Smashing Entries Volume 1: Has Nintendo been neglecting it's core gamers?

[PieDisliker]

My AUNT plays that game. Yeah, it's pretty casual friendly.

Yet games like Mario Party and DK Barrel Blast aren't?

 

[finalark]

Yet games like Mario Party and DK Barrel Blast aren't?

He didn't highlight them? Didn't notice...

 

[Deleted member]

And you got into gaming in 1999, right? What was your first console? I'm just kind of curious.

Actually, I got into gaming in 1998 when I was living at my mom's and stepdad's house. I moved to my grandparents in 1999. I started gaming reguarly on Christmas, 1999. The first console I got was the Nintendo 64.

 

[Talwind]

It's not all yoga, but it's still a fitness tool. I've played the game myself, this isn't just my judgment before actually touching the game. Just because it offers some fun doesn't mean it's necessarily a game.

Whats makes Wii Fit less than a game than something like pong.

I love how you selectively read. Maybe you'll actually see it this time.

I DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM WITH THE WII ANYMORE. I STILL HAVE SOME ENJOYMENT WITH IT. JUST NOT ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS WITH THE GAMECUBE.

(I did, however, get Galaxy and find it mediocre. *Waits to be called a troll/making it up because I WANT to hate Nintendo, since I'm not allowed to have my own opinion*)

And no, I don't intend to just shut up about my opinion because you don't like it.

=D

I own ~20 Wii games, few of which I actually like.

Thats what you wrote, I'm not sure how or why you're trying to spin it to mean anything different from what you said and what I was responding to. What made you start enjoying the wii now as opposed to before?
You know what three big titles f the Wii got when it came out?; Zelda, Metroid, Mario. Guess what three big Nintendo games most people are anticipating this year? Zelda, Metroid, Mario. I dont see whats changed much.

Also why are you baiting me to call you out as some troll? I dont think I've personally tried to insult or discredit you. I really have no problem if you want to continue or not.

People don't understand exaggeration for the sake of effect anymore, for crying out loud. It's an extreme example to prove my point. No, Nintendo's games aren't dog crap.

Stop taking things so literally. I even said "if", it was clearly supposed to be theoretical.

It was a pretty poor analogy. I take when you say dog crap you mean something truly terrible, Ive tried to look at the actual games as objectively as I can but I know none of them even touch that category.

Still not calling them dog crap.

And that argument is really quite horrible. Sonic Unleashed came from the same series as Sonic Adventure 2. I would actually come close to equating Unleashed with dog crap, whereas Sonic Adventure 2 is one of my favorite games.

You are essentially saying that if you like one game in a series, you will always like every other game in the series too. That makes no sense at all whatsoever.

If it were common for Nintendo's games to take extreme dips in quality between each game and/or has been passed around by various different dev teams and directors, you may have had a point. And (imo) I think all of the 3D Sonics are pretty mediocre, it doesnt help that Sega/Sonic Team dont know wtf they're doing anymore.

I don't find it to be a unique and satisfying experience, I find it to be an extra $20 (from the Motion+) that's going to lie around with Wii Sports and Wii Play as a game I haven't played in months, potentially even a year at this point.

I'm not passing over it because it's a Wii ___ title, I'm passing over it because it's a minigame collection which I'll get little enjoyment from.

You're right, though, it makes sense to blow my money on games I'll take away little enjoyment from.

If you're not getting the product that fully showcases the capability of WM+ why are you even consider getting WM+? The way you're gonna experience it is not gonna change outside of WSR albeit some small improvements to core functions. And I didn't realize golf bowling and and games of table tennis became minigames.

Okay, I'm sorry, people are stupid. No, I'm not saying people who buy those games are stupid, people in general are stupid. Please don't tell me that what's worth it to the general population means that me not thinking it's worth it is close-minded or cheap.

You're pretty much calling people who prefer different products and tastes stupid. And if you're not, then I'm not sure what your point even is. Again with the victimizing gimmick..I wasn't planning on insulting you.

I liked Super Mario Sunshine far more than SMG. NSMBWii it's hard to decide since they're fairly different.

Please don't act as if Nintendo has been producing objectively better games.

And someone can absolutely detest SMS and love Galaxy and NSMB to death. I dont really see your point. What I was getting at was the fact that Nintendo is pushing out core games in the same clip or even faster than previous gens.

You're right.

No one legitimately disagrees with you, they're just too blind to see the truth that is your opinion.

Elitists piss me off.

Not sure why you feel the need to go on a nasty attack mode. You didn't really elaborate so I'm gonna stop here.

