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Smash Wii U Gets a "Call To Arms"

Rᴏb

still here, just to suffer
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,595
i'm sick of wavecheating and that l cancelled glitch, i'd rather play a game where i can smash my face into my wii + nunchuck controller combo and watch as my little monkey character tears the face off of my opponents while making some mind shattering screeches the entire time

now that's fun, screw project melee and melee and play what i want you to play because i said so
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Victor Hugo said:
No army on earth can resist the force of an idea whose time has come.
I expect great things in future. Very excited to be a part of this wonderful and vibrant community. :3
 

Pwii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
105
"How is it possible that a 13.5 year old game is accelerating at a faster pace than a brand new one--one with developer support and exposure on national television commercials?"
Lol I think I know
"no, it’s not because “Melee is just a better game.”"
WELL THEN I GOT NOTHING
 

IIWaveII

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
4
How are we going to do anything when we can't even have a civilized discussion in the comment section? We haven't even started anything yet and people are already at each others throats. Come on guys. Please. Try to understand the other side of the argument before trying to kill each other. We need to work on this.
 

brodouble

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
76
lol I love how the brawlies and smash 4 fans are just like "yeah it's not melee so that must be why they hate it." yes thats why. simply because it's not melee, not because it's slow or boring or very heavily reliant on shielding and keepaway or because the guy who got 2nd place at apex wins a lot of tournaments through timeouts, or because dthrow to some aerial is the best go-to half of the time, or because the game flat out punishes you for ever being aggressive.

look at the game's flaws and you might understand why it's not very fun to watch at events or even fun to play. i honestly think events should just be Melee and Project M; that would give Project M more life again anyway. if nintendo doesn't like it they can take their virtual boy 2 console and go **** themselves.

smash 4 is no better than brawl, the only diff is you don't get punished for moving. but the core gameplay remains the same. i have yet to see any argument for smash 4 except the usual "it's new," as always. that should be a pretty clear indicator of how bad the game actually is. its great if u enjoy the game with friends, but keep it the hell away from events. >_>
 
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StarshipGroove

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
488
Smash 4 at Shots Fired pulled good numbers for attendance and viewers + several hype moments, so the game's fine competitively. if the following large-scale tourneys can achieve the same results, then Smash 4 is in a good spot.
 
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SuaveChaser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
311
Telling people to be fake hype for smash 4 it is fun to play but it isn't a exciting spectator sport. People claim the game is so balance when it isn't it's meta is just young. PM and Melee hype is organic and isn't forced lol.
 

Lizalfos

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
3,483
Location
Greenville, SC
Did you seriously said that? People can play whatever Smash Bros. game they want without anyone telling them what to do, let it be Melee, Brawl, Project M, Sm4sh and even 64. Forcing them to play whatever game other people tells them to play is just pure stupidity.
You took the bait. I know for a fact this guy isn't serious.
 

Aurane

ㅤㅤㅤㅤ
Joined
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A Faraway Place
Why is today's community bent on choosing fun or glory and not both? Honestly, play what you like. And stop caring so much about what elitists have to say negatively about you favorites. Their opinions ain't yours.

But what do I know? :rolleyes:
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Why is today's community bent on choosing fun or glory and not both? Honestly, play what you like. And stop caring so much about what elitists have to say negatively about you favorites. Their opinions ain't yours.

But what do I know? :rolleyes:
Quite a lot, evidently. ;3
 

Probalo

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It's great that all of this has been said, but the reason that Smash 4 isn't the main Smash game now is because of Melee. Melee has shown that it has an INCREDIBLE amount of depth. That incredible amount of depth is what got Melee so far. We haven't found any sort of technique or mechanic that is anywhere near as advanced as Melee in Smash 4. I'm not saying smash 4 isn't a good competitive game, it's quite the opposite. Brawl was nerfed as a competitive game and made more as a casual game. Smash 4 found a great balance between both, and that makes Smash 4 the most accessible game in the series as a competitive game.
Smash 4 is going to be prominent, of course because it's the newest Smash game and because of it's accessibility. But unless we can find some sort of AT or mechanic or anything that can even compete with Melee, we are never going to get as big as Melee.
 

