Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[GoeGoe]

Okay. You want a Sega All-Stars Fighters. I do, too...

From EVERY company.

 

[NineS]

Honestly it's both.
People in Japan still knew who Ridley was, though. He had some sort of international appeal.
Katalina simply doesn't have that.

People in Japan knew who Ridley was, but to my knowledge, they didn't really want him nor care for him in Smash as much as we did over here, and was mostly put in due to all the demand he got from over here, hence, "Captain America". No other character in Smash has this kind mostly-selective appeal, aside from Dark Samus and Chrom, but they're echo fighters who still had some vocal fans for them in both countries. Even while Simon was mostly appealing to western audiences, Richter was appealing to the Japanese audiences.

We do not have a new character that yet appeals to Japan specifically. Inklings, K. Rool, Isabelle, and even Incineroar both have global appeal. It doesn't tilt one way or the other. There's no character that would yet be fanservice mostly or specifically to the Japanese audiences in the way Ridley was mostly towards the west/US audience. Although Granblue itself isn't known, with rumours floating around of it getting an international/english release, it could become very known very quickly.

 

[Deleted member]

That is true. I mean, Japan got Chrom, but western fans got Dark Samus. I don't think there is a character that only the Japanese fans want (similar to Ridley for us)

I know you ain't just ignoring King K. Rool and Isabelle like that.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh come on, where have I heard that before.. Soul Caliber?
I meant a cross fighter that aims at none fighters. Just like Smash. All those forgotten charcaters and all those indies in one game. No mad rules of inclusion, no more begging, no more debating.

...Blade Strangers? It's the closest comparison I can make.

From EVERY company.

Oh, even the dead ones and ones whose games aren't ready yet?

Well just remember that SoV released, like, way earlier in the year than XC2.

And also Sakurai loves Fire Emblem.

But not enough to make Tiki playable, smh.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a **** about the Marvel side of MvC.
Now that Marvel's owned by Disney and they have to deal with all that corporate bull**** like in MvCI, I wish Capcom would just split off and make their own Capcom all-stars fighting game.

When Capcom vs. Capcom,

 

[WolfCypher]

I just want them to make MVC 4 good. Improve the visuals, improve the gameplay, add the freaking X-men!

As long as Marvel/Disney doesn't do so much damn micromanaging and interfering, let Capcom steer the boat, sure.

 

[Deleted member]

Gotta be honest, I kinda don't like how they decided to add non video game characters in those fan games, also some of the choices were pretty jarring in my opinion. Plus it just doesn't feel like the official games to me.

Crusade's roster has it's own stupid backstory to it that I don't feel like detailing right now.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a **** about the Marvel side of MvC.
Now that Marvel's owned by Disney and they have to deal with all that corporate bull**** like in MvCI, I wish Capcom would just split off and make their own Capcom all-stars fighting game.

When Capcom vs. Capcom,

Capcom All Stars Battle Royale.

 

[KMDP]

Why are people arguing against the former characters while saying the latter character is okay, even though it would seem like they have the same things going against them?

Because it's easy to make claims about what a country wants and get away with it with no actual people from that country around.

Banjo and Isaac are still remembered in Japan, it's not like America and Europe are the only people asking for them (we're just far more numerous). They don't have equivalency to Katalina, the equivalent would be stuff like Digimon (before 2016) and Ganbare Goemon, still around in Japan but has fallen out of popularity in the West, if still remembered fondly by some.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a **** about the Marvel side of MvC.
Now that Marvel's owned by Disney and they have to deal with all that corporate bull**** like in MvCI, I wish Capcom would just split off and make their own Capcom all-stars fighting game.
When Capcom vs. Capcom,

I don't think so this time. Marvel said that they're getting the rights to both Fantastic Four and X-Men back next year.

 

[Kuon]

Yeah, and the general Smash fan outside of Japan wouldn't know who the hell she is.
You can't just say "These niche characters aren't okay" while defending an equally niche character that would just so happen to be popular in one area in the world.

But she's not niche in Japan. It would also be a good marketing strategy for Nintendo and Cygames

 

[Idon]

Capcom All Stars Battle Royale.

Exactly, except y'know.
Don't use that name.
shudder.

 

[theromfather]

I think all the leaks are wrong and that Sakurai is just gonna troll everyone with:

*Random Fire Emblem Character
*Random Pokemon
*Waluigis Shoe
*Geno's wooden arm
*Hitachi Power Tool

Plus a bonus patch that removes Shiek and all Links except Adult Link.

Mark my words

 

[GoeGoe]

...Blade Strangers? It's the closest comparison I can make.