This definitely wasn't already said in the topic, people definitely haven't already agreed that it's true, and finalark and I definitely didn't point out that it's irrelevant to the point "Has Nintendo been neglecting its core gamers".

Since I have trouble reading sarcasm over the internet, you're gonna have to go over this one again and explain what you're trying to say to me.

No they haven't.

The Wii's library for the first two years sucked hard. It's improving now, but it hasn't been good since the beginning. Even as someone who doesn't have much of a problem with Nintendo anymore I'll definitely say that's true.

What are they improving on NOW that they weren't doing before? If a person didnt like Nintendo's output then I dont see why that person would be looking forward to their games now.

 

[Firus]

For those who use entire sentences in caps, please stop. You're making yourself look like your yelling and maybe flaming another person, which is an infraction of the rules.

Flaming has to do with the content of a post, not how much it seems like yelling. And I only put sentences in capitals when people fail to hear the first 5 times I say something.

@finalark: Reggie Fils-Aime said the game will have 90% new contents and be more challenging then the original.

First of all, people lie to sell games.

Second of all, "new content" probably means new levels and such. Guess what expansion packs generally have? New levels.

I don't necessarily think it's going to be an expansion pack, but bad arguments are bad.

@Purple Mantis: But who will be Microsoft's gaming industry once Master Cheif get put in the back burner indefindenty?

What are you talking about? You think Microsoft is going to stop milking the Halo series?

...Lawl.

Does anyone see TP for the gamecube around anymore? I want to play that version of the game. It seemed like the controls were a little sloppy as far as movement in the wii version. Really that was only complaint. Up wasn't awlays up and I couldn't walk or posistion myself how I wanted sometimes. And it was just because of unresponsiveness on the nunchucks's part.

Yeah, I've seen it around. I bought myself a copy fairly recently. It didn't work at first, so I had to bring it back and exchange for another copy, which worked.

I do agree though that the difficulty and quality in general seems on a decline since the wii came out, even on DS titles. When the DS was a lone next gen handheld, do you know what we got? Mario 64, a kick *** demo for Metroid Prime Hunters, and Mario Kart..those are the biggest ones that stand out to me since I got those ones. Those were the kinds of games coming out. It didn't seem to me until after the wii started going that we started to see so many of these mini-game/none game games.

Metroid Prime Hunters...was kind of a generic FPS supposedly set in a Metroid world. >_> I sort of hate that game.

I'd say the DS actually has the most going for it in 3rd party software, although it's pretty much amazing no matter what. TWEWY and Phoenix Wright are two of the best games I've ever played.

I saw the videos on the Nintendo Channel, and I am sure you did too.

No, I read about the features and saw the E3 trailer. I don't use the Nintendo Channel.

It seems to me that we will be getting both Metroid Prime controls and a 3rd-Person Adventure in one.

How are the gameplay features stupid if you get to do execution style moves on a Space Pirate, the kind of guys you want to defeat?

I don't understand.

Are you really saying that the gameplay is automatically awesome because you can do melee moves on enemies?

Ugh.

Not everything that looks "cool" makes for good gameplay.

I own and have played every Metroid game, and I've beaten the majority of them. Melee attacks are unprecedented, and if they overuse it to make it some sort of flashy ninja junk, that's going to be stupid and make Other M...not a Metroid game.

Spoiler

inb4"what'ssobadaboutnotbeingametroidgame

What I was ACTUALLY talking about:

- You have to switch to first-person mode to fire a missile, as well as scan and do other such things. You also cannot move in first-person mode. If this isn't integrated perfectly, it's going to be the most annoying thing ever.

- Auto-aiming.

- You can regenerate health by doing no more than "focusing".

Why? Well, unless you are an absolute Nintendo purist who refuses to play games unless you have it on the original system, the VC is the perfect way to enjoy many of Nintendo's older titles.

I get an incredibly condescending feel from the phrase "absolute Nintendo purist". This irks me.

'Cause. You know. Collectors who like to own the original game and permanently own the games as opposed to losing them some day when Nintendo removes VC service (they're going to do it eventually) are just crazy people.

Also, throwing us a ROM of an old game every now and then to potentially re-purchase and have to find room for doesn't really count as serving hardcore gamers. It's a cool feature, but you can't justify a new console by saying that people can play old games on it.

...Wario Ware: Smooth Moves listed as a casual game.

WTF

Yet games like Mario Party and DK Barrel Blast aren't?

Well then complain about those games not being marked casual, not about a casual game being marked as casual.

