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Smash Wii U Gets a "Call To Arms"

SleezyWeezel

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
25
3DS FC
0404-7056-2030
Yeah, I just really find it stale in the Smash community how we argue about the same thing. For months now i've been arguing that Smash 4 is a terrible game but i just figured like, why should i care so much about Smash 4 that i'd keep on trashing it? I just decided to mostly keep to myself and continue playing Melee and PM and just quit playing Smash 4. The reason why i trashed it so much was because i continued to play it and give it a chance but with bad results. So i just decided to quit and don't really care anymore.
 

Streetwize

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
129
Location
Terrytown, Louisiana
I find it hilarious that people quote the first negative post they see instead of reading through to understand the discussion that has went down since. Context really helps, y'know?
 

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,965
Location
St. Louis, MO
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Delzethin
There're some good points here. Smash 4 may be young, but we're at a point where we can start pulling our weight. I don't know about everyone here, but I'm sick and tired of Melee's more zealous fans attacking anyone that isn't them. We need a way to rally, to put ourselves out there on equal footing and show the rest of the gaming community that no, Melee isn't the standard for Smash games (and wasn't meant to be), that we're just as important, and that anyone who tries to collectively kick us down are the bad guys.

And that anyone who respectfully disagrees is cool just like us.

I like the idea of a podcast in the line of MioM. It'd be another means to grow and stay up to date on news. Maybe a name like 4ward...or maybe that's kind of cheesy. Hm...

But I think the most important thing right now is to reach out, find people who'd want to be part of the community, and show them why we enjoy Smash 4 so much. Emphasize its strong points, especially the ones Melee doesn't have. Show how much more balanced the roster is in comparison, how there were 15 different characters used among the Top 16 at Apex. Show them a metagame that has new characters rise to prominence almost every week, that has everyone going "Wait...that character is good?" Show them the sheer variety that said characters have to offer, and how much more depth that custom specials add. Show them how much the mental game flourishes when attack strings are freeform, and understanding your options and mixups and matchups becomes that much more important.

We may not have the long (for a game) history, the super-technical playstyle, or the gravitas of Melee...but we can show how we don't need it to be worth being a part of.
 

Gionni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
134
Location
Chiusi, Italy
I like how this kinda turned into a melee vs smash 4 aurgument, people calm down, if you don't like or care for a game it's ok, but don't go around spreading hate please
 

DeDeDe90

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
to me personally, meele is the better game. its just because i have more fun playing it. It is faster and WAY more technical, the greatest thing ever is to practize some tech all night long and slowly being able to imply it into your regular game while being under pressure. That is something smash 4 is lacking imo.

besides that, i dont get why ppl who try to attak melee always bash on wavedashing?!
Its not like if you wavedash you win every game. its just a slide back or forth nothing more, in melee there are so many techniques more relevant then wavedashing and thats why i love the game. still..

p.s. im no smash 4 hater i have 2k games online or so and the easy netplay is something i really like about smash 4 that melee does not have.
(forgive me for my language im not a native speaker :O)
 
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RascalTheCharizard

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
987
CONGRATULATIONS
you have become a Smash 4 elitist, the Melee elitist's equally toxic counterpart.
Honestly this is the real problem. It's not that the Smash 4 community isn't trying hard enough to make a strong scene or make our game look more appealing, it's that we're trying too hard. No need to act like victims and be all "respect us and our game!" because that what grinds the gears of most people. The vocal minority "Melee elitists" will always exist, but they should and can be ignored. Once we start pissing off more than just them, maybe we should have a look in the mirror.

There's nothing wrong with indifference. This applies to both sides.
 
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BlurB

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
78
Location
Provo, UT
At this early state of the game - I hope we continue to experiment with the games rules. Yes it is a little cumbersome for players to keep fluctuating with no customs/with customs, etc. But I think it's important we try as many types of matches we can to find a nice sweet spot.

When I'm making a storyboard, I try showing a scene from many different camera angles to find a good storytelling angle. I feel we need to approach smash 4 matches with many different stock/time/custom combinations to find a good competitive balance.
 

