Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[ShadowLink84]

I Pikachu's multi hit moves are fair, bair, and dsmash. Dsmash will stop any ground approach you have when timed properly.

The Fair and Bair are actually not high priority. If Pikachu does not use his Fair befor Sonic does, he will exchange hits with Sonic.

If sonic Bairs that of Pikachu's bair, Pikachu's Bair will be broken.

Pikachu does not have more aerial priority than Sonic.

Just spamming dsmash is asking to get punished by Sonic, but since Pikachu's dsmash is near instant, it's a good defense.

not really. Considering how quick a Sonic user can cancel their movement, you might as well ask for an Fsmash.

Bair as surprising priority.

Dude it doesn't its that the spacing between the characters isn't proper so you're exchanging hits rather than actually observing the priority. Again if the spacing is right you'll have your aerials broken by Sonic's Bair, otherwise you will exchange hits if you attack the same time.
Let alone that Sonics Fair is actually faster than pikachu's in start up.

I'd say since Pikachu can fight sonic in a close quarter combat as well as pressure him at a long distance, Sonic suffers a disadvantage. ;o I need to play a sonic again with pika though.

I would say around 60:40 Pikachu. Mainly from when I played Anther but I had no experience back then.

 

[Ussi]

The Fair and Bair are actually not high priority. If Pikachu does not use his Fair befor Sonic does, he will exchange hits with Sonic.

If sonic Bairs that of Pikachu's bair, Pikachu's Bair will be broken.

Pikachu does not have more aerial priority than Sonic.

I wouldn't remember soo I'll just say for now I was wrong, but Pikachu's fair is disjointed. But Sonic's fair is like his highest/2nd highest priority move in his moveset.

not really. Considering how quick a Sonic user can cancel their movement, you might as well ask for an Fsmash.

ehh I already learned that the hard way. Hence why I said spamming is asking to get punished

Dude it doesn't its that the spacing between the characters isn't proper so you're exchanging hits rather than actually observing the priority. Again if the spacing is right you'll have your aerials broken by Sonic's Bair, otherwise you will exchange hits if you attack the same time.

Disjointed = great priority in general, I meant it has surprising priority for a non disjointed move. ~_~ I know how dis jointed things work, my character is all about that.

Let alone that Sonics Fair is actually faster than pikachu's in start up.

Something I don't know


I would say around 60:40 Pikachu. Mainly from when I played Anther but I had no experience back then.
Anther mains both Pikachu and Sonic, I wonder what his take is on this ;o

10Pikachus

 

[ROOOOY!]

Fair doesn't have great priority, only average.
There are plenty of moves of Sonic's with more priority.
Uair, bair, fsmash to name three.

Learn now that Sonic's priority 'problem' is WAY overstated, there are characters who have worse priority than Sonic.

Anyway, I wanna know what Anther says.
Someone summon Anther
[/playing too much Final Fantasy X]

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Man, I haven't play this game in a while, but came back today to get sonic skills back. So, anyway on the topic of this Sonic vs pika. i think pika would just **** the crap out of sonic on the ground, with most of his smashs. I have had a chance to get **** by a pika player. It wasn't pretty.

 

[ShadowLink84]

ussi please don't quote like that, it makes it tons more difficult to respond.

I wouldn't remember soo I'll just say for now I was wrong, but Pikachu's fair is disjointed. But Sonic's fair is like his highest/2nd highest priority move in his moveset.

Actually Sonic's Fair is slightly dsjinted on startup and end time of the move. hence you'll always exchange hits when the Fairs meet up.

ehh I already learned that the hard way. Hence why I said spamming is asking to get punished

k

Disjointed = great priority in general, I meant it has surprising priority for a non disjointed move. ~_~ I know how dis jointed things work, my character is all about that.

Of course but pikachu's bair and Fair won't break anything except Sonic's Nair. he either clashes (depending on spacing) or possible gets his aerial broken (in the case of Uair and Bair)

Let alone that Sonics Fair is actually faster than pikachu's in start up.

Anther mains both Pikachu and Sonic, I wonder what his take is on this ;o

We shall ask!

