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[Clai]

It takes many games Vs Ganon to consistantly be able to airdodge out of his Dsmash.
And, you can't DI out of it (on reaction).

That's why I'm saying it's useless as a punishing move- players expecting to be punished are going to input DI instinctively to weather the oncoming blow, so even if they can't do it on reaction (which is probably false anyway, as 15 frames is more than enough for your opponent to do something on reaction), they can DI out of it with nothing more than instincts.

All in all, I'm not going to risk using a move that can be punished on hit when I have other, far better moves in Ftilt and Dtilt that bring the same benefits without me having to worry if the opponent is going to DI out of it. Opponents' ignorance of a move does not make the move better.

 

[Zeallyx]

That's why I'm saying it's useless as a punishing move- players expecting to be punished are going to input DI instinctively to weather the oncoming blow, so even if they can't do it on reaction (which is probably false anyway, as 15 frames is more than enough for your opponent to do something on reaction), they can DI out of it with nothing more than instincts.

All in all, I'm not going to risk using a move that can be punished on hit when I have other, far better moves in Ftilt and Dtilt that bring the same benefits without me having to worry if the opponent is going to DI out of it. Opponents' ignorance of a move does not make the move better.

tl;dr: Dsmash is as useful as up tilt for punishing

 

[Z1GMA]

That's why I'm saying it's useless as a punishing move- players expecting to be punished are going to input DI instinctively to weather the oncoming blow

That's true. My mistake.

However, I don't agree that you can DI it on reaction (if you for some reason didn't DI already).

Our Reaction Time is faster than 15 frames, but it takes longer than 15 frames for our fingers to take action.
(Of course this is irrelevant since, like you said, ppl will be DI'ing even before it happens.)

 

[Clai]

That's true. My mistake.

However, I don't agree that you can DI it on reaction (if you for some reason didn't DI already).

Our Reaction Time is faster than 15 frames, but it takes longer than 15 frames for our fingers to take action.
(Of course this is irrelevant since, like you said, ppl will be DI'ing even before it happens.)

I believe the general consensus is that people can see and react to stimuli (such as a character preparing an attack) in around 9-10 frames. This includes getting a shield up to block the incoming attack.

 

[Bahamut777]

I DI before every hit I take. Whenever I'm not doing anything or lagging, I hold the control stick up so I don't get gimped or get EKed.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

This pretty much goes without saying, but...

Learn every single character's ATs, playstyles, good stages, bad stages, strengths, and weaknesses. Spend at least a full week learning each character. Play some friendlies with them. Note to yourself such things as height of recovery, hitboxes, etc.

We are the worst character in the game, but if we know more about our opponent's character than they know about us, that can turn bad matchups into at least even ones.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Something interesting:

Angle shield down more. It's superior to holding shield in neutral stance in pretty much every way since it actually covers Ganon's entire frame better and doesn't really expose Ganon's top any more.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Huh, I've got to try that.

While I'm posting, I might as well mention that if you don't Tiltstick, don't Wizkick cancel into a spike unless you know you will recover.

Also, plank more.

 

[Bahamut777]

I might as well mention that if you don't Tiltstick, don't Wizkick cancel into a spike unless you know you will recover.

If you buffer a DAir using the soft tilt (like Z1g's new tech) you won't fastfall and will be able to recover.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Here's the absolute best tip in the world. When you Ganoncide on your last stock, throw a cherry bomb of chloroform on the ground and tell everyone that you won when they wake up.

 

[Dumbfire]

You can also tell the opponent that Ganon always wins and make him ragequit right before you enter the blast zone.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Hell yes, Doomfire that's the best and least expensive.

 

[Z1GMA]

I did something very weird today.
I got sent flying up the right corner by my opponent.
I Buffered a Dair, then I used aerial Wizkick to cancel momentum.

Thing is, I didn't travel down using the aerial Wizkick.
It just stopped the horizontinal momentum, *without* diving.

I believe it was a glitch.
Potential AT.

I've got the replay, so I'll upload it when I got time.

 

[-LzR-]

It's just the function of moving attacks. You still had momentum on you. If this cancel property didn't exist, then moves like Rob's bair would make him near unkillable.
It's common knowledge.
But I assume you wouldn't be this dumb so I'll just wait for the video and see what has Z1GMA found again...

 

[Z1GMA]

It's just the function of moving attacks. You still had momentum on you. If this cancel property didn't exist, then moves like Rob's bair would make him near unkillable.
It's common knowledge.

You don't think I'd notice a difference after performing a wizkick-brake like 500 times?

You are really insulting my intelligence here.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Just leave our boards already.

At times like this, I wish @HOME were here.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I've done something similar with DK's fsmash hitting me. When I downB'd, all the momentum stopped and I went straight down. But as soon as the wizkick ended, the momentum of knockback started again from where it left off when I downB'd.

 

[Z1GMA]

U got vid?

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

It was in training mode when I was testing if DownB helped survivability:<

Imma go test some now.

 

[Vermanubis]

0:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LFrC7D_lc

Doing some testing on this now. I have no idea how useful this would as an AT, but it LOOKS ****ING COOL. Maybe it has potential for other moves to be used?

 

[Bahamut777]

0:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LFrC7D_lc

Doing some testing on this now. I have no idea how useful this would as an AT, but it LOOKS ****ING COOL. Maybe it has potential for other moves to be used?

