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So does Samus suck now, or am I missing somthing

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
well if it was my falco i would never go there ever, and the match would just end in 6 minutes XD
 

Hive

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
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Location
Mountain View, ca
lol I would have never guessed that this would be the most responded to thread on samus char. spec. ^^

@Plairnkk... well can't u at least go off the ledge A LITTLE with Falco just to at least raise suspense? lol
Going into Brawl I thought falco was for sure gonna be samus' worst matchups so its no surprise its a hard win to pull off. Isn't it weird though that in melee falcon was supposedly her worst match and now she has advantage?
 

Coldfront

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
128
Location
A-Town
Falcon was her worst matchup in Melee?! I had a much harder time against Fox and Falco players than I ever did a Falcon player in Melee. Maybe I just wasn't playing any good Falcons.
 

Hive

Smash Lord
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Sep 12, 2006
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1,605
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Mountain View, ca
I thought that's what the tiers said... they could be wrong, but I always thought the melee tiers were pretty correct....
 

Heroic

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
56
yeah

yeah in melee he was really good against her, which was indeed reflected in the tiers.
lol?

Falcon is far from her worst match-up, falco and fox are even worse. I once beat the four best falcons in the world with samus. I admit it is not a really good match-up for samus, but it is not that bad.

About samus in brawl. Well, I was an hardcore samus player in melee, and at first I was like "Sakurai mutilated her". I was preparing to board to japan to tell mister sakurai my way of thinking, until I discovered all the uses the zair had.

The main problem with samus I think (and it is valid against a lot of characters, especially mid and heavyweight) is that because the hits cause let hit stun then they have lag, and the fact that samus has a lot of hits that don't send the opponent far, you enemy could just hit you out of the histun for more damage then you did to him. A good example is marth and donkey kong.

Fortunately, there is a way of playing to avoid that. I guess sakurai made the game so you could not just spam on everyone with samus's every attack, so instead you have to choose carefully at what angle you will attack your target, and what hit you are gonna do in each situation.

For an example, I was attacking a mid-air marth with the zair, and always got automatic tipped in the face by his fair. So I tried to attack him with the up-air instead, wich works pretty well. Depending on both players's momentum, you can even hit him twice in the air.

About the KO move issue: Samus has at least 3 solid KO moves on the ground, and 2 aerials that can kill. That s more then enough, since anyway you are gonna chase your opponents off stage to kill them. Her downtilt is especially good for KO since its a star KO.

Think Samus sucks? Try me noob. And Hugs, don't lose faith, you just need to L2P samus. Just think of her as a whole different thing that she was in melee. You are awesome at melee BTW, I have always wanted to play against you.
 

Paradigm

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
700
Location
St. Brutus's Secure Center for Incurably Criminal
lol?

Falcon is far from her worst match-up, falco and fox are even worse. I once beat the four best falcons in the world with samus. I admit it is not a really good match-up for samus, but it is not that bad.
I've seen some far-less-than-best-in-the-world Falcons beat Wattyman pretty solidly. If you were good enough to do that I'd most likely have heard of you. Mind listing these falcons?


About the KO move issue: Samus has at least 3 solid KO moves on the ground, and 2 aerials that can kill.
On the ground I guess you're refering too dtilt, fsmash and dsmash. In the air there's the bair, and...? Dair? Unless you count off-stage gimping I can only think of one KOing aerial. If you do count off-stage gimping it'd be pretty much all of her aerials.

That s more then enough, since anyway you are gonna chase your opponents off stage to kill them. Her downtilt is especially good for KO since its a star KO.
Her problem is not the lack of KO moves so much as landing one of them. Fsmash's hitbox is horrible and the dsmash can be a bit slow. Not to many combos go cleanly into the bair, and approaching with the bair alone is a bit predictable/punishable. Dtilt's pretty good, though, so long as you land it. The cooldown leaves it pretty punishable.