 

[Napilopez]

It irks me a bit everytime I hear about Sonic's priority "problems". Because they are non existant. If there were an "Overall Priority Score", Sonic would be nowhere lower than average.

I will digress from the matchup discussion a bit just to try to get rid of that misconception. People's issues with Sonic's priority arose when Sonic first started to be played. At this time, people spammed SideB and DownB like crazy from the ground. And there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that they would prolong these attacks, after their attack power and speed had degraded significantly. This is when the attack has poor priority. Other than that, just about everything else Sonic has is no worse than average, and he gets boosted by the invincibility frames he has lurking around in several of his moves. The only moves I would say has "poor" priority is homing attack, but thats usually when its trying to hit an aerial, as its lack of disjointedness will often make it be beat out. Other than that everything is average at worst. Nair isnt disjointed, but can clang with several grounded moves and specials, and it comes out very quickly, counteracting its lack of disjointedness.

Thats it. Sonic does not have poor priority.

Anyways, about the matchup, spacing is key for Sonic, perhaps more so than in other matchups. He needs to take care to stay just out of his range. Like, spam ftilt, lol. I find ftilt actually to be your best spacing tool here. Also, remember that Sonic isn't the most succeptible to "combos", because spring escapes stuff very easily if not done frame perfect. But are they true combos? I'm trying to open up the list of true combos, but the page doesnt wanna load =/

 

[ROOOOY!]

Why Has No One Noticed KASR Is Back?!

:D

Steak

 

[Tenki]

ASC seems like it could be the best for this. I'm not sure, but I believe it can come in over most of Pikachu's attacks. Also it can always be shield canceled for the fore mentioned psyche outs.

Thoughts?

ASC as bait = yes

ASC as direct attack = no

Pikachu can beat out spindashes pretty easily, hence the "lol i outprioritize sonic!" fanfare, since of course, spindash is the only move Sonic can do.

In the air, you're better off using other aerials for damage instead of specials

Tenki, the Sonics I play don't tend to grab me more than a few times a match (even when they try to grab much more). Play better Pikachus, lol.

Of course, aerial Pikachu players are harder to grab. Generally the moves that I grab Pikachu from are:

whiffed grabs (eh, general thing, not matchup specific)
side-B (... I'm pretty sure that's because they suck lol - I don't see why a Pikachu player would actually use side-B for anything except recovery)
D-smash
F-smash
Grounded Thunder [sliding shield into it]

Man, I haven't play this game in a while, but came back today to get sonic skills back. So, anyway on the topic of this Sonic vs pika. i think pika would just **** the crap out of sonic on the ground, with most of his smashs. I have had a chance to get **** by a pika player. It wasn't pretty.

..!!

Why Has No One Noticed KASR Is Back?!

:D

Steak

..!!!!

 

[Kinzer]

Does a properly spaced uncancelled Dair outprioritize Pikachu's Dsmash?

Just throwing that out, Im pretty sure it could work.

Also a fully charged Grounded SC will actually cancel a Tjolt, although will stop Sonic in place. I think the same can be said about a charged SD.

 

[Napilopez]

I guess the reason I don't see Pika as such a challenge on the ground is that none of his moves are particularly ranged, except for Fsmash. If you maintain yourself right at the edge of Sonic's ftilts range, then you should be able to run in and shield grab many of his attacks. QAC is a pain if I'm not moving around, and hence, I like to move around more than usual in this matchup.

EDIT:

Does a properly spaced uncancelled Dair outprioritize Pikachu's Dsmash?

Just throwing that out, Im pretty sure it could work.

Also a fully charged Grounded SC will actually cancel a Tjolt, although will stop Sonic in place. I think the same can be said about a charged SD.

Umm I'm not sure about Dair VS Dsmash, idk.

SC and SD are now not my most recmmended standard approaches here, even from close. You're better off running/walking and powershielding. That, or you can spinshot and space your landing appropriately, or you can use SideB invincy frames to get past the first sunderjolt, then do one any of a gagillion other approach options.

