Snake vs. Marth

[Berserker.]

And plus, some of his attacks or kind of hard to dodge like d-tilt, we don't have an Oos against

 

[etecoon]

simple solution to that: don't hang out in front of marth at that range. if he's trying to dtilt you and you're not giving him the right spacing for it, he's either going to whiff it(free punish), or he's going to misspace it and then you do have OOS options against it. camp, make him approach, and punish. note that punishing is often indirect, for instance yes marth rising fair isn't directly punishable, if you dash attack immediately you'll miss and leave yourself open, but now marth is in the air above you and has to land, he willingly put himself in a bad situation. it's not as safe as it initially appears but it works as a gimmick factor when you haven't considered what his landing options are and how to counter them

 

[Berserker.]

Oh thanks, also I have some short tips:

Whiffed f-air can be punished by a dash attack. Usually if your at a far distance, you should medium throw a grenade on Marth. While it's bouncing it's starting to get cooked and then when it's ABOUT (Not when) it's going to explode, shield drop nade then get it then pull out another nade then regrab the shield dropped nade then throw it to Marth oh also throw the other nade.

Oh and also if you don't know this, Marth can f-throw-->100% sweetspot f-smash Snake not only if he's 0%. Probably until 30-40%

 

[Shaya]

Marths up air covers more horizontal range than MKs uair.
His fair or bair arent SDIable. Both of those cover huge arcs in the air. Nair beats air dodges.
Difference in mobility means something, Snake can fast fall an aerial if MK whiffs due to MKs poor fast fall and aerial momentum. Marth can cover himself completely with uair/fair/bair.
How often do you see Ally punish a whiffed MK aerial during juggling?
How often is that even POSSIBLE against Marth in this match up?

If Marth does a rising fair on snake and hes close enough, dash attack wont hit him, and snake will be too far away to do much. Snake isnt so great at covering landings on both sides of him anyway... the better aerial mobility and the coverage, cross over ability and safeness on shield of fast fall uair wreck Snakes attempts to punish landing. MK cant do that either, the closest thing he has is tornadoing... or MAYBE a lucky neutral air.

There are so many things Marth can do in this match up compared to what MK can do.

 

[Bizkit047]

You should watch M2K Vs Ally from VC when they're uploaded. MK definitely outdoes Marth in the air against Snake.

 

[etecoon]

the better aerial mobility and the coverage, cross over ability and safeness on shield of fast fall uair wreck Snakes attempts to punish landing. MK cant do that either, the closest thing he has is tornadoing... or MAYBE a lucky neutral air.

MK doesn't NEED a "omg need to land what can I do that's safe" option, he can just stall until he has an opening and retreat to the ledge or another stage area if it doesn't present itself. much harder to predict than marth

 

[Shaya]

I think you missed the point that I made a distinction between:
MK is forced to reset the situation/move away to be safe (which technically isnt resetting a situation when snake has nades)
Marth continues to attack snakes blindspots and apply pressure with SAFE MOVES that leaves snake with little options.

 

[Berserker.]

^ What he said.

My true final ratio 50:50 or most likely 55:45 Marth

 

[luke_atyeo]

shaya knows what he's talking about guys, he's played alot of snakes, placed highly when he came to america, and has seen ally v m2k (he recorded their grand final matches privately during genesis)

anyways the point I was making was that marth juggles snake better then mk, and shaya gave good reasons why

the matchup is pretty even, 50:50 imo, marth does have some **** things on snake but likewise snake has **** stuff too and has a large error margin.

 

[Attila_]

shaya knows what he's talking about guys, he's played alot of snakes, placed highly when he came to america, and has seen ally v m2k (he recorded their grand final matches privately during genesis)

anyways the point I was making was that marth juggles snake better then mk, and shaya gave good reasons why

the matchup is pretty even, 50:50 imo, marth does have some **** things on snake but likewise snake has **** stuff too and has a large error margin.

but he still can't beat me! ha!

but yes, marth juggles better than mk does. mk does lower % gimps much better, but rather, marth specializes in killing snake after hitting him off the ledge properly. recovering against marth is stupid hard. he can wait for an airdodge or punish your landing lag. he walks faster than you move in the air, so he can do utilts whenever you land. how annoying!

snake just has to make sure he takes a stock before marth knocks him off. i cant see this being in snakes favour, but i think its even, or perhaps even slightly in marths favour.

