Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Impa4Smash]

Just finished playing Mario RPG for the first time recently. I feel like the want for Geno is mainly nostalgia for the game and it’s characters. But it’s all focused on him rather than Mallow because Geno is the cool, mysterious, silent type character. I would’ve gone nuts for him if I played as a kid.

Also arm cannon and lasers.

 

[osby]

"Black Pit?" Is he not called Dark Pit in your country? I thought that was Japanese exclusive...

Smash doesn't have a language option for my country. I'm just talking about Japanese version and how "black" has more than one meaning.

 

[Noipoi]

I understand that, but to me, "Being cool" doesn't really make sense as to 'why' he should be in.


Geno is popular with us, the Smash fanbase, but I'd argue that his popularity outside of said fanbase is more or less very minor.


And, we can't forget he's owned partially by you-know-who.



Considering we've gone through two games now with Square, I don't think "If they gave Sakurai Geno to use, imagine all the good will that they'd get!" is even a ghost of a discussion point.

I think it's because Sakurai said he thought Geno was cool once ten years ago, Geno fans have held on to that as a big justification for him.
And this is coming from a Geno fan.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone's been talking about big third parties lately and I'm just sitting here crossing my fingers for Veemos.

If anyone were to challenge Inklings for my main, they'd do it. They're pretty much the only thing left besides Steve that'd match Joker's hype for me.

 

[Shroob]

Like, I don't hate Geno, far from it.


But I also feel like he's ridiculously overrated. That, and he's in the clutches of a less-than-friendly 3rd party company.

 

[Noipoi]

Everyone's been talking about big third parties lately and I'm just sitting here crossing my fingers for Veemos.

If anyone were to challenge Inklings for my main, they'd do it. There pretty much the only thing left besides Steve that'd match Joker's hype for me.

Considering characters like Geno, Banjo, Octos and Dee are sitting in the never ever corner, I don't have a horse in the dlc race.

Crash would be cool I guess, and i'm always down for more Pokemon so a gen 8 rep would be fine by me. Even though I can already hear the groans of other Smash fans.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Lol.

The fact anyone could believe people crafted the Big 3 to mean Geno, Ridley and K Rool were all important to their main series is exactly why you don't understand what Big 3 even meant in reference to them.

Geno fans are smart. They know he's not overall important to the Mario series.

Geno, Ridley, and K Rool ARE/were the big 3 because they were the 3 longest standing huge fan request communities for Smash Brothers. The ones that have lasted multiple games, eras, etc. The ones who had numerous heartbreaks, near calls, etc.

The only requests similar of size to them and style are Waluigi and Isaac. And I'd argue Waluigi didn't even start getting to be a bigger fan request till Brawl/Smash 4.

Geno, K Rool and Ridley have been around since Melee days and that's all ''Big 3" ever meant.

 

[Kingslime304]

It's still kind of surprising that both Mother and Persona are gonna be on the same game.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Like, I don't hate Geno, far from it.


But I also feel like he's ridiculously overrated. That, and he's in the clutches of a less-than-friendly 3rd party company.

I agree. He is overrated and he is in the dire situation of being owned by Square.

But Geno fans gonna want Geno.

 

[ZephyrZ]

My stance on Geno is largely the same as with almost every other character. It's cool to like him. It's even cool to campaign for him and try to get him in Smash. But to expect him or get angry at the lack of his inclusion is completely unreasonable. This is especially true for the likes of Geno as fanbase popularity is pretty much the only major thing he has going for him, but I still probably think it applies to whoever anyone else's most wanted is to.

 

[Shroob]

Lol.

The fact anyone could believe people crafted the Big 3 to mean Geno, Ridley and K Rool were all important to their main series is exactly why you don't understand what Big 3 even meant in reference to them.

Geno fans are smart. They know he's not overall important to the Mario series.

Geno, Ridley, and K Rool ARE/were the big 3 because they were the 3 longest standing fan requests for Smash Brothers. The ones that have last multiple games, eras, etc.

The only requests similar of size to them and style are Waluigi, Isaac, and Banjo. And I'd argue Waluigi didn't even start getting to be a bigger fan request till Brawl/Smash 4.

Geno, K Rool and Ridley have been around since Melee days and that's all ''Big 3" ever meant.

Except, I know that the "Big 3" didn't mean them being important.


I just don't think he's big enough to warrant Square giving a damn.



I think my biggest question boils down to:


"What does Square have to gain by giving us Geno instead of someone like Cloud, or some other major Square character?"



