Socialize. peach for top tier?

[Brookman]

m2k is like an old race horse. We just love him too much to take him out behind the barn.

 

[Strong Badam]

Armada isnt breaking the rules of the game, peach IS that good.

i'd hope a falcon main would understand that player skill is far more important than character choice at high level play. of course, character is a factor, but mango vs. armada wasn't really fox vs. peach, rather it was mango vs. armada
however, Armada did show us things we didn't think possible with Peach, or at least not to the capacity of his ability. his float camping is unmatched, and most players really didn't know how to deal with it. some of his success could be attributed to players not knowing how to deal with him, but ultimately it's obvious that Armada's ability to adapt shows that both he's able to adapt and that Peach is able to adapt.

 

[Brookman]

The beauty of this game, after all this time, lies in the fact that character choice has never boiled down to "play x or lose" the same way brawl has.


?

 

[Sinji]

M2k for Apex 2012 crown!

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

m2k is like an old race horse. We just love him too much to take him out behind the barn.

Are you kidding me? Have you seen his Shiek?

 

[Roneblaster]

You caught me sb, i wont argue back.

 

[Frame Perfect]

I was so damn proud of him that set. Showing he's still got it, in some capacity.

just think, if he beat mango(instead of playing marth)... then he faced taj(who's gonna win that ditto), then a rematch with armada... man i hope he wins another national.

The beauty of this game, after all this time, lies in the fact that character choice has never boiled down to "play x or lose" the same way brawl has.


?

hey, im not one to defend brawl

 

[Blistering Speed]

just think, if he beat mango(instead of playing marth)... then he faced taj(who's gonna win that ditto), then a rematch with armada... man i hope he wins another national.

Don't count on it. The most money's at what he's doing now, coasting on old skill in Melee and killing it in Brawl.

 

[NeutralDamage]

the fact that Amsah and Armada go even in PAL, and Amsah 3-1?'d him at Pound 4 are pretty good supporting facts.

Armada has won amsah everytime(last 2,5 years atleast) when they face in pal, so they haven't went even in it.

 

[Strong Badam]

look at the set counts at those tourneys. a 3-0 is different from a 3-2, bro.

 

[Tonb3rry]

look at the set counts at those tourneys. a 3-0 is different from a 3-2, bro.

Armada has pretty much beaten Amsah without even losing a single match in PAL the last years. In other words he has been dominating the European players for quite a while, even Amsah, who has been our second best player ever since he lost his title as the best player in Europe. And European finals sets are bo7 usually.

 

[Jonas]

Not gonna lie, Armada ***** Amsah on a regular basis.

 

[Strong Badam]

dang bro ok i will concede that point. sheik still beats peach marginally in NTSC tho

 

[Sinji]

Therefore Amsah will beat Armada in NTSC tourney while Armada will beat Amsah in PAL.

 

[Jonas]

You might as well say SilentSpectre will always beat Armada. I'm pretty sure Armada can deal with Amsah's Sheik even in NTSC.

 

[Dimitris]

5€ on Amsah beating Armada at BEAST2, if they meet. Are you in?

 

[Jonas]

Sure, I'd wager 5€ on Armada

 

[Dimitris]

Sweet.
Too bad there aren't any smash bookies. I'd get a 5/1 rate or something.

 

[eet]

100 dollars on armada

 

[mesa23]

Sweet.
Too bad there aren't any smash bookies. I'd get a 5/1 rate or something.

!!!!

someone needs to man up and become a smash bookie!

 

[Jonas]

He could have his own personal title on the board =D

 

[Dimitris]

Probably very very illegal.

 

[Max?]

The way smash community functions already is technically illegal.

 

[Strong Badam]

Therefore Amsah will beat Armada in NTSC tourney while Armada will beat Amsah in PAL.

this is silly, between high level players of similar skill it will vary from tourney to tourney. it's rarely a surefire win outside of Mango vs. most top level players.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik beats Peach in NTSC yes.

Down throw as a whole is very troubling for Peach. So is back air. And fair. And needles. And... that's most of what Peach has to worry about, honestly.

 

[erbanez]

If Puff can be top tier, then so can Peach. I think Sheik should be 3rd, then Peach, then Puff.

 

[Sinji]

The only solid option peach has over sheik is CC dtilt>uair combo or CC dtilt>weak reverse bair>nair.

