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Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

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Nekoo

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I mean that's...not my point, but the /s is throwing me off so I'm just gonna flash a thumbs up
What I jokingly said was that Wario/Yoshi And such deviated from Mario enough to still be same universe but their own identity.
The problem with Geno would be thaaat... Is he considered as a Mario Characters? The two games he's in are Mario game without any deviation of sort, spin-off or not.
So by Technicality he should be a Mario Characters...

That's my only problem with Geno, and hopefully the Music theory can be wrong and let him in, or he can get his own Icon.
Maybe a power Star?
 

Noipoi

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We've talked about this in the Geno thread but, aside from the possibility of Super Mario RPG getting its own symbol (which would be dumb but would make sense given Geno's Mii costume reveal), there's also a chance that any SMRPG music could be straight rips and no remixes ala Cloud (which would be a crying shame especially with Shimomura being a Smash staple since Brawl and still the head composer for Mario RPG games after 22 years).
No Mario rpg remixes would be a travesty.
 

dezeray112

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http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Incineroar
  • Rayman
  • Bandana Dee
  • Tamagon
Echoes:
  • Ken
  • Shadow
  • Ninten
  • Medusa
  • Dixie Kong
5 New Stages:
  • Pokefloats 2
  • Mercury Lighthouse
  • Devil's World Stage
  • Rayman Stage
  • Forest Maze
DLC:
  • Sora
  • Elma
  • Springman
  • Ayumi Tachibana
Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.
Seems like this one forgot to add any Minecraft content.
 

SonicMario

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IPartially because frontloading all the fighters so much feels odd to me, but moreso because they created an entirely new toggle feature just for echoes. I find it hard to believe that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, Ken, Lucina, and Dark Pit are the only characters it was made for - two of which being returning characters who were retroactively made echoes. Especially when we have characters like Raichu, Ms. Pac-Man, and Black Shadow/Blood Falcon who would be easy echo candidates.
What if they first wanted to weigh the fanbase's reaction to Echoes and put some in consideration for later in the case that we still don't like them like we have with Dark Pit?

I do think the response to them is now positive enough that DLC Echoes may indeed happen. But they wouldn't know yet. And I don't know about you, but 7 (5 New) is a fine enough base game echo number if need be IMO. I'll take more if there is. But I don't think 7 is a small number of echoes really.
 

Luigi The President

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I'm prefacing this by saying I don't own a Nintendo Switch. I am by no means a Nintendo fangirl, I'm just here because I like the Smash franchise. By the time I do get one (for Smash, of course), there will likely be a fair amount of DLC out. Which means that I'm totally indifferent to how much characters there are in the base roster. If it turned out there were only two fighters left, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

With that out of the way, I find it hard to believe the box theory. Partially because frontloading all the fighters so much feels odd to me, but moreso because they created an entirely new toggle feature just for echoes. I find it hard to believe that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, Ken, Lucina, and Dark Pit are the only characters it was made for - two of which being returning characters who were retroactively made echoes. Especially when we have characters like Raichu, Ms. Pac-Man, and Black Shadow/Blood Falcon who would be easy echo candidates.
I've been trying to express this far too long but didn't know how. Thank you!

What I jokingly said was that Wario/Yoshi And such deviated from Mario enough to still be same universe but their own identity.
The problem with Geno would be thaaat... Is he considered as a Mario Characters? The two games he's in are Mario game without any deviation of sort, spin-off or not.
So by Technicality he should be a Mario Characters...

That's my only problem with Geno, and hopefully the Music theory can be wrong and let him in, or he can get his own Icon.
Maybe a power Star?
Well he's also a third party character so by technicality, he isn't a Mario character.
Makes ya think.
 

Fatmanonice

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No Mario rpg remixes would be a travesty.
Oh, no doubt but after seeing them take a look at Final Fantasy VII's soundtrack, agreed by many to Nobou Umetsu's Magnum opus, not once, but TWICE and then pick only two straight rips and then say "naaaaah, we're good" to remixing either makes me not too terribly optimistic. I'm kinda seeing them yoinking Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and then calling it a day.
 

