Smash Wii U Gets a "Call To Arms"

[C-SAF]

HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.

Another smash4 fan who doesn't understand they are playing an entirely different game. How about we all give smash a break and give splatoon a chance?
Play whatever u like, don't care what others do.

 

[YourFaithfulStudent]

dis is cool.

 

[TheDeathChicken]

Wow. This comment section turned into a ****-show.

 

[ph00tbag]

My two cents: SmashU needs more HOO HAH.

And just so we're clear, "HOO! HAH!" refers to the cheer when Diddy does dthrow -> aerial.

 

[Sleek Media]

Or, instead of all this posturing and begging for attention, we could just play the game and let the chips fall. This ambition to become popular in the eyes of people who don't even play the game is pathetic and childish.

 

[Takehiko]

First things first.
1. If you're a player of another smash game besides SSB4 to the point where not matter what SSB4 does as far as improvement, you'll dislike it then please move on. There's no point in wasting time and space on the boards expressing hateful ideas of Smash4.
2. If you're smash4 player and you're adhearing to this Call of Arms and you're skill level is low (Mine is too, so I'm speaking from experience.), please refrain from posting more video content and flooding the market with footage that won't advance the game.
3. If you're part of the other smash game players and you're willing to play smash4 and work with it, please help us advance smash 4. We can use your experience of older games to bring a new thought process to the game. This type of thing is what help SF4's meta game because the SF3 players were able to take characters that players weren't willing to pick up and push the boundery and advance the meta game.

That's all I can say on this.
-ATLTeemo
First things first.
1. If you're a player of another smash game besides SSB4 to the point where not matter what SSB4 does as far as improvement, you'll dislike it then please move on. There's no point in wasting time and space on the boards expressing hateful ideas of Smash4.
2. If you're smash4 player and you're adhearing to this Call of Arms and you're skill level is low (Mine is too, so I'm speaking from experience.), please refrain from posting more video content and flooding the market with footage that won't advance the game.
3. If you're part of the other smash game players and you're willing to play smash4 and work with it, please help us advance smash 4. We can use your experience of older games to bring a new thought process to the game. This type of thing is what help SF4's meta game because the SF3 players were able to take characters that players weren't willing to pick up and push the boundery and advance the meta game.

That's all I can say on this.
-ATLTeemo

 

[Ningildo]

Comment salt 2 gud.

You'd think that just caring about your game and being indifferent about others would be the limit of how "hateful" you should be. But...

Wait, I'm not here to fan flames. I came here to see vocal minorities get taken seriously instead of being ignored (cause silence=admitting defeat/being wrong, apparently) instead of studying.

Dance, puppets, dance *_*

 

[thehard]

lol @ the guy who lives in the PM social thread trying to stir **** with "pre-teens"

 

[Lizalfos]

You're a fool. You actually can NOT turn everything he said around, because he said those things to show that his opposing arguer's points could be turned around.

You can't turn around something that's turning around something else. You're only proving and agreeing with KyroChao here.

Congratulations you have completely missed the point!

On Diddy, you could be right, as he was responding to BobVance, who was being really toxic. I was working with the tone of his other posts, where he suggested that other games should take a back seat, and at the time I saw him as just trying to rail on a game he disliked.
There misunderstanding could have been the problem, but with his comments
on Project M...
This:

No, i think the fact that a mod of an existing game thats had its chance to be in the spotlight for a damn long time does not need to come back into focus while a new game is still being learned

Was in response to this statement:

You must not have been around for the whole "giving P:M the shaft" that occurred in the past few months. All the while Smash 4 continued to take spotlight (and still is). No smash game needs to "take a break."

Xermo was merely stating that nobody needs to take a break from their game in order to make room for Smash 4. In response Kyro said, without a hint of mockery, that PM needs to continue to be shunned.

That is a ignorant and toxic mentality to have.

 

[Ganreizu]

If you're a competitive smash fan, why would you want to limit yourself to a 13 year old game that has practically bled all the meta it can?

