Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Luigi The President]

I still stand by my belief that Shadow isn't getting in.... to the base roster.



I really think they'll save him as sort of a package deal with Tails as a DLC newcomer and Shadow as a DLC Echo.



Like, we have Luigi to Mario, Diddy to Donkey, and now Ken to Ryu, and we're not gonna have Tails to Sonic?

People keep saying this. Sonic's been in for 2 games now. Can't help but get the feeling that if Sakurai really cared about this pattern he'd have added him already.

 

[Shroob]

People keep saying this. Sonic's been in for 2 games now. Can't help but get the feeling that if Sakurai really cared about this pattern he'd have added him already.

This is also the first game were we're confirmed to have 3rd party characters from the same franchise.


And hey, if we use "Mii costumes" in our theories well:



Tails got one too, ya know.

 

[Nekoo]

Oh God, I can see it now. A Mario Kart track gets put up on the site, and we have people arguing about it for weeks that Music Theory is still viable because Mario has two categories on the song list.

I mean... Genuinely speaking. It would still works.
Mario Kart was always seen as another franchise in smash since Brawl, and even music wise.
In smash 4 the second "music part" became the spin-off part of Mario with the RPG, Party, and MK.

If we do get a Music from this in the blog.
I will definitely say that Geno's chance get awfully even more down since SMRPG music would fit there except if he have another Icons.

 

[Luigi The President]

This is also the first game were we're confirmed to have 3rd party characters from the same franchise.


And hey, if we use "Mii costumes" in our theories well:



Tails got one too, ya know.

Which implies to me Sakurai doesn't mind adding third parties from the same series. Which also implies to me he may not have had a problem with that at all before and we're just assuming he did.

Knuckles also got a Mii Costume. Only Mii Costume I believe may genuinely turn out to be a character is Geno, because his was specifically added due to fan demand. Nothing like the Tails situation.

 

[Luigifan18]

Have you seen the box?

Ridley and K. Rool are on the side lol.

That's my point exactly. You'd think that by the "big hype characters on the back of the box" logic, Ridley and K. Rool would be there, too.

 

[Shroob]

Which implies to me Sakurai doesn't mind adding third parties from the same series. Which also implies to me he may not have had a problem with that at all before and we're just assuming he did.

Knuckles also got a Mii Costume. Only Mii Costume I believe may genuinely turn out to be a character is Geno, because his was specifically added due to fan demand. Nothing like the Tails situation.

Is this not cherry picking?

"Mii costumes mean nothing, except this one Mii costume that I want to mean something."

 

[LetterO]

Oh God, I can see it now. A Mario Kart track gets put up on the site, and we have people arguing about it for weeks that Music Theory is still viable because Mario has two categories on the song list.

If they actually did that I'd have no doubt in my mind the people behind the blog updates are reading popular theories and using them to screw with us.

Music Theory relies on the assumption that a franchise cannot get more than two songs shown off. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Seriously, if Shadow isn't in then he's gotta be the character with the most things going for him that still didn't make it in for any Smash game ever. A lot of characters in the past have had dubious proof supporting their inclusion but then didn't make it, but Shadow has like actual things that point heavily towards him being in, it's not Ridley in the clouds stuff we're talking about here.

I'm not saying he's a shoe-in, I only consider Ken as that, but I'd still be shocked if he isn't in.

Shadow's AT being missing never guaranteed he'd be playable as ATs have been simply cut in the past.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh God, I can see it now. A Mario Kart track gets put up on the site, and we have people arguing about it for weeks that Music Theory is still viable because Mario has two categories on the song list.

If they actually did that I'd have no doubt in my mind the people behind the blog updates are reading popular theories and using them to screw with us.

I mean, Music Theory still works assuming Geno isn't in, which is a possibility.

EDIT: Also, Mario music is split up, so I don't understand how that would disprove it.

 

[Shroob]

Shadow's AT being missing never guaranteed he'd be playable as ATs have been simply cut in the past.

Imagine if Elecman had an actual fanbase to him.


I wonder if he'd also be "A lock".

 

[Paperchampion23]

Tru, he’s done crazy things in the past... I dunno, I just see him going out with a bigger bang this time, it’s just a gut feeling I have.

This is what I think too. I just have this odd feeling he's playing mind games with us right now. Ultimate's stream of characters and its entire promotional period is just totally different from any other smash game. I just personally think we are going to get more than we expect.

 

[Nekoo]

because his was specifically added due to fan demand.

I'm pretty sure the wave of K.Rool / Chrom / Llyod was added especially because of fan demand too.
But I'm maybe wrong

 

[Luigi The President]

Is this not cherry picking?

"Mii costumes mean nothing, except this one Mii costume that I want to mean something."

I don't see how it is? Geno is a complete footprint who would have been completely forgotten if not for fan demand. As such, why on earth would he had gotten a costume otherwise?