Shroob

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I'm prefacing this by saying I don't own a Nintendo Switch. I am by no means a Nintendo fangirl, I'm just here because I like the Smash franchise. By the time I do get one (for Smash, of course), there will likely be a fair amount of DLC out. Which means that I'm totally indifferent to how much characters there are in the base roster. If it turned out there were only two fighters left, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

With that out of the way, I find it hard to believe the box theory. Partially because frontloading all the fighters so much feels odd to me, but moreso because they created an entirely new toggle feature just for echoes. I find it hard to believe that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, Ken, Lucina, and Dark Pit are the only characters it was made for - two of which being returning characters who were retroactively made echoes. Especially when we have characters like Raichu, Ms. Pac-Man, and Black Shadow/Blood Falcon who would be easy echo candidates.
Is it really 'that' odd though?


With just those 7, that's about 10% of the roster being Echo fighters, and that's not even saying the potential for future DLC.


I think 10% of the roster being more or less 1:1 clones IS pretty big.
 

FalconFire93

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http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Incineroar
  • Rayman
  • Bandana Dee
  • Tamagon
Echoes:
  • Ken
  • Shadow
  • Ninten
  • Medusa
  • Dixie Kong
5 New Stages:
  • Pokefloats 2
  • Mercury Lighthouse
  • Devil's World Stage
  • Rayman Stage
  • Forest Maze
DLC:
  • Sora
  • Elma
  • Springman
  • Ayumi Tachibana
Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.


I want to believe, but seeing Tamagon on the list makes me question it just a little bit.
 
D

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I've been trying to express this far too long but didn't know how. Thank you!


Well he's also a third party character so by technicality, he isn't a Mario character.
Makes ya think.
The only problem with that is that he was in a Mario game. Plus, he was a party member in that Mario game with Mario being the lead. Giving him his own series distinction doesn't really make a lot of sense to me...
 

Paperchampion23

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I'm prefacing this by saying I don't own a Nintendo Switch. I am by no means a Nintendo fangirl, I'm just here because I like the Smash franchise. By the time I do get one (for Smash, of course), there will likely be a fair amount of DLC out. Which means that I'm totally indifferent to how much characters there are in the base roster. If it turned out there were only two fighters left, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

With that out of the way, I find it hard to believe the box theory. Partially because frontloading all the fighters so much feels odd to me, but moreso because they created an entirely new toggle feature just for echoes. I find it hard to believe that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, Ken, Lucina, and Dark Pit are the only characters it was made for - two of which being returning characters who were retroactively made echoes. Especially when we have characters like Raichu, Ms. Pac-Man, and Black Shadow/Blood Falcon who would be easy echo candidates.
This. 7 characters seems like way too small a number to introduce a toggle like this, especially when the roster itself is nearly clearing 70 unique characters without them. Like Melee had 26 characters, and 7 of them were "clones" (Over 20% of the roster much less differentiated than they are now).

My point is it doesn't change the CSS that much at all by introducing the toggle if its only 7 echo fighters. Just my opinion though, it may be exactly that, but I doubt it.
 

RandomAce

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I'd just find it weird that Nintendo only managed to add 1 new 1st party franchise (Splatoon) to Smash if this is the case. They don't have TOO many more, but like they still have:

-Chibi Robo
-Custom Robo (RIP though with them dropping the series trademark apparently)
-Sin and Punishment (RIP I guess?)
-Golden Sun (Renewed Trademark 3 years early is a good sign)
-Rhythm Heaven (Renewed Trademark may be a good sign)
-Advance Wars
-ARMS (may be too new for a rep atm)
-More I'm probably forgetting.

Of those, people expect Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven to finally actually get reps this time. That's were I'm placing my money on (at least concerning more 1st party franchises getting reps)
Sin and Punishment has been trademarked this year too, so Nintendo still seems to be holding onto the franchise.

But yeah, Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven seem to be the two most likely new franchises to be added, and it’s kinda crazy to think that one of those is currently in a 8+ year hiatus.
 