Other then that, sheik has the advantage. Sheik jumping protects her from getting grabbed. As long as Sheik is in the air, she can't get grabbed by peach.

When peach gets dthrowed, what can she do? not much.

Lets look at peach's options when getting downthrowed:

1) She DI forward, she gets faired.

2) No DI or DI backwards she gets uaired.

Also, good point from KirbyKaze. Camping with Sheik's needles prevents any approach option for peach.

 

[Strong Badam]

peach's dtilt has so much startup though in comparison to other reliable crouch cancel options (dsmash frame 5, grab frame 7, nair frame 8)

 

[Sinji]

The four option are even because dsmash, nair cant follow up after. Not sure about the grab after CC cuz Sheiks falling fair after a short hop gives a hitstun to peach past 15%. Good point in stating the startup for dtilit is takes a while.

So I guess from 0-10% is the best percentage rate to CC> any of the four of those option stated in the first paragraph.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Brookman]

The way smash community functions already is technically illegal.

Ya, the government would definitely want their share of Armada's winnings. . . in fact, since he's not a U.S. Citizen, they may want to just deny him any winnings at all.

That is, if they knew ;]

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

I agree with KK. There's just so little Peach can do about all of Sheik's shenanigans. In my experience, Fair just wrecks her lower recoveries, and SH Nair OoS can counter her approaches quite well.

She's not that great of a character. Armada is just too good.

 

[Big_R]

dear BR,

I know it's not likely that you understand this, but I will do my best to expounds it to you:


Playing against a player like Armada IS extremely challenging. It is much greater than the basement-level theory you have developed. That's the nature of his amazingness. I can't even begin to over-state this. Yes, it is possible for a sheik player to beat Armada. It is also possible we will see this happen (AGAIN, FOR THE N^th time) . Ultimately, it comes down to the micro-macro alignment of planets and stars, and time, though.

mmm ok w/e ***

 

[KirbyKaze]

The only solid option peach has over sheik is CC dtilt>uair combo or CC dtilt>weak reverse bair>nair.

Other then that, sheik has the advantage. Sheik jumping protects her from getting grabbed. As long as Sheik is in the air, she can't get grabbed by peach.

Why is Sheik afraid of getting grabbed by Peach?

Jumping all the time is kind of dangerous vs Peach because her whole gameplan is to outdo Sheik's positioning either by getting under her somehow (and thereby stuffing her move) or by using matrix-dodge down tilt to start a monster combo.

You don't really crouch cancel with down tilt. You use its medium range and pullback to dodge something and then counterattack. If you try to CC into it like you would with down smash, it probably won't work just by virtue of its startup time.

peach's dtilt has so much startup though in comparison to other reliable crouch cancel options (dsmash frame 5, grab frame 7, nair frame 8)

Yeah. Though Peach's down tilt isn't really a crouch cancel move anyway.

I agree with KK. There's just so little Peach can do about all of Sheik's shenanigans. In my experience, Fair just wrecks her lower recoveries, and SH Nair OoS can counter her approaches quite well.

She's not that great of a character. Armada is just too good.

Nair OOS by Sheik is a great way to get dash attacked.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Maybe I haven't been playing too many good Peaches, then.

I just find that when Peach spaces an aerial so that you're out of shield-grabbing range, you can still nair OoS, which is faster than WDing OoS to grab. Meh.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think it's a good idea to counterattack on Peach when she's pressuring your shield. Unless she's throwing jabs and similar unsafe stuff around.

 

[baka4moé]

hmm ya kk already said it, all i was gonna say is that cc dtilit just doesnt work on sheik, unless the sheik just sucks at spacing.

 

[Rubyiris]

Peach is a fundamentally flawed character. Armada is just that much better than everybody else.

 

[JPOBS]

^ Thats what they said about mango/jiggs too. Only took about ~2.5 years for us to change the tier list regarding that matter.

I, for one, welcome our new princess overlord.

 

[Rubyiris]

Armada isnt breaking the rules of the game, peach IS that good.

Peach is high tier at best.

Go back to complaining about your character.

 

[Summonedfist]

if everyone could get out of peach's dsmash as proficiently as mango does, peach wouldn't be accummulating % as much and we'd be all good

otherwise it's either profitting 40% or position