Yes, something like that

 

[WolfCypher]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a **** about the Marvel side of MvC.
Now that Marvel's owned by Disney and they have to deal with all that corporate bull**** like in MvCI, I wish Capcom would just split off and make their own Capcom all-stars fighting game.

When Capcom vs. Capcom,

Oh my effn god I've been saying this for years!

 

[Kuon]

You are not "little". I had something I had to express based on your response, so I felt the need to write it. It warms my heart that you felt gratitude towards this.

As with the ending of Majora's Mask.
"Whenever there is a meeting, a parting is sure to follow. However, that parting need not last forever... Whether a parting be forever or merely for a short time... That is up to you."

I feel that is how I feel here. I was not intending to come back after Smash 4 because I did not anticipate Ultimate coming so soon after Smash 4 and Ultimate taking the direction it did. I do not know what the future holds, but as of right now, I do not feel like I want to continue for another round, especially only for a single character.

That is totally understandable

 

[DevaAshera]

Because it is bad economically for Nintendo. It is going to discourage consumers to buy dlc if it is too expensive. It could cause people to not buy the dlc if it were too expensive. If they added 3 more charcters on top of the 5, then it would end of costing 40$ which is more than half the money to buy a brand new smash ultimate. Let that sink in. Most consumers would rarely buy something that expensive but would be more likely to buy something 25$. Also I just don’t think it is Sakuri’s nature to try and make us pay lots of money for dlc. In the direct, he said that he wanted to announce the charcters before you buy the dlc so you are not blindly buying something. Also let’s be real here, Nintendo is gonna make the most profit on the 25$ pass so anyone saying that oh you don’t have to buy all of the dlc, is still taking away Nintendo’s main source of income for the dlc.

Honestly, I don't think it is. If they space it out enough and provide enough content for players to enjoy, people will buy it. Its only expensive if you buy the game and then try to buy it all after it released..though chances are Sakurai would provide a cheaper 'all in one' pack or something like was done with Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U..keep in mind that that game got super expensive with all the DLC as well. I mean, just the fighters and Ryu/Cloud/Bayonetta stages discounted bundle pack was $34.93 for just one and $41.93 for both, then $14.45 for all non-character pack stages on both versions, then 40 Mii Costumes for .75 cents each, coming to $30 even...so for everything in both titles, it would end up being $86.38 in total, nearly $20 more then the base game.
As such, I don't think its outside of the realm of possibility.

 

[Deleted member]

People in Japan knew who Ridley was, but to my knowledge, they didn't really want him nor care for him in Smash as much as we did over here, and was mostly put in due to all the demand he got from over here, hence, "Captain America". No other character in Smash has this kind mostly-selective appeal, aside from Dark Samus and Chrom, but they're echo fighters who still had some vocal fans for them in both countries. Even while Simon was mostly appealing to western audiences, Richter was appealing to the Japanese audiences.

We do not have a new character that yet appeals to Japan specifically. Inklings, K. Rool, Isabelle, and even Incineroar both have global appeal. It doesn't tilt one way or the other. There's no character that would yet be fanservice mostly or specifically to the Japanese audiences in the way Ridley was mostly towards the west/US audience. Although Granblue itself isn't known, with rumours floating around of it getting an international/english release, it could become very known very quickly.

You do realize the "Captain America" thing was a lie created by Ridley haters, right?

 

[Starbound]

YES WE GOT TWILIGHT OF THE GODS IN SMASH!!!!!

Even if it's a remix of the NES song I'm totally cool with it because it doesn't even sound like an NES song. But if it's the SoV version I might actually die from being too excited.

Y'all have fantastic taste in FE music.

...can we get Vs. Arvis or Lionheart Eldigan in Smash too?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Crusade's roster has it's own stupid backstory to it that I don't feel like detailing right now.

One day everyone gathered and then Master Hand came in and yelled "JINO WURL". Not that complicated tbh

 

[Kuon]

I know you ain't just ignoring King K. Rool and Isabelle like that.

King K Rool was wanted by the hardcore Smash fans worldwide, and Isabelle was easily recognizable by the casual fans, since she's the face of Animal Crossing, one of the biggest Nintendo franchises. Neither of them are specifically wanted by Japanese fans only

 

[Deleted member]

People in Japan knew who Ridley was, but to my knowledge, they didn't really want him nor care for him in Smash as much as we did over here, and we as mostly put in due to all the demand he got from over here, hence, "Captain America". No other character in Smash has this kind mostly-selective appeal, aside from Dark Samus and Chrom, but they're echo fighters who still had some vocal fans for them in both countries. Even while Simon was mostly appealing to western audiences, Richter was appealing to the Japanese audiences.