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Misery Brick

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http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Incineroar
  • Rayman
  • Bandana Dee
  • Tamagon
Echoes:
  • Ken
  • Shadow
  • Ninten
  • Medusa
  • Dixie Kong
5 New Stages:
  • Pokefloats 2
  • Mercury Lighthouse
  • Devil's World Stage
  • Rayman Stage
  • Forest Maze
DLC:
  • Sora
  • Elma
  • Springman
  • Ayumi Tachibana
Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.
I'm going out on a limb and say that this leak is fake.
According to Sakurai, they don't work on DLC before the game goes gold and, even if, I seriously doubt someone would even know that many characters ahead of schedule.
Especially considering how far out we are from actual release.
Tamagon would be interesting though.
(Also this is personal opinion, but Poké Floats 2 I feel is just a wish list pick, so I immediately doubted it. Especially since Poké Floats was a throwaway stage for Melee with Stadium models.)
 
Last edited:

Luigi The President

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The only problem with that is that he was in a Mario game. Plus, he was a party member in that Mario game with Mario being the lead. Giving him his own series distinction doesn't really make a lot of sense to me...
But he's a third party.
We can go around about this all day. Both point sstand.
 
D

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Food for thought, but the last two Smash centered presentations revealed exactly three Echos. It's not unreasonable to think that if Ken is one, he'll come with two more. Seeing as Echos don't really get a lot of fanfare, saving only one of them for last is super weird, IMO.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Incineroar
  • Rayman
  • Bandana Dee
  • Tamagon
Echoes:
  • Ken
  • Shadow
  • Ninten
  • Medusa
  • Dixie Kong
5 New Stages:
  • Pokefloats 2
  • Mercury Lighthouse
  • Devil's World Stage
  • Rayman Stage
  • Forest Maze
DLC:
  • Sora
  • Elma
  • Springman
  • Ayumi Tachibana
Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.
Devil's World Stage? lol Nope. It's a fake
Though points for Ayumi and Elma
 

Noipoi

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Geno's third party, but in my opinion Geno getting in would be more like coming home after a while than being a guest.
Thematically, at least.
 
Last edited:

FalconFire93

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What are Donkey Kong Juniors chances?
I’m not exactly sure about Donkey Kong Junior’s chances, but for me, he’d make a great Retro Rep along with Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, Excitebiker, or even Stanley the Bugman from Donkey Kong 3. :)
 
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Fatmanonice

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Geno hits this weird sweet spot where he's owned by Square Enix but falls under the categories of a third party, a Mario, and retro character because he's currently older than what Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit, and ROB when they first came into Smash. Aside from making me feel old as all hell, it is a pretty interesting distinction because, if he did get in, it'd be 95% because of his longevity in the Smash Community (about 13 years but, hey, who's counting) and 5% because Sakurai asked Square and they said okee-dokee.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Food for thought, but the last two Smash centered presentations revealed exactly three Echos. It's not unreasonable to think that if Ken is one, he'll come with two more. Seeing as Echos don't really get a lot of fanfare, saving only one of them for last is super weird, IMO.
Ken, Shadow, and Roxas.

This is happening boys.
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Incineroar
  • Rayman
  • Bandana Dee
  • Tamagon
Echoes:
  • Ken
  • Shadow
  • Ninten
  • Medusa
  • Dixie Kong
5 New Stages:
  • Pokefloats 2
  • Mercury Lighthouse
  • Devil's World Stage
  • Rayman Stage
  • Forest Maze
DLC:
  • Sora
  • Elma
  • Springman
  • Ayumi Tachibana
Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.
>Elma as DLC instead of Rex and Pyra

Might as well say Big Maring is coming out this year too.
Sin and Punishment has been trademarked this year too, so Nintendo still seems to be holding onto the franchise.

But yeah, Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven seem to be the two most likely new franchises to be added, and it’s kinda crazy to think that one of those is currently in a 8+ year hiatus.
On that note, every time I see the front page I see that the Custom Robo trademark was canceled and that makes me sad. A Custom Robo game for Switch would've been perfect, especially considering that local multiplayer could've been an actual focus. Nintendo also could've done something like Starlink where you have an actual robot amiibo that you add on parts to, and parts are like $5 bucks. They could've done tournaments, and all this cool stuff.