Whats makes Wii Fit less than a game than something like pong.

Its purpose is to make you fit.

Thats what you wrote, I'm not sure how or why you're trying to spin it to mean anything different from what you said and what I was responding to.

*Sigh*

For one thing, I take that back, I would say more than a few.

But I was talking about the five other places I said I didn't have that much of a problem anymore, and you're talking about "buyer's remorse" and all of that crap.

What made you start enjoying the wii now as opposed to before?
You know what three big titles f the Wii got when it came out?; Zelda, Metroid, Mario. Guess what three big Nintendo games most people are anticipating this year? Zelda, Metroid, Mario. I dont see whats changed much.

I said I'm enjoying the Wii more now, not that it's looking like it's going to improve. It's not solely based on the upcoming titles at all.

Basically, hacking and NSMBWii have recently given me more of a positive outlook on it.

I dunno, I think part of it is that I've just gotten tired of being angry of Nintendo/the Wii.

Also why are you baiting me to call you out as some troll? I dont think I've personally tried to insult or discredit you. I really have no problem if you want to continue or not.

I've been called a troll for not liking Galaxy. I'm not baiting you into anything, I was just trying to beat anyone to the punch if they were planning on it.

It wasn't only directed at you, it was directed at anyone.

It was a pretty poor analogy. I take when you say dog crap you mean something truly terrible, Ive tried to look at the actual games as objectively as I can but I know none of them even touch that category.

It's not an ANALOGY, it's a COMPARISON. There's a difference. I'm trying to show the extreme side, not total equivalents. I thought I made that perfectly clear.

If it were common for Nintendo's games to take extreme dips in quality between each game and/or has been passed around by various different dev teams and directors, you may have had a point. And (imo) I think all of the 3D Sonics are pretty mediocre, it doesnt help that Sega/Sonic Team dont know wtf they're doing anymore.

Games CHANGE, they don't have to dip in quality. If the next Zelda game is the best first-person shooter out there I'm not going to like it because it's a first-person shooter. You're essentially saying that franchises stay EXACTLY the same throughout, and that's just completely untrue.

(The quality of the Sonic games is not my point. I was pointing out that it's actually possible to not always like every game in a series just because you like one of them.)

If you're not getting the product that fully showcases the capability of WM+ why are you even consider getting WM+? The way you're gonna experience it is not gonna change outside of WSR albeit some small improvements to core functions.

I don't intend to get the attachment just so I can see it showcased, believe it or not. I'm going to get it when a game that has depth and the like in it, like Zelda Wii, potentially.

I'm not getting it for the gimmick, I'm getting it for its application to real gaming.

And I didn't realize golf bowling and and games of table tennis became minigames.

They are in the environment of the Wii ___ games.

You're pretty much calling people who prefer different products and tastes stupid. And if you're not, then I'm not sure what your point even is. Again with the victimizing gimmick..I wasn't planning on insulting you.

I'm not "pretty much" anything, I said, flat-out, that the general population is stupid, no matter how much they agree or disagree with me. I don't know how you interpret what I'm "pretty much" saying from what I blatantly said.

As someone who has worked in retail, I have found that an astounding number of people are pure idiots. This isn't a statement on the gaming community, it's a statement on the human race.

I also wasn't using any sort of "victimizing gimmick"...I'm actually not sure what I was saying with that last comment. I forgot. >_> Disregard it.

And someone can absolutely detest SMS and love Galaxy and NSMB to death. I dont really see your point. What I was getting at was the fact that Nintendo is pushing out core games in the same clip or even faster than previous gens.

I thought by "SMG, SMG2, NSMB > SMS" you meant that they were better games, not that there were more of them. My bad.

Not sure why you feel the need to go on a nasty attack mode. You didn't really elaborate so I'm gonna stop here.

It wasn't nasty attack mode. You said that people who have a problem with the Wii are too blind to see actual game quality, as if people who have a problem with the Wii don't legitimately have a problem with game quality and just don't have the same opinion as you.

Unless I grossly misinterpreted that, I stand by my anger at the elitism of that.

Since I have trouble reading sarcasm over the internet, you're gonna have to go over this one again and explain what you're trying to say to me.

People have pointed out that Nintendo is benefiting from their current way of doing business in this topic before.

Finalark also pointed out that that piece of information is irrelevant to the question here, which is about WHAT they're doing with their games, not if it's smart financially. We know it's smart for them to go after the general population, but that doesn't necessarily give us more enjoyment from their products.

