Smash Wii U Gets a "Call To Arms"

[NoviceSmasher]

"Melee diehard" Yeah right try again bud. I haven't played Melee in years and have been playing Smash 4 consistently since it's release. Brawl punished you for 'friggin moving, and Smash 4 punishes you for attacking first.

git gud...shield is powerful ,,but so are grabs so it balances out,,and smash 4 can nerf diddy ...fox is broken 4eva

 

[brodouble]

git gud...shield is powerful ,,but so are grabs so it balances out,,and smash 4 can nerf diddy ...fox is broken 4eva

oh thats exciting, a grab fest.

 

[MezzoMe]

The comment section is becoming funny.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Well it is true that Smash 4 is frankly hit-or-miss in terms of spectator friendliness. There are good Diddys from a spectators point of view who know how to use his entire arsenal, but they tend to be overshadowed by bandwagoners with a one-track gameplan. A well played Sheik is very exciting, but if you drop a kill setup or stale your kill moves too quickly you can find yourself in an awkward position where you're stuck fishing for the kill at high %s. Rosalina is usually boring, as this tends to be the safest route to go with her. Sonic is capable of slowing down the match to painful extremes if he really wants to. There are definitely a lot of cool and creative things you can do with much of the cast, but the best characters are often not the flashiest. Custom Palutena might well be the most exciting viable character in Smash 4, and I do think customs open up new options for flashier play for a number of characters.
I feel that Smash 4 mechanics are pretty player-friendly, and do a good job of testing fundamentals and mindgames over arbitrary execution barriers. It properly keeps the focus of the game on the PvP aspect of the game, and the core mechanics are pretty well balanced, as overreliance on any one option, be it roll, grab, shield, spotdodge, or attack, will punish you more consistently than you would be in previous Smash games. The mechanics are nevertheless kind of bare bones and don't allow for consistent flashiness across the entire cast. Sure, the characters who are designed to be able to style can style(see Captain Falcon), but most of the time players who win are those who make best use of their bread-and-butter options rather than those who play creatively and take risks. Smash 4 really lends itself well to local and online scenes due to its accessibility, but is a bit shakier in terms of its value as a spectator-oriented eSport. That being said, there are definitely examples of real-life sports that are doing quite well that I would consider fit into this mold of being fun to play but boring to watch, the main ones I can think of being Golf and Soccer, so if enough people enjoy playing Smash 4 as I do and stay active in the scene, there's no reason why it can't last a long time.

 

[Aphistemi]

I don't understand why people judge smash 4 so quickly, I mean, tourney mode still haven't been released, Mewtwo could be the bane of Diddy and other "OP" characters, updates are still being made, its on 1.0.2 I believe? everything still has alot to show. balance patches, maybe they will get rid of diddy's hoo-hahs or whatever. like seriously

 

[Code Bread]

I'm not going to bother watching the video or reading the comments because I don't think I need to before I ask: what the heck is the point of this thread. All this does is fuel the fire between "lol fox stale meta" and "lol diddy stale meta". Really, this was a terrible idea.

 

[Big-Cat]

Just play the damn game and NOT go looking for something to make the game like *insert game*. Be happy with what you do find and explore it.

I continue to hold that the issue is not in the games but the community itself. We rather stick to the "tried and true" without taking any risks. And if you find something interesting, someone is only going to point out what it's weak against, but that's the rock paper scissors of Smash and fighting games in general.

Finally, we need to be way more innovative with mechanics in the games already. Everyone's too tunnel visioned about this or that aspect to really explore things.

 

[Zethoro]

DThrow-UpB is the real Hoo-Hah here since he actually says it.

Should not be suprised this turned hostile.

 

[EpixAura]

I mean, we all knew comments would turn out with this. I think whoever wrote this article is an assassin trying to take Smash 4 down from the inside. Can't imagine why else someone would write this.

 

[stancosmos]

This post gave me such faith in the smash community... Until I read all these half witted comments. Honestly guys, grow up. The melee vs smash4 debate does nothing but damage both games. Honestly, I've been meaning to join more tournaments but it's less appealing when it seems like anyone who plays competitively is an insufferable elitist. Can we all agree that were all just sitting aroun playing video games and on the count of three well all yank our heads out of our ***es?

 

[RanserSSF4]

The more I read the comments, the more I'm like:

"Are you serious? *FACEPALM* Grow up!"

