Smash Wii U Gets a "Call To Arms"

[JustDan]

And thats a prime example of how obnoxious melee die hards can be, if the game lacks one thing present in melee, you demonize it as a terrible game. There are other ways to win, you dont need to rely on stale technique(wavedashing, which is a glitch)

Also you are creating a "Melee vs Smash 4" which is also creating a bad name for smash 4. Just leave melee alone and get on with the game that you prefer.

 

[BlueXenon]

How can the community stand together and stay strong if they don't love and praise their game?

In order for us to love and praise Smash4, we need to overlook the game's flaws. You can say that Smash4 doesn't have nearly as many flaws as Melee and Brawl, but it doesn't have as many positive attributes. On a competitive level, Brawl is a simpler game than Melee, and Smash4 is a simpler game than Brawl. I agree that the Smash4 community can't be strong unless the players love their game, but that itself can be difficult unless game-changing mechanics are discovered.

 

[busken]

Their are some people I will never understand. You can be a fan of your game but why try to be toxic when a respective community is trying to grow? Such people are just mosquitoes that are just obnoxious, harmless, and don't contribute anything.

 

[Elite Smasher]

"In Smash 4 EVERY character is viable!" As the meta evolves, this will become less true. Even games that have competitive play as the main design goal have polarizing characters and tiers.

"I get to decide which games live and die, because they can never co-exist" This is inherently a toxic viewpoint. Even when games like Dota and LoL are created by competing companies, they still co-exist.

Why do you even care about his opinion, Melee elitists don't care about yours, this is an exercise in futility. Sakurai was aware of wave-cheating pre-release btw, it is just an interaction of the physics engine.

Retirement is a form of coexistence! It is a happy & progressive from! :]

 

[Space Stranger]

And people are already being toxic again...never ceases to amaze.

SMASHBOARDS: HOME OF THE ANGRY FANBOYS WHO WHINE AND MOAN OVER EVERYTHING RELATING TO COMPETITIVE SMASH

Am I doing this right?

 

[Lizalfos]

Retirement is a form of coexistence! It is a happy & progressive from! :]

I guarantee you, if you made a concerted effort to shove Melee into the background, as opposed to growing your own game, you would kill Smash 4 at the same time.

 

[BlazingFireOmega]

lol you are quite uninformed. Wavedashing is the animation for a directional airdodge into the ground. The developers intentionally left it in.

Glitch or not, that's not the point. The point is that there are other ways to win other than to overuse a Technique / Skill / Combo / Etc..

 

[BluEG]

Melee has been around for over 13 years because it has depth. These arguments about its meta being stale is ridiculous. 5 years ago you could have said the meta had reached its limit, yet here we are in 2015 with a ****ING YOSHI getting 5th place at the largest tournament of all time.

Melee has shown that it is timeless, with depth comparable to other competitive games like Chess and Soccer. This argument is seriously like saying "HEY GUYS Chess has been around for thousands of years, the meta is stale, lets play something else because its new!" You just do not hear that.


If you want Smash 4 to grow, show that it is timeless, show that it has depth, and show that it has people dedicated to it for reasons beyond "it is new" I'm tired of people comparing Smash 4 to Melee. Melee is a DIFFERENT GAME. Smash 4 needs to shine on its own, without Melee, and Melee will continue to do its thing without Smash 4.

Take what is new and make it shine, not because there is a game that is 'doing it, so why can't we?', but because you love this game with a passion. Set yourselves apart. You will never be Melee, but you can be Smash 4

 

[Elite Smasher]

I guarantee you, if you made a concerted effort to shove Melee into the background, as opposed to growing your own game, you would kill Smash 4 at the same time.

It does not need to be shoved in the background, but rather slowly fade just as the rest have done so.

 

[Jaedrik]

@ KyroChao You really neglect what a hypocrite you are.

I can turn everything you have said around:

you can only watch Diddies and people timing out matches for so long.

No, i think the fact that a sequel of an existing series thats had its chance to be in the spotlight for a damn long time does not need to come back into focus while a new mod is still being learned.