I know you're joking. You don't have to pretend you're not. I mean you must know that a brand new technique, light powershielding, was discovered in the middle of finals day of apex 2015 right? Apex also known as the biggest tournament up to that point in it's so far 14* year old history where a yoshi got 5th place and a marth took 1st? Surely you're joking.

 

[Tino]

The only "Hoo Hah!" I see around here is this whole argument with no meaning whatsoever. Really, why can't we all just get along and play whatever Smash Bros. game we enjoy the most like grown men?

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.

Too bad for you that it is just your opinion. Sm4sh will always just barely ride on the coat tails of Melee style games.

 

[Boss N]

So dramatic, and a lot of you really need to grow a pair. Smash 4 is pooped on at events because it's very, very boring to watch. End of story.

So is street fighter, but you don't see anyone complaining there.

Practice what you preach.

 

[KyroChao]

Too bad for you that it is just your opinion. Sm4sh will always just barely ride on the coat tails of Melee style games.

Hence the IMO of course~
tho in that post specifically i never even said it would....lol?

There misunderstanding could have been the problem, but with his comments
on Project M...
This:

Was in response to this statement:

Xermo was merely stating that nobody needs to take a break from their game in order to make room for Smash 4. In response Kyro said, without a hint of mockery, that PM needs to continue to be shunned.

That is a ignorant and toxic mentality to have.

Admittedly, yes, that was incredibly toxic on my behalf and while im not proud of it, i do have my own personal reasons for not liking project m. I respect and appreciate the goals and purpose of the mod, i just dont like it

 

[GreenFlame]

Wow, it seems as though some of the discussion here is taking the assumption that there can only be one game in the 'spotlight' and that this is a popularity contest and not about people playing the games they like.

Smash 4 players, if you want the game to have a strong competitive scene then be part of that competitive scene and help it grow. That doesn't mean "be toxic and elitist towards other Smash games and their players and claim that they've been popular for too long".

I know that there is toxicity from Melee players, but that doesn't meant to be toxic back. But either way being elitist about your game towards people who play other games because you don't like their game is close-minded and immature.

I don't support "giving Melee and P:M a break". A break from what? A break from their own scenes? Are you gonna go around and force people who play those games to stop? The argument is flawed, and assumes that somehow only one fanbase is allowed to play their game at one time and again that this is a popularity contest.

So, Smash 4 players, build your scene alongside Melee and P:M. Don't act like there can only be one Super Smash Bros scene at once.

 

[Ur2Slow]

I just want everyone to enjoy smash as a whole. Play whatever you want, but turn the community into something that isn't fighting over someone's own preference of game. I swear, this in-fighting in the comments is ridiculous

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I know you're joking. You don't have to pretend you're not. I mean you must know that a brand new technique, light powershielding, was discovered in the middle of finals day of apex 2015 right? Apex also known as the biggest tournament up to that point in it's so far 14* year old history where a yoshi got 5th place and a marth took 1st? Surely you're joking.

They keep trying to make the undeveloped meta its selling point, but the meta is just one and often small part of what makes a good game. Some nerds have a hard time accepting that when someone finds the mechanics and match-ups that the meta is based on completely uninteresting and unengaging, they aren't going to change their minds. People like Kyro need to be permanently banned for perpuating **** talk about games that they aren't obligated to play (and actually are entirely indepted to the older communities that they have existing avenues for competitive play).

People that still call wave dashing a glitch in 2015 need to be permanently banned too.

 

[Hellrazor]

Judging by this thread, I have concluded that nobody wants the other games to succeed.

Well, aren't we the supportive community? I'm sure glad we can all hate each other's preferences.

Spoiler

Seriously, guys, just let everybody enjoy their own games. Sm4sh should live, Melee should live, PM should live.

 

[We Are GX]

I'm very much on the side of developing Sm4sh and everything it has to offer. The thing with melee and brawl in general was that it was a generational thing. I didn't grow up loving and playing melee. I got into smash with brawl. I understand why everyone likes Melee and thinks it superior, but at the same time I love this game and want it to development. How many new techs were found throughout Melee's career? Who is to say Sm4sh wont go the same way? I love this game too much to give up on it and "just go back to melee".