 

[M15t3R E]

=]

I guess the reason I don't see Pika as such a challenge on the ground is that none of his moves are particularly ranged, except for Fsmash. If you maintain yourself right at the edge of Sonic's ftilts range, then you should be able to run in and shield grab many of his attacks. QAC is a pain if I'm not moving around, and hence, I like to move around more than usual in this matchup.

EDIT:



Umm I'm not sure about Dair VS Dsmash, idk.

SC and SD are now my most recmmended standard approaches here, even from close. you're better off running/walking and powershielding. That, or you can spinshot and space your landing appropriately, or you can use SideB invincy frames to get past the first sunderjolt, then do one any of a gagillion other approach options.

D-tilt and t-jolt will also make Pikachu's ground game a pain for Sonic. Sonic can also be combo'd pretty easily by Pikachu (something that hasn't been mentioned yet).
The rest of what you said is accurate.

As for Dair vs. D-smash...
Pikachu's D-smash has overwhelming priority. If you Dair into a Pikachu's D-smash, you'll get sucked in and spit out like a rag doll. That's the way it is. React quickly and Smash-DI if it happens. Pikachu's D-smash > Sonic's Dair.

 

[Kinzer]

Well yeah if you're misplace the Dair and land on it's side, but I mean how far will Pikachu's hitboxes go vertically when he performs the Dsmash?

I'm thinking if you Dair right down ONTO Pikachu, it will penantrate right through the electricity and hit the rat, though I'm not sure.

 

[M15t3R E]

=]

I just tested it to make sure.
Sonic's Dair can penetrate through the last few frames of the D-smash animation. But for every frame of the D-smash before that, Sonic's Dair cannot penetrate through it.
This is because Pikachu's D-smash loses priority as the animation progresses, which explains why it's such an easy punishing move but can also be Smash-DI'd out of easily.

 

[the ricemaker]

No. lil sis used to play as Pika. Do not dair on top of pika. Eats any thing up. In general, when above Pika, just DI away.

 

[Tenki]

SC and SD are now my most recmmended standard approaches here, even from close. you're better off running/walking and powershielding. That, or you can spinshot and space your landing appropriately, or you can use SideB invincy frames to get past the first sunderjolt, then do one any of a gagillion other approach options.

Whatever happened to walking and shielding?

How safe is Pikachu on shield?

 

[Napilopez]

D-tilt and t-jolt will also make Pikachu's ground game a pain for Sonic. Sonic can also be combo'd pretty easily by Pikachu (something that hasn't been mentioned yet).
The rest of what you said is accurate.

As for Dair vs. D-smash...
Pikachu's D-smash has overwhelming priority. If you Dair into a Pikachu's D-smash, you'll get sucked in and spit out like a rag doll. That's the way it is. React quickly and Smash-DI if it happens. Pikachu's D-smash > Sonic's Dair.

I believe someone mentioned the comboing earlier, and I refuted that by saying that Sonic can spring away from most anything pikachu will try, or most anything any char will try, lol. Spring is and awesome combo breaker lol. I am assuming however that for the most part you mean attack strings, and not true hitstun combos.

I'm pretty sure Sonics dtilt is about as effective as Pikas in this matchup. Thunderjolt being spammed is annoying though =P.

 

[Napilopez]

Whatever happened to walking and shielding?

How safe is Pikachu on shield?

WOOPS LOL.

I meant to type "NOT my most recommended method of approaching." Lulzzzz, I will rarely if ever recommend plainly using a spindash/charge as an approach.

Edit:

Darn double post!

BUAHAHAHA YAY DOUBLE POST. I IZ INTERWEBZ REBEL.

 

[Tenki]

It's been mentioned by the Pika main, but Pikachu can chaingrab Sonic at low%. The best thing to do is to DI away (I'm not sure if it's better to DI away, up+away, or up), but either way, spam jump, and I think you should be able to escape.


Ohyah, DON'T BE SPRING HAPPY.

Pikachu's mind:
- lolol look he tried to spring out of my combo!
- *starts combo agai-* JK
- PIKAAAAAAAAA
- Sonic springs and gets hit by thunder while still vulnerable to hits.

Or alternatively:
- Sonic springs and Pikachu delays a thunder and Sonic airdodges into it.