CONGRATULATIONS
you have become a Smash 4 elitist, the Melee elitist's equally toxic counterpart.

lmao get blasted @ KyroChao
Why haven't you responded to this yet?

 

[Lizalfos]

Glitch or not, that's not the point. The point is that there are other ways to win other than to overuse a Technique / Skill / Combo / Etc..

Read Sirlin's playing to win.

Overusing any of the things above, if it is a winning strategy, will be the tool competitors will always go to. In Smash 4 right now, the winning strategy is primarily reactive play, as few characters have safe options for applying pressure to their opponent.

But this is all actually irrelevant to the article, because you can't change Smash 4, just the community and how it grows.
Edit: the article wants you to take action to grow Smash 4, as you can't change how the game plays.

 

[JustDan]

Melee has been around for over 13 years because it has depth. These arguments about its meta being stale is ridiculous. 5 years ago you could have said the meta had reached its limit, yet here we are in 2015 with a ****ING YOSHI getting 5th place at the largest tournament of all time.

Melee has shown that it is timeless, with depth comparable to other competitive games like Chess and Soccer. This argument is seriously like saying "HEY GUYS Chess has been around for thousands of years, the meta is stale, lets play something else because its new!" You just do not hear that.


If you want Smash 4 to grow, show that it is timeless, show that it has depth, and show that it has people dedicated to it for reasons beyond "it is new" I'm tired of people comparing Smash 4 to Melee. Melee is a DIFFERENT GAME. Smash 4 needs to shine on its own, without Melee, and Melee will continue to do its thing without Smash 4.

Take what is new and make it shine, not because there is a game that is 'doing it, so why can't we?', but because you love this game with a passion. Set yourselves apart. You will never be Melee, but you can be Smash 4

This is the most accurate thing on the internet.

 

[Will-O-Wisp]

And thats a prime example of how obnoxious melee die hards can be, if the game lacks one thing present in melee, you demonize it as a terrible game. There are other ways to win, you dont need to rely on stale technique(wavedashing, which is a glitch)

Ugh I'm trying to start not involving myself in these conversations, but I just have to say: WAVEDASHING IS NOT A GLITCH. It is part of the physics engine of Melee, it just wasn't utilized in the way it was supposed too. The original purpose was to prevent characters from clipping through the stage when they airdodged into it, so what remaining momentum you have is carried into a slide, which then puts you into a standing state. In fact, I think the Debug mode even has a title for the wavedash frames, and Nintendo Power even featured the technique in an article as an "official trick" of the game.

If you think the only technique in Melee is wavedashing, then you are incredibly misinformed. The game and meta is still evolving as people dive deeper into the game. For example only now are people starting to employ Shield-dropping and consistent power-shields into their game.

Btw, calling a community obnoxious when you accuse it of "demonizing" or calling it "stale" is in itself obnoxious. What you were responding to is a fair criticism of your game based on basic competitive fighting game principles, not "demonization". If there is no consequence for defensive play, and in fact are rewarded for it, then that will centralize the game around said defensive options creating stale gameplay. If Street Fighter allowed you to guard without taking chip damage, then you can bet that everyone would be holding back and never attacking each other.

Sorry had to get that off my chest.

 

[CAUP]

Smash 4 players need to realize they are not entitled to have anyone else care about them. :/ Melee players do not have to try out your game. They don't. And a lot of us are sick of hearing to try it (not one of them). Do not be the whiny kid next door begging people to play with you. If this game is actually super amazing, the community DOES NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING IN TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE IT IS GREAT.

You know what makes people play games for years and years? It's not other people liking a game. It's THEM liking a game.

Are you a smash 4 player wanting more and more people to play with? If so, why? Is it because you have a contagious love for it? If not, your game will die. Keep in mind you can not force this sort of love. Is this being stirred up in smash 4 players? I have no idea but if it is in you, fight for it.

 

[BobVance_]

What's with the people saying "Smash 4 every char is viable come on guiz"? Lol, then why does Diddy win most tournaments? Seriously, I swear the "every char is balanced" people always come out of the woodwork with every new fighting game.