 

[NoviceSmasher]

oh thats exciting, a grab fest.

ooh a fox fest super exciting

 

[Juubei]

Smash 4 Players are trying so hard to convince everyone that it is a fun and enjoyable to watch (competitive) game. The reality is, you shouldn't have to convinve people that your game is hype and has potential, they should know. I'm sure most melee and PM player have tried Smash 4 and here is the difference, as a Smash 64 player, when i played melee for the first time,i knew melee had potential, same goes for PM, when i played smash 4 for the first time, it was a frustrating experience and everything felt so restrictive(huge landing lag on aerial and no way to reduce it, no shield hitstun, really poor combo option, slow paced games, ect.) I think people will just have to accept that smash 4 does not have the hype potential to compete with Melee and PM.

 

[brodouble]

ooh a fox fest super exciting

there's way more that happens even in fox dittos than diddy dittos or any match in smash 4. have u ever watched sonic?

 

[Javln Mastr]

I've patiently been waiting for this message since I've joined this wonderful community. The generalization of the Smash games has really tainted the way I look at them e.g Melee is the best competitively, Brawl is the laughing stock etc. Others' opinions don't really affect the way I look at things, since every one of us comes from different places and have different preferences, but it's is ridiculous how these two games are rated on the same plain; their engines and gameplay execution are nothing alike besides them following the Smash formula. This has started to escalate with Sm4sh, and sometimes I don't even know if I'm investing my time well with it, when there is Melee and it's larger following.
That isn't to say I doubt the growth of the metagame, but why is their so many flame wars on the topic of Smash games. Do we see this in Street Fighter or any other big name community? (Seriously, do we?)
It's also hard to grow when there isn't much of a scene in my area (Upper New England) I just went to my first Smash Tourney this past weekend, and it was such a thrilling experience. Unfortunately, the organizers here don't plan on hosting another one for a couple months, but it's so great that we're really trying to expand our community so this won't be an issue.
I just wanted to give my thoughts on the matter. There really are issues we need to address, and it's so inspiring to hear players like Ketchum say these things, and how we can change for the better. We all should love the games we play, and appreciate other games, and respect their dedicated communities.

 

[Javln Mastr]

I'm not going to bother watching the video or reading the comments because I don't think I need to before I ask: what the heck is the point of this thread. All this does is fuel the fire between "lol fox stale meta" and "lol diddy stale meta". Really, this was a terrible idea.

You should read, it's actually pretty insightful. You may see this as starting a flame war, but nothing ever changes without hurdles to jump over. The flame wars will continue regardless if this thread is here, we can all agree with that. I'm not trying to make any judgements, but the way you put it, it sounds like your saying: "We shouldn't try to reach out because it could cause controversy. Just take the safe route and hope for the best." Correct me if I misinterpreted any of what you said though.

 

[SuperGirlKels]

HELL YES :D

 

[Code Bread]

You should read, it's actually pretty insightful. You may see this as starting a flame war, but nothing ever changes without hurdles to jump over. The flame wars will continue regardless if this thread is here, we can all agree with that. I'm not trying to make any judgements, but the way you put it, it sounds like your saying: "We shouldn't try to reach out because it could cause controversy. Just take the safe route and hope for the best." Correct me if I misinterpreted any of what you said though.

That's a total misinterpretation of what I said :/
What I'm saying is more along the lines of "you guys argue like children, present opinions as though they're facts, and any argument that you could possibly come up with in regard to any game has already been beaten to death. Why do you think arguing here is going to actually change anything? There's a reason people are arguing with you: they don't agree with you, and if it's an argument over something as petty as an opinion over a video game, there's no way you're going to dissuade them. All you're doing is contaminating this thread with heated arguments over who's a bigger jackass, which is the exact opposite of the point of this thread: becoming a stronger community (#oneunit ?). Everything you're saying is a waste of time because everyone has already heard it and no one wants to hear it anymore."
Then again, I can see how you would misinterpret that.
But it doesn't matter how many hurdles we jump over as a community. The only thing that will ever change is how sensitive the controversies are and how stale the discussion becomes. The flame wars will in fact continue in or outside of this thread, but for every thread not made that would start a flame war, that's another thread that has prevented people in this community from hating and bashing one another for believing in their opinion.

 

[TheLippyLapras]

They keep trying to make the undeveloped meta its selling point, but the meta is just one and often small part of what makes a good game. Some nerds have a hard time accepting that when someone finds the mechanics and match-ups that the meta is based on completely uninteresting and unengaging, they aren't going to change their minds. People like Kyro need to be permanently banned for perpuating **** talk about games that they aren't obligated to play (and actually are entirely indepted to the older communities that they have existing avenues for competitive play).