Think Samus sucks? Try me noob.
Thats an interesting throw down to offer up on the part of the boards where the Samus mains usually hang out. Not sure what beatting you with my best character - Samus - would prove about her being sucky. I could try another charcter, though. ROB? Marth? If you don't live to far terribly from Ohio Feel free to hit me up on AIM anytime after this week (exam week). I'm, uhh, taking a study break right now >.>

And Hugs, don't lose faith, you just need to L2P samus. Just think of her as a whole different thing that she was in melee. You are awesome at melee BTW, I have always wanted to play against you.
I got some friendlies with him at Pound3. He lived up to his reputation :D
 

Hive

Smash Lord
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lol you know what I just realized? I swear like there at least must be 50 people who swear to being the best samus player or who have figured out her "hidden potential." :) No, no... I'm really not trying to dis on anyone. swear. I was just thinking... wouldn't it'd be the coolest thing ever if somehow we could have a tournament between all the best players for kicks...? yea, probably impossible :( but a girl can dream can't she?
 

Gum

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
470
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Everywhere you wanna be
lol I know what you mean, but think about it like this. There are only a few people who say positive things about her. Everyone else says she sucks, and the rest jump on the bandwagon, even if they don't know first-hand.
 

Heroic

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
56
The reason that you never ehad of me is probably because I live in Canada, and never went to the united states to a competition. Though, I have attended pretty much every tournament in the Quebec/ Ontario region for the past years.

Maybe I should not say the I beat the four best falcons, but four of the best falcons in the world. These players were Pkmvodka, chesterr, Bam and Vwins. They went to quite a few tournament in the united states, and are the four best players in Canada.

Do you know Kage? he was at pound3, he has a pretty good ganon. Don't know how he ranked though.

As for the invitation, well, it'd be a bit difficult to come to Ohio to face you, pretty far from Quebec XD

back on the subject: I played with lots of good player on brawl, and I perform pretty well, with samus, even against MKs, Marths and other ez mode character. I thought long on the tier issue, and came to this conclusion:

- In reality, the game is pretty balanced
- The tier list doesn't represent the character potential or tournament results, but How much a character is EZ mode.

So, that's what I think would be the Easiness tier list

EZ tier (not necessarily in this order)
- Metaknight
- Snake
- Wolf
- Marth
- Toon Link
- Diddy Kong
- Olimar

The not-too-difficult-to-play-tier
- Mario and pretty much every other character in the game except those in the lower tiers

The you-need-the-SKILLZ tier
- Samus
- Sonic
- Link

so, yeah. The reals use characters that require skill to play. You're pro or you're noob, that's life.
 

Paradigm

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
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700
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St. Brutus's Secure Center for Incurably Criminal
I, err, meant online. If I remember correctly Ohio is below Ontario's eastern side. The latency to Toronto, for example, should be quite good.

But yeah, can't say I know any Canadian Samus's at all; that probably explains it. I do know some of the other names you've dropped, though.

Kage got out of the first two pools at Pound3 but just barely didn't make the bracket. I don't think I played him.

I also know who Pkmvodka is. He was in my first pool at FC Diamond. It was actually a memorable match for me - he powershielded a charge shot which I powershielded back at him for a KO. While the powershield exchange had me *feeling* like I won, he beat me pretty solidly. If you can beat him I'm in no position to argue against you about Samus vs Falcon in Melee, lol. Most trash talk I could drop in this regard is that I almost took a game off Jiano at Pound3 in the second set of pools, if you know who that is. Almost ):

I think chesterr also attended FC, but I'm not 100% on that. I've heard of him but never played him.

Even so, I still have a hard time considering Brawl anywhat balanced. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Even so, I still have a hard time considering Brawl anywhat balanced. I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise.
I know, it isn't balanced. You have a few guys that clearly **** on the top, and a few guys at the bottom that are close to unusable and you even have easy exploits like Marth's CG on Ness and Lucas which are gay. That is not balanced at all.

In Melee you have tons of advanced commands that can be exploited by everyone. Brawl? Just powershielding really.

Whoever adapts best to the properties of the shield wins in Brawl. Basically this means MK is probably the best since he is almost always safe on block and can shield poke like almost nobody else. His OOS options are also too good.

Characters like Snake, DDD, and G&W have other good ways of dealing with shields, so they are really good too.