Tails is a long-established character already in the game, as was Knuckles.

I can see your point but I don't think you understand mine as well. Not trying to be hostile btw.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Imagine if Elecman had an actual fanbase to him.


I wonder if he'd also be "A lock".

Saki Amamiya not being shown off as an AT yet is also strange. But I don't think that means he'll be playable.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Shadow's AT being missing never guaranteed he'd be playable as ATs have been simply cut in the past.

He's definitely not guaranteed, but it's not even that he's just been cut, it's that he's a 3rd party AT that's been straight up replaced. Like, why would they cut Shadow and then have to go back and forth with Sega, and maybe even pay a bit extra, just to get Knuckles in? At that point I don't think it's a decision that's been made just because they think Knuckles would be cooler, so I really don't think it's comparable to just cutting a first party AT like Isaac, and Elec Man to Zero at least made sense as that's representing an entire subseries and a much more important character than the previous one.

I really don't care for Shadow mind you, or newschool Sonic in general for that matter, so all I'm saying is that I'd be surprised.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I mean, Music Theory still works assuming Geno isn't in, which is a possibility.

EDIT: Also, Mario music is split up, so I don't understand how that would disprove it.

We have to also account for the fact that the Geno might not even be tied with Mario, even though he's a Mario character. His character and music is entirely owned by a different company. I can actually see Geno having a SMRPG logo instead of a Mushroom logo anyway. We should treat 3rd parties as separate, no matter how much they could relate to in house Nintendo franchises.

 

[Untouch]

I have to wonder if some ATs were cut just so there's no problem with adding them as DLC later down the line.

 

[Chrono.]

I'm pretty sure the wave of K.Rool / Chrom / Llyod was added especially because of fan demand too.
But I'm maybe wrong

Yeah, especially Lloyd I'd say he was a kinda random addition unless you take popularity into account.

Saki Amamiya not being shown off as an AT yet is also strange. But I don't think that means he'll be playable.

Saki is in the same position Ray was imo.

Dead franchise, low priority, most likely scrapped.

I'd love to be wrong though I'd been wanting a Sin & Punishment character since I had it in VC.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's my point exactly. You'd think that by the "big hype characters on the back of the box" logic, Ridley and K. Rool would be there, too.

Compared to Sora, protagonist of one of the largest franchises worldwide, associated with Disney, and generally seen as an impossible pick, and Steve, avatar of one of the best selling and most popular games of all time, Ridley and K. Rool are nothing.

Putting them on a prominent spot on the box would literally guarantee sales. As in, those character would sell Nintendo Switches and bring people into Nintendo by their inclusion alone. K. Rool and Ridley only convinced Nintendo fans to finally buy the Switch.

 

[Shroob]

He's definitely not guaranteed, but it's not even that he's just been cut, it's that he's a 3rd party AT that's been straight up replaced. Like, why would they cut Shadow and then have to go back and forth with Sega, and maybe even pay a bit extra, just to get Knuckles in? At that point I don't think it's a decision that's been made just because they think Knuckles would be cooler, and I really don't think it's comparable to just cutting a first party AT like Isaac. Elec Man to Zero at least made sense as that's representing an entire subseries.

I really don't care for Shadow mind you, or newschool Sonic in general for that matter, so all I'm saying is that I'd be surprised.

*Clears throat*

Elec Man.


He got 'straight up replaced' as well by Zero.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

He's definitely not guaranteed, but it's not even that he's just been cut, it's that he's a 3rd party AT that's been straight up replaced.

But he hasn't. There is nothing stating there can't be two Sonic ATs and Knuckles functions nothing like Shadow.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

*Clears throat*

Elec Man.


He got 'straight up replaced' as well by Zero.

I cleared that up in an edit. I know we're talking about Sonic content here, but you're too fast

 

[Deleted member]

We have to also account for the fact that the Geno might not even be tied with Mario, even though he's a Mario character. His character and music is entirely owned by a different company. I can actually see Geno having a SMRPG logo instead of a Mushroom logo anyway. We should treat 3rd parties as separate, no matter how much they could relate to in house Nintendo franchises.

It's possible, but I will admit it's a bit of a stretch. Even if Square Enix owns him, most associate him with Mario as he is from a Mario game, so I imagine he'd be considered a Mario rep.

By the way, just wanna make it known I don't dislike Geno and I'm not saying he won't happen, I'm just speculating. I hope he will happen for the people who want him.

 

[Luigi The President]

It's possible, but I will admit it's a bit of a stretch. Even if Square Enix owns him, most associate him with Mario as he is from a Mario game, so I imagine he's be considered a Mario rep.

By the way, just wanna make it known I don't dislike Geno and I'm not saying he won't happen, I'm just speculating. I hope he will happen for the people who want him.