People that still call wave dashing a glitch in 2015 need to be permanently banned too.

Screw the Antidotes, we need a full on Full Restore for the toxicity here.

 

[Remobit]

This is just a thing I made to waste your time. Click it if you dare: http://smashboards.com/conversations/warchamp7-and-d1-smash-part-of-wiki.739091/

 

[NoviceSmasher]

there's way more that happens even in fox dittos than diddy dittos or any match in smash 4. have u ever watched sonic?

ye and we have seen this fox dittos intricacies for about 10 years now ,,boring..and you have the audacity to say grabfest,,when melee have chaingrabs and wobbling...lol

 

[Rhubarbo]

No, i think the fact that a mod of an existing game thats had its chance to be in the spotlight for a damn long time does not need to come back into focus while a new game is still being learned

You're original suggestion was basically stop playing PM on purpose so Smash 4 can get more attention. That's now how it works. If PM is more fun and popular for Smash fans who aren't new or bandwagonning (hint, hint, that's the majority of the Smash 4 scene) we're going to play it. If Project M takes away attention from Smash 4's competitive scene, so be it. It's no surprise that a game that is designed to be competitive is more popular in a competitive environment opposed to a game which is designed to not be competitive. That fact matters way more than which game is a mod.

 

[brodouble]

ye and we have seen this fox dittos intricacies for about 10 years now ,,boring..and you have the audacity to say grabfest,,when melee have chaingrabs and wobbling...lol

there's a lot more going on in even the most noobish melee match than an entire 8 min of a pro smash 4 match. and thats bad considering 14 years later the series has actually downgraded.

 

[NoviceSmasher]

there's a lot more going on in even the most noobish melee match than an entire 8 min of a pro smash 4 match. and thats bad considering 14 years later the series has actually downgraded.

ye your right theres alot more button pressing ..smash 4 is all about reading and psychology,,not button pressing

 

[NoviceSmasher]

You're original suggestion was basically stop playing PM on purpose so Smash 4 can get more attention. That's now how it works. If PM is more fun and popular for Smash fans who aren't new or bandwagonning (hint, hint, that's the majority of the Smash 4 scene) we're going to play it. If Project M takes away attention from Smash 4's competitive scene, so be it. It's no surprise that a game that is designed to be competitive is more popular in a competitive environment opposed to a game which is designed to not be competitive. That fact matters way more than which game is a mod.

smash 4 was designed to be competitive to a degree,,for glory was included and they're adding a tourney mode.

 

[PUGS]

The fact that this is even a debate is ridiculous. People are going to to play/watch/support the smash games that they have fun with. Just because a game has the word 'Smash' in its title, does not mean that everyone is going to love it. Because the fact is, THEY ARE EXTREMELY DIFFERENT GAMES. You cannot expect someone to invest time into a game that they do not enjoy.

So many people are involved in the melee scene, because IN THEIR OPINION, melee is the best game. They do not think smash 4 is nearly as enjoyable to play/watch. And to be quite honest, I agree with them. You cannot get mad at someone for having an opinion, and you should not expect the older games to 'retire' to make room for a game that so many view as unenjoyable. That doesn't mean that those who enjoy it can't play both, and it doesn't mean that people should talk mindless crap about the other games. But people are not going to invest time into something they simply do not enjoy.

Before everyone gets butt hurt, I don't even play melee. I only play 64. IN MY OPINION, 64 is extremely competitive with vast creative combos and requires a lot of skill, similar to melee (as shown by players like isai completely dominating other top players with virtually any character). But all I can ask is that people give it a chance. If they do not enjoy it, then I don't expect them to play or support it. Everyone needs to just stop getting salty that their game isn't the biggest, and everyone needs to stop mindlessly talking trash on other games

 

[Engage]

All I have to say is, I'm sick of seeing Melee, and Smash 4 offered me something fresh. I played Brawl competitively due to not being one to "stay in the past, Ohh nostalgia, the game is so faaaast, its like I'm playing Sonic da Hedgehog!" No, I play what appeals to me, Solid Snake in Smash? Melee doesn't and will never have that, thus I moved on to the game with a better roster. It is the same reason i play Smash 4, I do not want to get killed for trying to use a character that is pretty bad in Melee like Young Link, while facing a silly ridiculously good character like Fox. it's why I prefer Smash 4, I can put MASSIVE WORK into learning a character, and beat anyone! (I use Ike a lot, like, A LOT, and have taken down a few of the good Diddy''s over at Smash ladder, as I said, put in the work, no one is a problem.) Now Melee, that is the complete opposite (Do not tell me it's not, I mained Mewtwo my whole Melee experience, it was dreadful. It's why I'm glad he's coming back in the Smash game I play nowadays, Smash 4.) I put in YEARS of work in my Mewtwo, and still got killed terribly by a good Fox / Falco due to their ridiculous gimmicks. It's all based on your own inner thoughts and outer mindset of the game, really. Play whichever you enjoy, but just stay away from the one you don't enjoy. It's pointless. Also, if you have never given Smash 4 a try, MORE THAN TWICE, FOR LONG EXTENDED PERIODS, ENOUGH TO MASTER A CHARACTER AT LEAST. You have not experienced what Smash 4 has to offer, just saying.