 

[Game&Watcher]

This thread in a nutshell:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Should Smash 4 get a chance? Well, yeah, Melee wasn't top tier uber competitive lel 13 years ago, it took baby steps and rose, I think Smash 4 should be able to do the same, who knows? Maybe Diddy would even turn out to be the new Kirby, lowest tier! I remember Sakurai saying if there is a balance problem he'd make a new patch, though he judges balance based on 4 Free For Alls too

 

[Nessafile]

HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.

lol @ "taking a break" sorry, but nah dawg

 

[Nessafile]

Why do smash 4 players desperately want Melee players approval? smh....

and anyone who thinks elee should be a side event is stupid considering we pull more numbers l0l

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

My two cents: SmashU needs more HOO HAH.

Why? It's stupid and pointless, obnoxious as hell, and it emphasizes a relatively boring and simple combo over all of the game's depth and strategy. What's the big deal?

Well, go back and watch the Wombo Combo. Don't bother watching what's happening in the game; just listen to what people are saying. It's ****ing insipid. I mean, what the hell is even the relationship between anything that's said? "My **** hurts!"? What are we? 13? Wombo Combo is a really friggin' stupid thing, and then when you watch the combo without audio, it's hard to tell what people are even getting all atwitter about. It's a pretty standard grab-lock team combo. It's not particularly difficult, up until the reaction knee at the end.

But that the Wombo Combo is a watershed moment for Melee is not even a matter up for debate at this point. It showed the world not what Melee was at its most sublime, but what it meant to the people who loved it. It makes them giddy, it makes them incoherent and bug-eyed, even for the little things. Three months later, the first RoM was meant to be a last hurrah for a dead game, but that's when it became apparent that people were still paying attention. But it wasn't because the game was good, it was because it was clear there was a community that loved this game and embraced it, flaws and all (regardless of whether you think Melee's good or not, this statement holds). Wombo Combo was pivotal in establishing that love.

HOO HAH! is a phenomenon. Full disclosure, I am something of a Melee Elitist. I have a pretty strong opinion that, all told, Melee is a better game, and I honestly have a difficult time sitting through most SmashU games. That's not really here nor there. When I watch a Diddy Kong match, watching for the grab so I can shout, "HOO! HAH!" keeps me engaged, and I enjoy the entire match, regardless of how long it takes. Shouting like that, I can feel at least a comprehension of the love a SmashU player should feel for the game. It's through this kind of participatory, unqualified adulation for the game, that people who do not understand the game come to appreciate it. And with that, viewer base will grow, and with a larger viewer base, a larger player base will come.

Max is right. You need to love this game, and show it. If SmashU fails, it won't be because Melee elitists like myself killed it. That gives us waaaaay too much credit (and to tell you the truth, there are many such people who would be all too happy to believe it if that's what you said). What will kill it is if you don't love the game, more importantly if you don't love the parts of the game that are stupid and broken, and if you don't love those parts more than the parts that play as intended. What will kill it is if we can tell you don't love the game. So love it. And convince the world you love it. But above all, in the words of President Snow, "convince me."

And for Celestia's sake if there's a character as broken as Metaknight, just ban him now. (Diddy's not that broken.)

Dude this is so well said. I prefer Smash 4 and I was very happy at Apex when the crowd was so engaged in the M2K vs Zero ditto (and I think the games were actually exciting due to how good of smash players these two were). It was just people finally embracing their own game and showing that they love it (even if what they were cheering for wasn't particularly what they loved about the game).

The HOO HAH (and now even perhaps the HOO HOH for throw -> fair) may very well be what will guarantee Smash 4 a long lasting future.

 

[rp17000]

Elitism vs entitlement.
Insults vs ignorance.

That's any Smash 4 comment section in a nutshell.

