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Smash Wii U Gets a "Call To Arms"

Opossum

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...And in this case, they're cheering for which one they wanted to watch; top 8 in Melee or top 8 in Smash 4. It's no different, your analogy honestly still applies here.
The point is it wasn't a competition. Both were going to be shown regardless. Therefore, there was no need to take away someone else's moment in the limelight because an audience full of man-children couldn't wait a bit longer for their precious game to be shown. It's just wrong. It gives the more respectful Melee fans a bad name, it tarnishes Smash 4's namesake, and quite frankly makes Smash fans over all look bad.



But eh. I'm arguing with someone who defends an act that goes against basic human decency. As it is, this is off topic, so I highly advise you stop.
 

brodouble

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The point is it wasn't a competition. Both were going to be shown regardless. Therefore, there was no need to take away someone else's moment in the limelight because an audience full of man-children couldn't wait a bit longer for their precious game to be shown. It's just wrong. It gives the more respectful Melee fans a bad name, it tarnishes Smash 4's namesake, and quite frankly makes Smash fans over all look bad.



But eh. I'm arguing with someone who defends an act that goes against basic human decency. As it is, this is off topic, so I highly advise you stop.
roflmao trying to use mod powers to shut someone up in an argument. and u call the crowd "man-children"
 

tjdk2

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at the end of the day if we do not get patches (look at the marvel scene it died right after they announced they where no longer patching the game) or if we do not get any more dlc other than mewtwo it will never be as popular as Leauge of Legends
 

BobVance_

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at the end of the day if we do not get patches (look at the marvel scene it died right after they announced they where no longer patching the game) or if we do not get any more dlc other than mewtwo it will never be as popular as Leauge of Legends
Unless they patch in good fighting mechanics, yeah, that could kill the game fo sho
 

the101

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I would agree that Smash 4 should be given more of a chance. I find it amazing as a competitive and casual game. However, I would say that Project M deserves more acknowledgement as well. The fact that it's a mod shouldn't really matter and I don't understand why people are so quick to dismiss it. Actually, I share a similar feeling with how most competitive players treat Smash 4 at face value.
However, it's completely unfair to dismiss Melee. New things are being discovered to this day. Why can't they all exist together? Why do we quarrel over which is better, or which is more viable as a competitive game? Why does it matter who started the debate, be it "hardcore Melee" fans or "Brawl scrubs"? None of this matters. People just need to respect these things and each other.
 

Will-O-Wisp

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You know, people call Melee a fun game to watch, even though it's really, really, ****ing boring due to the game being the same for years. Not to mention the players that play any tournament for any game in general aren't trying to entertain you with accordions and dancing monkeys, they're trying to win. They don't give a rats *** about whether your 6-year-old mind is entertained or not as long as they're winning. There's a reason why space furries are so common in Melee people.
That's just it. Melee hasn't been the same for years, it was a process of developing a meta for over a decade. PPMD won Apex 2015 by going mostly Marth, a character that was thought to be dead, and Shroomed actually beat M2K in Sheik dittos proving that M2K had not achieved the pinnacle of Sheik and that there is more to be found with the character. And of course Amsa is a whole new factor to consider as well.

And you're correct that the players are only concerned about winning, but you can't just ignore spectator value. Hype is what draws in crowds, entrants, and money for TO's, and guess what happens if a game has no hype value whatsoever: it gets shafted. Look at Brawl. Compared to the other games before it, it lasted the least amount of time; even 64 is still stronger than Brawl now. The instant that Brawl's "new game novelty" wore off, people got bored of it and it's viewership on streams and tourney attendance plummeted. TO's and sponsors don't give a rats ass about players and their aspirations, they want money, and if Smash 4 stops bringing it, then there are no longer tourneys to win. So yes, spectator value is a concern.
 

Opossum

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roflmao trying to use mod powers to shut someone up in an argument. and u call the crowd "man-children"
I'm trying to veer the post back to the topic at hand.

Not that you're being much help with that.
 

