Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 So now that we know MLG hosts ridiculous smash tournaments...

[Eddie G]

Ally says ban MK!

And Ally ***** him, so therefore by ADHD's logic he must listen to what Ally says!

Hohohohoho!

 

[ShadowLink84]

I don't think it's just for diddy....but it's funny how everyone has a problem with dddy having a stage he can cp be picked in game one yet no one seems to care that MK has CP in the MLG stage list game one so does Ness Wario Marth d3 Snake Link and other characters. There's no harm in CP a neutral. PLz make brinstar a starter.

That is MLG, which the SBR is not at all responsible.
It would be better for Delfino to instead be substituted by Frigate Orpheon.
Let alone, in regards to those characters, why not..you know...for the 5th time. STRIKE IT!

You bloody turd.

 

[Nysyarc]

All this talk of starting on a perfectly neutral stage is giving me a headache... there is no perfectly neutral stage for any match-up. One character in every match-up has at least one small advantage over another given character on every stage, even if that advantage is so small or obscure that it doesn't realistically affect the MU. Please just say "to find the most neutral stage" or "the most balanced stage". That's like trying to say that two different character MUs are perfectly even. Some ratios are 50-50 but that does not mean the MU is 100% even.

 

[ADHD]

And Ally ***** him, so therefore by ADHD's logic he must listen to what Ally says!

Hohohohoho!

I'd rather listen to Ally than people I have never heard of spewing out information on how the game should be played.

 

[Nefarious B]

I don't think it's just for diddy....but it's funny how everyone has a problem with dddy having a stage he can cp be picked in game one yet no one seems to care that MK has CP in the MLG stage list game one so does Ness Wario Marth d3 Snake Link and other characters. There's no harm in CP a neutral. PLz make brinstar a starter.

Here are some widely held beliefs, basically facts in the smash world:

• MK is the most flexible character.
• He beats every character
• He does well on every stage (except for very specific character/stage combinations).

Now, if we agree that the stage played on for Game 1 is supposed to not buff either character, then if we hold these points above to be true, MK should have an advantage Game 1. The fact that he doesn't right now due to a restrictive starter stage system is a reflection of obvious bias in that system.

 

[Chuee]

Ally says ban MK!

M2K says keep MK legal and Diddy beats MK.

 

[Eddie G]

I'd rather listen to Ally than people I have never heard of spewing out information on how the game should be played.

And if we strictly followed elitist, singular-minded idiots like you, the game would spiral toward a premaure end. Stop ignoring the bulk of the community just because they aren't on your level and try to evolve beyond your asinine and childish ideals. No community, which means no money to win, which means not being the "top" of anything because there wouldn't be a something anymore. Capice?

I know you're in high school but even I had more common sense than this at your age.

 

[ADHD]

M2K says keep MK legal and Diddy beats MK.

Oh well, I just noticed a trend that the people that are FOR a 9-starter stagelist happen to be mediocre or bad, idk.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

That is MLG, which the SBR is not at all responsible.
It would be better for Delfino to instead be substituted by Frigate Orpheon.
Let alone, in regards to those characters, why not..you know...for the 5th time. STRIKE IT!

You bloody turd.

Thank you.

Here are some widely held beliefs, basically facts in the smash world:

• MK is the most flexible character.
• He beats every character
• He does well on every stage (except for very specific character/stage combinations).

Now, if we agree that the stage played on for Game 1 is supposed to not buff either character, then if we hold these points above to be true, MK should have an advantage Game 1. The fact that he doesn't right now due to a restrictive starter stage system is a reflection of obvious bias in that system.

???? What are you talking about ? Why doesn't MK have an advantage?

 

[Nysyarc]

Ally says ban MK!

M2K says keep MK legal and Diddy beats MK.

I'd rather listen to Ally than people I have never heard of spewing out information on how the game should be played.

Oh, this is just too much fun.

 

[ADHD]

How many more MLGs are there? Two?

 

[Nefarious B]

???? What are you talking about ? Why doesn't MK have an advantage?

I thought it'd be obvious in the context of this thread that I'm referring to his matchups with the characters that have been the center of debate, Falco, Diddy, ICs...
They receive obvious buffs in their MK matchup as a direct result of the stage striking system, which is what Game 1 should strive to prevent.

 

[Chuee]

3
Raleigh
Dallas
Finals

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Oh, this is just too much fun.

What does that have to do with anything?

@ Nef B how does those characters gets buffs by fighting MK on those stages?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Is everyone really surprised that a High School student is spewing trash?
Maybe when he hits 21 his head will straighten out.