We do not have a new character that yet appeals to Japan specifically. Inklings, K. Rool, Isabelle, and even Incineroar both have global appeal. It doesn't tilt one way or the other. There's no character that would yet be fanservice mostly or specifically to the Japanese audiences in the way Ridley was mostly towards the west/US audience. Although Granblue itself isn't known, with rumours floating around of it getting an international/english release, it could become very known very quickly.

From what I've heard Incineroar is way bigger of a deal over in Japan than he is in the West, but he still has fans here much like Ridley probably does in Japan also I'm pretty sure the "Captain America" thing was a rumor being spread around anyway.
And who's to say demand for a Grandblue character would even drum up here in the states and other western countries when it breaks out of Japan? People might be more receptive of Katalina at best, but that's about it.

But she's not niche in Japan. It would also be a good marketing strategy for Nintendo and Cygames

I never said she was, I said she was niche everywhere else. I can also understand that would be beneficial for Nintendo and Cygames, and can also see why it would be sort of baffling if they were going for worldwide appeal otherwise.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So uh

This may have been discussed already but Chrom is apparently both playable AND in Robin’s FS now. Do you guys think most FS characters that are detailed enough and aren’t ATs have a chance? Like Bass, Fiora etc?

Probably not Dunban or Tom Nook though...

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, Katalina to me just screams the kind of character that would be an assist trophy.

 

[Iridium]

Only footage I could find (poor me). The quality isn't very good, but you can see Ash-Greninja for a second, although the FS isn't successful.

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a **** about the Marvel side of MvC.
Now that Marvel's owned by Disney and they have to deal with all that corporate bull**** like in MvCI, I wish Capcom would just split off and make their own Capcom all-stars fighting game.

When Capcom vs. Capcom,

A Capcom fighting game featuring just Capcom characters could work, if done properly. As long as it's not Capcom Fighting Evolution 2 then I'll be happy, that game was not very good

I would still love to see a Nintendo vs. Capcom at some point, and hopefully bring in characters from the Nintendo side of things that aren't playable in Smash to compensate, and the Capcom characters would all pull from characters who've been featured on Nintendo systems, which even then there are a ton of excellent choices you could go with.

 

[Deleted member]

So uh

This may have been discussed already but Chrom is apparently both playable AND in Robin’s FS now. Do you guys think most FS characters that are detailed enough and aren’t ATs have a chance? Like Bass, Fiora etc?

Probably not Dunban or Tom Nook though...

Chrom could bring some debates because of that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What the **** K.Rool's up smash spikes. Like, how many situations is a player going to go "Yeah lemme do this laggy planking and hope to god I hit em with the crown despite having 2 other spikes on Bair and Dair"

 

[Deleted member]

YES WE GOT TWILIGHT OF THE GODS IN SMASH!!!!!

Even if it's a remix of the NES song I'm totally cool with it because it doesn't even sound like an NES song. But if it's the SoV version I might actually die from being too excited.

Y'all have fantastic taste in FE music.

...can we get Vs. Arvis or Lionheart Eldigan in Smash too?

WAIT WHAT
SOURCE, GIVE ME THE SOURCE

 

[Kuon]

From what I've heard Incineroar is way bigger of a deal over in Japan than he is in the West, but he still has fans here much like Ridley probably does in Japan also I'm pretty sure the "Captain America" thing was a rumor being spread around anyway.
And who's to say demand for a Grandblue character would even drum up here in the states and other western countries when it breaks out of Japan? People might be more receptive of Katalina at best, but that's about it.

I never said she was, I said she was niche everywhere else. I can also understand that would be beneficial for Nintendo and Cygames, and can also see why it would be sort of baffling if they were going for worldwide appeal otherwise.

True, but not every DLC character has to be worldwide appeal. If they think the DLC character will sell well, then they just might put that character in, even if it sells well in just one country. And who knows? The upcoming Granblue Fantasy game may come out in the West before Katalina is released as DLC, which would increase her chances of the DLC being bought by those of us in the west. This is assuming that she's actually going to be DLC. And I know you didn't say she was niche in Japan. I was simply saying that she wasn't niche in Japan.

 

[kylexv]

I highly doubt that all of the DLC for this game will be leaked. There will probably still be a few surprises in store. Here's what hasn't been leaked the past 2 games:

• Rosalina
• Greninja (to an extent)
• Robin and Lucina
• Cloud
• Corrin and Bayonetta
• K. Rool
• Every new echo fighter except Ken
• Piranha Plant

What I'm hoping is that Nintendo learned from the Roy/Ryu datamine fiasco and will better hide upcoming DLC fighters within the game's code.