Soft Serve

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This whole comment section seems to have misunderstood the OP completely. Its not about the whole smash community dropping all games but Smash 4 to give it a chance and bolster the games scene. Its about smash 4 players stepping up and supporting their own game. A general Apathy for the game and its state is what ultimately killed brawl. You can blame Melee's resurgence, but people just stop caring and supporting the game, and it died, except for a few pockets of players that still cared enough to play it.

Melee players are organized, and have the fundamental structure of TO's, organizations, stuff like MIOM, to thrive. Its both grassroots at the core, while still cooexisting with "E-sports." Even if esports drops smash as a whole we will be fine, because the scene cares about the game enough to just want to play it and run events for it.

the PM scene is in a very similar or even worse situation than Smash 4 is, and its still fine. We took a hit with the loss of VGBC, we lost some support. So we stepped it up and started running, streaming, and playing the game for our selves. Just this weekend there were at least 4 PM regional/national tournaments. We're becoming self sufficient, because thats the game we want to play, so we are supporting it.

The point of the OP is that the Smash 4 community needs to step up and follow the patterns set by the other scenes. You can do it, the player base needs to want it enough. Theres no point in whining about the other smash scenes not directly supporting it, just get off your ass and do it yourself. I know a lot of the scene is very young age wise and it can be hard, but that doesn't stop young PM players or young Melee players. Fresh blood dedicated to the game is what the scene needs to survive. Become self sufficient, have a passion for your game, build the grassroots needed to exist without "esports" and you'll be fine.

Also drop this "13 year old game, its stale let it die" ****. Soccer is an old game, I don't see a reason to stop playing it in favor of something new. People will play what they enjoy playing, they will watch what they enjoy watching. Saying Melee players are just stubborn old men who can't get over the past is incredibly ignorant, and really shows your true colors. I KNOW most of the smash 4 scene doesn't really believe things like that, just like how the large majority of melee players are completely indifferent towards smash 4. Judging whole communities based on vocal minorities isn't healthy.

just my two cents.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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This whole comment section seems to have misunderstood the OP completely. Its not about the whole smash community dropping all games but Smash 4 to give it a chance and bolster the games scene. Its about smash 4 players stepping up and supporting their own game. A general Apathy for the game and its state is what ultimately killed brawl. You can blame Melee's resurgence, but people just stop caring and supporting the game, and it died, except for a few pockets of players that still cared enough to play it.

Melee players are organized, and have the fundamental structure of TO's, organizations, stuff like MIOM, to thrive. Its both grassroots at the core, while still cooexisting with "E-sports." Even if esports drops smash as a whole we will be fine, because the scene cares about the game enough to just want to play it and run events for it.

the PM scene is in a very similar or even worse situation than Smash 4 is, and its still fine. We took a hit with the loss of VGBC, we lost some support. So we stepped it up and started running, streaming, and playing the game for our selves. Just this weekend there were at least 4 PM regional/national tournaments. We're becoming self sufficient, because thats the game we want to play, so we are supporting it.

The point of the OP is that the Smash 4 community needs to step up and follow the patterns set by the other scenes. You can do it, the player base needs to want it enough. Theres no point in whining about the other smash scenes not directly supporting it, just get off your *** and do it yourself. I know a lot of the scene is very young age wise and it can be hard, but that doesn't stop young PM players or young Melee players. Fresh blood dedicated to the game is what the scene needs to survive. Become self sufficient, have a passion for your game, build the grassroots needed to exist without "esports" and you'll be fine.

Also drop this "13 year old game, its stale let it die" ****. Soccer is an old game, I don't see a reason to stop playing it in favor of something new. People will play what they enjoy playing, they will watch what they enjoy watching. Saying Melee players are just stubborn old men who can't get over the past is incredibly ignorant, and really shows your true colors. I KNOW most of the smash 4 scene doesn't really believe things like that, just like how the large majority of melee players are completely indifferent towards smash 4. Judging whole communities based on vocal minorities isn't healthy.

just my two cents.
Melee players also booed off smash 4 too
 

KyroChao

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@ Opossum Opossum
Again, my greatest apologies to having started this whole thing with my jab(in the first post even haha)

I already posted my final thoughts though so i'll leave it at that
 

Soul.