 

[Napilopez]

It's been mentioned by the Pika main, but Pikachu can chaingrab Sonic at low%. The best thing to do is to DI away (I'm not sure if it's better to DI away, up+away, or up), but either way, spam jump, and I think you should be able to escape.


Ohyah, DON'T BE SPRING HAPPY.

Pikachu's mind:
- lolol look he tried to spring out of my combo!
- *starts combo agai-* JK
- PIKAAAAAAAAA
- Sonic springs and gets hit by thunder while still vulnerable to hits.

Or alternatively:
- Sonic springs and Pikachu delays a thunder and Sonic airdodges into it.

Lol this is truth. Springing out of combos isnt that bad... Just don't spring too much. As I said before... you really don't wanna be caught by thunder at the peak of your spring jump XD.

Hmm what else. I don't see any good way sonic can gimp pika, so his gimp game definately suffers. His UpBs movemnt is too quick and random for Sonic to really do anything against that. I dont think Pika will have the easiest time gimping Sonic either though.

EDIT:
On a random note, I was watching some SSB1 vids, when I mained pika. Pika's voice was REALLY REALLY annoying back then, wow. I never even realized till now, perhaps because of the change in voice.

His Tjolt was all an annoying high pitched "pikaachiiuuu". Although his newer prolonged "pikaaachuuuuuu" that sounds as if pikachu were in amazed wonderment that he can shoot electricity out of his cheeks is annoying as well.

But god.. His downB in SSB1 is sooo funny/annoying. "PIKKAAAHH" In a really suddenly deep sounding voice haha.

Wow, I go off on tangents.

 

[Tenki]

Hmm what else. I don't see any good way sonic can gimp pika, so his gimp game definately suffers. His UpBs movemnt is too quick and random for Sonic to really do anything against that. I dont think Pika will have the easiest time gimping Sonic either though.

In general, I almost don't even try to gimp people off-stage, so I just take advantage of it and use off-stage to get some easier damage.

People are generally more predictable off-stage especially when recovering, and this goes for Pikachu as well - so you can use that to damage them.

Recovery tends to be side-B > Quick attack, or just quick attackx2.

If they're under the stage, they'll eventually aim for the ledge or they'll aim for just above the edge.

If they're near the edge, sometimes they'll go for the center of the stage, or aim to QAC on you to combo into an aerial.

 

[Napilopez]

In general, I almost don't even try to gimp people off-stage, so I just take advantage of it and use off-stage to get some easier damage.

People are generally more predictable off-stage especially when recovering, and this goes for Pikachu as well - so you can use that to damage them.

Recovery tends to be side-B > Quick attack, or just quick attackx2.

If they're under the stage, they'll eventually aim for the ledge or they'll aim for just above the edge.

If they're near the edge, sometimes they'll go for the center of the stage, or aim to QAC on you to combo into an aerial.

Good points. Me being usually gimp happy, I don't know what to do when I'm forced to stay onstage =P.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Oh, by the way, this is one of the few times Sonic's "You're too Slow!" Taunt is ineffective. Pikachu will respond by mixing it up between "Pika Pika" and "Pikaaaaaaa" into "Pi-ka-chu!" thunderjolt spam. At this point, Sonics "Pi" and "Ka" sound receptors will short out, causing him to enter a state of madness and commit suicide. Auto-win for Pikachu.

 

[Tenki]

We need more pika mains.

 

[aeghrur]

Oh, by the way, this is one of the few times Sonic's "You're too Slow!" Taunt is ineffective. Pikachu will respond by mixing it up between "Pika Pika" and "Pikaaaaaaa" into "Pi-ka-chu!" thunderjolt spam. At this point, Sonics "Pi" and "Ka" sound receptors will short out, causing him to enter a state of madness and commit suicide. Auto-win for Pikachu.

Our steak can stop the electricity. Your electricity will just cook our un-cooked beef and make it become steak. We finish the "You're too Slow!" taunt, eat our steak, and continue on.

 

[Napilopez]

Our steak can stop the electricity. Your electricity will just cook our un-cooked beef and make it become steak. We finish the "You're too Slow!" taunt, eat our steak, and continue on.