Many would consider Yoshi or Wario Mario reps. Are they Mario reps? Nope.

 

[Paperchampion23]

It's possible, but I will admit it's a bit of a stretch. Even if Square Enix owns him, most associate him with Mario as he is from a Mario game, so I imagine he'd be considered a Mario rep.

By the way, just wanna make it known I don't dislike Geno and I'm not saying he won't happen, I'm just speculating. I hope he will happen for the people who want him.

No of course! Im the same way. I was just figuring it would be a legal thing but who knows at this point.

 

[kylexv]

My inner pessimist is accepting that there are only two characters left (Ken and Incineroar). I would be less disappointed if it is true then.

However, if there are more than two characters left, I can guarantee you that there is another third party character coming.

 

[Potato_]

Music Theory relies on the assumption that a franchise cannot get more than two songs shown off. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't.

I mean, Music Theory still works assuming Geno isn't in, which is a possibility.

EDIT: Also, Mario music is split up, so I don't understand how that would disprove it.

I don't think people are understanding why I said what I said. First of all is Music theory not reliant on a series ONLY getting one song on the site and nothing else?

Second of all, the reason WHY my comment would be such an interesting predicament is because it would be ANOTHER hoop for music theory to jump through. First the exclusion of Echoes was needed and now in this situation you would also need to say "Oh that doesn't count because it's a SPINOFF mario title".

Basically everyone is so convinced that if you get a track on the site your series isn't getting another character, but if this happened people would try to find a way to justify it into the theory, just like what happened with echoes. I'm not even implying at all that this would disprove the theory, I just find it interesting how in this case people would actually have an argument as to why it still supports music theory.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:

• Isaac
• Geno
• Incineroar
• Rayman
• Bandana Dee
• Tamagon

Echoes:

• Ken
• Shadow
• Ninten
• Medusa
• Dixie Kong

5 New Stages:

• Pokefloats 2
• Mercury Lighthouse
• Devil's World Stage
• Rayman Stage
• Forest Maze

DLC:

• Sora
• Elma
• Springman
• Ayumi Tachibana

Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.

 

[Nekoo]

You know. The more I read Smash board and the smash community.
The more I realize that they don't see that we are the tiny place in the big Scheme of Smash Bros consumer.

Every smash Bros there is pick made for Smash fans. And some made for more open/Casual fans from Nintendo and now gaming in general

For US Incineroar might be a bad pick, but look at children? And they will just see it as a cool and great Pokemon!

They probably won't care about K.Rool and Ridley who are picks for fan themselves.

Ken? It's probably a gift for the fan of Fighting games alongside Ryu. Maybe the smash community see him as "meh he's just an echo" but the Characters himself will be hype.

Same goes for Daisy who's probably for a more "casual base"

Cloud was picked as the SE rep first because he's mother****ig Cloud Strife and anyone who heard of Video Games saw him somewhere or his look parodied as MrJRPG, Nintendo or Not Nintendo

So Steve's makes so much sense if you think about the Casual Market. Banjo, or not Banjo, and I wouldn't mind Banjo at all

I welcome all Characters. But people should try and think outside of the smash community for time to time. Smash Ultimate is made for us. Yes. But it's also made for Everyone.

 

[Misery Brick]

If you subscribe to the Mii Costume theory, then it's likely that Tails is going to get in before Shadow in that regard.
After all, prominent characters that were costumes have mostly been included in this game in some form so far.
A good majority of them were based off of fan favorites and requested characters, Tails has a good amount of backing and weight behind him regardless.

Also, I need to bring up Assist Trophies. Just because one AT was cut, doesn't necessarily mean that they'll show up. DS, Little Mac, and Isabelle are the only exceptions to the rule so far.
This isn't the standard.
Take a look at Isaac supporters back during Smash 4, they thought he'd get in the game due to his AT missing.
Look at how that panned out.

There's nothing to say that Shadow will be in because of it, and nothing to say that he can't or will still be an Assist Trophy.

 

[Fatmanonice]

We've talked about this in the Geno thread but, aside from the possibility of Super Mario RPG getting its own symbol (which would be dumb but would make sense given Geno's Mii costume reveal), there's also a chance that any SMRPG music could be straight rips and no remixes ala Cloud (which would be a crying shame especially with Shimomura being a Smash staple since Brawl and still the head composer for Mario RPG games after 22 years).

 

[Deleted member]

Many would consider Yoshi or Wario Mario reps. Are they Mario reps? Nope.

Now that's a spicy topic. Okay, before I say anything, PLEASE know that this is my opinion and mine alone, as I know some people get very, very upset by this:

Spoiler: Feel free to skip this if you want, it is a bit of a controversial opinion

For me personally, I DO view Yoshi and Wario as Mario characters with their own spin-offs. They both originated from Mario and even borrow things from his series. I also view franchises such as Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, and Luigi's Mansion as Mario spin-off titles. To me, SMRPG is a spin-off, and I think it would mean Geno would be a Mario rep.

