So, Why does Lucas Suck?

[~CPU~]

because he runs away from anything bigger than him.

 

[Machrineith]

If you will, allow me to give my experience with Lucas.

I used to main him for quite awhile. I do enjoy playing with Lucas, but I find it gets quite difficult when battling up against MKs, , G&Ws, Falcos, and Snakes left and right. I tend to save him for Warios, Olimars, Pikachus, and any other matches that aren't too terribly difficult for me.

The first tournament I entered was at a nearby gaming store, and I was the only one of two Lucas's there. The other guy made so much unnecessary movement saying "Oh it's part of the mindgames." I three stocked him.

I eventually lost to a good Falco on day 2, but I realized I'd need a new primary since Lucas really wasn't cutting it for me, and the MKs were EXTREMELY difficult to face up against (assuming the player didn't suck).

Then I attended Winter Game Fest '09. I was really nervous at it being my first real major tourney, so I naturally played horribly during the first few rounds. Afterwards, not really caring for my results, I started playing random. I played 4 matches against 2 people who used Lucas. And on random, I get none other than Lucas for 2 matches.

Both of them used B-sticking and it was completely useless because they NEVER hit me with it.

The fact of the matter is, they aren't necessarily playing Lucas incorrectly, they were playing the game incorrectly. Stupid moves, rolling into smash attacks, and such. I'm not saying I'm this amazing player that should've won the whole thing, but I think it's ridiculous if I can play my opponents with one hand and answer my phone during a match.


Before people start "representing" him in tourneys, they should probably take a closer look at their gameplay overall.

 

[smashbros.maniac]

I usually play Lucas pretty defensively, which usually works pretty well (Unless someone is using a projectile spam! LOL).
But I think why Lucas has such a bad reputation is because nobody realizes how powerful he can be.
He's really a very powerful character with his up-smash that can cancel out Links dair, and his down-smash which can send people flying even with low damage.

 

[Levitas]

If you will, allow me to give my experience with Lucas.

I used to main him for quite awhile. I do enjoy playing with Lucas, but I find it gets quite difficult when battling up against MKs, , G&Ws, Falcos, and Snakes left and right. I tend to save him for Warios, Olimars, Pikachus, and any other matches that aren't too terribly difficult for me.

The first tournament I entered was at a nearby gaming store, and I was the only one of two Lucas's there. The other guy made so much unnecessary movement saying "Oh it's part of the mindgames." I three stocked him.

I eventually lost to a good Falco on day 2, but I realized I'd need a new primary since Lucas really wasn't cutting it for me, and the MKs were EXTREMELY difficult to face up against (assuming the player didn't suck).

Then I attended Winter Game Fest '09. I was really nervous at it being my first real major tourney, so I naturally played horribly during the first few rounds. Afterwards, not really caring for my results, I started playing random. I played 4 matches against 2 people who used Lucas. And on random, I get none other than Lucas for 2 matches.

Both of them used B-sticking and it was completely useless because they NEVER hit me with it.

The fact of the matter is, they aren't necessarily playing Lucas incorrectly, they were playing the game incorrectly. Stupid moves, rolling into smash attacks, and such. I'm not saying I'm this amazing player that should've won the whole thing, but I think it's ridiculous if I can play my opponents with one hand and answer my phone during a match.


Before people start "representing" him in tourneys, they should probably take a closer look at their gameplay overall.

Yeah. Lucas players suck.

 

[Irsic]

lol. Lucas' upsmash is powerful, but that doesn't make it good.

Even Peach's toad can't break through usmash. It's pretty funny.

But being one of the most situational moves in the game, it's basically negated from theorycrafting.

 

[Dxt XXII]

You don't get punished as much if you use it on a stage with platforms. Just the fact that Lucas' U Smash is so powerfulmeans that nobody will get directly above you after the first time.

 

[Irsic]

Pretty much. I love when players consistently love to attack from above, so when I let them get adjusted to it, I make sure they eat a usmash at killing %s. Though most people don't have that habit.

 

[Levitas]

You don't get punished as much if you use it on a stage with platforms. Just the fact that Lucas' U Smash is so powerfulmeans that nobody will get directly above you after the first time.

If people fear the usmash so much that they avoid being above you to that degree, isn't it better to FH nair through the platform and get damage than to scare them away from being in a position that's disadvantageous for them?