It seems it is always a vocal minority of Melee fanboys that always starts it, but the Smash 4 fans are so dang defensive they they just flip. This "defending" of their game is not helping their cause. If anything, it makes the Smash 4 community look pathetic. This goes to any of these fans that say Smash 4 should just replace Melee/PM or any similar statement. These comments just make the entire Smash 4 community look stupid because of your ignorance.

And to the Melee elitists, why do you always comment about a game you don't even care about? Are you threatened by a game that "sucks?" That would just be stupid. Why even bother commenting? Just to rile up the easily offended Smash 4 community? At the very least give Smash 4 time to prove itself (or not) before criticizing it. Melee wasn't exactly fun to watch for the first few YEARS, so why do you expect so much from a game that's been out for a few MONTHS?

 

[RanserSSF4]

although i will agree that views is one of the very important factors for a competitive fighter, Max raises a good point.

A strong, supportive competitive scene = A long lasting competitive fighter.

The Melee community, although can be very toxic at times (no offense), is one of the best examples of this. The major support and passionate love from the fans has both kept and revived Melee both before, during, and after the brawl era...or just during its 14 year life cycle.

Same thing with 64, PM, and Brawl still had a long lasting community, even if it didn't last as long as Melee.

I'll just say this: Play whatever smash game you like the most and help it's scene grow. Don't try focusing or paying attention to negative opinions or the haters. Just support whatever smash game you love. I support both Melee and Smash 4, but i support smash 4 the most and want to help it grow.

Yes, Melee is the better competitive game. NO denying that, but if it wasn't for the communities support and passion, Melee would've been dead a LONG time ago!

 

[TheHypnotoad]

also i know it's been mentioned but viewers is incredibly important to keeping the scene alive. therefore if Smash 4 is putting it's viewers to sleep, that's not a good sign.

Smash 4's viewers aren't getting put to sleep. Melee players are watching it, find it boring, and then start saying "Look guys, it's putting everyone to sleep!"

 

[Lizalfos]

Somebody in the PM social made a good point about how Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo has lots of RNG that isn't conducive to a healthy competitive game, but that it still has a strong community surrounding it in japan, 25 years later.

The point is, community strength matter more than how "competitively viable" your game is. That was Juice's point.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Seriously, guys, just let everybody enjoy their own games. Sm4sh should live, Melee should live, PM should live.

But 64 and Brawl can go **** themselves, amirite?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I know you're joking. You don't have to pretend you're not. I mean you must know that a brand new technique, light powershielding, was discovered in the middle of finals day of apex 2015 right? Apex also known as the biggest tournament up to that point in it's so far 14* year old history where a yoshi got 5th place and a marth took 1st? Surely you're joking.

Key word is practically.

Surely you're not trying to argue that Melee's meta is still as fresh as can be. I mean you did say yourself, "14* year old history". So you mean to tell me that because one new tech has been overlooked for 14* years, that automatically proves that Melee is still almost as fresh as Smash 4... which hasn't even hit it's 1st birthday? And the fact that you mention Yoshi is telling me that after 14 years, it's the revolution to a brand new Melee because a Yoshi got so high in the ranks? Seems you're picking needles from a haystack.

Surely you're joking.

Gonna go ahead and assume you're afraid of the word "new."

 

[brodouble]

Smash 4's viewers aren't getting put to sleep. Melee players are watching it, find it boring, and then start saying "Look guys, it's putting everyone to sleep!"

uhh, no. a whole lot of people thought apex smash 4 was boring. in fact, in terms of stream viewership, a lot of streamers on anther's ladder have said smash 4 hurts viewership. cuz it's boring to watch.

seriously, this is the same crap you heard when brawl came out. now people openly admit brawl was bad. fact is you all just like whatever the newest thing is. sakurai himself has said brawl and smash 4 aren't really meant to be good competitive games; melee was a fluke and you guys have tried to keep the same momentum alive with the sequels, but that's all on you. people don't have to get on board with it. i think smash 4 is fine for casual play, like brawl, but bad for events, tbh. it's too slow and defensive and boring. i like fighting games where you actually get to fight, thank you. not just put up shield, spot dodge and hop around the stage for 4 minutes waiting for an opening.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

smashboards might need a forum to quarantee this type of talk in it's own forum, based on the topic, melee shouldn't have been mentioned in every other post.