We already know that "Good will" is off the table.

 

[Deleted member]

Considering characters like Geno, Banjo, Octos and Dee are sitting in the never ever corner, I don't have a horse in the dlc race.

Crash would be cool I guess, and i'm always down for more Pokemon so a gen 8 rep would be fine by me. Even though I can already hear the groans of other Smash fans.

TBH I don't understand what my deal was earlier this year when I was against more Pokemon in Smash. More Pokemon is always welcome.

Now that I think about it, Sora would be a pretty good choice for me to. I'd probably react pretty similar to Joker and freak out, lol. Even then...Joker was such a never in my wildest dreams kind of character. Like, I thought him as even a pipe dream idea was too much credit towards the possibility. I'm really not sure if I'll get that excited for any of of the other character reveals.

Octolings, Sora, and Steve all would be cool, but TBH really only feel like cherries on top for me now that I have Joker. I think I'm gonna be pretty chill for the rest of these reveals assuming those three aren't any of them.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Money.

That's what they get from getting Geno in the game.

Same as they do for any character.

The amount and size of it is not going to matter to them as much.

Money. That's all it boils down to if they pick Geno over anyone else.

I'm still not convinced they have as much say in the matter as everyone thinks. It's not like Sakurai would go to them for let's say Sora and they over Erdrick. He'd take their offer. He might sure, but he hasn't shown a case of being swayed from what he wants from a company when he enters a third party negotiation.

He's even straight up said he's willing to tell them no if they offer up something he doesn't like or want when it came to Pac Man and if he had been made to use any design other than the one in Smash currently.

 

[Shroob]

Money.

That's what they get from getting Geno in the game.

Same as they do for any character.

The amount and size of it is not going to matter to them as much.

Money. That's all it boils down to if they pick Geno over anyone else.

I'm still not convinced they have as much say in the matter as everyone thinks. It's not like Sakurai would go to them for let's say Sora and they over Erdrick. He'd take their offer. He might sure, but he hasn't shown a case of being swayed from what he wants from a company when he enters a third party negotiation.

He's even straight up said he's willing to tell them no if they offer up something he doesn't like or want when it came to Pac Man and if he had been made to use any design other than the one in Smash currently.

Of course it's money, money is the root of why any DLC character exists in the first place.


But I also don't think the powers that be are stupid when it comes to picking these DLC characters, whoever they are.



It doesn't take a galaxybrain to say that someone like Sora or Sephiroth for example would probably destroy Geno's sales numbers.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Since we're on the subject of Geno, I just want to say this. It's fine to want a character, but you also have to realize that some are just unlikely. Geno is that kind of character. There's no way to slice it, he's a bad rep for his series and a bad rep for his company. The likelihood of him ever being in the game was slim to none. Hell, I've wanted Vaati since Brawl, but I recognize the hurdles he has, so I don't really think he's likely regardless of what I want. I still want him. I still bring him up from time to time, but his likelihood will continue to decrease the longer he stays absent from the series.

 

[Noipoi]

I actually don't think Banjo's impossible. I'm not saying he's likely at all. But it could happen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What's this whole talk about Geno? Was something revealed hinting at him? I haven't been here all day.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually don't think Banjo's impossible. I'm not saying he's likely at all. But it could happen.

I'm not even guessing what is and isn't possible after Joker.

At this point, they could add Master Chief and I'd probably be like "Yeah, makes sense".

 

[Shroob]

What's this whole talk about Geno? Was something revealed hinting at him? I haven't been here all day.

Nope, I just made a controversial opinion to spark discussion as requested.

 

[Idon]

Nope, I just made a controversial opinion to spark discussion as requested.

Might as well get some snippets from the unpopular opinions thread, lol.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nope, I just made a controversial opinion to spark discussion as requested.

Ah gotcha.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Of course it's money, money is the root of why any DLC character exists in the first place.


But I also don't think the powers that be are stupid when it comes to picking these DLC characters, whoever they are.



It doesn't take a galaxybrain to say that someone like Sora or Sephiroth for example would probably destroy Geno's sales numbers.

Again it's not really up to Square as much if Sora, Sephiroth, Dragon Quest etc get in as much as it is Sakurai's willingness to add them to his game. He's the driving force behind all this.

If the man wants to add Geno and they tell him ''Well, what about X?" Well he probably is just going to walk away from them because he hasn't envisioned what X would even entail in Smash Brothers yet.