 

[NoviceSmasher]

The fact that this is even a debate is ridiculous. People are going to to play/watch/support the smash games that they have fun with. Just because a game has the word 'Smash' in its title, does not mean that everyone is going to love it. Because the fact is, THEY ARE EXTREMELY DIFFERENT GAMES. You cannot expect someone to invest time into a game that they do not enjoy.

So many people are involved in the melee scene, because IN THEIR OPINION, melee is the best game. They do not think smash 4 is nearly as enjoyable to play/watch. And to be quite honest, I agree with them. You cannot get mad at someone for having an opinion, and you should not expect the older games to 'retire' to make room for a game that so many view as unenjoyable. That doesn't mean that those who enjoy it can't play both, and it doesn't mean that people should talk mindless crap about the other games. But people are not going to invest time into something they simply do not enjoy.

Before everyone gets butt hurt, I don't even play melee. I only play 64. IN MY OPINION, 64 is extremely competitive with vast creative combos and requires a lot of skill, similar to melee (as shown by players like isai completely dominating other top players with virtually any character). But all I can ask is that people give it a chance. If they do not enjoy it, then I don't expect them to play or support it. Everyone needs to just stop getting salty that their game isn't the biggest, and everyone needs to stop mindlessly talking trash on other games

but notice this is smash 4 thread and yet there are melee people talkin trash here,,,(nice post btw no sarcasm)

 

[brodouble]

ye your right theres alot more button pressing ..smash 4 is all about reading and psychology,,not button pressing

plz don't exaggerate it. it's really not that great.

also lol @ the people who say the word "toxic" in like every post. apparently none of you have ever been involved in anything competitive. >_>

 

[RanserSSF4]

there's a lot more going on in even the most noobish melee match than an entire 8 min of a pro smash 4 match. and thats bad considering 14 years later the series has actually downgraded.

To be honest, he is right about that. Most of the best characters in Melee have Chaingrabs on most of the cast that are almost impossible to escape unless they guess the DI wrong. Why do you think characters like Marth, Fox, and ICs are top tiers? It's not only because they have better aggressive play or combo game, it's mostly Because of their chaingrabs!

 

[brodouble]

To be honest, he is right about that. Most of the best characters in Melee have Chaingrabs on most of the cast that are almost impossible to escape unless they guess the DI wrong. Why do you think characters like Marth, Fox, and ICs are top tiers? It's not only because they have better aggressive play or combo game, it's mostly Because of their chaingrabs!

and those chaingrabs take way more skill to pull off efficiently than hoo hah or kong cyclone in smash 4.

 

[RanserSSF4]

and those chaingrabs take way more skill to pull off efficiently than hoo hah or kong cyclone in smash 4.

while i do agree with that, i'm just saying that chaingrabs is what makes most of the top tiers very good. if chaingrabs weren't in melee, most of the top tiers wouldn't be as good as they are today! heck, ICs would be bad if it weren't for chaingrabs!

 

[Wintropy]

So I found out recently that Ireland does, in fact, have an official tournament in the form of Road to Hype in Dublin; which, as it happens, a friend of my brother's was lucky enough to attend. This came as something of a pleasant surprise to me, as I didn't realise that such a small country - with a relatively minute competitive scene for Smash 4 - as Ireland partook in this sort of activity. It's inspired me to help seek out similar-minded people in my local community, and to help create a broaded and more organised competitive scene.