PlateProp

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
4,149
Location
San Antonio
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3DS FC
3823-8710-2486
If only I knew D1's smashboards acc so I could ask him about oneunit right now
 

Chzrm3

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
625
3DS FC
3926-5442-3703
to me personally, melee is the better game. its just because i have more fun playing it. It is faster and WAY more technical, the greatest thing ever is to practize some tech all night long and slowly being able to imply it into your regular game while being under pressure. That is something smash 4 is lacking imo.

besides that, i dont get why ppl who try to attak melee always bash on wavedashing?!
Its not like if you wavedash you win every game. its just a slide back or forth nothing more, in melee there are so many techniques more relevant then wavedashing and thats why i love the game. still..

p.s. im no smash 4 hater i have 2k games online or so and the easy netplay is something i really like about smash 4 that melee does not have.
(forgive me for my language im not a native speaker :O)
As for the wavedash thing, I think it's really because they don't understand melee. They probably played it when it was new but didn't keep up with the people who were getting really good really fast, and as their head started to slip underwater, they needed something to point at so they can say "This is why I'm losing!"

So they pointed at wavedashing.

It's never made any sense to me either, so I've got to assume it's just because they don't understand what they're talking about.

I honestly feel like anyone who takes the time to sink their teeth into Melee/PM will realize there's so much more going on in those games that it's not even close. When I see arguments like this saying "give smash 4 a chance!", I just kinda sigh and shake my head.

I never had to give Melee or PM an extended, several months long 'chance' of playing it and not really enjoying it. The moment I played Melee I was in love - same with PM. If a video game needs this long to prove itself, it's not worth playing. Especially when such vastly superior alternatives already exist. : >
 

Phoenix502

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
706
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Chipley, FL
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not sure how the conversation shifts, and I don't care... there was one point that stuck out to me the most in that essay, and I think it's hard to argue. elitist, toxic, purist, or whatever Melee fans are proud of Melee and have every right to be proud of something they like.

I've grown into one of those guys who has little problem dismissing derogatory trash thrown my way when it comes to what's better and worse. I'll stand my ground and say I'm glad Smash 4 is the way it is. it's a middle ground for this newbie generation of gamers to get into, and if they want something faster and technical, I'm not stopping them from moving to Melee or PM.

but the thing I see here is that Melee and PM are best played with others, when playing by yourself just grows dull. say what you want about Amiibos for Smash 4, but having an AI that adjusts itself to be able to beat you and others is a damn good thing. for Project M, the only way the Ai's have gotten so much better is because of the hard work of one @KingClubber , if there was an AI program similar to Amiibos for past Smash games, even newbies could manage to gain steam pretty quickly..

I live in a location where finding opponents nearby is unlikely and maintaining practice is inconsistent, so I'll hold my little plastic figures high and stick with Smash 4... though I am fine with Playing PM and Melee now and then for the occasional change of pace.
 

| Kailex |

I smell like salty coins and milk
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Guys please stop supporting melee and pm so much, its all exploits and no real gameplay; play braindead and autocombo for days. Smash 4 and brawl rewards patience and thinking properly, so we need to help the community grow. You melee/pm kids just wavedash and l-cancel all the time, you dont think about it anymore, complete muscle memory. Mango isnt really good, let me see him get top in smash4. Whats so fun in a game with little viable characters/stages? It just shows that melee kids dont understand that pm is a more balanced version with more good stages/characters; both games are still bad though.
 

GreenFlame

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
462
3DS FC
0275-7873-0005
not sure how the conversation shifts, and I don't care... there was one point that stuck out to me the most in that essay, and I think it's hard to argue. elitist, toxic, purist, or whatever Melee fans are proud of Melee and have every right to be proud of something they like.

I've grown into one of those guys who has little problem dismissing derogatory trash thrown my way when it comes to what's better and worse. I'll stand my ground and say I'm glad Smash 4 is the way it is. it's a middle ground for this newbie generation of gamers to get into, and if they want something faster and technical, I'm not stopping them from moving to Melee or PM.

but the thing I see here is that Melee and PM are best played with others, when playing by yourself just grows dull. say what you want about Amiibos for Smash 4, but having an AI that adjusts itself to be able to beat you and others is a damn good thing. for Project M, the only way the Ai's have gotten so much better is because of the hard work of one @KingClubber , if there was an AI program similar to Amiibos for past Smash games, even newbies could manage to gain steam pretty quickly..

I live in a location where finding opponents nearby is unlikely and maintaining practice is inconsistent, so I'll hold my little plastic figures high and stick with Smash 4... though I am fine with Playing PM and Melee now and then for the occasional change of pace.
I'm pretty sure amiibo only change the percentage they use moves based on how often you use moves. They don't really "adapt to how you play". Just saying.
 