EDIT: Ugh, I get so ragey in these kinds of debates sometimes, and I'm not sure why. I'm sorry about that.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

We didn't know in 2004 that what we got in the demo was going to be pretty much it.. I did say demo not the actual game. Not surprisingly the actual game came out after the wii.

And I'm going to assume you get so ragey because people make you say the same exact thing over and over again. lol

 

[NintendoMan07]

So... I figure I'll say my piece and if people want to jump me for any thing, feel free. Just be aware that I may not respond if I don't feel invested enough in this issue.

First, I'll say this: Yeah, I'm pretty much a Nintendo fanboy. Not necessarily mindless, not too stubborn, but a fairly loyal purchaser of Nintendo's products (though I HAVE held a Playstation controller in my hands before, though).

Next, the topic. Do I think Nintendo's neglecting core gamers? To me, neglect implies something of a black-and-white situation, so my answer is no. Core gamers aren't being addressed adequately enough, however, IMO. So my answer becomes yes if we allow shades of gray/grey (whichever spelling is the right one in this context) here.

As for my personal experiences, I've generally enjoyed the Wii's games. That doesn't say much, as I generally just follow the premise that the game is good enough for me if it keeps me entertained. I can nitpick on certain aspect (gameplay, graphics, design, etc.), but I generally don't write anything detailed about games.

But I HAVE noticed that lately most of my game purchases have been VC games, and that I don't have many Wii titles. Going to the store to actually purchase a Wii game results in me facepalming at the rows and rows of fitness/cooking/whatever-else games before I settle for a more appealing DS game.

So I feel Nintendo's focused a bit too much on the casual market, although I buy into the casual stockpile sometimes (I have WarioWare: Smooth Moves and Wario Land: Shake It!. Dismiss me now.), contributing to the... problem.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Exhibit A: Brawl

 

[Deleted member]

What are you talking about? You think Microsoft is going to stop milking the Halo series?

...Lawl.

It is possible. Halo: Reach will be Bungie's last game in the Halo series and Microsoft might realize an drop in quality. If so, then they might put the series to rest.

Now you may argue that Mario and Zelda have been milked even worse, but think about it. Those franchise have manage to retain nearly unprecedented quality throughtout 20+ years in there main installments.

 

[Firus]

We didn't know in 2004 that what we got in the demo was going to be pretty much it.. I did say demo not the actual game. Not surprisingly the actual game came out after the wii.

And I'm going to assume you get so ragey because people make you say the same exact thing over and over again. lol

Ohh, my bad. I don't know how I missed "demo" in that. Yeah, the demo was pretty cool.

And yeah, I would imagine that's part of it. I've been in too many of these debates before.

It is possible. Halo: Reach will be Bungie's last game in the Halo series and Microsoft might realize an drop in quality. If so, then they might put the series to rest.

Now you may argue that Mario and Zelda have been milked even worse, but think about it. Those franchise have manage to retain nearly unprecedented quality throughtout 20+ years in there main installments.

I sorta doubt it. Halo fans will keep buying the games unless there's a truly serious drop in quality, and as a business, it'd be silly not to put out more games that are going to be sold if they can still sell a fair number of them.

 

[Bowser King]

Dark Red Color = Games that were moreso aimed at the casual gamers and didn't appease the "Core" gamer

Red Color = Shovelware and/or casual games, which again doesn't appease the "Core" gamer

Yellow Color = The game was a GC Game that had been put on the Wii to help sell units

Green Color = Looks like shovelware and/or casual games that will release in the future that again doesn't please the "Core" gamer

The thread is about the "Core" gamers though, and loooking at all the Wii games that's majority of crap as i have highlighted the games that you have listed. Number of games doesn't mean the games are better, the GC had more quality games on it then the Wii has which is why alot of Wii Owners are upset with the fact that Nintendo isn't giving games for their "Core" audience that has kept them in business for all these years

See this is the one reason I hate the "casual" and "hardcore" terms. Casual does not equal crap or shovelware. That is a stupid conclusion that some people seem to come too when the hear "casual". There were a ton of "shovelware" games that you listed are, shockingly, good games.

The majority of shovelware games are made by 3rd parties that try and cash-in on casual gamers. Sadly, there games aren't selling that much and there now leaving the wii because "games don't sell on it".

At the whole "keeping them in business for all these years", are you serious? Nintendo was LAST with our help. That's beside the point though. I like the idea that "casuals" just sprouted this gen. You do realize that casual games sold really well last gen too right? Sure there selling more this gen (but when you think of it so has the wii compared to the GC) but that doesn't mean we have kept them in this business the whole time. I'm fairly sure casual families also bought harcore systems like the NES and SNES (most gamers usually start casual at some point). That's how I got mine at least (my dad bought it). There's a reason why Super Mario Bros sold so well and no its NOT because we gamers single handedly kept nintendo alive by buying there games.