It'd probably be the very same with Joker if Atlus had suggested another Persona protag instead or an SMT character instead.

There was probably an approach specifically for Joker.

Not just ''Persona rep."

It'd be the same with Square. They'd most likely approach Square with a very specific inclusion in mind. Not a long list of maybes. Otherwise negotiations would take forever and so would planning the potential character.

 

[Shroob]

Alright, let's have another one.


"Chair theory was dumb and you should feel bad."


"Sakurai told us three times to taper your expectations, and you didn't believe him."


"A new Pokemon is always going to happen, deal with it."



Pick your poison, really.

 

[osby]

Alright, let's have another one.


"Chair theory was dumb and you should feel bad."

Chair theory was true, we got Joker.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

"A new Pokemon is always going to happen, deal with it."

And apparently it did.

64:
Melee:
Brawl:
Sm4sh:
Ultimate:

 

[The Animator]

I never played Super Mario RPG, so I really didn't care about Geno, but after seeing this mod:

It made me interested in the character. I was looking forward to seeing what Sakurai would actually do with him, since I figured he was a guaranteed after they revealed Ridley. He has a lot of people that really love him, and played an important role in a Mario game. So I can get behind him as opposed to a lot of the other 3rd party picks that just feel out of place.

 

[Shroob]

And apparently it did.

64:
Melee:
Brawl:
Sm4sh:
Ultimate:

Actually, the "Deal with it" was my sass.



People during Vergebox/Grinch, "Incineroar is leak bait/there doesn't HAVE to be a new Pokemon"


But now we know that this is the 2nd game in a row that Sakurai specifically reserved a spot on the roster for a Pokemon.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think Monster Hunter is out of the running. They chose to implement that franchise in the way best representative of its gameplay, through a giant monster fight.

So then who do you think is in the running? I'm genuinely curious to hear what you have in mind, given that you're one of the more analytical members here, and your predictions are typically correct. I know you've talked about Dragon Quest before, but what other third (or first) parties do you think are likely?

 

[osby]

Trivia: Persona 5 got into Guineas World Records Book, as the most critically acclaimed RPG of the eight-generation home consoles: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuJCNFpW4AAkYXu.jpg:large

(btw, its handheld console equivalent was P4G)

 

[Shroob]

Chair theory was true, we got Joker.

That reference almost flew over my head.

 

[Roberk]

To me, that'd be the equivalent of Virion getting into Smash over someone like Robin.

Opossum

 

[Noipoi]

Pokemon basically generates several potential Smash characters every three years, and is also one of Nintendo's biggest franchises and the biggest
multi-media franchise in the world. You don't have to like it, you don't have to play them, but a new Pokemon will always come.

 

[Shroob]

I never played Super Mario RPG, so I really didn't care about Geno, but after seeing this mod:

It made me interested in the character. I was looking forward to seeing what Sakurai would actually do with him, since I figured he was a guaranteed after they revealed Ridley. He has a lot of people that really love him, and played an important role in a Mario game. So I can get behind him as opposed to a lot of the other 3rd party picks that just feel out of place.

And that was your logical misstep.


Ridley is in =/= Geno is guaranteed.


Just because the community held him high on a pedistal didn't mean anything.

Ridley's been a thing for 17 years.

K.Rool rocked the ballot hard.


But in pretty much all the fan polls I've seen, Geno struggled to make it into the top 10 over characters like K.Rool, Bandanna Dee, and our missing veterans. THAT, and he's owned by Square, which is another can of worms entirely.

 

[osby]

That reference almost flew over my head.

It's a nice time to remember P5 fandom also used chairs to speculate about playable characters and was completely wrong. Also, "Chair-kun"

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

Angers me how people jump to conclusions so quickly

 

[ganondorf_22]

Not just ''Persona rep."

So they’re finally here, performing for you

 

[Noipoi]

Please I just need Bandanna Dee.

 

[osby]

View attachment 182720
Angers me how people jump to conclusions so quickly

Watch people say "Sakurai lied to us!" because they misinterpreted something Reggie said.

 

[perfectchaos83]

View attachment 182720
Angers me how people jump to conclusions so quickly

Welcome to the Smash Fanbase where Jumping to conclusions is our middle name!

 

[LetterO]

I'm going to drop a minor hot take of my own

I don't understand the Ashley demand and I think alot of WarioWare characters would be tons better than her. 9-Volt, Jimmy, and Kat & Ana to name a few.

im sorry noipoi and other ashley fans