My brother, who is currently PRO of his university's gaming society, is helping to organise a country-wide, inter-varsity Smash tournament with various other Irish colleges, with the intent of supporting the game and building a wider community. It's a small step for a tiny country, but I think we're heading in the right direction. This post has helped remind me just how important it is that we come together and work for real progress. We can go far with this community - for all Smash games, not just Smash 4 in particular - if we work together and do our best! :3

 

[IvyDivyHorkyDorky]

I just think Smash 4's characters are more interesting, and that's no slight on Melee, hell it came before, successors come after predecessors! I love all the diversity we have now in character mechanics. Since 2006 we have added fighters who pluck minions, who get stronger with every percent, who changes their attributes on the fly, and one in particular who uses so many mundane items they look like accidents! Smash just keeps getting better and better

 

[BlazingFireOmega]

If don't want use skill combos , techniques go ply chess son it's fine with us, chess is alright.

Yep, chess is fun. Almost nobody can have the same strategy.

 

[Nessafile]

Smash 4 Players are trying so hard to convince everyone that it is a fun and enjoyable to watch (competitive) game. The reality is, you shouldn't have to convinve people that your game is hype and has potential, they should know. I'm sure most melee and PM player have tried Smash 4 and here is the difference, as a Smash 64 player, when i played melee for the first time,i knew melee had potential, same goes for PM, when i played smash 4 for the first time, it was a frustrating experience and everything felt so restrictive(huge landing lag on aerial and no way to reduce it, no shield hitstun, really poor combo option, slow paced games, ect.) I think people will just have to accept that smash 4 does not have the hype potential to compete with Melee and PM.

you are a god

 

[Narpas_sword]

I just think Smash 4's characters are more interesting,

really?

I thought each and every newcomer was scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[jeffreyswindoll]

@juice.Doom Just a suggestion: I think the spreadsheet should include Nintendo Network ID's for practicing with other top smashers via online friend-play.

 

[Javln Mastr]

All you're doing is contaminating this thread with heated arguments over who's a bigger *******, which is the exact opposite of the point of this thread: becoming a stronger community (#oneunit ?). Everything you're saying is a waste of time because everyone has already heard it and no one wants to hear it anymore."
But it doesn't matter how many hurdles we jump over as a community. The only thing that will ever change is how sensitive the controversies are and how stale the discussion becomes. The flame wars will in fact continue in or outside of this thread, but for every thread not made that would start a flame war, that's another thread that has prevented people in this community from hating and bashing one another for believing in their opinion.

1. Okay gotcha. I wasn't sure I was getting your message correctly lol. Believe me, we all know how childish these debates are, and how much it can sully our experience as Smashers. I think I wrote a couple of things erroneously, or oddly in my post, because it seems I didn't get my point across either. Why do you think arguing here is going to actually change anything? There's a reason people are arguing with you: they don't agree with you, and if it's an argument over something as petty as an opinion over a video game, there's no way you're going to dissuade them.
2. I have no intention of arguing with anybody, I don't do it at all in fact. Your comment, to me seemed like how people think in how we should just avoid trying to do anything that anybody disagrees with. Like I said, you came across as saying "Leave it alone and don't feed the fire". That's the worst solution we should do; it doesn't compliment ambition and risk. Everything that's ever happened is because people are motivated to be productive. 100 years ago, you never would have imagined anything like the Civil Rights Movement to come to fruition. (Extreme example, but I digress) Also, you're in no position to say that I, or somebody else can't dissuade anybody; that's a pretty thick accusation.
3. I'm going to disagree with this... This is the kind of toxic ideology we should NOT have. And I did say we should grow as a community, I don't know how you thought I was encouraging the opposite. Why should my words be shunned? Then who are we going to listen to? Yeah people may have heard what I've said before, but what of it? Strength in numbers bud, it's how stuff gets done. I'll put my words out if I want, and you may either use it or toss it- there's literally no harm in expressing yourself, and it's unhealthy for people to bottle it up. I happened to really connect with this bit of news, so I wrote what I thought, 'nuff said. Do you honestly care that much that so many people rage about something in the comments? It's everywhere, not just here, and there will always be a new issue that may irritate us. I was glad to read the many modest replies in this thread, the more provincial speakers aren't gonna dissuade a lot of us from posting or scrolling through the comments.
Then again, I can see how you would misinterpret that.
4. No; if many of us really want to change or promote our game in order to grow, then it can happen. I don't see how the subject can both become more sensitive and stale, to me that sounds like it would become both fresh, and hackneyed, which are mutually exclusive. I don't intend on wasting anymore of your time, so I think I'll end it here, because I don't intend to start a flame war or offend anybody with my keyboard.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Screw the Antidotes, we need a full on Full Restore for the toxicity here.

Or you could put your big girl panties on and say something valid in response to something that is valid instead of taking issue with how it was said. You don't get any intellectual points for misdirecting the topic towards something you don't like. Whine on another forum.