 

[Black Mantis]

As long as I'm having fun playing a game that's all that matters. How somebody else views it is irrelevant. I could have fun playing Devil May Cry and then play Wii Sports Resort. However, let me say that I won't belittle people for their enjoyments even though I may not like it.

 

[SuperBowser]

Elaborate. From all of the expantion packs that I have played, it sure does look like one.

I guess you hated Mario Kart, Zelda, NSMBWii and the majority of sequels for any game by any company that get released. I'm sure you can argue this game is an expansion pack, but I'd like to see you do that without making a lot of other games seem the same way too.

Mario Galaxy already pushes the wii hardware just fine. I don't see anything wrong in spending the development resources on gameplay mechanics and levels (which is what I would be buying the game for anyway). If nintendo didn't do this, there simply wouldn't be a mario game coming till the next console and you'd be sitting here complaining how even less hardcore games are getting released.


This all comes down to why someone buys a mario game. I suspect most people buy a mario platformer because of its platforming - it always brings something new to the table and is simply better than other platformers. If that is not why you buy mario games, you're welcome to not buy the game. But calling it an expansion pack is still bizarre.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Nintendo is not doing anything wrong.

 

[Firus]

Nintendo is not doing anything wrong.

That totally contributed to the topic.

Putting a one-liner that directly replies to the title of the topic does absolutely nothing, especially when the discussion's evolved this much. Elaborate. What do you think is good about what Nintendo is doing? Why do you disagree with others who have said that Nintendo is doing something wrong?

 

[finalark]

I guess you hated Mario Kart, Zelda, NSMBWii and the majority of sequels for any game by any company that get released.

I love how because I say that Mario Galaxy 2 looks like an expantion pack you jump the gun and assume the same for everything. Let me just put it this way, if you were to tell me that... oh say.... Mario Kart 64 and Double Dash were the same game, I'd laugh in your face.

I'm sure you can argue this game is an expansion pack, but I'd like to see you do that without making a lot of other games seem the same way too.

Okay.

Sequel: Builds off of the gameplay set up by the last game in the series by keeping the same basic idea but altering or adding several mechanics so that way you're not playing the same game that you did last time.

Expantion pack: Game Play is exactly the same, only the expantion pack adds in more content to the game.

Mario Galaxy already pushes the wii hardware just fine. I don't see anything wrong in spending the development resources on gameplay mechanics and levels (which is what I would be buying the game for anyway). If nintendo didn't do this, there simply wouldn't be a mario game coming till the next console and you'd be sitting here complaining how even less hardcore games are getting released.

Adding in Yoshi or a drill thingy is not changing or improving the gameplay mechanics. Sure, they added in new levels but that's what expantion packs are for. And I laugh at how a kid's game is suddenly considered a "hardcore" game.

 

[Deleted member]

After 120+ posts, I'm actually surprised nobody brought up adversitement of Wii and DS products.

Nintendo's adversitement campaign is not the best that I've seen. With the Game Boy Advance, Nintendo Gamecube, and the early days of the Wii and DS, adversitement were frequent and pouring. However, in recent years, they have slowed to a trickle. The only game I can recall this year getting any adversitements on TV was Tatsunko Vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

After 120+ posts, I'm actually surprised nobody brought up adversitement of Wii and DS products.

Nintendo's adversitement campaign is not the best that I've seen. With the Game Boy Advance, Nintendo Gamecube, and the early days of the Wii and DS, adversitement were frequent and pouring. However, in recent years, they have slowed to a trickle. The only game I can recall this year getting any adversitements on TV was Tatsunko Vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars.

I believe, that Nintendo's ads were to have people buy a Wii. Everyone desiring a Wii now has one.

 

[Professor :3]

That totally contributed to the topic.

Putting a one-liner that directly replies to the title of the topic does absolutely nothing, especially when the discussion's evolved this much. Elaborate. What do you think is good about what Nintendo is doing? Why do you disagree with others who have said that Nintendo is doing something wrong?

You're talking to GunmasterLombardi, what do you expect from him? Something worth a grain of salt?

 

[SuperBowser]

stuff

I wasn't aware you played Mario Galaxy 2 already. What was it like?

