Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Honestly my biggest issue with Banjo is how there's no impact the franchise made at all other than "I liked it". "Collectathons!" You mean Mario 64. "Cartoon animals!" That's Sonic. "Rareware!" That's DK. "Indie games being inspired by collectathons!" Yooka Laylee was condemned for being too similar to Banjo Kazooie and did badly whereas Hat in Time primarily was inspired by Mario Sunshine

The fact that people are still arguing over it to this day sort of hard counters your no impact argument.

Banjo Kazooie wasn't the first to do collectathons but it's the one people remember. It outright made up pointless things to nab to the point of self parody.

Not to mention the little things we still have from its legacy. If you hear platformer characters mumbling in gibberish you can bet people point to B-K for it.

Seriously, people pretending Banjo is some third rate character who nobody actually cares about must have not been paying attention to the savage beatdown Nuts and Bolts got from fans and critics. It's petty historical revisionism at best.

 

[Potato_]

That's not his counter.

It's his super armor.

So it's a counter against super armor abuse huh?

Makes sense I guess considering the large amount of it he has. Do we know how his belly heals though? Is it just a timed thing?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

When you break KRool breastplate super armor, he gets like "shield broken". It can tank 3 hits. The breast plate gets cracked. pic.twitter.com/mCpM5Bd4m8

— Greward (@Greward3) November 4, 2018

Another thing I've heard about, but never actually witnessed.

Uh, Will , I think you wanted to see this earlier.

Huh... it seems a bit cheap if you ask me...

 

[Roberk]

YO BATTLE OF THE GODS, THE FINAL BOSS MAP IN FIRE EMBLEM GAIDEN/ECHOES IS IN

HOLY **** YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I'M SO SORRY FOR ALL CAPS BUT YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Thank god, after seeing the poor track selection from XC2 I didn't think 2017 games would have that much, thanks Sakurai.

 

[KMDP]

She could be the reverse Ridley. The reverse Captain America. I mean, have we gotten the Japan fanservice character yet like we got ours?

Pretty sure that was King K. Rool.

Seriously, I think every country wanted King K. Rool en masse.

 

[Deleted member]

YOOOOOO!


SSF2 doesn't have Tingle.

I heard that the gameplay is better there, doh.

I would love Crusade if the gameplay was more defined.

 

[Kuon]

That would make sense. For comparison's sake would honestly have stood a chance for DLC inclusion by himself? Probably not, so the base game is always the best chance, and it leaves room for bigger promotions.

Besides, characters like and took years before eventually making the cut, so it's not an easy, cut and dry selection process.

Yep. These older characters for the older fans wouldn't work well for DLC. They're best left for the base game

 

[Idon]

You're gonna have to explain because I read that and I'm lookin' like this rn.

View attachment 175685

I believe they're saying:

Any move where he uses his belly cannot be interrupted so he can power through attacks.
However, the belly will get visually cracked upon taking a hit
This happens 3 times, and it gets broken

 

[Will]

Huh... it seems a bit cheap if you ask me...

Dude, K. Rool has one of the straight-up fastest D-Airs in the game that we've seen atm, the man can't be too stronk.

 

[Kuon]

How you would feel about this dlc line up:

Sora
Steve
Bandana Dee
Dixie Kong
Elma

I wouldn't want any of those honestly

 

[Deleted member]

Theres a rumor Marvel vs Capcom 4 is going to be a thing, not sure if that helps.

If that's true, I hope to God they learned their mistakes from last game.

 

[Deleted member]

How you would feel about this dlc line up:

Sora
Steve
Bandana Dee
Dixie Kong
Elma

Good picks, tbh.

 

[GoeGoe]

Sadly, the closest thing to that is Super Smash Bros Crusade.

And that game isn’t so good when Smash Flash 2 exists.

Blade of Stranger started something. So something like that.
We are the ones feeding Smash level, so it can happen to any.

 

[Will]

>Echoes OST gets in Smash
>still no Genealogy of the Holy War or Tharcia 776

 

[Iridium]

So it's a counter against super armor abuse huh?

Makes sense I guess considering the large amount of it he has. Do we know how his belly heals though? Is it just a timed thing?

It's probably timed, but I unfortunately can't say much on regeneration. Super armor abuse really got shafted here.