 
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I would really like it if we could get along instead of arguing. But alas.
Oh well.
 

Cr@zy &nger

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It's time to improve the competitive scene for this game, HERE'S TO THE COMPETITIVE SCENE OF SUPER SMASH BROS FOR WII U!!!
 

Soft Serve

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Melee players also booed off smash 4 too
*cough* vocal minorities *cough*

Also that doesn't really have much to do with the own scene supporting itself. Melee doesn't/didn't die because a majority of the rest of the FGC players still don't consider it a real fighting game.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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*cough* vocal minorities *cough*

Also that doesn't really have much to do with the own scene supporting itself. Melee doesn't/didn't die because a majority of the rest of the FGC players still don't consider it a real fighting game.
It didnt die, yeah but it sure didnt help their image

I'll say this: You kids quit being trigged at the word Smash 4.
I swear, sometimes I wonder.
 
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JustDan

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This whole comment section seems to have misunderstood the OP completely. Its not about the whole smash community dropping all games but Smash 4 to give it a chance and bolster the games scene. Its about smash 4 players stepping up and supporting their own game. A general Apathy for the game and its state is what ultimately killed brawl. You can blame Melee's resurgence, but people just stop caring and supporting the game, and it died, except for a few pockets of players that still cared enough to play it.

Melee players are organized, and have the fundamental structure of TO's, organizations, stuff like MIOM, to thrive. Its both grassroots at the core, while still cooexisting with "E-sports." Even if esports drops smash as a whole we will be fine, because the scene cares about the game enough to just want to play it and run events for it.

the PM scene is in a very similar or even worse situation than Smash 4 is, and its still fine. We took a hit with the loss of VGBC, we lost some support. So we stepped it up and started running, streaming, and playing the game for our selves. Just this weekend there were at least 4 PM regional/national tournaments. We're becoming self sufficient, because thats the game we want to play, so we are supporting it.

The point of the OP is that the Smash 4 community needs to step up and follow the patterns set by the other scenes. You can do it, the player base needs to want it enough. Theres no point in whining about the other smash scenes not directly supporting it, just get off your *** and do it yourself. I know a lot of the scene is very young age wise and it can be hard, but that doesn't stop young PM players or young Melee players. Fresh blood dedicated to the game is what the scene needs to survive. Become self sufficient, have a passion for your game, build the grassroots needed to exist without "esports" and you'll be fine.

Also drop this "13 year old game, its stale let it die" ****. Soccer is an old game, I don't see a reason to stop playing it in favor of something new. People will play what they enjoy playing, they will watch what they enjoy watching. Saying Melee players are just stubborn old men who can't get over the past is incredibly ignorant, and really shows your true colors. I KNOW most of the smash 4 scene doesn't really believe things like that, just like how the large majority of melee players are completely indifferent towards smash 4. Judging whole communities based on vocal minorities isn't healthy.

just my two cents.
This is brilliant. This is exactly what needs to happen.
 

Jaedrik

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Unfortunately, if it doesn't happen, many will direct their ire towards the rest of the community, and blame them rather than blame themselves. That's the thing to fear. It'll just breed more strife.
The natural merit of a game will be reflected by the passion of the community. Let things go as they will.
 
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brodouble

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also i know it's been mentioned but viewers is incredibly important to keeping the scene alive. therefore if Smash 4 is putting it's viewers to sleep, that's not a good sign.
 

Soft Serve

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It didnt die, yeah but it sure didnt help their image

I'll say this: You kids quit being trigged at the word Smash 4.
I swear, sometimes I wonder.
my god why are you being so toxic lol. Have you been instigating everything in the comment section? I'm not going to fall for this bait, although people will definitely bite. Have fun I guess
 

Space Stranger

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>Article calls for Smash 4 Community to unite to build presence
>People find ways to start pointless arguments

 

◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ

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Aside from joining together to become self-sufficient and stop pointing the finger at others, the main thing we need to do is take a note from the Japanese and not play this game like it's Brawl. It's not Brawl, so quite logically, it shouldn't be played like it. It's honestly hurting it as a spectator sport, which in turn hurts the game's image.

