Smashers are Too Good @ MvC3

[Fuzzyness]

im gonna enter one or two tournaments next weeks and I'll try to get vids

I dont play an amazingly interesting style, its just effective (playing gay to win) stuff like instead overhead setups

 

[Zankoku]

Laijin - Melee shares much in common with 3S, MvC2, and GG in that they are all relatively old games that are composed primarily of longtime players that are, for the most part, only still in it for the love of the game, and thus the bar set for the average level is much higher than that of newer fighters. This doesn't always have everything to do with complexity, but there is definitely a much larger skill gap to cross for older generation games that still see play.

Blank - I never see you online : ( play me in IaMP already

 

[choknater]

after many years of playing fighters

marvel 2 has been the most challenging to me, followed by melee and melty

i have not played GG competitively but i hear it is the most difficult

marvel 3 is basically a marvel 2 except a little easier with wayyyyy more damage

 

[Dark Sonic]

1. wtf thats stupid, why does charge shot leave you in stun for that long...

lvl3 Charge shot will always leave them in stun until they reach the ground and it will always be a hard landing (something that you can OTG after), regardless of how high they were hit by the charge shot or how stale the damage/hitstun of the combo is.

So launcher, mm, chargeshot->qcbL hard tag should work with a lot of teams (any team that has a quick OTG).

It also means that landing a lvl3 charge shot from any height should lead into his full BnB combo (though less damage because charge shot is brutal when it comes to damage staling, but that's okay because DHC glitch solves that.)

 

[Minato]

I've been trying to stay away from this thread when it started, but I feel like replying to some of the stuff being said here.
I don't really have a "side" that I'm on (between Smash and traditional fighters) since I enjoy both games.

FG Players cannot play smash(melee in this case, cause its the game im familiar with). The technical level that is required to play melee is COMPLETELY different and than the technical level that is required to play normal FGs. Smash players can easily get into FGs and be successful at them because when compared to smash, there is a lot less to worry about. In smash you're constantly worrying about like 10 different things at once and situations change extremely frequently from those 10 different situations(What platform am I on? Is he close to the edge? Is he below me? Is he across the stage shooting stuff? Oh crap im edge guarding how is he gonna approach the ledge? Oh crap I'm getting edge guarded how should I come back? Okay cool im on the ledge how should I get back on the stage out of my like 10 different options to do so? etc etc). In FGs, GENERALLY the only things you have to worry about in terms of positioning are: How far away is he, am I by a corner? is he by the corner? Is he coming from the air? How should I block? how should I approach. And quite frankly, those situations are quite easier to think about considering how fewer options your opponent has to act.

I see Smashers bring up this point a lot when comparing Smash to traditional fighters. And yes, I do agree that the amount of options in Melee gives me a ton of problems, but I don't think the amount in limited options you have in traditional fighters takes anything away either. I think it's equally as scary when you have a limited amount of options where the opponent has a better chance to shut you down on what you're going to do next. Positioning in Smash (platforms, edge, offstage) isn't exactly more difficult than situations like being in a corner, on wakeup, in the air, and etc. Sure they're different, but I think both are pretty difficult relative to their own games.

In Smash, there's a lot options to think about, but there's also a lot of room for error on countering/guessing the opponent's choice wrong.
In a game like SF, they know what you want to do, so it's true that there's less to think about. I just think that's also scary in its own right since both players can easily stop the opponent due to them knowing the limited options available to them.

Both games have different mindgames and level of execution, but both are on equal and similar level (depending on the game), imo.

Also unlike smash, in FGs combos are basically guaranteed after the first hit confirm. As long as you don't drop it, you have gauranteed damage. Your opponent has zero options usually for escape unlike smash so theres no need to think about DIs and super fast techs(and in this case, techs are usually pretty damn easy to see from a mile away). There are some exceptions in FGs(3rd Strike, GG, MvC2) where those may vary and there might be more to worry about but GENERALLY in a game as easy as MvC3, there really isn't much going on.

The way I kind of see DI in Smash is like failing to block a reset in other fighters. It's something that could've been avoided but wasn't.
As for the guaranteed damage from hit confirms, I consider combos in traditional fighters equal to regular moves in Smash.

Laijin - Melee shares much in common with 3S, MvC2, and GG in that they are all relatively old games that are composed primarily of longtime players that are, for the most part, only still in it for the love of the game, and thus the bar set for the average level is much higher than that of newer fighters. This doesn't always have everything to do with complexity, but there is definitely a much larger skill gap to cross for older generation games that still see play.

Pretty much this.

For whatever reason, FG players can play Smash easily, but by in large-- Smashers cannot play other fighters effectively.

I don't agree with this, actually. I think it's the same both ways, it's just there aren't that many people that like both games equally enough that they'll put in the same amount of effort.

For the record, I think Magneto is better than Doom. ^.^

I'm surprised that anyone would argue otherwise, to be honest.