Donkey Kong is a little easier for me to seperate given how his and Mario's first game was called Donkey Kong. Heck, you could say Mario was a DK spin-off, lol. It really is up to you what you view them as.

Also, please keep in mind music theory doesn't outright deconfirm Geno. Given the Mario music is separated, there is hope that would include a SMRPG remix to potentially come with Geno.

 

[Nekoo]

Many would consider Yoshi or Wario Mario reps. Are they Mario reps? Nope.

Didn't know that Geno appeared in Other Games and started his own series outside of Mario. Without the push of Mario. /s

 

[Rie Sonomura]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:

• Isaac
• Geno
• Incineroar
• Rayman
• Bandana Dee
• Tamagon

Echoes:

• Ken
• Shadow
• Ninten
• Medusa
• Dixie Kong

5 New Stages:

• Pokefloats 2
• Mercury Lighthouse
• Devil's World Stage
• Rayman Stage
• Forest Maze

DLC:

• Sora
• Elma
• Springman
• Ayumi Tachibana

Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.

A little disappointed Elma isn’t on the base roster, but if it saves my boy Waddle Dee from the music theory...

Tamagon makes me doubt it tho, and Ayumi Tachibana? Lol that’s never happening as much as I want it to

 

[Luigi The President]

Didn't know that Geno appeared in Other Games and started his own series outside of Mario. Without the push of Mario. /s

I mean that's...not my point, but the /s is throwing me off so I'm just gonna flash a thumbs up

 

[LetterO]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:

• Isaac
• Geno
• Incineroar
• Rayman
• Bandana Dee
• Tamagon

Echoes:

• Ken
• Shadow
• Ninten
• Medusa
• Dixie Kong

5 New Stages:

• Pokefloats 2
• Mercury Lighthouse
• Devil's World Stage
• Rayman Stage
• Forest Maze

DLC:

• Sora
• Elma
• Springman
• Ayumi Tachibana

Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.

I'd be up for Tamagon, but I doubt Sakurai already has 4 DLC characters preplanned. Also, anybody can claim to have been the guy who uploaded the pic.

 

[Shroob]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432857928

There is a leak of someone who claims to be the one who has upload a pic of Ken. Idk if he right or not because it is anon just like the Ken leak..so...

Unique:

• Isaac
• Geno
• Incineroar
• Rayman
• Bandana Dee
• Tamagon

Echoes:

• Ken
• Shadow
• Ninten
• Medusa
• Dixie Kong

5 New Stages:

• Pokefloats 2
• Mercury Lighthouse
• Devil's World Stage
• Rayman Stage
• Forest Maze

DLC:

• Sora
• Elma
• Springman
• Ayumi Tachibana

Nothing to say...here is a leak if you want one.

Not even going to entertain this one.

 

[Paperchampion23]

My inner pessimist is accepting that there are only two characters left (Ken and Incineroar). I would be less disappointed if it is true then.

However, if there are more than two characters left, I can guarantee you that there is another third party character coming.

I'd just find it weird that Nintendo only managed to add 1 new 1st party franchise (Splatoon) to Smash if this is the case. They don't have TOO many more, but like they still have:

-Chibi Robo
-Custom Robo (RIP though with them dropping the series trademark apparently)
-Sin and Punishment (RIP I guess? Nevermind it got Trademarked again! Yay!)
-Golden Sun (Renewed Trademark 3 years early is a good sign)
-Rhythm Heaven (Renewed Trademark may be a good sign)
-Advance Wars
-ARMS (may be too new for a rep atm)
-More I'm probably forgetting.

Of those, people expect Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven to finally actually get reps this time. That's were I'm placing my money on (at least concerning more 1st party franchises getting reps)

 

[Gothitelle]

I'm prefacing this by saying I don't own a Nintendo Switch. I am by no means a Nintendo fangirl, I'm just here because I like the Smash franchise. By the time I do get one (for Smash, of course), there will likely be a fair amount of DLC out. Which means that I'm totally indifferent to how much characters there are in the base roster. If it turned out there were only two fighters left, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

With that out of the way, I find it hard to believe the box theory. Partially because frontloading all the fighters so much feels odd to me, but moreso because they created an entirely new toggle feature just for echoes. I find it hard to believe that Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, Ken, Lucina, and Dark Pit are the only characters it was made for - two of which being returning characters who were retroactively made echoes. Especially when we have characters like Raichu, Ms. Pac-Man, and Black Shadow/Blood Falcon who would be easy echo candidates.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Posting a wish-list with a lulz-teh-random retro character has basically been the cookie-cutter approach to fake leaks since 2005...