Captain Falcon for example however is really terrible at dealing with shields (largely due to having no grab range) so he sucks.
 

toasty

Smash Hero
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Nov 3, 2006
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Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA - IT'S SOVA, BABY! <
haha i know a guy who used his controller chord to choke someone...and actually said before hand "im gonna choke you with my choke chord."
That was the most awkward moment of my entire smash life. ****ing Red Marth.

Also (to contribute what I can as someone who's never played as Samus in any of the Smash games), everything G-Reg said is pretty much correct [no, I'm not d.ck sucking VA/EC] and details most of what I've faced whenever I play GUM >_< There are ways around it (though limited and not full-proof), but from my experience as a Samus victim, her pressuring abilities are ridiculous...unless you have a GOOD reflector (ROB does not :() and faster projectiles that stun (Read: not Fox's lasers) If you have an aerial that can cancel the missiles, they'll just Zair you as you cancel them >_>
 

gantrain05

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
3,840
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Maxwell, IA
well after a few days of practicing up on samus, i've come to the conclusion that samus is actually pretty decent character, not strengths but not many weaknesses either, she seems like she's pretty neutral against most people, i'd probably place her in mid tier. good projectiles + good priority = pretty darn good character, on the bad side, she seems very light to me, and she floats like a feather, i actually think kirby free falls faster than she does so she's very easy to k.o. off the top, quick tilts and quick smashes make her deadly up close and power missiles and charge shot make her a threat from a distance, i see her as a pretty solid character.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
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Temple University, Philadelphia
It's called crouch cancelling.

Samus is among the heaviest characters in the game.

Samus is the 2nd slowest faller in the game. (1st being jiggs)

Get your facts straight before talking about Samus.

My current opinion of Samus is bottom tier. She has some strong suits, but her weaknesses outweigh her pros. Samus will make a great CP char, but not a main. If by chance the Samus community discovers something amazing with Samus, that could improve her tier placing, but until then, Samus is one of the game's worst characters.
 

Umpadumpalump

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
87
The problem I found with Samus was that she fell too slow. I didn't really have problems in any other areas.
 

Hive

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
1,605
Location
Mountain View, ca
Yea, but you guys are severely underrating three things:
-Samus' grab jabs do a 1% damage each time... with just 130 of these it sets up most enemies with a dtilt ko easily.
-Her first jab is amazingly quick, has low knockback (so they don't get away), and does 3% damage. three times as much than her grab jab alone.
-and her uair is great for edgeguarding because it allows the enemy to reuse their recovery and get back to the ledge for more grab jab beating. Its also almost COMPLETELY unexpected. Enemies i find have no idea how to counter.
 

Hive

Smash Lord
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Sep 12, 2006
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Its too bad really :( that samus got nerfed so much.... I was at least hoping she'd escape bottom tier and get to mid... but I guess that's not probably going to happen now, huh?
Who do you think she is better than though? I mean, she's definitely not the worst... :) All this samus slamming is getting depressing, we can still feel cheerful about annhilating ganondorfs and captain falcons!
 

Gum

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 19, 2007
Messages
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Everywhere you wanna be
To address one of your questions Hive I honestly believe that her only real tough match ups are Marth and MK, actually moreso MK and Olimar. Beating Ganondorfs and C. Falcon aside, she doesn't seem to have any particular problem with any of the cast, and this is with all the oh-so-rough nerfing everyone keeps complaining about. I remember when people were saying squirtle was amazing against her, when he and the other pokemon ended up being some of her best match-ups. I honestly think she can tango evenly with Snake, ROB, and Toon Link.

About the red marth thing, it was a little incident that happened last summer. I won't say names but basically a dude got so mad while he was playing melee that he actually yanked his controller cord out of the gamecube and proceeded to choke one of his opponents with it (this was in a teams match.) The name 'red marth' came from the fact that he used Marth in his red costume, and at the start of one of the matches he took forever (like literally almost 4 mnutes) to switch his character from Marth to whoever else he was gonna use.
 

toasty

Smash Hero
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Nov 3, 2006
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Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA - IT'S SOVA, BABY! &lt;
The saga of Red Marth is far more epic than the little teaser of an explanation Gum gave. That **** was unreal. I won't say names either, but I shall shed some light on this legend.