But alas, that is only a dream. ;(
 

FalconFire93

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I'd be totally down for Tamagon in Smash
I wouldn’t mind Tamagon being in Smash either, though I’ve never played Devil World (Demon World in some parts of the world), maybe there could also be a chance that the game he’s from would finally see a US release in order to promote him and might be a longshot, but still would pretty cool to see. :)
 
D

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Ken, Shadow, and Roxas.

This is happening boys.
Not gonna lie, I'd be super down with that. I may not like Ken, but Shadow and especially Roxas would be hype and make me really conflicted if Dark Samus is gonna be the Echo I main or not, lol.
 

TeenGirlSquad

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Food for thought, but the last two Smash centered presentations revealed exactly three Echos. It's not unreasonable to think that if Ken is one, he'll come with two more. Seeing as Echos don't really get a lot of fanfare, saving only one of them for last is super weird, IMO.
I think the point when box theory will be officially "debunked" is when we get Incineroar as a one-off reveal like Isabelle, without Ken, and people realize that the final Smash direct is going to show off more than a single echo.
 
D

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Ken, Shadow, and Roxas.

This is happening boys.
Roxas would be another Richter for me as I like his design more than Sora and he would be another "never would have happened under other circumstances" kind of character that's the main reason I love Richter so much.
So yeah, I say let's get Roxas
 

T3Z3R1

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There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Incineroar
  • Rayman
  • Bandana Dee
  • Tamagon
Echoes:
  • Ken
  • Shadow
  • Ninten
  • Medusa
  • Dixie Kong
5 New Stages:
  • Pokefloats 2
  • Mercury Lighthouse
  • Devil's World Stage
  • Rayman Stage
  • Forest Maze
DLC:
  • Sora
  • Elma
  • Springman
  • Ayumi Tachibana
Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.
>Tamagon

Already, this leak is fake because it's from Japanese video game series that wasn't released in NA.
 
Last edited:

SonicMario

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Food for thought, but the last two Smash centered presentations revealed exactly three Echos. It's not unreasonable to think that if Ken is one, he'll come with two more. Seeing as Echos don't really get a lot of fanfare, saving only one of them for last is super weird, IMO.
We only got one back in E3 (Daisy). It's decently possible the Smash direct character-wise dials it back to the E3 direct character total which is why Ken + Incineroar being it for the base game is still on the table until then. There's still alot we actually don't know about the game. Beyond Spirits which will no doubt have a significant portion dedicated to it, we still don't exactly know the exact details about the Mii Fighters and their custom specials, nor have we seen a single Mii Fighter costume besides the default ones. And of course there's the other modes that have commonly been a part of the franchise. What's our enemy team in this game? How about trophies? How will targets be done will they be the same Angry Birds style like in Smash 4 or perhaps more like Brawl where there's multiple stages for each character? (It'd be too much to ask for a target test for each and every character like in 64 and Melee), there's so much we don't know when you really think about it.

And that's why it's still kind of plausible there could be only two base game characters to reveal. I've started to try not to take the box as gospel at least a little. But I'm still keeping it in the back of my mind until something breaks either through a legitimate leak or we get a character that contradicts it in the direct itself. I'll be relieved as much as most of you will be if there is more. But still, keeping expectations low is a good way to be safe here.
 

Chrono.

...
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We only got one back in E3 (Daisy). It's decently possible the Smash direct character-wise dials it back to the E3 direct character total which is why Ken + Incineroar being it for the base game is still on the table until then. There's still alot we actually don't know about the game. Beyond Spirits which will no doubt have a significant portion dedicated to it, we still don't exactly know the exact details about the Mii Fighters and their custom specials, nor have we seen a single Mii Fighter costume besides the default ones. And of course there's the other modes that have commonly been a part of the franchise. What's our enemy team in this game? How about trophies? How will targets be done will they be the same Angry Birds style like in Smash 4 or perhaps more like Brawl where there's multiple stages for each character? (It'd be too much to ask for a target test for each and every character like in 64 and Melee), there's so much we don't know when you really think about it.