 

[Dxt XXII]

I was thinking more at higher percentages for the knockback. Usually after being sent up people like to land on the platforms, so trying to avoid the USmash they are put in an unconfortable position when they land.

 

[Tyr_03]

If someone's on a platform you can Uair their shield so they fall into their tumble animation and do a quick Usmash. A lot of times people are caught offguard by falling off platforms like this and don't do anything about it for a moment. I've gotten it to work a few times.

Most of my Usmash hits come from when I know the person is going to mispace an aerial near me or if they've wasted their second jump while I'm juggling them and are spaced just right.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Playing a good lucas is a rarity. But i've played 1, and it's really difficult to get to him cause he spaces so good in my opinion. But his recovery, despite the fact that it's better than Ness's, is still pretty gimpable. And he can be chaingrabbed, so i don't really have that much of a problem VS him.

 

[Zephron]

I don't think he is that gimpable. I've played many incredible TL's, Hyruliain Royalty, and Near, and they can gimp and spike outrageously well. However, they have told me I am very hard to gimp. I think they each have only done it like 2 times total. A DDD is prolly better at gimping (idk I dont rly play them all too much)
but I still think Lucas, if using magnet pulling and PKT correctly, he can really make himself hard to gimp.

 

[Irsic]

Heh, when played right in the air against a DDD attemping to gimp, Lucas should be able to stop him. He wasn't doing the right thing against you then, Chileno because Lucas isn't as easy to gimp as you claim.

When people use horizontal stage recovery (Peach, Diddy Kong, ZSS) above the ledge, after a while I find that to be another opening to usmash.

 

[Dxt XXII]

^ Falco and Fox's side B get owned like that.

A good Lucas won't even really need to use PKT to recover most of the time. Lucas also has a great off-stage game to counter a lot of gimps.

 

[Zephron]

I don't know, sometimes I do it on purpose. I mean, with me using a wiimote for a long time, zap jumps and such were very hard. So I just got to using PKT very wisely. I think that helped me a lot. Lucas has great potential to stop gimping, but his recovery can really own people if you use it unexpectedly, like instead of going for the edge, going slightly above, or somewhere completely different, catches enemies offguard and can even put them on the edge, where Lucas can use his superb ledgeguarding.

 

[c3gill]

Lucas has INSANE recovery options, if played correctly. Zap Jump + Magnet Pull gives us great vertical and horizonal options, and it can really throw people off, especially if they havent seen them used together before. adding a tether or a PK2 in there every now and then can be a nice surprise as well.

I think that Lucas' biggest downfall is his grab releases..... and then some of the people who main him focus on his specials, which can get pretty predictable if you overuse them.

 

[stephon]

i like lucas, matter of fact i main him and i bet i could win a tourney with him too.
his only problem is he's to laggy and that snake idea was horrible....

 

[Sin'sMortalCoil]

Does Lucas really suck at all? I mean, when I first played the game, I was like "Whatever. just another Ness, except not even as cool". Now, Lucas is like my, I dunno, eighth favorite fighter? Ness is in the "Ignore" folder, lower than Jiggs to be honest. I find the Heal shield's damage useful, since people usually try to punch you in the face, just release, and problem solved. PKT Kills Smash Balls, and PKFreeze fires quickly and has good range. In fact, writing this, I think I just bumped him up a notch in my heirarchy.
The laughable factor helps too, because you don't expect much, so you'll probably not give it your all. The people I play with, at least.

 

[Levitas]

You guys will understand if you start playing competitively.

Welcome to smashboards.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Lucas was my main when he first came out, now King Dedede is my main instead lol.

 

[Sin'sMortalCoil]

You guys will understand if you start playing competitively.

Welcome to smashboards.

I hope by "Competitively" you mean online for bragging rights. I play, and I am competitive. I play how I want to play. I play with just about every item, at just about every stage, with every character allowed, how the makers wanted it to be played. I'm not sure what the competitive 'scene' is like, but I've heard it's like only Final Destination with no items and half of the characters aren't allowed. I play games for fun, not to satisfy rules made by the ten year olds of the "NO! That's not Fair! CHEATER!!!" generation.

