Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Radical Bones]

Laura Croft is a character I can actually see making it into Smash, not going to lie.

Laura Croft, Lara's accountant cousin.

 

[Wyoming]

To put it simply, if Goku gets in due to the ballot, then it's only fair we put in the obvious 2nd place as well.


You know, some-body once told me the world was gonna roll me. That I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

But she was lookin' kinda dumb with her finger and her thumb in the shape of an L on her forehead.



Really, if Goku gets in because 'muh ballot' then Shrek or other stupid choices like Pepsiman have just as much of a shot, and at that point we need to question if we've passed the point of no return.

Yeha but unlike Shrek and Pepsiman, Goku has legitimate support and demand too. He's not only just a meme.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Laura Croft is a character I can actually see making it into Smash, not going to lie.

As much as I love her and want her in it's not exactly likely due to her realistic firearms. And it's Lara btw

What's the correlation here? Tekken isn't Smash.
Anyway, if we're talking about non-video game characters in Smash Bros., absolutely none of them deserve to be in.

Except for one. Hear me out. It'll never happen in a million years, but regardless...

Spoiler

Mickey Mouse.

Disney has had a stock in the video game industry for a long time, all the way back to the Game & Watch days. There have been numerous Disney games on almost every single Nintendo console, whether it be NES to Wii U, or Game Boy to 3DS. Not to mention, Disney's collaborated with nearly every other company represented in Smash as well, whether it be:

• The numerous other Disney games on the SEGA Genesis, or the Castle of Illusion remake
• Namco making Disney Magical World
• Konami working on Disney Tsum Tsum
• Square Enix and the Kingdom Hearts series
• Capcom and their work on tons of Disney games, most notably Ducktales

Also, it'd be worth it just to see who would win in a fight: the King of Video Games or the King of Animation?

Once again, it'll absolutely never happen, but it's fun to be wishful.

Mickey mouse is literally the most iconic character in existence, I wouldn't be mad at all, although i seriously doubt disney would let them put him in a fighting game of all things

 

[Shroob]

Yeha but unlike Shrek and Pepsiman, Goku has legitimate support and demand too. He's not only just a meme.

Personally, I feel like the Goku support is a big meme, but that's my opinion.

 

[Pyra]

At this point, everyone's fanbase is a big ol' meme.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Thats not the point. There is no connection.

The main argument against Goku is that he isn't a video game character, yet an equally, if not more respected, franchise got a much less popular nonvideogame character into their roster. If a semi-nobody like Negan can get into one of the most respected fighting games ever, how can we actually say Goku has a 0% chance to get into Smash?

Thats what I'm saying. It seems like a Sakurai move and if other Japanese devs are doing it, Rwby in BBTAG/Negan in Tekken 7, then what makes you think Sakurai "is above that" or whatever.

You are free to disagree but I genuinely think Goku has a shot. I don't see a legitimate reason why he can't be in Smash. "Shouldn't's" are subject.

Show me the rulebook. Do you mean the bull**** we make up for Smash? More and more are broken every iteration.

oh my god you're right about a nobody like Negan and there's also the Power Rangers crossover Street Fighter is currently doing I do NOT know how to feel about this post

 

[Shroob]

I personally think the Goku debate gets too heated and I don't think it's really that big of a deal if he or characters of non-video game origins in general were to make it into Smash, I really wouldn't mind if he made it in and don't quite see why a lot of people get so fervent in their opposition to his inclusion. But I always been one of those who don't treat the Smash roster as a sacred thing and thought the concept of who and who doesn't "deserve" to be on the roster to be silly, as opposed to just being a fun game full of characters the fans want to play.

I know Sakurai has laughed off the prospect of Goku being in Smash before, but he is always able to change his mind as he done so many other times, I think the real big issue to Goku's inclusion is licensing difficulties rather than Sakurai absolutely refusing to put any character of non-video game origins into Smash. That said I would be really shocked if it were to actually happen.

To me, it's simple.

Smash is a celebration of gaming history(Primarily Nintendo) through the years. To suddenly throw a random anime character would feel incredibly out of place.


For comparison: PSASBR and Jump Fighting games.