 

[trash?]

a group of ignorant, entitled pre-teens are bitter and angry that a game with a community that actually cares gets the success it deserves, only to remain apathetic about their own game, to the point of almost no crowd reaction at grand tournaments, and inevitably letting it die off as a result?

call me a bit cynical, but I think I heard this story before

 

[Umbra of Shadows]

Why can we not just have all Smash games to play? There is not a need to ditch certain Smash games in favor of others.

Smash 64 is still an interesting game to play and watch in my opinion. Also, without it, the rest of the games would not exist.

Melee has value as well as a fast-paced game that is difficult to master. Also I would not say that the entire meta of Melee is now static and unchanging; this is the year that aMSa came in 5th place at the largest Melee tournament ever using Yoshi, a character considered to be low tier with little potential by many. Also, I was experimenting with Pichu and may have discovered a 0-death against Fox (not tested against a DI-ing human, so it's not a guarantee).

Although I am personally not a huge fan of Brawl, it still has a place in the community because of its entertainment value. Even though it's not the Smash game the most people agree with, it's a Smash game nonetheless.

Smash 4 still has a developing metagame. It is by no means worthless. Although we can say that Smash 4 is slower than Melee or that it has less tech skills, it still requires a great amount of knowledge to play effectively. I find Smash 4 interesting because many of the game's characters seem viable on at least some level of competitive play. This game should not go anywhere. When it is considered that there are over 2500 possible matchups in this iteration of smash, it can stay interesting for a long time (that is, given that people will make an attempt to use the entire cast, which I believe I am seeing, even if people still gravitate towards high-tiers).

TL;DR Every Smash game deserves to coexist. There is no reason to shun one of them and place it in the corner because of its age, nor is there a reason to not invest time in new releases. With proper care and interest, every Smash game can be interesting to watch, fun to play, and have a deep metagame that requires not only tech skill, but also strategy prediction, and mindgames.

*End lengthy paragraph-style comment*

 

[BobVance_]

Besides, what's really the issue here? If the people went to Apex thought Smash 4 was horribly boring to watch, that's not their fault. Lol...The game is just not exciting. Deal with the fact that you have a game with bad mechanics instead of telling people to shut up and like it.

 

[BlazingFireOmega]

Not gonna lie, The Smash Fanbase makes the Sonic Fanbase look like nice people...

 

[BluEG]

Why can we not just have all Smash games to play? There is not a need to ditch certain Smash games in favor of others.

Smash 64 is still an interesting game to play and watch in my opinion. Also, without it, the rest of the games would not exist.

Melee has value as well as a fast-paced game that is difficult to master. Also I would not say that the entire meta of Melee is now static and unchanging; this is the year that aMSa came in 5th place at the largest Melee tournament ever using Yoshi, a character considered to be low tier with little potential by many. Also, I was experimenting with Pichu and may have discovered a 0-death against Fox (not tested against a DI-ing human, so it's not a guarantee).

Although I am personally not a huge fan of Brawl, it still has a place in the community because of its entertainment value. Even though it's not the Smash game the most people agree with, it's a Smash game nonetheless.

Smash 4 still has a developing metagame. It is by no means worthless. Although we can say that Smash 4 is slower than Melee or that it has less tech skills, it still requires a great amount of knowledge to play effectively. I find Smash 4 interesting because many of the game's characters seem viable on at least some level of competitive play. This game should not go anywhere. When it is considered that there are over 2500 possible matchups in this iteration of smash, it can stay interesting for a long time (that is, given that people will make an attempt to use the entire cast, which I believe I am seeing, even if people still gravitate towards high-tiers).

TL;DR Every Smash game deserves to coexist. There is no reason to shun one of them and place it in the corner because of its age, nor is there a reason to not invest time in new releases. With proper care and interest, every Smash game can be interesting to watch, fun to play, and have a deep metagame that requires not only tech skill, but also strategy prediction, and mindgames.

*End lengthy paragraph-style comment*

Please read this post everyone. Please.
I just want to add that in a world where we all coexist, one game will always be the most popular. It just stands as a fact that Melee is the most popular right now. Does that mean Melee is the best and we're all elitist melee phags? No. It just means Melee is more popular.