Instead, we collectively need to adapt to the game's new mechanics and build from there. There are even lengthy combos capable of being performed that I never see anyone do outside of Japan, and it's quite frustrating really.
 
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Sideslick

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He said give them a break for a bit, not bury them.
Just give it a chance. This game already has the potential, we shouldn't shun it or put it on the wayside.
Don't take that the wrong way, I love every Smash game, both casually and competitively.
I'm just saying we shouldn't give Melee more attention and possibly kill another different, but just as good, entry in the series before its prime.
I thought he was "um, no"-ing the idea of tier-lists, because if someone can wreck with Dr. Mario, I say let them wreck with Dr. Mario.

I mean, that's why I liked his post.

Tier lists can be a VERY divisive-subject. I can understand why someone would be against them.

On the topic of letting Smash 4 take a front-seat in the scene for a while, I absolutely agree.
 

JCOnyx

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Bottom line is, no supporter of any game in the series should be forced to "take a break" so the meta of the newest game can improve. That's not how the smash community works.

We play the games that we love to play and watch them when we have the chance. Our local weeklies literally have every game but Brawl being played all in the same room. What other fighting game communities can come close to that?

I don't care about "esports" or anything else of the like. I'll continue to enter the events I want to enter. And that just so happens to be PM and Smash 4. So whatever, if Smash 4 doesn't work out, I guess the brackets I enter will be smaller than they are now. No big deal.

For the past year I've been entering tournaments and it's been some of the most fun I've had in a really really long time. I see no reason for his whole "esports" movement to even become a thing. It's only been negatively impacting the community from my perspective, so please keep it far far away.
 

JustDan

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Bottom line is, no supporter of any game in the series should be forced to "take a break" so the meta of the newest game can improve. That's not how the smash community works.

We play the games that we love to play and watch them when we have the chance. Our local weeklies literally have every game but Brawl being played all in the same room. What other fighting game communities can come close to that?

I don't care about "esports" or anything else of the like. I'll continue to enter the events I want to enter. And that just so happens to be PM and Smash 4. So whatever, if Smash 4 doesn't work out, I guess the brackets I enter will be smaller than they are now. No big deal.

For the past year I've been entering tournaments and it's been some of the most fun I've had in a really really long time. I see no reason for his whole "esports" movement to even become a thing. It's only been negatively impacting the community from my perspective, so please keep it far far away.
This is a great mindset to have and I am glad you are supporting the game you love.
 

Tino

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Of all the pointless arguments I've been seeing since joining Smashboards...can we all just kiss and make up?
 

Zethoro

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I thought he was "um, no"-ing the idea of tier-lists, because if someone can wreck with Dr. Mario, I say let them wreck with Dr. Mario.

I mean, that's why I liked his post.

Tier lists can be a VERY divisive-subject. I can understand why someone would be against them.

On the topic of letting Smash 4 take a front-seat in the scene for a while, I absolutely agree.
Tier lists should never decide who you use regardless. If you can wreck with Dr. mario, go right ahead. If there's tiers, people will start calling you the next Amsa. If not, you're perscribing cyanide to everyone anyway. Cool.
 

Ultresmasher5

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Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, Brawl Minus, Project M and Smash 4 are all separate games with separate fans that play in separate ways, and that's that.
 

Xermo

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Plus, project m has had much longer to be learned, less character TO learn, and mechanics from melee that are transferred over to it.
P:M had a good year to develop meta between 2.6 and 3.0 and another between 3.5. What happens each time a new patch arrives? We start over, from the beginning. Melee mechanics don't make a meta.
 

Yoshi Kirishima

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@ KyroChao KyroChao You really neglect what a hypocrite you are.

I can turn everything you have said around:

you can only watch Diddies and people timing out matches for so long.

No, i think the fact that a sequel of an existing series thats had its chance to be in the spotlight for a damn long time does not need to come back into focus while a new mod is still being learned.