@almostlegendary: it is because ADHD has a cup thats half empty and quickly becoming more empty.

 

[Chuee]

Is everyone really surprised that a High School student is spewing trash?
Maybe when he hits 21 his head will straighten out.

Yes because all high school students are clearly idiots.

 

[Nefarious B]

@ Nef B how does those characters gets buffs by fighting MK on those stages?

Because he beats them anywhere from badly to horribly except on those 3 stages in which case the matchup moves (more towards) 50-50. That's a buff.

inb4falcojapes

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yes because all high school students are clearly idiots.

No such statement was said.
Touchie touchie.

 

[etecoon]

It is. In fact, it's even worse because delfino is not one of MK's best stages.

delfino

not one of MK's best stages

lolol

 

[AvaricePanda]

Is everyone really surprised that a High School student is spewing trash?
Maybe when he hits 21 his head will straighten out.

@almostlegendary: it is because ADHD has a cup thats half empty and quickly becoming more empty.

In this thread I learned that I'm dumb and spew trash and am a horrible immature person that won't know anything about anything until I turn 21.

I also learned that if I disagree with someone they can pull the high school card on me and it's perfectly fair because not only are stereotypes correct but young people are stupid.

THE MORE YOU KNOW

Let alone, in regards to those characters, why not..you know...for the 5th time. STRIKE IT!

so why don't you just strike FD lol.

In a 5 or 7 stage starter you only really HAVE to strike FD against Diddy and then the other stages are match-up/player preference. In a 9 stage starter most characters would have to at least strike 3 of the 4 most probably against Dedede: Delfino, PS1, Castle Siege, FD.

Someone please say why a 9 stage starter is explicitly better than a 7 stage starter, because the only difference seems to be making Falco, Diddy, and ICs slightly worse. No one has mentioned any specific characters that gain a benefit from a 9 stage starter that warrants worsening the following three.

 

[Flayl]

That isn't what the argument is about, and this is part of the frustration.
It isn't that Diddy has a major advantage.
It isn't that Diddy is super duper spectacular on the stage.
I will put this in bold since apparently people can't seem to understand.


A neutral stage, is a stage that neither character will gain a benefit. So a neutral stage in MK vs Diddy would not be FD, because this stage isn't very good for MK(its his worst stage.), but is good for Diddy.

Understand better?
The attempt is to make sure that BOTH player's end up on a stage that neither of their character's are benefiting.

You keep repeating the same points over and over without actually answering the question. What advantage does Diddy get from playing on BF?

Why is one of your main points that Diddy can play on this stage game 1?

 

[ADHD]

Is everyone really surprised that a High School student is spewing trash?
Maybe when he hits 21 his head will straighten out.

@almostlegendary: it is because ADHD has a cup thats half empty and quickly becoming more empty.

Actually, it doesn't really matter. Votes are what count in the backroom, not the little sonic and link mains they acquire.

Anyway, this stagelist will die out after MLG is over in every place except the midwest. I'LL WIN LATER ON.

 

[Overswarm]

Flayl, Assuming FD has been banned and Smashville has been played, what is the stage a Diddy main will counterpick to?

 

[Flayl]

Flayl, Assuming FD has been banned and Smashville has been played, what is the stage a Diddy main will counterpick to?

Well if the diddys that have posted in this thread are anything to go by it's pokemon stadium

edit: It's not as cut and dry there are obviously other CPs for some matchups

 

[Overswarm]

Well if the diddys that have poste in this thread are anything to go by it's pokemon stadium

Cool.

What next?

And what after that?

 

[Count Typo]

I'm disappointed Wyatt. You never seemed like such an arrogant **** before you got a taste of the top player spotlight. I guess some exposure can certainly change a guy...

elitist, singular-minded idiots like you

It's clearly the spotlight.

I know you're in high school but even I had more common sense than this at your age.

Not the best way to argue.

 

[Flayl]

Cool.

What next?

And what after that?

After PS1 it doesn't matter unless you're playing a best of 7?

 

[Overswarm]

After PS1 it doesn't matter unless you're playing a best of 7?

Yes it does. Keeeeeeep goin'.

 

[AvaricePanda]

BF or picto (if it's legal), Yoshi's, Lylat (player preference), CS, Halberd(match-up dependent)

By the same token, assuming it's a 9 stage starter, where will Luigi go if Brinstar's banned and Halberd was already played? (first example I can think of). Still, I don't see how a 9 stage eliminates this problem really.