 

[Maniclysane]

I hope by "Competitively" you mean online for bragging rights. I play, and I am competitive. I play how I want to play. I play with just about every item, at just about every stage, with every character allowed, how the makers wanted it to be played. I'm not sure what the competitive 'scene' is like, but I've heard it's like only Final Destination with no items and half of the characters aren't allowed. I play games for fun, not to satisfy rules made by the ten year olds of the "NO! That's not Fair! CHEATER!!!" generation.

You think we go to tournaments to not have fun? You're fuking ********. Playing without items, skill vs. skill, intense matches down to the last stock sounds WAY more fun then throwing pokeballs around. It's cool if you play that way, with items on temple, chaos everywhere. We don't go out of our way to tell you you're playing the game wrong.

 

[c3gill]

I hope by "Competitively" you mean online for bragging rights. I play, and I am competitive. I play how I want to play. I play with just about every item, at just about every stage, with every character allowed, how the makers wanted it to be played. I'm not sure what the competitive 'scene' is like, but I've heard it's like only Final Destination with no items and half of the characters aren't allowed. I play games for fun, not to satisfy rules made by the ten year olds of the "NO! That's not Fair! CHEATER!!!" generation.

the random selection of the basic brawl is probabally perfect for you. In the real competitive scene, you are right items are not allowed, but that is just to make the game less random (whoever gets the most smash balls wins!), and make SSBB a game of skill, not luck.

All characters are allowed. Most Stages are allowed. And I dont think that anyone who plays this game on a true competitive level is 10, but i might be wrong.

 

[Natch]

I hope by "Competitively" you mean online for bragging rights. I play, and I am competitive. I play how I want to play. I play with just about every item, at just about every stage, with every character allowed, how the makers wanted it to be played. I'm not sure what the competitive 'scene' is like, but I've heard it's like only Final Destination with no items and half of the characters aren't allowed. I play games for fun, not to satisfy rules made by the ten year olds of the "NO! That's not Fair! CHEATER!!!" generation.

Why would we ban half the characters? The competitive scene doesn't ban characters, trust me. More stages than FD are allowed as well. It's kind of cool how it all works.

Tournament matches are best 2 out of 3. For the first match, it's a random stage chosen among 3-5 neutral stages(Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Brawl Yoshi's Island, and sometimes Lylat.).

The loser of the first match gets to choose the stage, and he now has access to a list of "counterpick" stages. Stuff like Pokemon Stadium 1, Brinstar, Halberd, Castle Seige, Rainbow Cruise, Delphino Plaza. The tournament I'm going to today has 14 counterpick stages in total.

Then the winner picks his character. After he does, the loser then picks his character.

That's how tournament matches go. We play with Items Off, but in the interest of keeping it fair. Having a Bom-Omb spawn right on top of you and taking off your last stock is something we want to avoid. You may not have known this, but Items even favor the losing character(s). If you're behind, they're more likely to spawn next to you, and you're less likely to drop an item if you're hit.

There are also Doubles Matches, which are played by the same formula, but with teams of 2 people. We set Friendly Fire to on, but that's to prevent someone from going double Falco and lasering you to death. If they alternate the Lasers right, you can't escape it-period. However, with Friendly Fire on, you can do some cool strategies. You can fill up Game and Watch's Bucket, you can be Snake and stick an explosive on your partner. You just have to avoid hitting your teamate more than usual.


Guys, there was no need to be so harsh on him. We're trying to expand the community, not drive a wedge between it.

 

[Levitas]

I hope by "Competitively" you mean online for bragging rights. I play, and I am competitive. I play how I want to play. I play with just about every item, at just about every stage, with every character allowed, how the makers wanted it to be played. I'm not sure what the competitive 'scene' is like, but I've heard it's like only Final Destination with no items and half of the characters aren't allowed. I play games for fun, not to satisfy rules made by the ten year olds of the "NO! That's not Fair! CHEATER!!!" generation.

It's extremely obvious you're new here. Bear with me, it's been a while since I've seen anyone blatantly flame me for making such a reasonable comment. I have nothing against you, but I'm not gonna hold my tongue when you're obviously calling me out.

First: Online has taken a game with few competitive qualities, and made it less competitive. Latency of double what's normal for other online fighting games (for a cross country connection compared to brawl's minimum latency, nonetheless) means that the game has absolutely no reaction involved. You can't react to Ike's Dsmash with a shield, because even if you press the shield button the instant you see Ike's dsmash start (I mean 1/60th of a second here, something like 1/9th of the reaction time of someone with a very good reaction time), your shield won't come out in time.