CONGRATULATIONS
you have become a Smash 4 elitist, the Melee elitist's equally toxic counterpart.
You're a fool. You actually can NOT turn everything he said around, because he said those things to show that his opposing arguer's points could be turned around.

You can't turn around something that's turning around something else. You're only proving and agreeing with KyroChao here.

Congratulations you have completely missed the point!
 
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D

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Im here for the salt, come on, give it to me

When people see the words Smash 4, They get triggered.
They get Triggered so hard that the Japanese animation company Studio Trigger, would animate their lives
What about Chrono Trigger?

-

I don't get why people are against Smash 4. We should accept it as its own game.
 

Wolf_

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HOO-HAH
Nah jk

Its so true that its time to take the next step. Imo: we need to give PM and melee a break for a bit, and take time to learn the new game, establish a strong official tier list, learn the mechanics and so on.
no thank you, let people play what they want
 

Lizalfos

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The main thing we need to do is take a note from the Japanese and not play this game like it's Brawl. It's not Brawl, so quite logically, it shouldn't be played like it.

Instead, we collectively need to adapt to the game's new mechanics and build from there. There are even lengthy combos capable of being performed that I never see anyone do outside of Japan, and it's quite frustrating really.
We need to play the game like we are from Chile :p
 

Fancy

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While I personally prefer Melee of Sm4sh, I definitely don't want to see it die so soon. If your into sm4sh, then you should definitely explore it's Meta. I don't think we should stop playing the other games though, if you're not interested in sm4sh then you don't have to play it. Just don't stop the game's scene or disrespect it.
 

ph00tbag

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My two cents: SmashU needs more HOO HAH.

Why? It's stupid and pointless, obnoxious as hell, and it emphasizes a relatively boring and simple combo over all of the game's depth and strategy. What's the big deal?

Well, go back and watch the Wombo Combo. Don't bother watching what's happening in the game; just listen to what people are saying. It's ****ing insipid. I mean, what the hell is even the relationship between anything that's said? "My **** hurts!"? What are we? 13? Wombo Combo is a really friggin' stupid thing, and then when you watch the combo without audio, it's hard to tell what people are even getting all atwitter about. It's a pretty standard grab-lock team combo. It's not particularly difficult, up until the reaction knee at the end.

But that the Wombo Combo is a watershed moment for Melee is not even a matter up for debate at this point. It showed the world not what Melee was at its most sublime, but what it meant to the people who loved it. It makes them giddy, it makes them incoherent and bug-eyed, even for the little things. Three months later, the first RoM was meant to be a last hurrah for a dead game, but that's when it became apparent that people were still paying attention. But it wasn't because the game was good, it was because it was clear there was a community that loved this game and embraced it, flaws and all (regardless of whether you think Melee's good or not, this statement holds). Wombo Combo was pivotal in establishing that love.

HOO HAH! is a phenomenon. Full disclosure, I am something of a Melee Elitist. I have a pretty strong opinion that, all told, Melee is a better game, and I honestly have a difficult time sitting through most SmashU games. That's not really here nor there. When I watch a Diddy Kong match, watching for the grab so I can shout, "HOO! HAH!" keeps me engaged, and I enjoy the entire match, regardless of how long it takes. Shouting like that, I can feel at least a comprehension of the love a SmashU player should feel for the game. It's through this kind of participatory, unqualified adulation for the game, that people who do not understand the game come to appreciate it. And with that, viewer base will grow, and with a larger viewer base, a larger player base will come.

Max is right. You need to love this game, and show it. If SmashU fails, it won't be because Melee elitists like myself killed it. That gives us waaaaay too much credit (and to tell you the truth, there are many such people who would be all too happy to believe it if that's what you said). What will kill it is if you don't love the game, more importantly if you don't love the parts of the game that are stupid and broken, and if you don't love those parts more than the parts that play as intended. What will kill it is if we can tell you don't love the game. So love it. And convince the world you love it. But above all, in the words of President Snow, "convince me."

And for Celestia's sake if there's a character as broken as Metaknight, just ban him now. (Diddy's not that broken.)
 
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