If you honestly believe that new levels of the standard that Nintendo make are simply worth an expansion pack, don't buy the game. But lots of other people would say that is what makes a mario game. There will be new ideas that Mario Galaxy didn't have, because Nintendo aren't stupid. The game already offers some of the best graphics the wii will see. Why bother making a whole new coat of paint?


In all the examples I gave there are certain iterations that introduced very little that was new. I thought that was obvious >.> I really don't believe much gameplay changed in the latest console zelda. It was just new levels. What's your opinion on the last console zelda? On most first person shooters? On sports games and their continuous sequels? On Mario Party? On Wii Sports Resort? On Civilization? On tennis games? On jRPGs? On adventure games? On the upcoming Street Fighter? On Phoenix Wright?

A lot of these games are simply expansion packs under your definition.

edit: i think it's sad that mario can't be considered a hardcore game when he more or less defined gaming. says a lot about the term.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

"Nintento isn't doing anything wrong", should be obvious.

If you really cared for Nintendo you would enjoy the games like Ace Attorney and Smash Brothers instead of whining over no future Kirby/Starfox games.

Though no Earthbound on VC is hardly excusable.

 

[CaptainOlimar123]

And I laugh at how a kid's game is suddenly considered a "hardcore" game.

Mario is RATED E so Mario is for EVERYONE not just little kids.

 

[Deleted member]

I believe, that Nintendo's ads were to have people buy a Wii. Everyone desiring a Wii now has one.

Yeah that, but I'm talking about games for the Wii. They are either adversited poorly or received none at all. Excitebots: Trick Racing, my favorite racing game this generation, only sold 140,000 copies, a failure that can be completely blamed on Nintendo.

 

[finalark]

I wasn't aware you played Mario Galaxy 2 already. What was it like?

It was alright.

If you honestly believe that new levels of the standard that Nintendo make are simply worth an expansion pack, don't buy the game.

Okay, I won't.

But lots of other people would say that is what makes a mario game.

So buying the same game year after year is what makes Mario?

There will be new ideas that Mario Galaxy didn't have, because Nintendo aren't stupid.

We'll see.

The game already offers some of the best graphics the wii will see. Why bother making a whole new coat of paint?

And? The Wii can run better graphics, Nintendo isn't even trying.

In all the examples I gave there are certain iterations that introduced very little that was new. I thought that was obvious >.> I really don't believe much gameplay changed in the latest console zelda. It was just new levels.

If you're saying that Twilight Princess was the same exact game as OoT... well, I'm sick of that debate and I don't want to enter it again.

What's your opinion on the last console zelda?

Twilight Princess = win.

On most first person shooters? On sports games and their continuous sequels? On Mario Party? On Wii Sports Resort? On Civilization? On tennis games? On jRPGs? On adventure games? On the upcoming Street Fighter? On Phoenix Wright?

In order:

If you're saying that all FPS sequels are basically expantion packs... go play Resistance 1 then go play Resistance 2, for starters...

Don't know much about sports games, but I can say that nearly every Madden = expantion pack

Mario Party grew stale for me around the fourth instalment.

Wii Sports Resort = Expantion pack

I've never played civilization.

Why did you suddenly list tenis games as something apart for sports titles?

JRPGs and Adventure games, you did not just generalize two entire genres

Super Street Fighter IV is an expantion pack, that's why it's priced and advertised like one.

I've never played a Phoenix Wright.

A lot of these games are simply expansion packs under your definition.

I'd like to point out that you basically assumed that I think that every FPS, JRPG, Adventure game and sports game sequel is basically an expantion pack.

edit: i think it's sad that mario can't be considered a hardcore game when he more or less defined gaming. says a lot about the term.

So the words "hardcore" get thrown around a lot. Can anyone give a deffention?

Mario is RATED E so Mario is for EVERYONE not just little kids.

Mario is targeted at kids, you know. Yes the games are good and a load of fun, but kids are their target audiance.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Yeah that, but I'm talking about games for the Wii. They are either adversited poorly or received none at all. Excitebots: Trick Racing, my favorite racing game this generation, only sold 140,000 copies, a failure that can be completely blamed on Nintendo.

Nintendo Channel does the ads now, lol. There was some stuff for Excitebots.

 

[SuperBowser]

You know, it's kind of annoying dissect my post into half lines and reply to each one individually. I added tennis separately because I knew you would equate sports titles to madden and ignore the rest.

I didn't assume anything. I am using your definition of an expansion pack on FPS games (i said most, not all), jRPG, adventure games and sports games to show that it is too simple. It's a shame you haven't played Phoneix Wright because I would say it falls perfectly under your definition of an expansion pack, but most people who follow the series would probably get offended if you went into their topic and called the game as such. I asked you because I'm interested to see where you draw the line. Adventure games and jRPGS are particularly known for not changing much. Why aren't these expansion packs in your definition?