Lizalfos

Smash Master
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It's great that all of this has been said, but the reason that Smash 4 isn't the main Smash game now is because of Melee. Melee has shown that it has an INCREDIBLE amount of depth. That incredible amount of depth is what got Melee so far. We haven't found any sort of technique or mechanic that is anywhere near as advanced as Melee in Smash 4. I'm not saying smash 4 isn't a good competitive game, it's quite the opposite. Brawl was nerfed as a competitive game and made more as a casual game. Smash 4 found a great balance between both, and that makes Smash 4 the most accessible game in the series as a competitive game.
Smash 4 is going to be prominent, of course because it's the newest Smash game and because of it's accessibility. But unless we can find some sort of AT or mechanic or anything that can even compete with Melee, we are never going to get as big as Melee.
This is the wrong mentality. You won't ever make Smash 4 into Melee. If you personally like Melee more, go play it. Smash 4 will always be it's own thing, and it needs a strong community to support it for what it is.
 

MezzoMe

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
517
Location
My home(Italy)
The moment you realize that under an article quoting someone who says how important it is for the community to support the game
you see about 20 comments of people putting effort in taking down a Smash game.
#LostFaithInHumanity
 
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Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
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Bonn, Germany
Here is my viewpoint on the entire Smash 4 debate.

Smash 4 is a new game, and there is still much to explore. I think it is pretty clear its staling process will happen faster than Melee's, but right now that is not something to worry about. But in the future, that could hurt Smash 4.
I think the Diddy hate is an expression of how the Smash 4 community doesn't believe in its own game. Could you imagine Melee players hating Fox the samy way?
It probably won't happen. The reason why is because the Fox matchups can still be interesting to Melee players even if already seen X times. If the Smash 4 community doesn't feel that way about Diddy Kong, the game won't have that much of a future. Why? Right now Smash 4 relies on being unexplored to make it fun for the viewers and Smash 4 fans. At some point, some characters prove to be better, and if the game is patched, there will be hate for other characters... For a game to be loved for a long time, it needs to be good enough so the community isn't bored to see the same matchups all the time, and if that is given, every variety on top of it makes it even better. But if the depth is missing, it is only a matter of time until the metagame is "used up" and the game is getting uninteresting.
Being new doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be flawed.

Now to rant on a few fallacies:
What is this "winning by other methods" I see everywhere?
What is wrong about using wavedashs or any other advanced techniques? This is seriously a questionable attitude towards games. I approach a game with the attitude saying everything that is in the game can be used and no method or option is defined by any quality other than their effectiveness.
What is this even? It seems to be so arbitrary to just claim a certain AT is unfair. You could say in a similar way:
Players that use approaches have no honor, they are only too bad to win with timeouts. or
Players having to use back-aerials, forward-throws or up-tilts are too bad to rely on any fair methods.

The creators' intention shouldn't be relevant when exploring the game. The game, after all, is as it is and whether the metagame developing from it makes it worth playing it competitively or not will reveal itself sooner or later.

The mod argument about PM is something I don't get either, what has its official status to do with the quality of the game? Should we care if the game is made by people in a building with a shiny company logo on it or by people in a building without a shiny company logo? I don't think so.

Many Smash 4 fans here don't know much about Melee, I think. The balance is not that good indeed, and Smash 4 can keep up with it in that aspect. The fast, "sandbox" style gameplay with the ability to do custom combos and evolve complex metagame from simple rules is what makes it truly great. PM is much better in terms of balance than both, but the matchups are currently underdeveloped, so you often see too much gimmicks and only first-level-adaptation, so that takes away from PM's current metagame and is probably why Melee has the more success.

Just recently a friend of mine who was a Smash 4 player who disliked Melee and PM a bit for their "autocombos" rethought it and now prefers Melee and PM. I think Smash 4 rather catches new playes first (more characters, newer game), and some of them change their opinion as they look at other facettes of the games.
 

sc458

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
47
RIP Smash community. When someone has to publicly tell you to get a grip and get along you know it's already too late.
 

MLGF

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,922
Guys crying all this foul and PM had been making their own leaders for a while.
C'mon, level up. No one in my region has stepped up to lead sm4sh and I'm nice enough to run it with project m. If you want to be liked, step up with leaders rather then trying t live off the other games success.
 

thehard

Smash Lord
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Barbecutie
Nobody actually says wavecheating except Melee players trying to falseflag
 

Scarlet Jile

Smash Lord
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Honestly... honestly. Honestly.

We can defend Sm4sh until our blood dries up, but I just can't imagine a future to a game where it is so boring to watch so much of the cast. Every time I see Rosa & Luma picked, I tune out. Every time I see Diddy Kong played, I tune out. Because who cares? There's no sport in watching down-throw up-air kills or Rosa turtling for 5 minutes. It is tedious and predictable, which means it's not worth spectating, which means it's not worth sponsoring.

