start the fair above you and fastfall into you. fair is very deadly off stage though, don't write it off because of its properties. it's like a horizontal spike, almost impossible to survive once you get into mid to upper percents.
of course, sonic can just spring whenever zard is close and he'll be safe.
just be careful. rock smash off stage would probably be the best bet against a sonic that likes to spring out of trouble.so yeah, sonic's kill options compared to charizard's, along with zard's damage output makes me more inclined to call it 40:60 charizard's favor. if charizard KOs sonic and sonic comes back on the next stock, charizard can make a huge dent in sonic's next stock before dying, because of the survivability and damage output. the point is that both sides are pretty close to each other on their estimates, so that's good. i'm so glad you sonic guys are cool about this, i've run into some pretty nasty/stubborn people before. idk what people are talking about when they say sonics are uncivilized heathens...
edit i can't find any videos of the spinshot ):
UzakiuzuG
Smash Journeyman
Will somebody brawl me with their Sonic. Just want to see how my Falcon will compare
Chis
Finally a legend
Wrong place. Go to the wifi thread.
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
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People bias against the character = bias against the mains too, so they say mean things about us ;_;
Lol, we're not that bad. We went through a period where we had "wuts the difrince between side b adn downs b" threads everyday so we got pissed, but we're alright now.
I can't find any vids about spinshot either. It's important, someone needs to do an infovid on it D;
To be honest, I don't find it 40:60, but could see how it could be so if it is decided to be as much then I'd be in agreement. I'm guessing this 110-120% killing range is from centre of Final D with DI?
I just feel that Sonic has a little bit of versatility in killing. Bair will be killing offstage at around the same % as Charizard would be killing Sonic optimumly (is that a word lol?) and thanks to it being disjoint and Sonic having a high top air speed (acceleration being brilliant with Spinshot) I feel that it's probably the #1 way to kill Charizard.
So would we say :
45:55 against Squirtle
60:40 against Ivysaur
40:60 against Charizard (if everyone agrees)
50:50/45:55 against PT
????????????
Lol, we're not that bad. We went through a period where we had "wuts the difrince between side b adn downs b" threads everyday so we got pissed, but we're alright now.
I can't find any vids about spinshot either. It's important, someone needs to do an infovid on it D;
To be honest, I don't find it 40:60, but could see how it could be so if it is decided to be as much then I'd be in agreement. I'm guessing this 110-120% killing range is from centre of Final D with DI?
I just feel that Sonic has a little bit of versatility in killing. Bair will be killing offstage at around the same % as Charizard would be killing Sonic optimumly (is that a word lol?) and thanks to it being disjoint and Sonic having a high top air speed (acceleration being brilliant with Spinshot) I feel that it's probably the #1 way to kill Charizard.
So would we say :
45:55 against Squirtle
60:40 against Ivysaur
40:60 against Charizard (if everyone agrees)
50:50/45:55 against PT
????????????
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
how the hell can you people not find spinshot vids?
i searched sonic spinshot on youtube and it was the first freaking vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XPazo3otHo
skip to :52 to see what sonic will do to flamethrower...
ps. i feel like steeler and some others are getting the impression that sonic is going for kill moves at the same percentages that charizard is....
and thats dumb. sonic is incredibly good at avoiding damage, and if the player cna avoid getting hit, he cna just tact on damage until the moves that he is using kill anyway.
i have absolutely no problem spring camping and spamming spindash hop to up air combos until hes ready to kie from an up air. if the sonic plays safe he shouldnt have a problem getting in the damage until char dies from an up throw, which will probably be around 230%
for that reason I call it 50-50 since theres always a chance of sonic messing up and spring down airing into an up smash
i searched sonic spinshot on youtube and it was the first freaking vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XPazo3otHo
skip to :52 to see what sonic will do to flamethrower...
ps. i feel like steeler and some others are getting the impression that sonic is going for kill moves at the same percentages that charizard is....
and thats dumb. sonic is incredibly good at avoiding damage, and if the player cna avoid getting hit, he cna just tact on damage until the moves that he is using kill anyway.
i have absolutely no problem spring camping and spamming spindash hop to up air combos until hes ready to kie from an up air. if the sonic plays safe he shouldnt have a problem getting in the damage until char dies from an up throw, which will probably be around 230%
for that reason I call it 50-50 since theres always a chance of sonic messing up and spring down airing into an up smash
Browny
Smash Hater
http://i41.tinypic.com/282gzes.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/10dwcih.jpg
like i explained in my thread, thats how i did it. I found the maximum range, in pixels, of the top of u-air from sonics feet to be 10.4% of the length of the platform in battlefield. So i measure the length of the platform on the second pic where im not hitting anything, mutiply that by 10.4% and theres the range of the attack.
I cant think of a more accurate way to do it... I also do them by inspection too, trying to determine the vertical range of fmsash for example is so difficult i just take the best guess i can
although now i look at it... my proper pic for uair does seem to have the hitbox about 10 pixels to low, its only supposed to go to his eyebrows lol. ill fix that >_>