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ChikoLad

Purple Boi
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
I never had to give Melee or PM an extended, several months long 'chance' of playing it and not really enjoying it. The moment I played Melee I was in love - same with PM. If a video game needs this long to prove itself, it's not worth playing. Especially when such vastly superior alternatives already exist. : >
You go into playing competitive Melee now, with full knowledge of what ATs are in the game and who is the best character, and all of that. This was not the case back when it first came out.

Melee was like Smash 4 at one point, and didn't progress nearly as quickly as Smash 4 as a competitive game. Fair enough if you don't enjoy it personally, but your argument of "taking time to develop the meta = bad game" is hypocritical, flimsy, and ignorant at best.
 

Phoenix502

Smash Ace
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I'm pretty sure amiibo only change the percentage they use moves based on how often you use moves. They don't really "adapt to how you play". Just saying.
it's still far and beyond the game's default CPUs, LV9 AI know and can Powershield quite a bit, but Amiibos by comparison turn it into an art form. By that point whenever I intend to win matches against them it forces me to work on my punishment strategy.
 

~Burst~

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
332
Why are people trying to force others to play another game?
Just because they play melee doesn't mean they need to play smash 4.
Just as I don't want people trying to force me to play PM we shouldn't be doing the same thing, what is this?
Don't sit here and try to take another player base and install it into the game you want to play. This coming from a smash 4 player.
If you want to ask people to play smash 4 and build a community the way it should be, cool but don't try and browbeat people into playing smash 4.
I guarantee the same people doing this were on the other side of the fence when brawl was here and melee/PM players were trying to convert brawl players to play melee/PM instead. Stop.
 

Mycoid

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
1
Location
Dinwiddie, Virginia
HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.
i agree PM is struggling but i also feel as if you can learn melee you can excel in any smash game. The tech skill needed to play melee is by a far margin than any other smash. which is why i still find it enjoyable to watch.
 

| Kailex |

I smell like salty coins and milk
Joined
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The pointless arguing. It's the same bull**** over and over and they never learn ****
Why is it pountless? Melee/pm players need to understand that sm4sh should take the spotlight, those games dont have a future ahead of them, but nintendo is completely willing to support smash 4 in any way possible.
 

XAQuiri!

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Terre Haute, Indiana
3DS FC
1203-9256-6235
You untalented Brawlbaby hacks need to stop referring to wavedashing as "a glitch" or "wave-cheating." It was intentionally left in the game. If you play Melee, you need to know how to do it.

Just a PS, Smash 4 has become my main Smash game since the 3DS release and moreso since hitting Wii U. But I acknowledge that Melee is the superior competitive game by a landslide, at least at the moment. People tried for years to Brawl a competitive game and failed miserably. Smash 4 still has a chance so let's give it time.
 

Chzrm3

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
625
3DS FC
3926-5442-3703
You go into playing competitive Melee now, with full knowledge of what ATs are in the game and who is the best character, and all of that. This was not the case back when it first came out.

Melee was like Smash 4 at one point, and didn't progress nearly as quickly as Smash 4 as a competitive game. Fair enough if you don't enjoy it personally, but your argument of "taking time to develop the meta = bad game" is hypocritical, flimsy, and ignorant at best.
Haha, what? I got Melee the week it came out. I was in 8th grade and played it obsessively all night with my friends - we didn't go to bed until we passed out from exhaustion at some point that next afternoon. I couldn't stop playing it - for months, it was all I'd play after school. As the years went on, my best friend and I became known as the best smashers in our high school. We were the ones that actually taught people at our game club L-cancelling, WDing, and that stuff, as those techs were discovered.

Heck, I remember holding L-cancelling practice sessions during game club where we'd just be on final destination as characters with really obvious L-cancels, like Gdorf and DK, working on timing.

I'm not trying to say I'm some amazing player - I got a massive dose of humble pie when I got into the NYC melee scene. But I'm not new to Melee, at all. I was playing the game all through the development of its meta, but I also fell in love with it from the very first moment I touched it.

Not the same with Smash 4.
 

| Kailex |

I smell like salty coins and milk
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Pm is just a better melee that melee kids dont want to play; shows how naive and dumb they are. And wavedashing/l-canceling is a huge exploit, im glad it got removed.
 