Someone please say why a 9 stage starter is explicitly better than a 7 stage starter, because the only difference seems to be making Falco, Diddy, and ICs slightly worse. No one has mentioned any specific characters that gain a benefit from a 9 stage starter that warrants worsening the following three.

 

[Overswarm]

Cool.

So far we've got...
FD
BF
Picto
Yoshi's
Lylat
CS
Halberd

Now I think it's fairly obvious after listening to ADHD complain that he wouldn't agree with, oh, Picto through Halberd. But that's the bottom of the barrel for Diddy Kong, right?

Thing is, Diddy enjoys flat, unobtrusive stages with a lot of room to mauever. He wants to be able to control space.

Battlefield is his third or fourth choice as "best stage".


Saying "battlefield's fiiiiine" is ignoring that fact. That's like giving Meta Knight the ability to start on Norfair because it's not Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar. It doesn't make it a good starting stage.

 

[ADHD]

And if we strictly followed elitist, singular-minded idiots like you, the game would spiral toward a premaure end. Stop ignoring the bulk of the community just because they aren't on your level and try to evolve beyond your asinine and childish ideals. No community, which means no money to win, which means not being the "top" of anything because there wouldn't be a something anymore. Capice?

I know you're in high school but even I had more common sense than this at your age.

Apparantly that sense went away over the years.

The community, regardless of its bulk or not if supported by people for random factors such as janky stages and starting out on legitimate counterpicks (other than neutrals, because neutrals are at least mostly balanced) then we will die shortly soon. We want skill to shine through, not who got the luckiest during the set or who mains the best suited character to the most of situations. Neutrals are the last hope to preventing this.

Get over this spotlight "changing me," we didn't have stupid issues like this back then.

 

[T-block]

The more stages the better. There's no reason to say "seven stages is good enough" when you can go to nine. If we could strike from all legal stages, it would lead to the fairest stage for a certain matchup (within a given ruleset) assuming both players strike properly. That can't happen because of time constraints, so we add as many stages as possible. Unfortunately, which stages we add is where things start to get subjective. Frigate is a decent candidate, but the general consensus is that it's more polarizing than Delfino I guess. The lack of ledge does hurt a lot of characters if their opponent is not similarly affected.

I also think starter stages should be limited in the randomness because of the importance of the first match, but that's not on everyone's criteria list apparently.

I tried to answer your question already, Avarice. This is given that a wider selection of starter stages will lead to a fairer final result, which you don't seem to agree with.

 

[Flayl]

OS: You forgot PS1.

And since you compared BF to Norfair I'm out.

 

[Overswarm]

OS: You forgot PS1.

And since you compared BF to Norfair I'm out.

...I didn't. Where did I do that?

The point of stage striking is to get a stage that is not a good stage for you or your opponent. It's supposed to be as even as possible.

If Diddy has Battlefield as his 3rd or 4th best stage, and MK has Norfair as his 3rd or 4th best stage, allowing Diddy the guarantee of starting on Battlefield is just as bad as giving MK the ability to start on Norfair. Regardless of how extreme the victories would be in relation to one another, the principle is the same; you don't say "this stage is good for Diddy, but it isn't an auto-win so what's the big deal".

If you don't say "well, meh. I guess this is okay." when you get your starter stage, something has gone wrong.

 

[ShadowLink84]

In this thread I learned that I'm dumb and spew trash and am a horrible immature person that won't know anything about anything until I turn 21.

I also learned that if I disagree with someone they can pull the high school card on me and it's perfectly fair because not only are stereotypes correct but young people are stupid.

THE MORE YOU KNOW

I also learned that people will ALWAYS be offended because they will always makes the presumptions that is most offensive to them.

~_^

It's easy to look for a way to be offended, rather than take things as it is.

Thats ignoring the fact I replied to Chuee's baw.

so why don't you just strike FD lol.

then its just SV/BF

In a 5 or 7 stage starter you only really HAVE to strike FD against Diddy and then the other stages are match-up/player preference. In a 9 stage starter most characters would have to at least strike 3 of the 4 most probably against Dedede: Delfino, PS1, Castle Siege, FD.

So?
What is the problem with doing that?
There are more characters than just Diddy.
So why make a system that benefits Diddy and lets him get a good stage?

Again, you're bringing up other examples that you yourself have shown can be handled.
As opposed to Diddy who ends up ona stage he gains a benefit regardless fo what occurs.
Hell, he only loses FD but keeps SV or BF.
Same for Falco and IC's.
I wouldn't complain if I mained those characters.
Free CP for me.
=D

Someone please say why a 9 stage starter is explicitly better than a 7 stage starter, because the only difference seems to be making Falco, Diddy, and ICs slightly worse. No one has mentioned any specific characters that gain a benefit from a 9 stage starter that warrants worsening the following three.