This is THE best comeback in the history of comebacks.

Anyways, I feel like we need more matchup experience here =/ Doesn't seem like many of us have played a good pika lately/much, and the same seems like it can be said of the Pika mains. Perhaps some of you guys should set up a match? I'll play a pika main over the weekend, but chances are I'll be very rusty.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I'm not positive on this, but I thought Pikachu could be hit out of any part of its up b. So if you guess which way they're going with it, and use something like a nair since the attack stays out for a while, you should be able to apply more pressure off stage. I could be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've ko'd a few Pikachu's out of quick attack.

 

[Napilopez]

I'm not positive on this, but I thought Pikachu could be hit out of any part of its up b. So if you guess which way they're going with it, and use something like a nair since the attack stays out for a while, you should be able to apply more pressure off stage. I could be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've ko'd a few Pikachu's out of quick attack.

That would probably be the best tactic if you are going to go for the offstage gimp, but its still difficult nevertheless. Its a good idea though and I'll try to put it to use.


If only Sonic had his SA2 homing attack... XD

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

It would be amusing if Sonic's homing attack followed Pikachu throughout his quick attack.. That move would be so broken, lol.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Our steak can stop the electricity. Your electricity will just cook our un-cooked beef and make it become steak. We finish the "You're too Slow!" taunt, eat our steak, and continue on.

Silly hedgehog, electricity is for noobs!

A real Pika main uses the power of endless syllable repitition to slowly irritate you into an explosive rage-filled state of insanity so that you kill youself.

Heck, I'd bet half of all pikachu users are a little insane. You'd have to be to put up with your own "Pika Pika!"ing every single match.

I actually quit maining pikachu because every good attack he has includes the word "Pika."

Pikachu's best attacks are

Side Taunt - "Pika Pika!

Down Taunt - "Pikaaaaaa"

thundershock -"Pi-ka-chu!"

sidesmash - "Piiii-ka!"

Thunder - "Pika!"

Quick Attack - "Pi-Pi!"

Dsmash - "Pika!"

Note how every one of them includes "Pi," and 6 out of 7 include "ka"

Never underestimate how annoying this is. Pikachu may very well be better than Sonic at irritation tactics.

By the way, Don't bother trying to gimp Pikachu. you might as well try gimping MK, he'd probably be easier. Pikachu's recovery is simply too fast, and with headbutt, you can guarentee he'll have enough jumps to get around you.

There's no harm in it, but attempting the gimp is useless.

 

[aeghrur]

Silly hedgehog, electricity is for noobs!

A real Pika main uses the power of endless syllable repitition to slowly irritate you into an explosive rage-filled state of insanity so that you kill youself.

Heck, I'd bet half of all pikachu users are a little insane. You'd have to be to put up with your own "Pika Pika!"ing every single match.

I actually quit maining pikachu because every good attack he has includes the word "Pika."

Pikachu's best attacks are

Side Taunt - "Pika Pika!

Down Taunt - "Pikaaaaaa"

thundershock -"Pi-ka-chu!"

sidesmash - "Piiii-ka!"

Thunder - "Pika!"

Quick Attack - "Pi-Pi!"

Dsmash - "Pika!"

Note how every one of them includes "Pi," and 6 out of 7 include "ka"

Never underestimate how annoying this is. Pikachu may very well be better than Sonic at irritation tactics.

By the way, Don't bother trying to gimp Pikachu. you might as well try gimping MK, he'd probably be easier. Pikachu's recovery is simply too fast, and with headbutt, you can guarentee he won't have a problem getting around you.

There's no harm in it, but attempting the gimp is useless.

Please, YOU'RE TOO SLOW!!! Remember that Sonic can run faster than sound?
Besides, as Sonic mains, we'll be munching on steak while you noobs will be looking and be distracted by its awesomeness. You'll salivate and droll on your controller while looking at our steak and not pay attention. Meanwhile, Sonic would win while your staring at our steak. Afterwards, we're just gonna be like, no noob, steaks are for sonics.

Seriously, on the match up, um, Pikachu's favor obviously.
Small, good recover/hard to gimp, good priority D-smash, and thunder against spring. Also chain grab at low %s. >_< Ugh.