ChikoLad

Purple Boi
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
I'm pretty sure amiibo only change the percentage they use moves based on how often you use moves. They don't really "adapt to how you play". Just saying.
This is untrue. While the Amiibos do get stronger stats at higher levels, they are still extremely intelligent and adaptable for the most part, more so than the average player.
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
1,399
My two cents: SmashU needs more HOO HAH.

Why? It's stupid and pointless, obnoxious as hell, and it emphasizes a relatively boring and simple combo over all of the game's depth and strategy. What's the big deal?

Well, go back and watch the Wombo Combo. Don't bother watching what's happening in the game; just listen to what people are saying. It's ****ing insipid. I mean, what the hell is even the relationship between anything that's said? "My **** hurts!"? What are we? 13? Wombo Combo is a really friggin' stupid thing, and then when you watch the combo without audio, it's hard to tell what people are even getting all atwitter about. It's a pretty standard grab-lock team combo. It's not particularly difficult, up until the reaction knee at the end.

But that the Wombo Combo is a watershed moment for Melee is not even a matter up for debate at this point. It showed the world not what Melee was at its most sublime, but what it meant to the people who loved it. It makes them giddy, it makes them incoherent and bug-eyed, even for the little things. Three months later, the first RoM was meant to be a last hurrah for a dead game, but that's when it became apparent that people were still paying attention. But it wasn't because the game was good, it was because it was clear there was a community that loved this game and embraced it, flaws and all (regardless of whether you think Melee's good or not, this statement holds). Wombo Combo was pivotal in establishing that love.

HOO HAH! is a phenomenon. Full disclosure, I am something of a Melee Elitist. I have a pretty strong opinion that, all told, Melee is a better game, and I honestly have a difficult time sitting through most SmashU games. That's not really here nor there. When I watch a Diddy Kong match, watching for the grab so I can shout, "HOO! HAH!" keeps me engaged, and I enjoy the entire match, regardless of how long it takes. Shouting like that, I can feel at least a comprehension of the love a SmashU player should feel for the game. It's through this kind of participatory, unqualified adulation for the game, that people who do not understand the game come to appreciate it. And with that, viewer base will grow, and with a larger viewer base, a larger player base will come.

Max is right. You need to love this game, and show it. If SmashU fails, it won't be because Melee elitists like myself killed it. That gives us waaaaay too much credit (and to tell you the truth, there are many such people who would be all too happy to believe it if that's what you said). What will kill it is if you don't love the game, more importantly if you don't love the parts of the game that are stupid and broken, and if you don't love those parts more than the parts that play as intended. What will kill it is if we can tell you don't love the game. So love it. And convince the world you love it. But above all, in the words of President Snow, "convince me."

And for Celestia's sake if there's a character as broken as Metaknight, just ban him now. (Diddy's not that broken.)
That's actually an interesting point. The whole "stupid fun/hype" of Wombo Combo type stuff is very real. I've seen streams where commentators sound like they're about to have an orgasm because someone could line up a simple DACUS with Fox.

I disagree that Smash needs more of it. Stuff like Wombo Combo and Hoo Hah is cheap. I don't mean "cheap" as in "unfair", I mean "cheap" as in "not worthwhile" or "not valuable". It is a substitute for real excitement and appreciation of high level play. It puts juvenile appeal in the spotlight and repels more mature players and viewers, which is what the smash community desperately needs.

Sure, we can use stuff like Hoo Hah to create artificial engagement, but in doing so, we basically become the pro wrestling of video games - stupid, shallow, loved by immature teenagers, and without the respect of anyone else.

The community can be happy and successful without becoming a worldwide phenomenon. Just enjoy the game - ALL ASPECTS - of the game to your potential to do so. If enough people do that, everyone will find all the players to battle/matches to watch that they desire.
 

ChikoLad

Purple Boi
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
Haha, what? I got Melee the week it came out. I was in 8th grade and played it obsessively all night with my friends - we didn't go to bed until we passed out from exhaustion at some point that next afternoon. I couldn't stop playing it - for months, it was all I'd play after school. As the years went on, my best friend and I became known as the best smashers in our high school. We were the ones that actually taught people at our game club L-cancelling, WDing, and that stuff, as those techs were discovered.

Heck, I remember holding L-cancelling practice sessions during game club where we'd just be on final destination as characters with really obvious L-cancels, like Gdorf and DK, working on timing.

I'm not trying to say I'm some amazing player - I got a massive dose of humble pie when I got into the NYC melee scene. But I'm not new to Melee, at all. I was playing the game all through the development of its meta, but I also fell in love with it from the very first moment I touched it.