And that's why it's still kind of plausible there could be only two base game characters to reveal. I've started to try not to take the box as gospel at least a little. But I'm still keeping it in the back of my mind until something breaks either through a legitimate leak or we get a character that contradicts it in the direct itself. I'll be relieved as much as most of you will be if there is more. But still, keeping expectations low is a good way to be safe here.
I think he's counting Dark Pit and Lucina alongside Daisy. Which is fair enough, I'd say.
 

Fatmanonice

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The thing about copyright renewals is that companies have to do them or those properties become public domain, where any idiot can do whatever they want with them ala Alice in Wonderland. The only thing unusual to come out of these recent renewals was that Golden Sun was renewed two years earlier than it's deadline for some reason. Otherwise, it's very routine legal stuff.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
We only got one back in E3 (Daisy). It's decently possible the Smash direct character-wise dials it back to the E3 direct character total which is why Ken + Incineroar being it for the base game is still on the table until then. There's still alot we actually don't know about the game. Beyond Spirits which will no doubt have a significant portion dedicated to it, we still don't exactly know the exact details about the Mii Fighters and their custom specials, nor have we seen a single Mii Fighter costume besides the default ones. And of course there's the other modes that have commonly been a part of the franchise. What's our enemy team in this game? How about trophies? How will targets be done will they be the same Angry Birds style like in Smash 4 or perhaps more like Brawl where there's multiple stages for each character? (It'd be too much to ask for a target test for each and every character like in 64 and Melee), there's so much we don't know when you really think about it.

And that's why it's still kind of plausible there could be only two base game characters to reveal. I've started to try not to take the box as gospel at least a little. But I'm still keeping it in the back of my mind until something breaks either through a legitimate leak or we get a character that contradicts it in the direct itself. I'll be relieved as much as most of you will be if there is more. But still, keeping expectations low is a good way to be safe here.
Lucina and Dark Pit were revealed to come back as a part of "Everyone is Here!" and were rebranded as Echos, so that's why I was counting them.

I agree about low expectations. The box isn't the end all be all, but on the other hand I highly doubt Sakurai has 5 or more unique newcomers sitting in the back when we're two months 'till release. Time will tell, I suppose.
 

Momotsuki

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I hope that if Geno gets in Smash it might inspire Nintendo and/or Square to do something with him again. Maybe, like K. Rool, they didn't know he was so loved until the ballot? I'm aware Sakurai expressed desire for Geno, but that was more personal preference than much else.
 

domriver

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I hope that if Geno gets in Smash it might inspire Nintendo and/or Square to do something with him again. Maybe, like K. Rool, they didn't know he was so loved until the ballot? I'm aware Sakurai expressed desire for Geno, but that was more personal preference than much else.
I hope so as well. a Re-make of Super Mario RPG for the switch would be a wet dream.
 

Nintrendo

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Okay, answer this then: if Nomura has the final say, why was Sora an LTO DLC in the World of Final Fantasy, a game not only developed by Square Enix but where Nomura was one of the leading designers? Sora was available from January 24th to March 31st, 2017. If Nomura had the main say, why did this happen? The answer is simple: that's all Disney allowed. This is also important because it's a rare case of DLC not simply having a price increase after a certain time period but flat out being gone and unavailable to anyone else after an incredibly short amount of time.

It should also be noted that this is currently the only example of DLC we have specifically for Sora and that there's is nothing to go against the evidence presented here. Yeah, Disney can say they give Nomura creative control *wink wink* in the same sense that you let your dog "explore" your backyard.
Nomura was the one who pulled it as sora was promotion for 2.8
 

Momotsuki

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I hope so as well. a Re-make of Super Mario RPG for the switch would be a wet dream.
I'd even be head over heels for Square tossing him in a PS4 game or something, assuming they're within their rights to do so as long as they don't reference his origins.
 
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