This was at a large tournament in North Carolina last summer. 70-80 attendants including a ton of out-of-state kids, Gum and myself included. It was a multi-day event. The first night was friendlies, which means everyone stayed up the whole time. The next day was the tournament [teams/singles] and after singles was over, everyone continued playing.

Around 3 or 4 AM Sunday morning, people were still playing and then the focus switched to teams friendlies. Two of the top placers were on the TV for a while since no one was beating them. They didn't need to try very hard as most of the teams they played against were far inferior to their pro-level skills. There was a small group of people still awake just watching this happen...at some point, it was just one team trying to face these nonchalant monsters. Try as they might, nothing worked. No matches were close, but they weren't outright slaughters either, so hope still remained for these struggling players...

It should be noted that 3 out of the 4 people in these team matches enjoy talking ****............a lot. But it's the competitive kind. The kind that adds some heat to the battles. The 3 people included the two dominating forces and one from the weaker pair. The two veterans thought that they could at least find a worthy adversary in the art of talking **** and starting giving twice as good as they were getting.

The verbal massacre that commenced match after match inspired from the loser the wittiest of retorts including, but not limited to, "how many d.cks does your mom have?"

but that's okay. **** talking is part of competition, like I said. but it never gets personal. This genius decides to go against that and makes a direct shot at a physical attribute of one of his opponents....and his partner, a fantastic Yoshi player, just shook his head in silent embarrassment. By now it's 6 AM and the other players realized "oh!...so that's how it's going to be" and decided to up the ante: they actually started TRYING.

after half a dozen team-7stocks and 8stocks happened [against all of the offender's various characters], he decides to choose Marth [and they were on the red team]. The guy he insulted declares, mid match, "dude, this Yoshi is ****ing sweet!...but Red Marth? yeah, Red Marth is ****ing garbage. **** Red Marth." After this moment, he was never referred to as anything other than Red Marth. No matter what character he chose [the first match after Red Marth was born is what Gum was referring to...with taking forever to choose his next character....mostly because they kept egging him on and repeatedly told Red Marth to choose his character. They even went so far as to loudly pick apart his character-specific strategies every time he chose someone............eventually he settled on Red Marth again]

The **** and the **** talking gets out of hand, as does the abuse of this player's unauthorized new Smash name...

And that's when he mumbled something that sent a chill down the spines of anyone within earshot. That is...if he said what we thought he said.

"If you don't shut the **** up I'm going to jump over my teammate and choke you with my *inaudible* cord" [though it was probably "controller cord" it sounded like he said "choke cord"].....the match continued in awkward silence. This was specifically directed at the partner of the person Red Marth insulted. You can tell he's aching to respond....and finally decides to let out some famous last words...

"What the ****'s a choke cord?"

IMMEDIATELY Red Marth rips out his controller cord, doubles it over, leaps over his teammate and proceeds to strangle the guy for a brief moment. A firm hand on his chest from the victim snaps him out of his blinding white rage and he releases the pressure of the cord. Meanwhile everyone who just witnessed this is frozen in silence and mental fighter stance. So many thoughts are filling the silence and I'm pretty sure most of us were thinking some of the same things:
"is this **** really happening??"
"is something about to go down?!........and if it does.....who the **** is going to have Red Marth's back???"

Realizing he just violently assaulted someone over, ultimately, a video game, Red Marth stands up...........................plugs his controller in, while looking directly in the eyes of the other team, sits back down...and continues to play the match out.

Needless to say, everyone stopped playing after that.

After some time and much discussion/shared shock with the victim and his teammate...hideously brilliant plans for revenge were hatched but eventually only took two forms:

1) I got the tourney hosts to change the guy's name in the results post to Red Marth

2) the victim, a pro among pros, pulled some strings [or at least someone did on his behalf] and Red Marth's SWF name actually got CHANGED to RED MARF.

And that is the epic tale of Red Marth.
 

Hive

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
1,605
Location
Mountain View, ca
lol that IS epic!
I like how he just sits back down and wants to play. ("just strangled some guy, no big deal, let's play")
 
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