Bragging rights mean very little for online, especially here. We talk about in person tournament play in general, though some of us do online.

You claiming to be competitive does not make you competitive. I can play MTG with a deck I bought for $5 with a friend who does the same and still care to win. This does not make me a competitive player at MTG. The difference here is that the competitive standards for MTG are set by the people who made the game, where the people who made brawl decided that they're gonna shun the competitive branch of players for some reason.

Now claiming that the way the creators of the game wanted brawl to be played is with every character on every stage with every item is just wrong. If that were the case, why is there a stage select screen? Why's there a menu that allows you to disable stages from the random select? Why's there another menu to change frequency of items? Why are you allowed to turn items off? Why are you allowed to turn certain items off? Every one of these menus consists of a good deal of work for the purpose of allowing us to play the game as we choose. So that's why claiming that your set of rules is more valid than ours is a naive statement to make.

Your idea of the competitive scene is completely off. We don't only play on a stage or two. We play on a variety of stages, only banning the ones that make the game focus more on gimmicks than skill. Brawl is a game that makes this restriction necessary. Since in a tournament, the goal is to win, and having a higher percent at the end of the game makes you lose if the time runs out, stages where it's easy to get away with not fighting more than a couple of skirmishes and running away for the rest of the time are banned. The point is to make the game more fun by banning stages that are silly, not to make the game less diverse.

Now as far as banning characters, the majority of people that matter don't want any characters banned, myself included. The official ruleset endorsed by the people that make most of the calls on this website are on that side as well. No characters are banned. Not even one.

It is true, however, that we don't play with items. It takes a lot of the skill out of the game to be up by two stocks and still have a significant chance of your opponent getting some broken final smash or something and killing you twice because that's how theirs works. iirc, items spawn more by the character that's down in stocks, too. So stuff like that is more likely to happen.

Now, as for the ten-year-old crap that you're spouting, you'll find that the people making the rulesets for competition are usually in college or a bit older. Anything done for balance is only done to keep this game from degenerating into a ledgecamping stallfest, which it's resembling more and more anyway. Make your own calls about what should be done to affect fairness, but at least make informed decisions about what you're expressing opinions on.

I play the game for fun, too. ^_^

@natch. The only reason I'm posting this is because he called me out when I made a fairly friendly greeting. I don't like it when I shake hands with people who are holding tacks.

 

[c3gill]

.......wow?


thats a pimpslap and then some.

 

[Panix]

Don't try and outwit a smash reasearcher, it's like playing halo with no nades. your bound to lose.

 

[Zeallyx]

Those arguments aside and still present, I think Lucas still has what it takes to win. You just have to work thrice as hard as MK, GaW, Falco..etc, mains to get there.

so how many times harder does falcon mains have to work?

inb4over9000timesharder

 

[Brinzy]

Don't try and outwit a smash reasearcher

His status as a smash researcher means nothing here; everything he said, regardless of who would have said it, was completely right.

 

[Chuee]

I hope by "Competitively" you mean online for bragging rights. I play, and I am competitive. I play how I want to play. I play with just about every item, at just about every stage, with every character allowed, how the makers wanted it to be played. I'm not sure what the competitive 'scene' is like, but I've heard it's like only Final Destination with no items and half of the characters aren't allowed. I play games for fun, not to satisfy rules made by the ten year olds of the "NO! That's not Fair! CHEATER!!!" generation.

*facepalm*
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
Fu**ing idiot. As gimpy once said one that 1up show thingy, some people think competitive is boring and stupid. Most of the stuff you said is wrong except no items which makes the game more about skill than getting an item.

 

[Er!ckLZ]

wow, you lock my thread about owning 3lv9s but not this obvious thread??



FIRST OF ALL, NO CHARACTER SUCK IN THE GAME. THEY ARE ALL GOOD IN THEIR OWN WAY. THEY ALSO HAVE FLAWS. NO CHARACTER CAN BE PERFECT T_T


AND NO.... LUCAS DOES NOT SUCK. IT'S THE PLAYER THAT SUCK...

once again, n00b..