The game's only been out for a few months, and while the mid-tier feels huge and balanced, they are irrelevant as long as there's a clear top-tier.

We should really be looking into a community mod project to cut down on landing lag a bit and make the uninteresting match-ups more interesting, because it should be obvious to everyone that we are shooting ourselves in the foot by relying on Nintendo. They have no stake in the competitive scene, and Melee has survived in spite of them, rather than because of them.

Take out all the hoo-hahs, or at least make it so they don't kill early, cut down on the camping, and let's see where that gets us. I think real Diddy mains want their character back, anyway.
 
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Flawed

Smash Apprentice
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Sidenote: I still remember all the Melee vets saying the same about Brawl when it first dropped, then its metagame fleshed out and became extremely deep.
Why did you say this?:crazy: This was the worst sentence in the entire post!

Our current challenge is to become visible to them, and to show them that Smash 4 is a game worth investing in.
This is a nitpick, but , it shouldn't be a challenge to get people to grow a game... unless the game is unsatisfying.

“Players shouldn’t look to switch to where the money is, they should look to make the money come to the game they love.”
This is a great statement. But what if a lot of people happen to not love watching the game?

We’re also in desperate need of some broader tournament organization. We need more big tournaments, rather than every local TO trying to get their piece.
We cannot host bigger tournaments until we truly discover how good, and how bad the metagame is, because as of right now, we can go ahead and host a Big House, and we'll be running down our game with hoo-hahs, and high level baits into absolutely nothing by Rosalina and Sonic.

In short, they’re putting in more work than us, and they have an optimized structure for conveying that work to the masses.

Structure is important, but what about effort that feels rewarding? The game is enjoyable to play, and enjoyable to watch and no one is trying to out-gay the other person in tournament like us

Truthfully, I think this game is going to struggle because what we did with brawl. We camped, we timed out, we did single hits and then ran away, we didn't move.

Whether or not its the optimal way to play in this game, the "deep metagame" of brawl is what is crushing it down.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
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Why do people keep saying Smash 4 won't be as good as Melee? Sure, these people are actually right, but that doesn't mean we should just throw away the new games the instant they get competitive attention.

LET'S MAKE COMPETITIVE SM4SH AS HUGE AS POSSIBLE!!!!
 
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Thunderstrike

Smash Rookie
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Sep 8, 2014
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Thunderstrike7
I hope you werent one of those melee fans at apex that were absolutely disgusting too :v because i said a break not ditch it entirely
"I hope you aren't one of the thousands that enjoy playing a videogame I don't like because that would mean you are a disgusting person."

Would you grow up already and stop digging for pointless arguments for the love of Palutena.
 

MadKraken

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
35
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Why do any Smash players feel the need to recruit players from the other Smash games? Stop trying to convince each other which iteration is superior, and just play your own game. Focus on the community that already exists for your title and grow from there.

I play Sm4sh primarily; my own brother hates even watching anything non-Melee. But we respect each other's preferences and even practice in the same room. Every now and again, we even play each other on the other guy's game. And we have fun doing it. I don't bug him about letting Melee go and why Sm4sh has so much potential; he doesn't get in my grill for playing what he considers a slow and campy game. We coexist without trying to guilt each other into changing our respective opinions. It's a relationship I wish was prevalent in the Smash community as a whole (heck, the world), but, alas, this thread has been a prime example of the opposite truth.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, Brawl Minus, Project M and Smash 4 are all separate games with separate fans that play in separate ways, and that's that.
You forgot Smash Reborn :troll:
And I know you just slipped Brawl Minus in there to create the illusion that you weren't just mentioning the same 5 games as everybody else.
 

NotaSkeleton

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
53
Well i mean, you can only watch foxes in a match for so long
13 years and counting, to be exact. Surprisingly, it's still enjoyable since the skill ceiling of the character is insanely high and is only recently being reached for.
I think it's a good thing that Smash 4 fans step their game up, even though Smash 4 has received way more attention and praise than I think it deserves, while games like SSB64 and PM have suffered for it. But, hey. Focus on your scene and community if you think it's important. You can't really dislike people for caring about something.
 

MezzoMe

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
517
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My home(Italy)
Honestly... honestly. Honestly.

We can defend Sm4sh until our blood dries up, but I just can't imagine a future to a game where it is so boring to watch so much of the cast. Every time I see Rosa & Luma picked, I tune out. Every time I see Diddy Kong played, I tune out. Because who cares? There's no sport in watching down-throw up-air kills or Rosa turtling for 5 minutes. It is tedious and predictable, which means it's not worth spectating, which means it's not worth sponsoring.