As for the title, I'm not a big fan of it either. It reminds me of that one video posted in the Melee thread about boasting execution and mind games. It just doesn't sit well with other FG communities. The biggest reason why other communities don't like Smashers is mainly because Smashers try to boast and say they're like a different breed of people. Arguing that their game is better and because their game makes them godlike at other games since some see 2D fighters as something really simple. I don't think Smashers should take that approach is all I'm saying.

TL;DR Apples and oranges.

 

[choknater]

falcomist is just too good.

 

[da K.I.D.]

well I only took the stand I did in the name of the thread because from my personal experience, ive always respected people who play street fighter or kof or sc or Cvs or tekken or whatever. and most smashers i know do the same. but then i go to something like mlg last year. where theres a 250 man bracket, right next to a 60 man bracket for tekken. and i have to listen to guys wondering how smash can pull such a big crowd when its 'not even a real fighting game'

or i go to the local school to play, and im looked down on by all the people who play street fighter. because i 'play a bad/cruddy/not real game' when ive done nothing but give them props and try to be nice. with the occasional banter and trash talk of course. but every time i see people bagging on smash, its always completely unwarrented and unfounded hate for no other reason than people not being able to understand how you can have a quality fighting game that doesnt have a life bar. and its always started by people from other FGs. Never us.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Ignorance what can you say.

 

[GimR]

yo, I'm amazing at MK9, get at me

 

[Gamegenie222]

you talking to me GIMR?

 

[choknater]

its ok man

gotta ignore haters and be successful at what u do

 

[GimR]

you talking to me GIMR?

no, lol. Just a general asinine statement

 

[choknater]

i think gamegenie was just calling ur request to get "got at"

 

[DtJ Composer]

I mean I'm kinda reluctant to believe that since you play any super smash brothers game because they're all party games.

mmmmm




Also I skimmed and saw someone say that you could use Photon Array in the DHC glitch? How? :x

 

[da K.I.D.]

you definitely read incorrectly in your skimming.

its probably one of the safest supers to dHC into or out of tho.

 

[_Dice]

you definitely read incorrectly in your skimming.

its probably one of the safest supers to dHC into or out of tho.

Uh.... okay lol if you say so. Photon array is unsafe on hit vs many characters and definitely unsafe on block.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Doom can also make use of the DHC glitch via photon array, this means you can TAC from any Doom combo into someone who can start the DHC glitch then go back into Doom for the finisher.

This.


It doesn't sound like it works, or I'm not getting it, and that's why I was curious about it.

 

[Zucco]

This.


It doesn't sound like it works, or I'm not getting it, and that's why I was curious about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftcQgrlXXVc&feature=player_embedded

first combo. its not very practical.

 

[da K.I.D.]

@ dice. based on what i know about the game, im going to have to strongly disagree with you. can you show me any proof of punishing photon array reliably? and i dont just mean, 'oh i blocked a super at point blank range in the corner' cause almost half the supers in the game that are safe, become unsafe in that circumstance

@ composer,
I didnt see that before. so my bad, but its possible, if techinically the finger laser dont count as doom actually hitting the opponent but as doom summoning lasers to attack you, the way Hyper sent Force works. I dont think thats the case tho.

 

[Dark Sonic]

meh, being able to START the DHC glitch seems much more appealing in my opinion (while you do need someone to DHC glitch into, that list of characters is a lot larger than the list of characters who can start it).

Not to mention that the video shown seems to require Magneto to start the DHC glitch anyway. I don't know any other character that can start the DHC glitch from high enough for photon array to miss like that.

edit: nvmind. It looks like She-Hulk can set it up for him and Jill could probably do it too.

 

[_Dice]

@ dice. based on what i know about the game, im going to have to strongly disagree with you. can you show me any proof of punishing photon array reliably? and i dont just mean, 'oh i blocked a super at point blank range in the corner' cause almost half the supers in the game that are safe, become unsafe in that circumstance

@ composer,
I didnt see that before. so my bad, but its possible, if techinically the finger laser dont count as doom actually hitting the opponent but as doom summoning lasers to attack you, the way Hyper sent Force works. I dont think thats the case tho.

One of the early WNF's had james chen and Justin wong talking about it, and justin wong said that super was one of the worst in the game because it was punishment on hit, and block.

though that was the air version i assumed the ground version (having the same frame data) would be the same.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Ah, so it's only if they're in the air like that, alright.
Yeah that's not all that applicable.


Also ground Photon Array is pretty bad.
Air one you can at least land on people.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Yo Laijin I just saw you on Xanadu stream.

Can I MM you for the plane ticket over there?

 

[Laijin]

Yo Laijin I just saw you on Xanadu stream.

Can I MM you for the plane ticket over there?