So why should we make those 3 characters better?
Seriously, the only reason it seems you are opposed, is that it makes those 3 characters wors, as opposed to a situation that causes inflates them.

"I dont like it because this system hurts these 3 characters, who were previously gaining a benefit".

Apparantly that sense went away over the years.

Yes, because it is ******** and self serving.
By your logic, we shouldn't have commentators in football, even if those commentators were formerly professionals.

The suck now so their opinion doesn't matter ~_^.

The community, regardless of its bulk or not if supported by people for random factors such as janky stages and starting out on legitimate counterpicks (other than neutrals, because neutrals are at least mostly balanced) then we will die shortly soon. We want skill to shine through, not who got the luckiest during the set or who mains the best suited character to the most of situations. Neutrals are the last hope to preventing this.

"I want stages that bump my matchup to 50-50 both on starter and my CP.
I do not want stages that bump my opponents matchup."

Fox
Final Destination only.
No items.

Get over this spotlight "changing me," we didn't have stupid issues like this back then.

You're right, cause everyone sucked back then and didn't know any better.
Just like when they thought Snake was the best!

It is completely hypocritical to say it is okay for Diddy to get his CP as a starter, but say it is wrong for MK to get his CP as a starter.

 

[Chuee]

He never said BF was Diddy's 3rd best stage.
He said it was his best if FD was banned and he'd already played on SV, PS1, & Picto.
Thats, like 5th best.

 

[Eddie G]

Apparantly that sense went away over the years.

The community, regardless of its bulk or not if supported by people for random factors such as janky stages and starting out on legitimate counterpicks (other than neutrals, because neutrals are at least mostly balanced) then we will die shortly soon. We want skill to shine through, not who got the luckiest during the set or who mains the best suited character to the most of situations. Neutrals are the last hope to preventing this.

Get over this spotlight "changing me," we didn't have stupid issues like this back then.

Whatever, I didn't expect you to admit to it anyway. You did post with a lot more humility before well...this self serving, arrogant, "you suck, you're bad, you're wrong because you suck, no one matters but the top of the top and meeeee" nonsense you frequently spew in the middle of an argument. Seriously man? Seriously?

Who can bring themselves to respect that? Stop being a ****, it's not hard (lol innuendo).

 

[ShadowLink84]

He never said BF was Diddy's 3rd best stage.
He said it was his best if FD was banned and he'd already played on SV, PS1, & Picto.
Thats, like 5th best.

I do think you're missing the point of it.
You should not have a CP as a starter.
You start off ona stage that is neutral for both characters. Or as close to neutral as one can get.

The stage shouldn't boost a matchup to 5-5 for the losing character outside of a CP.
It defeats the purpose of stage striking.
ADHD might as well suggest pre-determined stages.
Which is basically what you have with a 5 stage starter.

 

[AvaricePanda]

@SL, if it makes those three characters worse and does nothing else, what's the point? You never said why 9 is actually better than 7 other than it makes those characters worse and they shouldn't be allowed to start on stages remotely good for them game 1.

OS, I see what you're saying, I just disagree with you that you should ignore the degree of how bad X stage is for a character on their neutral.

If Diddy has Battlefield as his 3rd or 4th best stage, and MK has Norfair as his 3rd or 4th best stage, allowing Diddy the guarantee of starting on Battlefield is just as bad as giving MK the ability to start on Norfair. Regardless of how extreme the victories would be in relation to one another, the principle is the same; you don't say "this stage is good for Diddy, but it isn't an auto-win so what's the big deal".

That's where I disagree, because yes you're starting on Diddy's 3rd or 4th best stage, but it's also a good stage for many characters, is for many characters a 3rd or 4th best stage in many counterpicks, and no one is completely hindered by the stage. As compared to Norfair, not only is MKs advantage on the stage many degrees larger than Diddy's advantage on BF, but it's less doable for a lot more characters, especially against ones like MK.

I don't agree the logic of BF being the same amount of bad as a near auto-win (Norfair) because its their respect character's nth best stage. Because of this you probably can't convince me or those that a 9 or 11 stage starter is better than a 7, because I as well as many other people disagree with that core principle.

 

[T-block]

Just to be clear, Avarice, are you arguing over the number of starters or the selection of starters?

What is your definition of a starter stage then?