Not the same with Smash 4.
It's not the same for you with Smash 4. But it is for a LOT of other people. Thank you for proving your own point wrong, as well as your own bloated sense of self importance. Just because you personally don't enjoy a game immediately, doesn't mean it's objectively inferior.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Fact is, Melee isn't short of flaws. Especially when it comes to the tier list.

If you're a competitive smash fan, why would you want to limit yourself to a 13 year old game that has practically bled all the meta it can? Especially considering we have a brand new Smash with HUGE potential in the competitive scene. New meta, seemingly much more tight tier list (means less fox v fox battles etc), more characters to learn about in general, new mechanics to adapt to (making it anyone's game)... it yearns for the competitive scene.
Opinions. Just cause someone feels differently and thinks differently than you doesn't mean they are limiting themselves. Just cause something is 13 years old doesn't mean it's not better than what currently is out.

And just because Smash is in the title doesn't mean the style of the game is the same and appeals to the same people.
 

Chzrm3

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
625
3DS FC
3926-5442-3703
It's not the same for you with Smash 4. But it is for a LOT of other people. Thank you for proving your own point wrong, as well as your own bloated sense of self importance. Just because you personally don't enjoy a game immediately, doesn't mean it's objectively inferior.
People like you are actually my least favorite thing about Smash 4. I wasn't even talking to you and you're trying to start an argument with me.

You really want people to play Smash 4? Then stop making it so polarizing by being antagonistic all the time.

This was a perfect opportunity for you to share with me what you love about Smash 4, and for me to see things from your eyes and say "Aha, I get it now!" But instead you attacked me. So you and Smash 4 are both dead to me. :p
 

ChikoLad

Purple Boi
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
People like you are actually my least favorite thing about Smash 4. I wasn't even talking to you and you're trying to start an argument with me.

You really want people to play Smash 4? Then stop making it so polarizing by being antagonistic all the time.

This was a perfect opportunity for you to share with me what you love about Smash 4, and for me to see things from your eyes and say "Aha, I get it now!" But instead you attacked me. So you and Smash 4 are both dead to me. :p
I could say the same about you (and I actually really like Melee and PM too).

I'm not concerned with trying to validate my interest in a game to someone with a bloated sense of self-importance, especially when their initial post I responded to pretty much proved they are not willing to listen to reason over the sound of themself anyway.

If pointing out the flaws in your logic and personality classifies as an "attack" to you, then you shouldn't be on the internet.
 

Tino

Smash Hero
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Spartanburg, South Carolina
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Why is it pountless? Melee/pm players need to understand that sm4sh should take the spotlight, those games dont have a future ahead of them, but nintendo is completely willing to support smash 4 in any way possible.
Did you seriously said that? People can play whatever Smash Bros. game they want without anyone telling them what to do, let it be Melee, Brawl, Project M, Sm4sh and even 64. Forcing them to play whatever game other people tells them to play is just pure stupidity.
 

SuperDS64

Smash Apprentice
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People just need to accept that Melee is riddled with glitches and bugs, but that's why we love it. Smash 4 may be slower, but it's more polished and more overall balanced, also being that there is always the possibility of updates if the need/demand for one is great enough. The only thing I miss between Melee and Smash 4 is momentum carrying into jumps (ex: Sacred Combo).
 

StarshipGroove

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
488
Top 8 for Smash 4 at shots fired was fast with tons of characters being played, hype moments and over 5000 spectators
the custom tournament had nearly 4000 spectators on the alternate stream
what is everyone worried about??
Relax, this is not another Brawl situation!
 

Maysoon

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
34
Of all the pointless arguments I've been seeing since joining Smashboards...can we all just kiss and make up?
Hey, you start half the arguments I see when you call all the Melee techs a glitch.

Anyway, I think that all the games are good but for different reasons. I know that Sakurai isn't the best developer and yes he has made choices that were intended to try and kill off smash competitive. Yet we, as a community, rose above it and came back even stronger. What I am trying to say is that no matter what the developer does to try and make the game noncompetitive we can still make it competitive and co-exist with one another.
 

| Kailex |

I smell like salty coins and milk
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Did you seriously said that? People can play whatever Smash Bros. game they want without anyone telling them what to do, let it be Melee, Brawl, Project M, Sm4sh and even 64. Forcing them to play whatever game other people tells them to play is just pure stupidity.
Thank you.
 
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