New levels and new gameplay mechanics are what makes mario, mario. That is why people buy it. That is what makes it a sequel - the most important essence of the game will be new.

The same way people buy the new Phoenix Wright for the new storylines. They don't care that the gameplay has not particularly changed (arguably less changed than the new mario will be). It's a new game because the most fundamental and important part of it is still new.


I'm not arguing whether or not nintendo are being lazy in making mario galaxy 2. I just meant to say it's irrelevant to call a mario game an expansion pack because the graphics didn't get an (arguably unnecessary) upgrade.

 

[CaptainOlimar123]

Mario is targeted at kids, you know. Yes the games are good and a load of fun, but kids are their target audiance.

*facepalm*

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo Channel does the ads now, lol. There was some stuff for Excitebots.

I know that, but I was talking about television ads.

And beside, that's not really a good arguement becuase less then 40% of Wii owners actually have their Wii's online, which is patethic.

 

[finalark]

You know, it's kind of annoying dissect my post into half lines and reply to each one individually.

Get used to it, it helps me think better.

I added tennis separately because I knew you would equate sports titles to madden and ignore the rest.

But I didn't, did I?

I didn't assume anything. I am using your definition of an expansion pack on FPS games (i said most, not all), jRPG, adventure games and sports games to show that it is too simple.

Sorry, I missed the "most" part. And what I'm saying about expantion pack applies to sequels, not entire genres. And saying that sequels to adventure games and JRPGs don't change much is well... based off of what? Final Fantasy and Myst?

It's a shame you haven't played Phoneix Wright because I would say it falls perfectly under your definition of an expansion pack, but most people who follow the series would probably get offended if you went into their topic and called the game as such. I asked you because I'm interested to see where you draw the line. Adventure games and jRPGS are particularly known for not changing much. Why aren't these expansion packs in your definition?

... you got me there. But saying that JRPGs and adventure games don't change much is... foolish.

New levels and new gameplay mechanics are what makes mario, mario. That is why people buy it. That is what makes it a sequel - the most important essence of the game will be new.

No, Fluud in SMS was a gameplay machanic. It made playing SMS very different from playing SM64. It's probably way to early for me to say this, but I'm not exactly sure that Yoshi is going to make playing Mario Galaxy 2 very differant from Mario Galaxy 1. But we'll see.

The same way people buy the new Phoenix Wright for the new storylines. They don't care that the gameplay has not particularly changed (arguably less changed than the new mario will be). It's a new game because the most fundamental and important part of it is still new.

You make a good point here, and I must say that I do agree. Although I find that it's lazy on Nintendo's behalf to simply take Mario Galaxy and throw in some new levels and gimicks and call it a day. Who knows? I might be supprised.

*facepalm*

... sarcasim doesn't traslate well through text? I give up....

 

[SkylerOcon]

Sequel: Builds off of the gameplay set up by the last game in the series by keeping the same basic idea but altering or adding several mechanics so that way you're not playing the same game that you did last time.

Expantion pack: Game Play is exactly the same, only the expantion pack adds in more content to the game.

I agree with you here, but SMG2 really does look like it is going to build off of Galaxy 1 by adding in more mechanics and altering a few. Yoshi is already a major part of the game, and the Yoshi mechanics alone change the game up a lot. I'm not sure how prevelant the drill will be, but that looks like it's going to change stuff up a bit too. I think you should read the Kotaku article about Yoshi and the drill powerup.

http://kotaku.com/5479419/super-mario-galaxy-2-yoshis-backand-he-brought-a-drill

I was in your camp, but this article changed how I saw things. I think Nintendo really is trying to change Galaxy 2 enough from one to warrant a sequel.

Adding in Yoshi or a drill thingy is not changing or improving the gameplay mechanics. Sure, they added in new levels but that's what expantion packs are for. And I laugh at how a kid's game is suddenly considered a "hardcore" game.

A hardcore game is a game that is, at least in some capacity, designed to appeal to game hobbyists. Mario definitely appeals to game hobbyists because it's not only one of the few platforming franchises left, but one of the best gaming franchises period. Mario is more hardcore than most games will ever be.