The game's only been out for a few months, and while the mid-tier feels huge and balanced, they are irrelevant as long as there's a clear top-tier.

We should really be looking into a community mod project to cut down on landing lag a bit and make the uninteresting match-ups more interesting, because it should be obvious to everyone that we are shooting ourselves in the foot by relying on Nintendo. They have no stake in the competitive scene, and Melee has survived in spite of them, rather than because of them.

Take out all the hoo-hahs, or at least make it so they don't kill early, cut down on the camping, and let's see where that gets us. I think real Diddy mains want their character back, anyway.
1)Welp, good luck since the Wii U isn't hackable.
2)Lirn 2 Di Ai
No seriously, aside for the fact that for what I can remember they didn't take out Fox's Up-Throw->Uair despite the fact that in this case DI can only make it more difficult to Uair, if we want to talk about relying.
 
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EpixAura

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 19, 2010
Messages
474
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Greenville, NC
Guys please stop supporting melee and pm so much, its all exploits and no real gameplay; play braindead and autocombo for days. Smash 4 and brawl rewards patience and thinking properly, so we need to help the community grow. You melee/pm kids just wavedash and l-cancel all the time, you dont think about it anymore, complete muscle memory. Mango isnt really good, let me see him get top in smash4. Whats so fun in a game with little viable characters/stages? It just shows that melee kids dont understand that pm is a more balanced version with more good stages/characters; both games are still bad though.
You... you realize people are going to take this seriously, right?
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
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Sure, we can use stuff like Hoo Hah to create artificial engagement, but in doing so, we basically become the pro wrestling of video games - stupid, shallow, loved by immature teenagers, and without the respect of anyone else.
I think you underestimate the level of commitment in a die hard pro wrestling fan. You should read the very cogent and rational critiques of what happened at this year's Royal Rumble, and tell me that's the ranting of immature teenagers. Pro wrestling is an interesting analogy here, since most people do get into it for the gimmicks. But many stay because there's an interactivity to it that can be analyzed, and following that "choose your own adventure" story is fun to them.

In the case of Melee, how many of the tens of thousands of stream viewers for Apex 2015 do you think truly understood half of what they were watching with Melee? They didn't watch it because they wanted to analyze PPMD's footsie game vs Leffen. They watched it because they wanted to whoop and holler and cheer for someone to win. A large segment of the fanbase of any sport will be like this, but you need a certain amount of that exposure to fuel every fresh face who can bring something new to the game. And whether a game is good or not, there are going to be people leaving it for other games, so you need to keep new people coming in all the time just to break even.

I agree that the mindless hollering is shallow and cheap. But it's damn effective, so I let it be.
 

Scarlet Jile

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1)Welp, good luck since the Wii U isn't hackable.
2)Lirn 2 Di Ai
No seriously, aside for the fact that for what I can remember they didn't take out Fox's Up-Throw->Uair despite the fact that in this case DI can only make it more difficult to Uair, if we want to talk about relying.
Fox's up-throw > up-air is 500% harder to pull off than Diddy's, man. Don't even pretend it ain't. Diddy doesn't need timing, and he doesn't need to read DI--it's just completely free at certain %s. Not to mention, his grab range is half the stage, his up-air hitbox is the size of a planet, and characters float around like softballs in Sm4sh.

And the Wii U isn't "unhackable," it just hasn't made a lot of progress yet.
 
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MezzoMe

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
517
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My home(Italy)
Fox's up-throw > up-air is 500% harder to pull off than Diddy's, man. Don't even pretend it ain't. Diddy doesn't need timing, and he doesn't need to read DI--it's just completely free at certain %s. Not to mention, his grab range is half the stage, his up-air hitbox is the size of a planet, and characters float around like softballs in Sm4sh.

And the Wii U isn't "unhackable," it just hasn't made a lot of progress yet.
I never pretended that they were the same thing, but the fact that it's harder to pull off doesn't make it any more escapable, I also think that Diddy Kong is just overrated, as soon as I see people claiming that he has "great recovery" and his "Uair kills too early" but that's another story.
Also last time I checked spectators cannot view the imputs of a player so that doesn't make it any more interesting, akin to how people say that Diddy Kong is just :GCZ::GCD::GCX::GCCU: before getting wrecked like the endless Diddy Kongs at Apex, yet hardly ever anyone says that ZeRo is actually good, it's because the spectator can hardly ever see it.
 
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