 

[Kati]

Fact is, Melee isn't short of flaws. Especially when it comes to the tier list.

If you're a competitive smash fan, why would you want to limit yourself to a 13 year old game that has practically bled all the meta it can? Especially considering we have a brand new Smash with HUGE potential in the competitive scene. New meta, seemingly much more tight tier list (means less fox v fox battles etc), more characters to learn about in general, new mechanics to adapt to (making it anyone's game)... it yearns for the competitive scene.

Brawl had a lot of issues to be considered as viable as Melee, that much is true. But how do we get any further if all we do is stick with the same thing we have been for 13 years?

I'm not saying dump Melee or PM either. I'm saying we should ADD Smash 4 to the list instead of taking a peek at it and calling it junk because it's not Melee 2. I have recently gotten into a debate with a Melee fan saying Smash 4 has no meta to dig into... literally. So what I'm getting at is nobody knows. But what I've dug into proves to me that this game may actually have the potential to last as long as Melee has.

But alas, the biggest problem with die-hard melee fans seems to be the fact that they can't accept change.

Not a melee fanboy, but the meta hasn't bled out.

1. Shield dropping is only just being integrated into top 8 play.

2. Z power shielding was just discovered this year.

 

[EpixAura]

Didn't even read the original post. Just stopped by to laugh at the comments, and they have far exceeded my expectations. Good job. Keep up whatever the hell it is you guys are doing here. It's good stuff.

 

[Hellrazor]

But 64 and Brawl can go **** themselves, amirite?

Yeah, **** those games.

Spoiler

I didn't see them as part of the discussion. I figured they'd be a given.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

This whole debate can be summed up as, "What you enjoy is stupid and what I enjoy is superior."

Maybe we could grow up? Maybe respect each other's interests? I don't know. I feel like that would be cool...?

 

[Ganreizu]

Key word is practically.

Surely you're not trying to argue that Melee's meta is still as fresh as can be. I mean you did say yourself, "14* year old history". So you mean to tell me that because one new tech has been overlooked for 14* years, that automatically proves that Melee is still almost as fresh as Smash 4... which hasn't even hit it's 1st birthday? And the fact that you mention Yoshi is telling me that after 14 years, it's the revolution to a brand new Melee because a Yoshi got so high in the ranks? Seems you're picking needles from a haystack.

Surely you're joking.

Gonna go ahead and assume you're afraid of the word "new."

I can pick examples of new meta showcased from upper tier characters at apex if you want (like people using delayed reflectors as a bait for people looking to punish mistakes). Smash4 is still the definition of fresh meat and will continue to be, simply because mewtwo is not out. But that's not the point. The point was that melee is old and it's running out of new stuff. Except it isn't, and that makes it far more impressive BECAUSE it's 14 years old. Someone can still come into the scene and find something new if they look hard enough (like i did), compared to finding something new because the game itself is new.

Plagiarism isn't cool, man.

 

[EpixAura]

People seem to be forgetting that the games coexisting isn't as easy as what people in this thread seem to think. When it was primarily Melee and PM, it was easy because of the similarities. The communities' had a lot of overlapping players. Often times, players enjoyed watching both games. At the very least, PM certainly didn't get the response Smash 4 has gotten. With Smash 4 basically taking PM's place at events like Apex and CEO, it's a much less enjoyable experience for the Melee community (and to a much larger degree, the PM community) as a whole. While Melee and Smash 4 (generally) aren't competing, PM IS frequently competing with Smash 4, and all those reasons people had to ignore the game are now reasons to outright hate it.

Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that there IS competition among all the games, and this "can't we all just get along" mindset just isn't right. Frankly, it might be better for each community involved if Smash 4 and Melee distanced themselves. That is, not having both games at the same event. It's extreme, and it's not like I'm 100% confident this is what we should do, but it's an idea, and it could help the Smash 4 community a lot.

 

[zFrost]

HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.

pm's been on a break since big tournies havent been running it, how about sm4sh AND pm

 

[κomıc]

I think the first step is stop the circle-jerking and excuse making when behaving out of line. People hold this community so close and dear and any criticisms directed at it comes with people piling on another because an issue is being called out for being unacceptable.

Also, excuses. Own it. Don't justify the wrongs made.

Next, first impressions. If you act like a moron- a new person will think this the way you act in and out of the community. Don't look at it as being judgmental. Look at it as, "Maybe I shouldn't act over the top treat and speak of others badly over a video game."

Not everyone knows that you're the Happy Mask Salesman with 40 different personas.

And really, it all comes down to respect=respect. There's a handful of people that write you off because you don't impress them in a video game and that really discourages prospective players because they feel like they need to make others feel happy or "hype" to be accepted, respected, or make friends. And It's sad that I see some people kiss ass just to get noticed. At the end of the day, though, it isn't ever going to change over night and the mentality will still stick. Granted, this doesn't account for the majority, but it happens too often not to take notice or mention.

Recent example: a top and really good player here in FL has been playing Smash for about 2 years (maybe even more) and has attended a lot tournaments with moderate success. The moment he beats out the best in Florida, now they want to be his friend and acknowledge him despite them ignoring this person for some time (they even categorized him as a new player).

I just roll my eyes at this group because they're pretty much the textbook definition of what I described.

But in any case, the Melee Nazis. Yeah, I'm calling them that. Yeah, they need to cut it out with elitism and BS. It's been how many years since the community divided? Since 2008? And we're still taking steps back and pushing the community in separate ways? It's a joke.

In all honesty, the Smash community reminds me a lot of the social issues in the real world and that's troubling. You got 'celebrities' like Mango who has hundreds(?) of fans just as any other celebrity in the real world (Taylor Swift, Justin Timberlake, etc) who will defend Mango even if he does something wrong or foul in the community (to my knowledge he didn't or hasn't- there are celebrities in the Smash scene who have done wrong and the fans will swarm in to justify and defend just as Justin Bieber fan-girls, for example).

Then you have religion... Melee Nazis, particularly (let me clear this up- I am not saying all Melee fans fit this description so put down the pitch forks- it is about those folks who go out of their way to crap on anything that isn't Melee and sour the experience at tournaments). They're really no different than say, The Westboro Baptist church. In their eyes, you're wrong and sinful if you don't repent from Smash 4, Brawl or, maybe to an extent but not really, Project M. You're going to a metaphorical Hell if you don't drop those games and convert to Melee. So, they protest at a tournament (large tournament like what happened at Apex 2015) and cause raucous.

No sense of unison here. Just the same bull**** that has been going on for years and no sign of stopping.

Now here's the thing, some may think I'm ****ting on the community (I'm not, honestly). But if you want the community to get better, you're going to have to be raw and forward with the fundamental issues that has been occurring in the community. I'm tired of people being so soft and trying to sweep things under the rug and pretend things mentioned don't exist. They do. And because it hasn't been addressed at the start or effectively, it has mushroomed over. It may be some isolated incidents here and there, but **** like this shouldn't be happening. At all. Why would anyone who looks to the Smash community as an escape from the real world (that is miserable all around) come to something that reflects a lot of things they are trying to take a break from?

Why does the Smash community have social issues that mirror the real world? This shouldn't be happening.

I'm going to place the blame on humans. They can never see eye to eye and it's always a battle to see who is right and who can get over on each other. That's really the only explanation I could come up with.

In any case, I hope things get better from here on out. I'm tired of seeing the community take steps forward and then take steps back gradually because a few want to behave like asshats.


**Pardon the language. I tend to be more blunt about things I care about. I wish for world peace.