 

[Opossum]

Besides, what's really the issue here? If the people went to Apex thought Smash 4 was horribly boring to watch, that's not their fault. Lol...The game is just not exciting. Deal with the fact that you have a game with bad mechanics instead of telling people to shut up and like it.

You see, it's responses like this that cause problems. Justifying an act of blatant disrespect? Pitiful. No way around it.

And way to flaunt your opinion around as fact. People like you ruin any chance of actual discussion and instead resort to fanning flame wars with petty remarks like this.


Take note, folks, the post I'm responding to is how not to have a discussion.

 

[BobVance_]

There's a reason Melee is more popular though. If Smash 4 encompassed something more than defense and dthrow to aerials I'm sure people would it give it a chance.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Call me rude @ KyroChao , but this is pretty much what happened to you in this thread....

 

[BobVance_]

You see, it's responses like this that cause problems. Justifying an act of blatant disrespect? Pitiful. No way around it.

And way to flaunt your opinion around as fact. People like you ruin any chance of actual discussion and instead resort to fanning flame wars with petty remarks like this.


Take note, folks, the post I'm responding to is how not to have a discussion.

Who cares? People are rude everywhere you go. It just so happens that gaming even at those events is a very casual thing, people aren't gonna act "professional." It is what it is.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Wow this first page of "comments".

Dear sweet lord. I thank you for this article...

Kappa

 

[Opossum]

Who cares? People are rude everywhere you go. It just so happens that gaming even at those events is a very casual thing, people aren't gonna act "professional." It is what it is.

I care. Others do as well. Deal with it.

It doesn't make it right. All it shows is that some people lack regard for basic human decency. And THAT, I'm afraid, is something I can't defend.

 

[BluEG]

There's a reason Melee is more popular though. If Smash 4 encompassed something more than defense and dthrow to aerials I'm sure people would it give it a chance.

There's not need to throw fire onto the flames man. We can point fingers and fire shots all we want, but at the end of the day its just our games in the ring...let Melee's popularity be a testament of how good of a game it is and let people gravitate towards it for that reason, not because a similar game is 'not as good' in your opinion. Maybe new players will find out that they like Smash 4 better, but they have to make that decision on their own without biased arguments and opinions steering them one way or another.

 

[BobVance_]

I care. Others do as well. Deal with it.

It doesn't make it right. All it shows is that some people lack regard for basic human decency. And THAT, I'm afraid, is something I can't defend.

No, you deal with it. Your "community" needs to grow a pair, like, seriously, have you ever been to a sports event of any kind? I take it no since you guys seem so shocked at some disrespect from the crowd. You don't have to condone it, but you guys are being overly dramatic about it. Play your game, and ignore the haters. If Smash 4 doesn't fare at events as well it's most likely due to the game's inherent spectating flaws.

 

[Jahnathan]

HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

WE'RE NOT JUST DEALING WITH REGULAR EVERY DAY STUPID BOYS, THIS IS ADVANCED STUPID

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, people call Melee a fun game to watch, even though it's really, really, ****ing boring due to the game being the same for years. Not to mention the players that play any tournament for any game in general aren't trying to entertain you with accordions and dancing monkeys, they're trying to win. They don't give a rats ass about whether your 6-year-old mind is entertained or not as long as they're winning. There's a reason why space furries are so common in Melee people.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

We did. I'm advocating P:M, what are you two still going on about Melee for. P:M fox is a whole different story, buddy.

Also last I checked, Melee Fox didn't win Apex. (smirk)

He came pretty close though lol

But my apologies, thought you were talking about Melee.

 

[KyroChao]

In a final post of mine, i want to get my final thoughts out before i take my leave to simply watch the rest play out, seeing as i kinda started this whole thing unintentionally and might as well end my role.

I wouldn't say any of the smash games are inherently bad in any way, or even have bad mechanics(also i classified wavedashing as a glitch, an error on my point but it IS technically an exploit), they all just have different traits that set them apart in different ways.