I know what happened. You DownBed, but the stage hasn't finished changing. When it finished, it cancelled the DownB lag and then you UpBed.

 

[A2ZOMG]

0:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LFrC7D_lc

Doing some testing on this now. I have no idea how useful this would as an AT, but it LOOKS ****ING COOL. Maybe it has potential for other moves to be used?

For a moment I thought that was Falcon Kick canceling. Which was recently implemented in BBrawl. XD

 

[Z1GMA]

0:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LFrC7D_lc

Doing some testing on this now. I have no idea how useful this would as an AT, but it LOOKS ****ING COOL. Maybe it has potential for other moves to be used?

Wow, a Fsmash after that down+b would screw just about any player.

 

[Dumbfire]

For a moment I thought that was Falcon Kick canceling. Which was recently implemented in BBrawl. XD

You mean were an Arial FK can cancel into a Grounded FK?
Thats pretty legit.

 

[Z1GMA]

Don't spend too much time on dittos.
It hurts your game.

 

[Exalted]

Big words for a man who just played dittos for more than an hour.

 

[Z1GMA]

Big words for a man who just played dittos for more than an hour.

Problem is... Ganon Dittos are so much fun.
Though, not as fun as Ganon Vs Snake/Falcon/Bowser/DK.

 

[Exalted]

Problem is... Ganon Dittos are so much fun.
Though, not as fun as Ganon Vs Snake/Falcon/Bowser/DK.

Manliness overload.

 

[P.i.r.u.]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before and I apoligize if it did but Hyrule Temple is a great stage for Ganondorf. Especially for his kicks.

 

[Exalted]

Well, it would dearly help us if you could mention why it is good for him.

 

[Z1GMA]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before and I apoligize if it did but Hyrule Temple is a great stage for Ganondorf. Especially for his kicks.

I dunno if you're trollin', but that stage isn't legal.

 

[Exalted]

I suspect a FFA Ganon.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

But guiz undor teh staeg u cn livv 4 liek evah

Tempel 4 nuetrol

Personally my favourite matchup is Ganon-Metaknight. Spot dodge or shield the end of nado and USmash the *******. I'm starting to get the hang of Shield DI so I can DI behind the MK. ****'s legit.

 

[P.i.r.u.]

Well it was just a tip when you are playing fun matches
---------------------------------------------------------

I got a more serious and helpful tip

Stutterstep with Ganondorf:
Flick the control stick to the left, quickly and immediately Flick the C stick to the right.

So it'll look like you never turned around.

if you do this Ganon's forwards smash will go a lot further and you'll be able to smash people at the range you normally couldn't hit.
[Works for both direction's]

Video for demonstration : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XibVKf89iIU

I know it's Mario but it works exactly the same for Ganondorf. Just pretend Mario is Ganondorf.

You can see how even a small Mario's Smash is able to beat Ike's Smash by the Forward Smash Exibition

 

[Breezy]

This is just a thing to remember as a player in general.

MIX IT UP

My favorite thing to do is for the first stock, just camp/slowly approach with just jumping around auto cancelling bairs dairs and uairs. Second stock, do nothing. Literally just stand there until I HAVE to react to something. People won't have any idea what you're doing.

Change around how you approach, how you camp, how you react after a hit, how you roll, how you get up from the ledge, how you stand up, what moves you use to space, what you follow up gerudo's with, everything.

If you're ever caught repeating yourself, a smart player will hurt your feelings.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Well it was just a tip when you are playing fun matches
---------------------------------------------------------

I got a more serious and helpful tip

Stutterstep with Ganondorf:
Flick the control stick to the left, quickly and immediately Flick the C stick to the right.

So it'll look like you never turned around.

if you do this Ganon's forwards smash will go a lot further and you'll be able to smash people at the range you normally couldn't hit.
[Works for both direction's]

Video for demonstration : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XibVKf89iIU

I know it's Mario but it works exactly the same for Ganondorf. Just pretend Mario is Ganondorf.

You can see how even a small Mario's Smash is able to beat Ike's Smash by the Forward Smash Exibition

Screw stutterstep. Salmon smash your foes into submission. Smash the control stick forward, then immediately backwards, then CStick forward. Optimal input will seem like you just teleported forward. And you probably did, I mean you're Ganondorf.

More seriously, learn to space with all 3: normal, stutterstep and salmon smashes.

 

[Z1GMA]

My new favourite Combo on Wario:

The "Hell's Angels Combo"

If we stomp him while he's on his bike, we can buffer a Fsmash for some serious damage.
It works if Wario doesn't tech the ground after the stomp,
which is pretty hard for him since he sort of freezes before he goes down.

23 + 25 = 48% Combo

And at 0%:
Bike Stomp -> Stomp -> Uair = Around 56% damage.

Also, at 0%:
Bike Stomp -> Tipman Bounce -> Stomp -> Uair = Around 61% damage.
(Not very practical, though)

 

[Breezy]

I love you Ziggy

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganon's footstool is really awesome off stage.
Especially if you combo into it.

Uair, Nair or WKC -> footstool

Ganon's footstool is underestimated imo.

Footstooling Wario after a Grabrelease is too fun.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm here because lord helmet send me.

He's such a meanie

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm here because lord helmet send me.

He's such a meanie

Well, since you're here, I assume you've found a way to garantuee WP
against all characters after a Gerudo?