 

[etecoon]

shaya knows what he's talking about guys, he's played alot of snakes, placed highly when he came to america, and has seen ally v m2k (he recorded their grand final matches privately during genesis)

we know he's good and that he's knowledgeable, that doesn't mean you should listen to everything he says, it doesn't work like that. ****, M2K repeatedly has said that diddy is the best character in the game, no one listens to him(and they shouldn't) <_<

granted I agree with him on the point of marth > MK at juggling snake, but I don't like appeal to authority arguments

the matchup is pretty even, 50:50 imo, marth does have some **** things on snake but likewise snake has **** stuff too and has a large error margin.

snake's margin for error actually isn't that large. particularly one instance of bad DI at any time can completely **** you over

 

[Berserker.]

Well, Snake can't do much against Marth's juggling so a long ranged u-air will obviously reach Snake. If Snake tries to air dodge, he'll just get punished >_>. Oh I just found out, b-reversal out of juggling is still useless since Marth's u-air can still reach Snake. so I suggest soft throw a nade-->medium throw a nade so Marth can't really hit Snake because if he attempts to, the nades might as well explode. Just stay beside the nades while your falling to the ground. Marth can fastfall then punish though so you should fast fall also while your nades bounce on the ground.

 

[luke_atyeo]

yeah fair enough etecoon I can see where your coming from, it sure is nice to have someone else intelligent around here, good work

 

[smashkng]

I hate when I get hit by an unexpected tipper fsmash on me and in moments I'm not DIing, killing me at insanely low percents.

Although fair, juggling and Dancing Blade and his stupid long disjointed range can become extremely annoying, it's around 50/50. While Marth can edge guard Snake pretty easily, Marth's recovery is also very easy to punish by edge hogging, often allowing grabs, or Utilt for kills when he is around 100-110% (Marth is pretty light) and Snake can still live to very high percents as long as Marth doesn't land a tipper. Snake also deals huge damage in his tilts and can punish a missed up b with a guaranteed fsmash.

IMO the matchup is even, thanks to Snake's ability to live and kill Marth at pretty low percents, only that it's just a very annoying matchup just like DDD. IMO the Bans and CPs are so. Avoid Castle Siege and BF, CP PS1 or Halberd. Avoid the air and offstage, which isn't easy, and you're fine.

 

[Berserker.]

Halberd?

Actually, you should go to halberd but it's more recommended to go to FD.

Halberd seems even to both but I'll give the edge to Snake.

Spoiler

Halberd is Snake's best stage if you didn't know smash kng
This is the second time that happened. Last time in the Link MU, you said RC is good against Link when it's not. Lol, I'm not trolling or flaming you. I'm just telling you to read more about characters and play more friendlies

 

[smashkng]

Read again and tell me what CP means. I think you didn't understand what I meant with CP. The reason I said PS1 is because when I play Marths in it seems like it's a very good stage against him. And the weird ledges makes it easier to punish Marth's recovery.

 

[Berserker.]

Counter pick and you said

CP PS1 or Halberd

Whoops! Mistaken for DDD mu

 

[Shaya]

PS1 is annoying.
I hate Frigate too...
But I hate frigate full stop and refuse to play marth on it.

 

[Berserker.]

Read again and tell me what CP means. I think you didn't understand what I meant with CP. The reason I said PS1 is because when I play Marths in it seems like it's a very good stage against him. And the weird ledges makes it easier to punish Marth's recovery.

Dude! I know what CP means "COUNTER PICK"

I'M NOT STUPID

I JUST MISREAD

STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT! IT'S A MISREAD!

Yes, I'm mad

 

[OverLade]

This matchup is sorta gay. My best recommendation is reverse nading when you predict a fair. If you time it right and shield no matter how well they space they'll hit the nade.

Ban BF, CP FD. Lylat sounds pretty good though I've never used it. PS1 I wouldn't risk but prolly works for snake. Halberd is pretty good.

 

[iFudge]

-hasnt lost to a marth at halberd- c4/u-tilt just ***** too much there.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Frigate is in general a bad stage for Marth, yeah it be a good CP.

And ban Brinstar vs Marth.

 

[Superspright]

Why doesn't anyone try to do this? If you get knocked off stage, soft toss a grenade then cypher regularly, you can cancel it with an airdodge, catch the nade. You have about 1.5 seconds left before it blows on average. If you can time it right he can't punish you, just airdodge when it's about to explode and FF.

 

[etecoon]

against a highly mobile character like marth that can KO you off stage very easily it's not wise to spend a lot of time getting vertical, it can work once or twice for the novelty but it's not a strategy you can rely on vs marth

 

[Berserker.]

Throwing nades off-stage is too limited. I think b-reversal mixed up with cypher is better

Seriously smashkng, let me get this straight:

I KNOW WHAT CP MEANS FROM THE START STOP THINKING I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT CP MEANS! I AM NOT DUMB! I KNOW WHAT IT ***CKIN' MEANS!