 

[finalark]

I agree with you here, but SMG2 really does look like it is going to build off of Galaxy 1 by adding in more mechanics and altering a few. Yoshi is already a major part of the game, and the Yoshi mechanics alone change the game up a lot. I'm not sure how prevelant the drill will be, but that looks like it's going to change stuff up a bit too. I think you should read the Kotaku article about Yoshi and the drill powerup.

http://kotaku.com/5479419/super-mario-galaxy-2-yoshis-backand-he-brought-a-drill

I was in your camp, but this article changed how I saw things. I think Nintendo really is trying to change Galaxy 2 enough from one to warrant a sequel.

... hey, SuperBowser.... sorry.

A hardcore game is a game that is, at least in some capacity, designed to appeal to game hobbyists. Mario definitely appeals to game hobbyists because it's not only one of the few platforming franchises left, but one of the best gaming franchises period. Mario is more hardcore than most games will ever be.

I was more poking fun at the modern deffenition of a "hardcore" gamer. But seriously, Mario is pretty hardcore in his own right.

 

[John102]

After 120+ posts, I'm actually surprised nobody brought up adversitement of Wii and DS products.

Nintendo's adversitement campaign is not the best that I've seen. With the Game Boy Advance, Nintendo Gamecube, and the early days of the Wii and DS, adversitement were frequent and pouring. However, in recent years, they have slowed to a trickle. The only game I can recall this year getting any adversitements on TV was Tatsunko Vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars.

The commercials from the NES era when Nintendo was near its prime were the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFinopAcE4

Anyway, on a more serious note, the commercial that I noticed most from Nintendo was that one pokemon commercial when Diamond and Pearl came out that showed the people of the world connecting through wifi or whatever, I remember that one played like all the time, but you're right, recently I haven't seen many Nintendo commercials.

 

[urdailywater]

Mario is targeted at kids, you know. Yes the games are good and a load of fun, but kids are their target audiance.

I just saw this, and no I didn't really bother reading anything else so ignore me if I sound stupid.

Mario is really targeted towards everyone (just like the rating says). I know it appears like Mario is just a kids game, but Shigeru is still trying to keep his old fans into the games at the same time, especially with the references to past games and what-not. He knows kids will buy the games, but at the same time he's constantly trying to remind us old fans of the past and give us incentive on buying the games. Again there's plenty of evidence that goes against this but it's the same vice versa.

However, if you were talking about Pokemon or something along those lines, it would be completely different. Just because it has an E rating doesn't mean it's always mainly targeted at kids, though. This has and never will be true in the gaming industry.

 

[SuperBowser]

Naa, it's fine

If people never disagreed and failed to talk things out, no one would learn a thing.

Mario Galaxy 2 will probably be amazing to the people who enjoyed 1. Personally, I don't plan to get it but I can understand why others want it. Nintendo still promises to give it an orchestrated soundtrack, ingenious level design and new ideas (and the graphics will probably get a small upgrade). Those are the most important aspects of mario, no?

 

[Deleted member]

Get used to it, it helps me think better.

There is another way. You can put your response inside your quote. That makes things easier for me.

 

[SuperBowser]

^For some reason I read that as ''you can put your hands inside your pants.''

???

I'm going to sleep.

 

[finalark]

I just saw this, and no I didn't really bother reading anything else so ignore me if I sound stupid.

Na, that was just me being stupid.

Naa, it's fine

If people never disagreed and failed to talk things out, no one would learn a thing.

Mario Galaxy 2 will probably be amazing to the people who enjoyed 1. Personally, I don't plan to get it but I can understand why others want it. Nintendo still promises to give it an orchestrated soundtrack, ingenious level design and new ideas (and the graphics will probably get a small upgrade). Those are the most important aspects of mario, no?

I might pick up Galaxy 2, seeing how I don't own the first one (barrowed it from a friend). And yeah, you pretty much listed off the most important aspects. I'll probably end up liking it, anyway.

 

[Firus]

There is another way. You can put your response inside your quote. That makes things easier for me.

When people put their responses in quotes that makes it HARDER because you have to copy-paste from their post instead of just hitting "quote".

I'm not really sure what's so bad about dividing into lines...it's how I've always replied to people.

 

[SuperBowser]

Dunno, maybe it's just personal preference. I don't like looking at big walls of quote/replies.

If I wanted every line in a paragraph to be separated and responded to differently, I'd have done that myself. Otherwise I feel like parts of my post are being taken out of context (not to say you did this, finalark!). I mean, that's what a paragraph is for - to get across one point.

 

[Firus]

Well, yes, but if you make multiple points in one paragraph it can be difficult to respond to each idea in the paragraph and you end up lumping multiple different arguments into one place, which can result in more confusion.

But this is off-topic, so I'll drop it now.