*~*~*SoCal Low-Tier Tournament*~*~* RESULTS!!

[Evilnemesis]

Keep Link =]

 

[S.O.S.]

Good good. Keep giving me input. It helps.

As for Pikachu and Pichu, I see Pichu as a joke character.

As far as the "tier list" goes, it's just a list to me. If Link moved from top of low tier to the bottom of mid tier, it doesn't change his abitlities. It doesn't make him stronger or weaker. The tier list is pretty much in order of best to worst. We just have to decide where the cut-off point is regardless of the name of a tier. I just thought this would be the most appropriate cut-off point, but I want to do what most people would agree to. So don't stop giving me your opinions. It helps me make a decision and I want the best decision for everyone.

At Pandatration, about 2/3 of the characters I faced were Link. Which wasn't a problem for me, being a Zelda player, since it was easy to reflect their projectiles and force them to fight. But it seems unfair to everyone else who has their favorite low-tier character who had to fight so many Links. Do you think we will have the same problem with Luigi? I don't know. SoCal hasn't had enough low-tier tournaments to determine that yet. But I hear the same complaints from Luigi players that I hear from other people who play low-tier characters like "Marth is too good" "Space animals are too good" "Peach is too good" "Sheik is too good"

I dunno what to do. Some people say "don't ban anyone" and some people say "Link and Luigi are too good for low-tier." AHHHHHHH!!!! It's hard trying to make everyone happy. Is banning one but not the other a good idea since it gives both sides half of what they want? Or should I please one side and not the other? I don't know. Giving each side half of what they want seemed like a good idea. But I really want to continue the discussion. I still need to hear more opinions. Don't give up your opinions because I'm staying as open-minded as possible. Thanks again for everyone who joined the debate.

either go all bottom tier or dont ban anyone cuz if not its going to be unbalanced.

btw pichu isnt a joke character... ill prove it

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Not necessarily. HugS and DSF both used Luigi at the first Pandatration. DSF may have used Link as well, but I know he used Luigi against Ken in the finals, and I know HugS chose Luigi because Luigi was the highest tiered character allowed in the tournament. And they didn't suck with those characters either, HugS got 9th, and DSF got 2nd.

That's my point -- they aren't who Ultra Luigi descibed as "people [who] had no idea how to use him." Anyone who's picking Luigi just because he's the highest tiered character is a n00b, and it doesn't matter who is banned or not banned -- they're still be a n00b. The people for who the tournament is held aren't going to randomly pick Luigi because they think he is the best without knowing how to use him.

As to the conflict at hand, it basically depends on your definition of low tier. Individually, that differs -- I certainly don't think Luigi is the classic "low tier" character we think of when we use the term -- but if you're holding a tournament, I imagine that all that matters is the majority. The standard list labels Luigi and co. as low tier, so let the whole list play and what happens happens. I doubt in reality it will be such a big deal.

 

[Nashun]

Luigis are hard. Might as well replace the graphics for his feet with a sword. </3 infinity priority.

 

[araknophobik]

lmfao no way does luigi belong in this low tier tourny
im trying out all the low tier chars, and this lil ***** is broken
all his arials have high priority over all the other chars

p.s. ultra luigi and rofl were able to take out top tier ranked players such as mike y, wolf, and champ this past weekend. luigi is way too strong to put into a low tier tourny

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Luigi's got nothing on Young Link :D

Note: I have no idea how the matchup actually goes, I'm just saying it for fun.

 

[ThomaSexy]

This choice isn't easy.

 

[araknophobik]

i think everyone here would much rather play against a link...or anyone for that matter, over luigi. just take him out thomas, i found it pointless to take out link

 

[Charoo]

I picked up link as my main as this happen? BS!!!

 

[ThomaSexy]

I can't base this all off of theory of who THINKS what's going to happen. So here's the scenario I'm looking at:

We will either have BOTH Link and Luigi or NEITHER.


Right now, I'm leaning towards keeping them both. The only reason is because SoCal has had only 1 low-tier tournament. So there's not enough results to determine if they're too broken or not unless we keep them in and find out. BUT we can still make observations from the low-tier tournament at Pandatration as well as other places that have held low-tier tournaments.

So here's what I want you to do: If you went to Panda's low-tier tournament, tell me what you noticed about Link and Luigi. If you've read online about other low-tier tournaments, tell me what happened.

I can't decide based on theory. I need real results. Ultra, I know you've seen a lot of the videos so I hope you can help the most.


Right now, here's what I've observed:

About half or possbily 2/3 of the players I faced used Link.
DSF got 2nd place with Luigi, against Ken's G&W in a close set.
Azen uses and wins low-tier tournaments with Link.
Thunders in Japan wins real tournaments with Luigi. He even beat Michael.

 

[Dodger]

(Azen wins REAL tournies with Luigi, doesn't he?)