Melee has blood pumping high octane speed that has proved that it can hold up to this day. In no way am i ready to see it die, in case i came off as such. Melee has definitely earned the place it has.

Brawl, while it didnt bring the fast pace and advanced techniques melee had, it in its own right did thinfs that should be commended, however i do agree that its definitely below melee and smash 4

Smash 4 is still relatively new, i saw BobVance retort something i said about its techniques by saying they've most likely all been found. If melee is still learning new things, then i'd like to know how we cant for sm4sh. Smash 4 has a much greater roster which leads to an incredible amount of diversity that its going to take a long time for the true meta to be established. Personally, i want to get there sooner than latter, so i just feel it deserves a bit more attention FOR A SHORT WHILE to establish it. Whether or not it stays relevant is in none of our control.


Also i fail to see how im a hypocrit if my fox statement was in retort to a diddy statement, both have a similar go to, and that was my point. Plus, project m has had much longer to be learned, less character TO learn, and mechanics from melee that are transferred over to it.

 

[Opossum]

No, you deal with it. Your "community" needs to grow a pair, like, seriously, have you ever been to a sports event of any kind? I take it no since you guys seem so shocked at some disrespect from the crowd. You don't have to condone it, but you guys are being overly dramatic about it.

I think you're missing the point. Badly. You're no William Tell.

But speaking of telling, let me tell you something. At a sporting even (I've been to a few, actually. Missed the mark a bit there, I'm afraid) there are generally two sides, often both being of large sizes, cheering for two teams that are SUPPOSED to be against each other.

Smash 4 was never COMPETING with Melee. It shouldn't be. They're their own damn games. Hence why it's wrong. And the fact that you're trying to justify what happened is, frankly, sickening. It shows just how low we've fallen. And that's sad.


Don't dig your hole deeper. You've already spewed your sludge long enough.

 

[Wilyen]

learn to follow the common rule of: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

on to the subject. i agree with max.

 

[BobVance_]

I think you're missing the point. Badly. You're no William Tell.

But speaking of telling, let me tell you something. At a sporting even (I've been to a few, actually. Missed the mark a bit there, I'm afraid) there are generally two sides, often both being of large sizes, cheering for two teams that are SUPPOSED to be against each other.

Smash 4 was never COMPETING with Melee. It shouldn't be. They're their own damn games. Hence why it's wrong. And the fact that you're trying to justify what happened is, frankly, sickening. It shows just how low we've fallen. And that's sad.


Don't dig your hole deeper. You've already spewed your sludge long enough.

...And in this case, they're cheering for which one they wanted to watch; top 8 in Melee or top 8 in Smash 4. It's no different, your analogy honestly still applies here.

 

[CAUP]

If you don't think melee is entertaining, you don't understand and play it. I mean, I don't mean that in a bad way but people thinking melee is boring to watch are not the majority. There's a reason 150,000 people tuned into APEX. If you get into it, it is very fun to watch.

 

[Bedoop]

EVERYONE CALM DOWN I KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO
...
Dry Bones.

 

[Deleted member]

I think we should stop arguing. Let's get along, shall we?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I think you're missing the point. Badly. You're no William Tell.

But speaking of telling, let me tell you something. At a sporting even (I've been to a few, actually. Missed the mark a bit there, I'm afraid) there are generally two sides, often both being of large sizes, cheering for two teams that are SUPPOSED to be against each other.

Smash 4 was never COMPETING with Melee. It shouldn't be. They're their own damn games. Hence why it's wrong. And the fact that you're trying to justify what happened is, frankly, sickening. It shows just how low we've fallen. And that's sad.


Don't dig your hole deeper. You've already spewed your sludge long enough.

Exactly, people need to realize that there is no dumping Melee or PM. The fact that people say that just shows me ignorance.

However, the people that refuse to accept Smash 4 into the competitive scene is its own ignorance all together.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Im here for the salt, come on, give it to me

I think we should stop arguing. Let's get along, shall we?

When people see the words Smash 4, They get triggered.
They get Triggered so hard that the Japanese animation company Studio Trigger, would animate their lives