 

[Tenki]

there is too much Sonic in this character discussion.

seriously, get some Pika friends over here. for the name search, even though he probably doesn't...

Anther

And yes, Phoenix, you can hit Pikachu out of his up-B if you have your attack out.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

there is too much Sonic in this character discussion.

seriously, get some Pika friends over here. for the name search, even though he probably doesn't...

Anther

And yes, Phoenix, you can hit Pikachu out of his up-B if you have your attack out.

You can physically hit pikachu out of QA. You can also physically get a hole-in-one on a 400 foot drive. You can also physically win the lotto, get hit by lightning, or write shakespeare by banging on a type-writer. Just don't expect to succeed very often. The attack is quick, and a good Pika-user won't be hittable out of it (when recovering).

Sorry Tenki, I don't know any Pikas (even anther). I'm a Lucario mainer. A lot of the Pika stuff just transferred well from melee.

 

[M15t3R E]

=]

Hey Sonics.
I noticed you guys want to know more about Pikachu.
I helped all I can but there's another way we can learn from each other.

How about a friendly war between the Sonics and Pikachus?
It'll be fun and a good learning experience.

 

[SonicX580]

Hey Sonics.
I noticed you guys want to know more about Pikachu.
I helped all I can but there's another way we can learn from each other.

How about a friendly war between the Sonics and Pikachus?
It'll be fun and a good learning experience.

That sounds interesting.

 

[ShadowLink84]

A...war...


*thinks of lineup*

1.Tenki
2.Boxob
3.DarkNes
4.Me (I want to paly you *******s!)
5.random person.


Pikachu line up
1. Anther (allt hey need we'll get wrecked)

 

[Greenstreet]

That sounds interesting.

Hey X850,

I think you need to re-evaluate your posts a bit mate. To be honest, they aren't contributing to the Matchup Discussion...
Please don't post unless you are going to contribute to the conversation at hand, but don't simply state your feelings on a random comment. Things won't get done otherwise...

Please make sure each of your posts help out the thread in which they are posts. Before you click the 'post' button, read over it again and ask yourself - "Is this really helping discussion or raising new ideas and topics?"

The Sonic Boards needs good posters rather than 1 liners at this time. Ok?

 

[SonicX580]

A...war...


*thinks of lineup*

1.Tenki
2.Boxob
3.DarkNes
4.Me (I want to paly you *******s!)
5.random person.


Pikachu line up
1. Anther (allt hey need we'll get wrecked)

Hey umm how are we going to figure out who is going to compete is it going to be the best people here compete? or are we going to discuss who competes? P.S. Don't include me I can't play wi-fi yet.
__________________________________________________________________________
And Green street I understand by the way it's X580 not "X850".

 

[Tenki]

roflmao

i like how this thread has been the past few topics:

"hay guys. okay, so it turns out we have no idea how to fight each other!"

"uhmhmm.. hmm.."

"DUEL!!!!!!!"

I can't play or anything until the weekend.

 

[Greenstreet]

I'll be discussing this with pretty much the best Brawl player in Aus tomorrow, well at least our state I guess. He mains MK and Pika, so I'll get back to you wonderful lads.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

Sonic ***** Pika in the air. However that quick attack will make it hard to gimp him, though he is lightweight so you'll be doing regular kills than gimps. You can outrange most of Pikachu's attacks not named Fsmash up close. A spammy Pika= a Spinshotted Fast falled Bair to the head. Forget about Spring usage most of the time, you'll just get harassed or eat a Thunder. Don't forget Pika is fast too, so you'll get punished easily if you do anything that lags (Eating a Usmash from Pika sucks) If anything, never take on a Pika on FD for obvious reasons. That's just something to help you with. I'm sure everyone before me said everything already.

This match just sucks out loud for Sonic. Your gonna have to stick close and space him no doubt. Don't ever let a Pika get too close (Love Dsmash when I use it, hate it when it's used against me ).

Take that Yellow ******* to BF or anything with platforms (Luigi's Mansion, I'm not sure. Try it out might find an advantage or your doom )