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

I try not to bring up who "deserves" a spot, as there are a lot of characters that would be a great fit for Smash. Personally, I'll be happy with anyone Sakurai deems is a good choice for the game, and I'm almost certainly going to be getting the pass around the time that the game launches, as Ultimate as it is now has nearly every character that I've ever wanted in it. Heck, I can't even decide which characters I want to main as of right now, as most of them look like a blast to play (probably going to have a long list of characters I enjoy with such a massive roster at my disposal).

Would I have my preferences as to who I'd like to see enter in as DLC? Sure. I'm personally happy about any choices we get though, because at the end of the day, it's not worth getting worked up if a character you may not love as much as others out of a roster of 74 (or 80 with DLC as we know it at this time) makes it in. That's an incredible amount that almost every other fighting game would love to have, and the fact that we can get this many with Ultimate is mind-boggling.

All I'm really trying to say is, try not to get stressed out over DLC for the game, or characters who could make it into the next Smash, when Ultimate itself hasn't even been released yet. Enjoy the game for what it is, and just have fun with it. It's not worth giving yourself a headache or making yourself angry over it, when discussion should be stimulating or enjoyable. I do hope that those of you who are looking forward to seeing particular characters make it in via DLC will see your dreams realized though; just try not to get too upset if a particular character you don't like makes it in, as that character will have their fans too.

 

[Deleted member]

I heard that the gameplay is better there, doh.

I would love Crusade if the gameplay was more defined.

SSF2 is more refined, while Crusade just aims for stupid fun. So it's like, do you want Sakurai lite, or people who know they aren't Sakurai just doing whatever they want.

Neither game is really worth playing over the official ones though IMO.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

How you would feel about this dlc line up:

Sora
Steve
Bandana Dee
Dixie Kong
Elma

I would love it for the latter 3, not big on Sora or Steve but I would accept them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

THIS TWITTER THREAD
https://twitter.com/Marcbri/status/1058838021951373313

Oh **** that is BAD lmao. Makes sense, he's pretty good at killing and recovering so it balances it out in a way

Dude, K. Rool has one of the straight-up fastest D-Airs in the game that we've seen atm, the man can't be too stronk.

Plus he hasn't used the dang thing in ages. It's getting as rusty as his tattered cape.

 

[Deleted member]

The argument he's making is that Banjo-Kazooie, Super Mario RPG and Golden Sun have worldwide appeal (near in SMRPG's case), while Granblue Fantasy would appeal to Japanese people and Japanese people only (until GBF makes it's way to other countries).

The fact that Banjo-Kazooie and Golden Sun haven't seen releases in decades notwithstanding.

Honestly it's both.
I would love Banjo but can understand he doesn't have the universal appeal that some other characters would, same goes for Isaac and Geno. Granblue is really only popular in Japan and has a very small niche outside of it, so to me Katalina is in a similar boat.
Why are people arguing against the former characters while saying the latter character is okay, even though it would seem like they have the same things going against them?

Yeah, I've heard that too. But it's not only about what the hardcore Smash fans want, whether here or in Japan. The general Smash fans in Japan may really like the idea of her being in the game, just not the hardcore fans

Yeah, and the general Smash fan outside of Japan wouldn't know who the hell she is.
You can't just say "These niche characters aren't okay" while defending an equally niche character that would just so happen to be popular in one area in the world.

She could be the reverse Ridley. The reverse Captain America. I mean, have we gotten the Japan fanservice character yet like we got ours?

People in Japan still knew who Ridley was, though. He had some sort of international appeal.
Katalina simply doesn't have that.

 

[staindgrey]

HOLY **** YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I'M SO SORRY FOR ALL CAPS BUT YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Thank god, after seeing the poor track selection from XC2 I didn't think 2017 games would have that much, thanks Sakurai.

Well just remember that SoV released, like, way earlier in the year than XC2.

And also Sakurai loves Fire Emblem.

 

[Deleted member]

I try not to bring up who "deserves" a spot, as there are a lot of characters that would be a great fit for Smash. Personally, I'll be happy with anyone Sakurai deems is a good choice for the game, and I'm almost certainly going to be getting the pass around the time that the game launches, as Ultimate as it is now has nearly every character that I've ever wanted in it. Heck, I can't even decide which characters I want to main as of right now, as most of them look like a blast to play (probably going to have a long list of characters I enjoy with such a massive roster at my disposal).

