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So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

SSBBDaisy

SSBBDaisy

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CS is great for ICs cause of the walk off. Sopo can kill some people there early with dthrow chains during the 2nd part and the transitions.
 
dettadeus

dettadeus

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Gadiel_VaStar said:
Swordguard Dash Grabbed Holy's Fair on Shield on the 2nd match of BF last stock! Maybe that testing thing does work and goes in IC's favor in that situation? I didn't check the spacing of it.
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Holy realized like halfway through the fair that it was hitting a shield and started to retreat, but it was still badly spaced by the end.
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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Hmm? What did ESAM write? lol, but regardless, Swordguard, that was an amazing set vs Holy! Very entertaining, and I learned a lot and even saw what you could have done better, and how the matchup is played even though I'm nowhere near your level of control w/ ICs.
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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Delux doesn't think ICs are too viable. I mean they are at least 10th best or higher. And in my view, any mid tier and above(bearing a few) are all viable; it's just the chances of it happening are a lot lower the further you go down the list, but not impossible.

Also, how do you ICs have such great character control like 9B or Vinnie level of control? Is it just practice or what? It seems more than just practice and literally analyzing every key mistake one is making and fixing it.

And also it seems that the amount of character control directly impacts how well ICs do for example: CGs. The more consistent you are with them and the less drops you have, the more likely you'll place well or even win the tournament. I think that's one thing that directly distinguishes 9B/Vinnie play from ESAM/Sword level of control. Even if ESAM is smarter than 9B/Vinnie, it seems like his control is not quite up there which doesn't allow him to do as well as he can w/ ICs, but idk correct me if I'm mistaken please..
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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[FBC] ESAM said:
I'm more consistent with my CGs than like everybody but 9b.
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I can agree with that. I think Vinnie's desync game is slightly more advanced though, so I guess it balances out & makes you both similars skill levels with the character as proven by Apex results.

I think if you upped your desync game & control with the character, you could be even better than 9B. I think ICs are hard when it comes to tech skill especially some of the harder desyns, but once one learns them then their gameplay will go up dramatically. But your a Pika main, & if ICs are your 2nd than I guess it won't really matter.

:phone:
 
[FBC] ESAM

[FBC] ESAM

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I'm definitely only gonna play ICs in like 1-2 MUs from now on (Olimar for sure and maybe the ditto since it's fun).

Me/Vinnie just have clashing styles. I think ICs are much better synced while he likes the opportunities that desyncing has, even though it is riskier.
 
DeLux

DeLux

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As far as players go, I think I pick up more "new" stuff from ESAM since that whole opposing styles things go. Like his set with Gnes at Apex was mindblowing. But if you want eye opening yall need to watch some old school Hylian and Swordgard. They were ahead of their time imo lol

:phone:
 
swordgard

swordgard

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[FBC] ESAM said:
I'm definitely only gonna play ICs in like 1-2 MUs from now on (Olimar for sure and maybe the ditto since it's fun).

Me/Vinnie just have clashing styles. I think ICs are much better synced while he likes the opportunities that desyncing has, even though it is riskier.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's the thing with ice climbers, you can either play the 9b way (walk and punish) or the more desynched way(kakera used to do this a while ago where he'd pull off crazy desynchs all match).

I liked the desynched method mostly the issue is if you mess up, it's over.
 
swordgard

swordgard

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SSBBDaisy said:
I don't know how u all do that dash dance desync into ice shot. Its hard af
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You probably don't dash for long enough the first time (since the key here is for nana to get intoa run animation while popo is in dash animation, nana keeps dashing until she hits run while popo's dash restarts everytime you change directions).
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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swordgard said:
Yeah that's the thing with ice climbers, you can either play the 9b way (walk and punish) or the more desynched way(kakera used to do this a while ago where he'd pull off crazy desynchs all match).

I liked the desynched method mostly the issue is if you mess up, it's over.
Click to expand...
Im pretty sure 9B is a hybrid atm, he just uses desyncs to pressure & for getting grabs. I thought hybrid was the best way anyway.

:phone:
 
DeLux

DeLux

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The losing streak continues

He went MK though. Played relatively poorly for my standards. Didn't convert on a lot of guaranteed situations with poor fundamentals. Got baited by the Dair / FF Air dodge > SL sequence a billion times. Kept auto piloting landing nair. Really tired and discouraged. Not sure if I would have won though even if I converted on the fundamental play because I was reacting so slowly to things.
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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DeLux said:
The losing streak continues

He went MK though. Played relatively poorly for my standards. Didn't convert on a lot of guaranteed situations with poor fundamentals. Got baited by the Dair / FF Air dodge > SL sequence a billion times. Kept auto piloting landing nair. Really tired and discouraged. Not sure if I would have won though even if I converted on the fundamental play because I was reacting so slowly to things.
Click to expand...
Delux, you told me to use my brain when I played, and I'm starting too. Do the same bro! You can do it, you're more than capable. I don't think that the matchups are as bad as you say them, but it's mostly a player thing. Get better & beat him next time. Have more confidence in yourself!
 
DeLux

DeLux

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Thanks for the encouragement, but when you go like 0 - 20+ against someone in legit finals sets, it gets harder and harder to actually trick myself into believing I'll win next time.

I mean, I still believe it, but just barely. I imagine if I make it to the 0-30 mark, I'll just pack it in.

The positive things I can take from rewatching the sets are:
1. I had a strong chance of coming out on top if I converted on fundmentals. I got mashed out of twice times when I had a guaranteed Nair > Ice Shot reset set up which is borderline embarassingly bad. I also got mashed out another two times at low percents on guaranteed easy dthrow > Dthrow conversions because I kept auto piloting the bthrow instead of doing the fthrow afterwards.
2. Some adaptations to some of my baiting sequences. My usual anti-nado options aren't effective because of his baiting setup with nado spacing, so I can lab there.
3. Baiting out some of his baiting sequences. There are some things I noticed to punish next time we play, but I won't go too specific on his end.
4. I can rework my anti-shuttle loop game for certain. Clashed with so many glide attacks meaning I was reacting like 10 frames slower than ideal.

The discouraging things:
4. I tripped in crucial situations. A LOT. One time out of solo dthrow easy convert on stock 1 game 1 which set the tone more or less. Had a quasi guaranteed Nair > Grab setup on landing in one set and tripped after the nair and then died for it.
5. The return of LD28 where I blizzard off stage / randomly run off stage and die. Did that twice.
6. The MUs are as bad as I say they are :p
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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Yeah IC boards are inactive. It looks like your on your own besides Delux and the other few ICs helping out. But there is so much knowledge on this board if you just look for it. All you need is already here.
 
T

TheSaintKai

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Got second at my going away tourney. Lost to a guy in my town. MK too good.
I think I'm just packing up Brawl, everyone. P:M is more fun to me, honestly. It really is. And I leave for the Air Force in a week anyways. Maybe once I get stationed somewhere I'll figure some **** out with ICs but for now, see you guys. It was fun, and thanks for all the help.

Shoutout to DeLux for being my idol.
 
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