Lets see here:

Low Tier
7/15/2006
64-man bracket

1 Ken------------------------> (G&W)
2 DSF------------------------>(Luigi/Link?)
3 Gabe------------------------>(Yoshi)
4 Arash------------------------>(Bowser)
5 Knives------------------------>(Roy)
5 Champ------------------------>(Link)
7 Manacloud------------------------>(???)
7 WhatisFear------------------------>(???)
9 Wolf------------------------>(???)
9 Dodger------------------------>(Kirby :-D)
9 HugS------------------------>(Luigi)
9 ThomaSexy------------------------>(Zelda)
13 Caotic------------------------>(Bowser)
13 Squish------------------------>(???)
13 Mike Y.------------------------>(???)
13 Mark------------------------>(???)
17 Mr. Pbody
17 Chris Lee
17 David C
17 Jay
17 Evil Nemesis
17 Panda------------------------>(G&W)
17 Duck
17 Inks------------------------>(Pikachu)
25 JTB
25 Yojo
25 Azn Lep------------------------>(G&W, I think)
25 Azeem------------------------>(Y. Link)
25 Chaos
25 Evan
25 Ganku
25 Sleepy
33 Jerome
33 Yloh
33 Stuntcuum
33 Trevyn
33 Paul
33 Mike Haze
33 Haze


So actually, the top 6 were surprisingly varied. Of course, both Ultra Luigi and ROFL are absent from this list, one would assume they would have placed quite well. Although we could probably get a better picture if we knew more of characters each player used.

 

[ThomaSexy]

Hmmmm. That is VERY interesting. (and very helpful). I will have a final decision tomorrow. Tonight, let's hear everyone's closing statements. We should have a date tomorrow too.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
ACTUALLY, my decision is made up. We'll keep Link in. It'll bring in more players than if he's banned. Is it fair? With a variety like that placing well, I say it's still fair.

 

[Zenith]

Prepare for Luigi and Link spamming.

 

[$ick]

My vote is keep 'em both in.

 

[The Grinch]

Hmmmm. That is VERY interesting. (and very helpful). I will have a final decision tomorrow. Tonight, let's hear everyone's closing statements. We should have a date tomorrow too.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
ACTUALLY, my decision is made up. We'll keep Link in. It'll bring in more players than if he's banned. Is it fair? With a variety like that placing well, I say it's still fair.

I've been reading this entire debate for a while not, and said nothing, but I'd like to say my piece now. I'm sure it's nothing you haven't heard before, but hopefully it helps:

I hear a lot of tier arguments about whether or not they are "rock solid" or "just a list," and in my opinion, they are both. Here's what I mean: Taking a look at the tier list and the average players that use those higher tiered characters, anyone would assume the tier listing is correct. Is it? Not necessarily. Why? Because you can bet that you will find someone using a low tier character, example GAW, defeat someone using a more popular character, like Marth.

I promise I'm getting to a point here =]

Now, as simple as that may sound as an explanation, you really need to think about that for a moment.

.......

Done? Good.

Marth is a higher tier (much higher tier) character than GAW is. So why did GAW win? Because the GAW player is a better GAW than the Marth player is a Marth.

Still following me?

So obviously, as it always boils down when it comes to a game of skill, the more skilled of the two competitors, whether they're using the same "equipment" or not, will usually come out the victor.

So what am I getting at?

What I'm getting at, is that to me, the tier list only represents what characters have more known and easier to use strategies and advantages than the other characters.

Now don't attack me just yet, because remember, that's what it means to ME.

With all that in mind, I believe you should keep all "low" tier characters in the tourny. Yes I'm a Luigi main player. Yes you can say that I'm biased because of that. No, it is not true. If Luigi gets banned, I'll just use GAW. And that's the where it happens----for every person I could possibly beat using GAW, for every possible player I could beat, someone could start declaring GAW as too good of a character for low tier.

I think you get my point now ;] Last time I had smashers over here, I won most of my matches with GAW, Luigi and Bowser.

Thanks for reading, hope it helps.

 

[$ick]

Well my pikachu is all practiced up now, if any teams want to come down here or set up a time when myself and my teamate can go to wherever ur at pm me, would be really fun to get some low tier team practice in.

 

[Nashun]

I don't really have any extensive experience with anybody but Kirby, but I really think you should leave Link and Luigi in this tournament, Thomas. I doubt it will make a huge difference and, like you said, more people are likely to show up if you kept them in.

Something to consider is the variety of characters that will be played in the tournament: Would there be a wider variety of characters played if Luigi and Link were to be kept in? There's two extra characters. More characters = better chance for variety. However, Luigi and Link are the best Low Tier characters and that may lead to more people choosing those two characters, which would lead to less variety.

In any case, I'd rather have more competition (more people) than a wider variety of characters to play against. Since leaving Luigi and Link in the tournament would bring in more people, I think it would be much more favorable to leave them in.

=) Kirby doesn't do too horribly against Link, anyways.

And Luigi can be pink. Lawl who would win with a pink character anyways? =P

 

[NeighborhoodP]

And Luigi can be pink. Lawl who would win with a pink character anyways? =P

wtf pink Luigi is his best color. Luigi has a lot of great colors, actually, with neutral Green being his worst.