Would I have my preferences as to who I'd like to see enter in as DLC? Sure. I'm personally happy about any choices we get though, because at the end of the day, it's not worth getting worked up if a character you may not love as much as others out of a roster of 74 (or 80 with DLC as we know it at this time) makes it in. That's an incredible amount that almost every other fighting game would love to have, and the fact that we can get this many with Ultimate is mind-boggling.

All I'm really trying to say is, try not to get stressed out over DLC for the game, or characters who could make it into the next Smash, when Ultimate itself hasn't even been released yet. Enjoy the game for what it is, and just have fun with it. It's not worth giving yourself a headache or making yourself angry over it, when discussion should be stimulating or enjoyable. I do hope that those of you who are looking forward to seeing particular characters make it in via DLC will see your dreams realized though; just try not to get too upset if a particular character you don't like makes it in, as that character will have their fans too.

Indeed.
I just want to pick the game at launch, and play with my friends as K.Rool and the Metroid reps.
And if some characters don’t join, there’s always Smash Flash 2.

 

[Roberk]

>Echoes OST gets in Smash
>still no Genealogy of the Holy War or Tharcia 776

View attachment 175686

Have hope, we still don't know how many tracks that one composer made for FE and maybe he's based.

 

[Potato_]

It's probably timed, but I unfortunately can't say much on regeneration. Super armor abuse really got shafted here.

Nah it's completely understandable to me considering the large amount of benefits he has. Amazing recovery, super armor on a lot of his moves, pretty good speed for a heavy. Something's gotta give.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

How you would feel about this dlc line up:

Sora
Steve
Bandana Dee
Dixie Kong
Elma

Wouldn't be too crazy about Dixie Kong as her own fighter, but other than her, I would love the 4 other additions

 

[RyuhoFox]

I mean yeah, but if the DLC characters were going for MAX APPEAL like some people seem to think, why would Nintendo be fine with a character that only appeals to a subset of the market?
I wouldn't care about Katalina, in fact I would probably play her because Sakurai can make me like anything, but it's sort of an oxymoron.

Meanwhile characters like Geno and Isaac cater to an even smaller subset of the market. Banjo I think may still have a good bit of popularity considering Yooka Laylee but Geno outside of the Smash fandom is not too commonly cared for, while Isaac's whole series is basically dead in the water.
Isaac and Geno depend entirely on the hardcore fanbase who wants them, and even they tend to not be as big a part of the fandom.
While Granblue is pretty popular over pretty much the whole country of Japan tmk, meaning a character from there would appeal to more people than Geno and Isaac would.

Granblue would likely appeal to a larger group of people than two thirds of the characters you mentioned, and might overshadow B&K a fair bit considering Granblue is still active as a series

 

[ChronoBound]

Well, thank you for replying, especially with such a long response. I feel honored that you took this much time and effort to respond to someone as little as me. I can't promise I'll be around here often after the game is released either, but who knows? Anyway, thanks again, and I hope to see you around the forums from time to time. Take care.

You are not "little". I had something I had to express based on your response, so I felt the need to write it. It warms my heart that you felt gratitude towards this.

As with the ending of Majora's Mask.
"Whenever there is a meeting, a parting is sure to follow. However, that parting need not last forever... Whether a parting be forever or merely for a short time... That is up to you."

I feel that is how I feel here. I was not intending to come back after Smash 4 because I did not anticipate Ultimate coming so soon after Smash 4 and Ultimate taking the direction it did. I do not know what the future holds, but as of right now, I do not feel like I want to continue for another round, especially only for a single character.

 

[WolfCypher]

Oh come on, where have I heard that before.. Soul Caliber?
I meant a cross fighter that aims at none fighters. Just like Smash. All those forgotten charcaters and all those indies in one game. No mad rules of inclusion, no more begging, no more debating.

Okay. You want a Sega All-Stars Fighters. I do, too...

 

[CaptainCC]

First, RIP page 6969. Second, any news since then about the Grinch leak? I can't lay it to rest in my mind until I see a behind the scenes. And it wasn't MarioTehPlumber, so don't tell me that.

 

[staindgrey]

If that's true, I hope to God they learned their mistakes from last game.

Allegedly, that's exactly what's happening. They're using the core of MvCi and adding all the **** people wanted and rebranding without the infinity stones.

Which I am all for, because I actually really like the MvCi/SFxTK 2v2 playstyle. Much easier to manage. But we'll see if the rumor turns out. Unlike the bogus "Uncanny Edition" rumors before, this one has traction with insiders who think it might be real.