 

[smashkng]

Stop posting that info more than once.

 

[Berserker.]

Oh sorry about that ^.^

I was kind of off

 

[Shaya]

And ban Brinstar vs Marth.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

YOU ARENT MEANT TO TELL THEM THATT

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[etecoon]

snake should be banning brinstar vs like half the cast anyway <___< srsly

 

[clowsui]

please don't use lylat against marth...it's his 2nd best neutral behind bf

 

[Attila_]

marth is the **** on brinstar. ban ban ban.

frigate is a logical cp (screws his recovery, doesnt really effect yours), halberd is never bad for snake, and lylat works too cause the music is epic.

 

[Bizkit047]

Lylat will only work if your opponent is generally bad at keeping track of your explosives. I really wouldn't recommend CPing it though. Stick to Halberd, then Frigate, then probably FD or SV. Most Marths will probably ban Halberd though. Marth can't afford to die at like 90% against Snake.

 

[Attila_]

does a properly spaced utilt beat an fair? that would be epic.

 

[etecoon]

does a properly spaced utilt beat an fair? that would be epic.

no, in general marth is pretty good at staying out of utilt range which is partly what makes him an annoying character. there are a lot of characters that snake can say "I get my *** kicked in this matchup but I still win because I live to 200% and my opponent dies at 100%", that's partly why marth is around even instead of being in snake's favor, he can avoid snake's hardest hitting attacks and himself is pretty good at KOing snake

 

[Anaky]

I find this matchup really awqard, i think tis pretty much like Fox vs Marth in Melee, once Marth gets Snake in the air its gonna be like 40%, but first off you have to get Snake in the air, and thats the problem, while ur trying to get him in the air hes gonna be dealing loads of damage on you, and dont forget we die at what? 115% from utilt? where as he doesnt die til like 180%.

I play against a Snake every week, i find it stressful having to get him off the ground while avoiding all his nades, IMO bcuz Snake doenst die until like 180% and Marth dies earlier, i think its slightly in Snakes favour, say about 55:45 Snake.

 

[Limeee]

just fair snake all dai to win, and if he baits the fair by walking backwards with a grenade, just upthrow and juggle till he escapes, then start fairing again

i hate this matchup

 

[etecoon]

just fair snake all dai to win, and if he baits the fair by walking backwards with a grenade, just upthrow and juggle till he escapes, then start fairing again

i hate this matchup

I started playing marth more recently

I love this matchup : )

for real though there's no way in hell snake wins, at best it's even and I'm pretty certain that marth has a bit of an advantage.

 

[Berserker.]

I also love the MU.

The MU overall is 50:50 but if not then 49:51 or 45:55 Marth

 

[Calzorz]

I find this matchup really awqard, i think tis pretty much like Fox vs Marth in Melee, once Marth gets Snake in the air its gonna be like 40%, but first off you have to get Snake in the air, and thats the problem, while ur trying to get him in the air hes gonna be dealing loads of damage on you, and dont forget we die at what? 115% from utilt? where as he doesnt die til like 180%.

I play against a Snake every week, i find it stressful having to get him off the ground while avoiding all his nades, IMO bcuz Snake doenst die until like 180% and Marth dies earlier, i think its slightly in Snakes favour, say about 55:45 Snake.

you think its in my favour now xD? no no no man i still thinks its in marths favour just my opinion tho

here are recent vids of me vs anakin in this matchup and how we both struggle in diffrent postions check it out and make ur own opinion as we have all seen mikehaze vs ally and cant judge from 1 snake and marth

Winner Finals:

Game 1 & 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uShwoQEKIc
Game 3 & 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3j4gMtGMIk&feature=related
Game 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZmmbvtKrc0&feature=related

 

[Anonymous24]

I believe that Snake and Marth have there advantages and disadvantages. But Im slighting in more favor of snake rather than Marth. I have to say because Snake has a much more variety of range compared to marth in his attacks, he has much more power. With a good snake also grenades are a great asset and benefit for snake such as glide toss, holding the bomb then either back up slightly then use the shield (dodge or grab either way to release the grenade to the ground) then do DACUS, and either throw it to the ground if Marths hit above or to your left if he swayed to the left for a sufficient attack (if not dodged) etc .Marth has speed and is able to juggle more efficiently in close quarters than snake due to his speed and swiftness. Theres an endless possibilities but for snake its recovery, more techniques than marth (hes restricted to his boundaries) if used the right way, power, and whats better in snakes case his average speed (can be wrong), and range. thats my opinion on the matter I can be wrong.