 

[Nashun]

wtf pink Luigi is his best color. Luigi has a lot of great colors, actually, with neutral Green being his worst.

I'm not too sure if you understood the irony or not

 

[NeighborhoodP]

I'm not too sure if you understood the irony or not

obv I did, my post was debating more of the "Luigi = good in pink?" rather than the "omg winning with a pink character?"

In other words, I was stripping down your post to that bare essential of Luigi's pink costume and disregarding everything else.

 

[Kanzaki]

obv I did, my post was debating more of the "Luigi = good in pink?" rather than the "omg winning with a pink character?"

In other words, I was stripping down your post to that bare essential of Luigi's pink costume and disregarding everything else.

Irony - He's making fun of a pink character. He uses Kirby.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Wow, no **** Kanzaki? I never would've figured that out!

obv I did, my post was debating more of the "Luigi = good in pink?" rather than the "omg winning with a pink character?"

In other words, I was stripping down your post to that bare essential of Luigi's pink costume and disregarding everything else.

 

[$ick]

Man NeighborhoodP, if you're the same in person as you are on the boards you must be a bundle of good times. You're always trying to start these debates for an excuse to sound all intelligent, have fun. Feel free to try and do the same to my post but it won't happen. I see no reason in arguing over a forum.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Man NeighborhoodP, if you're the same in person as you are on the boards you must be a bundle of good times. You're always trying to start these debates for an excuse to sound all intelligent, have fun. Feel free to try and do the same to my post but it won't happen. I see no reason in arguing over a forum.

It was actually an off the cuff comment that meant nothing... When people misinterpret things, said things snowball. In the end, none of it meant or means anything.

 

[araknophobik]

lol look at me im neighborhood P
its spelled neighborhood P, not neighbOORhood P
Obv you must of missed that
No sir, my sheik is better than yours, thats why i'll give you advice
"use dtilts more"
lmfao
can everyone give NP a big "WOW" if you think he's a little bit too obnoxious on the boards?
and no, he's not like this in person. just when he's behind a keyboard

 

[Arash]

i say nobody gets banned, and you should maybe even add mario so people start using him even though he's clearly not low tier

depending on when this happens, i'll try and come if i can get the day off of work, then you will all fear koopa

 

[NeighborhoodP]

lol look at me im neighborhood P
its spelled neighborhood P, not neighbOORhood P
Obv you must of missed that
No sir, my sheik is better than yours, thats why i'll give you advice
"use dtilts more"
lmfao
can everyone give NP a big "WOW" if you think he's a little bit too obnoxious on the boards?
and no, he's not like this in person. just when he's behind a keyboard

yeah araknafobix, i'm sure when your vids are put up on you tube you want your name misspelled. people always misspell my name and i don't give a **** unless it's actually going to be labeled online or something.

and it was quite obv you didn't know the falcon matchup, you don't have to make a thousand johns for it.

 

[ThomaSexy]

We already fear Koopa.

 

[Evilnemesis]

ILast time I had smashers over here, I won most of my matches with GAW, Luigi and Bowser.

Fighting Words. Your Bowser vs my wack Falco mm? =]

 

[EzynJAY]

yeah araknafobix, i'm sure when your vids are put up on you tube you want your name misspelled. people always misspell my name and i don't give a **** unless it's actually going to be labeled online or something.

and it was quite obv you didn't know the falcon matchup, you don't have to make a thousand johns for it.

ROFL @ araknafobix haha my soul... but yea u guys should mm over this haha fabiosies vs phood 4 lifers cuz fabian told me on aim he was fabian the barberian and he was ready for u p ^^ haha luigi ill mm your little falco ^_^ it likes my marthms XD

 

[$ick]

Man Joe. every time I see you posting you're throwing out mm's. How come you never mm me!? heh

 

[Zenith]

Man Joe. every time I see you posting you're throwing out mm's. How come you never mm me!? heh

That is the art of Jay..

Prolly the only thing he knows how to do. MM.

 

[ThomaSexy]

So any word yet on the date Luigi?

 

[NeighborhoodP]

That is the art of Jay..

Prolly the only thing he knows how to do. MM.

LMAO it's so true... well that and he can talk **** with the best of em

 

[Snap]

i want to go to this.

 

[$ick]

Still no date or should I rely on it being the 27th..?

 

[LBK! of CIC]

Using any glitch or stall tactics to make a match unfinishable ...


BUT, if you discover a new glitch or stall tactic that has not been discovered yet, the rules still apply. That includes camping on the gun in Corneria.

Is there a character that can't get to the gun on Corneria?

 

[Evilnemesis]

Ill know for sure by tomorrow night of the date

 

[EzynJAY]

Man Joe. every time I see you posting you're throwing out mm's. How come you never mm me!? heh

we can mm 5 bux then ^^ haha P speaks the truth ^_^

 

["D.C"]

we can mm 5 bux then ^^ haha P speaks the truth ^_^

WTF I WAnna Mm People Ezynjay i'll MM You P BOTH OFF YOU GUY'S five bucks ^_^