 

[SvartWolf]

While I love Soulcalibur, it's not really a crossover fighter. More of a fighter that has a few guest characters.

Crossover fighters would be something like MvC or Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

I know... but I still can play with Geralt, soon 2b, and even Elma and King K Rool.
(heck someone manage to makje a great magikarp and an actual helicopter XD)

I mean yeah, but if the DLC characters were going for MAX APPEAL like some people seem to think, why would Nintendo be fine with a character that only appeals to a subset of the market?
I wouldn't care about Katalina, in fact I would probably play her because Sakurai can make me like anything, but it's sort of an oxymoron.

those rumous are tied to other rumours that Cygames want top expand outside of japan, and want to make Granblue a thing worldwide, which makes sense that they might want to pull a Fire Emblem with Granblue though....

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

SSF2 is more refined, while Crusade just aims for stupid fun. So it's like, do you want Sakurai lite, or people who know they aren't Sakurai just doing whatever they want.

Neither game is really worth playing over the official ones though IMO.

99% of SSF2 playtime can probably be traced back to highschool computer labs

 

[Gyrom8]

Olimar seems to have gotten some neat changes this time around. I loved Olimar in Brawl, but he just didn't feel the same in Smash 4. Here's hoping he's good in Ultimate.

I love it. Was planning on using Olimar more anyway (didn't use him on 3ds that much as I didn't like micromanaging Pikmin on a little screen) but the news that he's getting buffed is great.

 

[Idon]

Have hope, we still don't know how many tracks that one composer made for FE and maybe he's based.

I think Nintendo would rather cancel smash than acknowledge Project M, lmao...

RIP P:M Samus... you were too good for this world.
Also Ike on speed.

 

[Akg0001]

I would love it for the latter 3, not big on Sora or Steve but I would accept them.

Im feeling the same. I can see why steve and sora would be dlc. But katalina please no. I really hope we get at least 2-3 nintendo characters. So many people here think we will get 5 third party characters. Makes me think twice if i buy the fighter pass. Im not interested in third party characters that much

 

[Deleted member]

Allegedly, that's exactly what's happening. They're using the core of MvCi and adding all the **** people wanted and rebranding without the infinity stones.

Which I am all for, because I actually really like the MvCi/SFxTK 2v2 playstyle. Much easier to manage. But we'll see if the rumor turns out. Unlike the bogus "Uncanny Edition" rumors before, this one has traction with insiders who think it might be real.

I just want them to make MVC 4 good. Improve the visuals, improve the gameplay, add the freaking X-men!

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

SSF2 is more refined, while Crusade just aims for stupid fun. So it's like, do you want Sakurai lite, or people who know they aren't Sakurai just doing whatever they want.

Neither game is really worth playing over the official ones though IMO.

Gotta be honest, I kinda don't like how they decided to add non video game characters in those fan games, also some of the choices were pretty jarring in my opinion. Plus it just doesn't feel like the official games to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Meanwhile characters like Geno and Isaac cater to an even smaller subset of the market. Banjo I think may still have a good bit of popularity considering Yooka Laylee but Geno outside of the Smash fandom is not too commonly cared for, while Isaac's whole series is basically dead in the water.
Isaac and Geno depend entirely on the hardcore fanbase who wants them, and even they tend to not be as big a part of the fandom.
While Granblue is pretty popular over pretty much the whole country of Japan tmk, meaning a character from there would appeal to more people than Geno and Isaac would.

Granblue would likely appeal to a larger group of people than two thirds of the characters you mentioned, and might overshadow B&K a fair bit considering Granblue is still active as a series

I never argued against Banjo and the like being niche characters, because they are. Granblue is popular in Japan, but unheard of pretty much everywhere else unless you're the kind of person that actively goes searching for it.
Again, you can't argue against certain niche characters while advocating for others. You can't just defend a character because "they're popular over there" while at the same time advocating for Steve because he would have mass appeal.

 

[Deleted member]

I just want them to make MVC 4 good. Improve the visuals, improve the gameplay, add the freaking X-men!

I would love to see my man Doctor Doom back too.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You're gonna have to explain because I read that and I'm lookin' like this rn.

View attachment 175685


Okay see now this man knows how to use his words.

K.Rool apparently has super armor on several moves, including Dash Attack and Nair. Abuse them too much and his armor shatters, but it looks seems like the damage on his armor heals very quickly too so I don't think it should be too much of a concern. I think its mostly just to keep low level players from spamming the same moves over and over.