 

[staindgrey]

I mean yeah, but if the DLC characters were going for MAX APPEAL like some people seem to think, why would Nintendo be fine with a character that only appeals to a subset of the market?
I wouldn't care about Katalina, in fact I would probably play her because Sakurai can make me like anything, but it's sort of an oxymoron.

So here's an argument I could make for Katalina (who, by the way, I have NO IDEA who she is other than she's from some mobile game).

I was the manager of a local furniture store, worked there for five years. We're basically the only store in town who offers such a large selection of locally made, customizable sofas. We offer other things too, but those sofas are what get people to walk in the door.

Now, there are other, smaller local manufacturers besides the primary one we work with. And we could round them up to continue to appeal to the people already coming for the sofas we already have. But we never have. Why? Because we've already got that market cornered. Rarely, if ever, will someone say, "Wait, you guys don't have _____? We'll go somewhere else." So instead, when we looked for new inventory, we looked at other product lines entirely to dip our toes into a new market. Things like heavier emphasis on high-end (overpriced) decor and occasional furniture, or locally made mattresses, stuff like that.

The parallel here is that Nintendo could decide, "Okay, we're not gonna sell significantly more than we would already will if we cater to the hardcore group we've already got. Why don't we expand to something outside of our norm to try and drag fans of this popular mobile game into our game?" And there's a solid argument to that considering the Switch, particularly in Japan, is directly competing with phone games for the portable/mobile market. Maybe get big Katalina fans to purchase a Switch.

The counter argument would be that the hardcore fans wouldn't buy her, and there's merit to that. But I ask this: how many people have blindly bought the season pass already? How many tournaments will have how many Switches with all DLC purchased in case someone wants to play DLC characters? How many people will treat Smash like a fighting game and not fanservice-the-game and purchase her because she's got a unique kit? There's merit to an argument that Nintendo has more to gain by picking a character way outside expectations-- like Katalina.

 

[Idon]

A Capcom fighting game featuring just Capcom characters could work, if done properly. As long as it's not Capcom Fighting Evolution 2 then I'll be happy, that game was not very good

I would still love to see a Nintendo vs. Capcom at some point, and hopefully bring in characters from the Nintendo side of things that aren't playable in Smash to compensate, and the Capcom characters would all pull from characters who've been featured on Nintendo systems, which even then there are a ton of excellent choices you could go with.

Nah, if it's just characters that have appeared on Nintendo systems as a restriction, I wouldn't want that.

I want to see Dante, Vergil, Nero, Trish, and Lady all in and exactly zero of them have had an actual main appearance on a Nintendo console.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What the **** K.Rool's up smash spikes. Like, how many situations is a player going to go "Yeah lemme do this laggy planking and hope to god I hit em with the crown despite having 2 other spikes on Bair and Dair"

One thing's for sure, it's gonna be popular for taunt parties...

 

[Idon]

What the **** K.Rool's up smash spikes. Like, how many situations is a player going to go "Yeah lemme do this laggy planking and hope to god I hit em with the crown despite having 2 other spikes on Bair and Dair"

It's a disrespect move.
A powerplay.
Like using Ganondorf's uptilt.

 

[Deleted member]

My friend would probably love to see a Pokémon boss like Rayquaza, or even a new one.

Do you think that a Pokémon boss is likely?

 

[DarthEnderX]

"Banjo/Geno/Isaac shouldn't be in because not a lot of people would care about them."
"Katalina is fine even though Granblue has barely any clout outside of Japan."
Y'all need to rethink these arguments because that doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

It's definitely not possible that it's two separate groups of people making those arguments.

Do you think that a Pokémon boss is likely?

If Petey with the cages is back, and freakin Galleom is back, I'd say there's a good chance Rayquaza will come back.

 

[Iridium]

What the **** K.Rool's up smash spikes. Like, how many situations is a player going to go "Yeah lemme do this laggy planking and hope to god I hit em with the crown despite having 2 other spikes on Bair and Dair"

Well, has 4 on his own, so...

 

[Starbound]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a **** about the Marvel side of MvC.
Now that Marvel's owned by Disney and they have to deal with all that corporate bull**** like in MvCI, I wish Capcom would just split off and make their own Capcom all-stars fighting game.

When Capcom vs. Capcom,

Can we get Capcom vs Nintendo?

Capcom has too many good IPs that I'll be dead by the time they all get into Smash.

 

[Idon]

It's definitely not possible that it's two separate groups of people making those arguments.

Holy **** yes.
I'm so sick of this strawman where a guy posts two quotes from two different people and complains about hypocrisy.

Like, no ****, in a community of multiple millions of people, you're going to have a lot of people with different opinions.
DUH.