LOL.
We're still doing the MM. Come down here sometime :D

 

[DtJ Composer]

So I dunno if anyone is interested (or if I'm the last person who found out?) but turns out you can DHC glitch from Storm into Taskmaster.

It's just weird.

 

[Laijin]

Yea you're like the last person to find that out lol.


:: DHC from ::

- Combo into any of these (at least 1 physical hit before the Super connects) -

Deadpool: Cuttin' Time (QCB+PP) (cancel before final hit)
Spencer: Bionic Maneuvers (QCF+PP) (cancel any hit)
Storm: Elemental Rage (DP+PP) (cancel before final hit)
X-23: Weapon X Prime (DP+PP) (cancel second to last or final hit)
Thor: Mighty Punish (HCB+PP)
M.O.D.O.K: Killer Ilumination (DP+PP)
She-Hulk: Taking Out The Trash (DP+PP)


:: or Hyper then DHC After ::

Opponent caught in Magneto Hyper Grav
Opponent hit by Dante QCF+H~QCF+H
Opponent thrown by any Amaterasu throw (air is easiest)
Opponent countered by Amaterasu counter


:: DHC to ::

- Non Physical Hit DHC's -

Amaterasu: Veil of Mist (QCB+PP)
Arthur: Golden Armor (QCB+PP)
Dante: Devil Trigger (QCB+PP)
Deadpool: WHIFFED Cuttin' Time (QCB+PP)
Felicia: Kitty Helper (DP+PP)
Hsien-Ko: Rimoukon (DP+PP)
Hsien-Ko: Chireitou (QCF+PP)
Morrigan: Astral Vision (dd+PP)
Phoenix: Healing Field (QCB+PP)
Sentinel: Hyper Sentinel Force (QCB+PP)
She-Hulk: Road Rage (HCB+PP - Level 3)
Taskmaster: Aegis Counter (QCB+PP)
Thor: Mighty Punish (HCB+PP)
Trish: Round Harvest (QCB+PP)
V.Joe: Viewtiful God Hand (QCB+PP)
Wesker: Rhino Charge (QCB+PP) (self OTG with df+H, c.M...)
Wolverine: Berserker Charge (dd+PP)
X-23: Silent Kill (QCB+PP - Level 3)
Zero: Sougenmu (QCB+PP)

 

[DtJ Composer]

Well I was aware that it worked in theory, but Secret Move lasts too long to combo from an OTG Elemental Rage, so I wasn't sure.

 

[da K.I.D.]

you can also start the DHC glitch from trons servbot capture gun, and Viewtiful Joes slow.

 

[choknater]

HMMMM!!!

i wanna learn some dhc tricks then, from x-23 to hsien ko's gold armor!

 

[Zucco]

Ammy gets the reset off a THROW? ******************** that character.

 

[choknater]

yah i dont enjoy the way she plays haha

 

[Dark Sonic]

You can also hyper->DHC after Dante's crazy dance (press S during qcbL, qcbM, or qcbH). Just activate Devil Trigger after the crazy dance, but before they hit the ground (it doesn't cancel directly, so the timing may require a bit of practice)


Initiating crazy dance itself takes practice because it's such a short timing window, but it's overall a better DHC option imo, since really you can just tack it on to the end of Dante's bnb. Though, bold canceling into qcfH qcfH is another option (equally difficult imo, because of the forward input from 6H carrying into your bold canceled special unless you reset your stick to neutral after inputting bold move).

 

[Minato]

Ammy gets the reset off a THROW? ******************** that character.

Getting a reset off of a throw isn't great. It's not like you can combo into a throw.

 

[da K.I.D.]

im not sure you understand how good throws are in marvel.

imagine if DDDs grab was frame one, and he could do it in the air any time he wanted. thats almost everybody in marvel.

the fact that you dont combo into it is wat makes it amazing, because you can always block people trying to combo you, but you cant really block throws.

 

[Druggedfox]

^Yeah, but ammy gets grab like *crazy* since she's pretty much using heavy the entire time anyway. Also because of her hitbox, she pretty much tends to win battles between two people trying to grab for whatever reason >_>

 

[Minato]

I personally don't find it worth it to spend 2 meters just for that, IMO, but I guess it is another good way to abuse Ammy's throws.
Her being able to do it off of an air throw is nice. Sure beats Sent's DHC starter from a command grab.

 

[choknater]

her long and slender body makes other characters to attracted to her bestial physique, so they choose to get grabbed

 

[Druggedfox]

her long and slender body makes other characters to attracted to her bestial physique, so they choose to get grabbed

That might as well be the explanation, honestly >_>

 

[choknater]

dat dog.... dat dog.

 

[Zucco]

Getting a reset off of a throw isn't great. It's not like you can combo into a throw.

yes, but since throws scale your moves to death, now you can actually do amazing damage off of something as good as her throw(which has insane range and air throws are broken in general)

edit: should have read the posts above.