 

[ToxiCrow]

wow, you lock my thread about owning 3lv9s but not this obvious thread??

this site is for competition. this is a discussion about why lucas isn't doing so well in the competetive scene and is relevent.
while it's cool that you beat 3 lvl 9's without taking damage, it didnt need it's own thread

FIRST OF ALL, NO CHARACTER SUCK IN THE GAME. THEY ARE ALL GOOD IN THEIR OWN WAY.

wrong. some character's do suck. they may hav some things that sound good, but ultimatly are out-prioritized by what the other character's in the cast hav to offer. Let's take Warlock Punch for example: it'll ko at like 50%. Yet, it never does-meaning it'll never hit someone at the peak of their character's performance.

AND NO.... LUCAS DOES NOT SUCK. IT'S THE PLAYER THAT SUCK...

now i love lucas and i'm proud to say i play him and i'm proud to be part of the lucas boards. But he does suck compared to the High/Top tiers.

once again, n00b..

this is what got you flamed when you first started posting here.
i can understand you being bitter at people disrespecting your old thread, but dont take it out on the other poster's.
The OP wasnt trying to offend anyone
i'm not trying to offend/disrespect you. anyone here that knows me knows that i dont disrespect anyone. i'm just trying to inform you about what goes on here and to let you know why your above post isn't neccesarry

and we do hav fun: just look at our old Omelet threads. Sometimes we hav a little too much fun in here

represent

 

[Zephron]

Er!ckLZ, please don't be too mad. I admit people were being a little cruel by saying your opinions don't matter. However, this is a competitive website. People really do take this game VERY seriously. That's just what this whole forum is about. That's why this game is so popular. You love to play the game for fun. That's great. I just hope you don't get mad, or really be suprised at the fact we will and love to type tons of stuff just because this game is so interesting to us.

I'm sorry we locked your thread. Lord they did that fast.

Well, not everyone agrees that all characters are equal. It's safe to say though that not every character's metagame has been looked into as much as others. Keep in mind thousands of people think that some characters are indeed better than others.

Don't insult the person who made this thread. It wasn't more stupid nor less well intended than yours. This was a well intentioned thread, that's become popular because it is an interesting topic. I'm sorry people don't want to post as much in your thread. I would love for everyone to post in my combo video thread so the vid gets more views, but life isn't always so convenient. Don't call that person a noob. That was harsh.

No need to insult people you don't know, and don't fully call someone a noob if you don't even declare yourself a competitive person in this game.

We want you to have fun here, but please be nice. True, not people won't always be nice to you, but that's life, and I hope you've learned that by now.

Not trying to be harsh, just stating what's on my mind. That is also the purpose of a forum. You seem to enjoy staying them quite well so I hope you don't get offended.


Thanks for reading.

 

[Firstaidguitar1]

I am proud to say that I am a Lucas player. Sure, it has taken a lot of work, but Lucas is actually more valuable than the average player thinks he is.

 

[lil cj]

Lucas only sucks against the Deadly 4 IMO
Anyone else....winnable
He can beat some top/high tiers
Dedede and Snake are easy for Lucas

 

[ToxiCrow]

i wouldnt say easy, but managable.
DDD especially. his size makes it easy to land every hit of nair

 

[Brinzy]

Thank god he's not a bad choice to fight DDD with. It earns him a small niche.

 

[PillowPants]

Lucas doesnt suck....IMO
And I dont think Ness is better...they r about even
Like Mario is with Luigi
Lucas has the potential to be great...he jus has no fans
Nair, dair, jab, ftilt, and PK fire are too good...and to top that off his smashes are extremely powerful
...Other than Marth, G&W, and grab release
I see nothing wrong with him

ok jus cause characters r similers dosent make them even, imo luigi is WAAAAAAAYY better then mario (nair, bair, utilt, dair, fair, jab, fjp, nado) and i think lucas > ness imo (nair, pk fire, dair.... well maybe not dair, pkt2, freeze, ftilt, fsmash,) his match ups r bad tho its kinda sad

 

[Chuee]

well maybe not dair

YES dair.
10dair

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

ok jus cause characters r similers dosent make them even, imo luigi is WAAAAAAAYY better then mario (nair, bair, utilt, dair, fair, jab, fjp, nado) and i think lucas > ness imo (nair, pk fire, dair.... well maybe not dair, pkt2, freeze, ftilt, fsmash,) his match ups r bad tho its kinda sad

Lucas Dair and Ftilt >>>>>>> Ness's Dair and Ftilt