Even though PSASBR made a LOT of blunders, including no Spyro, Cloud, Snake or Crash, the game kept itself primarily to characters you'd relate to Sony and the Playstation. You didn't see Master Chief running around gunning down Dante or Big Daddy.

For Jump games, well you expect characters like Naruto, Goku, Luffy, etc... but if you threw in characters like, I dunno, Spike from Cowboy Bebop or Shinji from Neon Genesis Evangelion, they'd not only stick out like a sore thumb, but have nothing to do with Jump.


Smash can be stretched to be about 'gaming' in general, since we have characters like Cloud who has only ever been in Nintendo games as cameos, but if you start throwing in random anime or other characters like that, Smash stops being a showcase of gaming history and becomes, well, whatever Smash would be with ****ing Naruto and Sasuke angsting it up on Final Destination.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

My 2 cents is that Smash has always been about video games first and foremost.

Other fighting games have always had a habit of throwing in other things that clashes with their ideals(Movie Slashers in the Mortal Kombat world honestly makes 0 sense), but Smash has always been consistent in keep things pure.


The most 'out there' we've ever gone is Cloud, who's primarily a Playstation character, and I'd be fine with an XBox/PC character truth be told, but I honestly feel like Smash should stick to video games only.


It's a slippery slope if you throw in anime. Sure, you put Goku in this game, then people are gonna want Luffy, Naruto, Sasuke, Sailor Moon, Jotaro, Detective Conan, Spike, Lina Inverse, ****ing Idolmaster, Hatsune Miku, Haruhi, Shrek, Cory in the House, Ronald Mcdonald, Burger King, thot, etc etc etc


It's a slippery slope.

Exactly! It would ruin the purpose of what Smash is supposed to be about: popular and iconic video game characters battling it out on who is the best

 

[Mc.Rad]

At this point, everyone's fanbase is a big ol' meme.

In the eyes of the creator...


were all just memes

 

[Pyra]

Apparently @Harada_TEKKEN listened when someone asked him for sh!t. pic.twitter.com/qvEn3yYuUz

— Blaxamillian.bsky.social (@blaxamillian) August 5, 2018

Incredible.

In the eyes of the creator...


were all just memes

I mean yeah. Every single one of us.

 

[Bowserlick]

Tabuu seems like a Dragonball Z villain.

Maybe he'll be the boss (and possible playable character) in Smash ULTIMATE!

 

[Rockaphin]

Paper Mario or riot on Wednesday.

I'mma keep it real with you chief, we're probably gonna riot.

 

[DJ3DS]

Sora's still missing. We're all seriously sleeping on him. Dude placed as one of the top 5 characters expected to be in Smash in a major Japanese publication. I'd also say choices like Paper Luigi and Crankey Kong are practically nobodies, and shouldn't be on this list.

I think it's unfair to call Cranky Kong a nobody. On top of being the original Arcade DK (this is confirmed in Snakes Brawl codecs, of all things) he appears in every single DKC game as well as all of the Paon ones.

Sure I dont think he is a likely character by any stretch of the imagination (and that's not biased as I'd personally love to see him) but I do think you've sold him a little short.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Show me the rulebook. Do you mean the bull**** we make up for Smash? More and more are broken every iteration.

The bull**** that Sakurai has stuck with throughout Smash history, with only James Bonds getting close to that rule not existing

Even if he was actually viable, Sakurai (if he wants him in) would have to go through Akira Toriyama for permission to use the Sayian Warrior...also Nintendo history and Gaming in general are being celebrated in Smash, not everything

Don’t get me wrong, Goku in Smash would be ****ing amazing, but unlike Ridley/Villager/Daisy/Cloud, Goku doesn’t have a massive chance in getting in with his “non-gaming character” placement (if he was a gaming character first, then he’d have joined a decade ago)

 

[SvartWolf]

nah, this game isn't getting non video game characters, there is still plenty of videogame characters and honestly, very few resources left (or what ppl usually mistake by "slots") now.. say... ten years in the future, smash ultimate is such a great game (and recieved tons of support) that is simposible to do better, then we could probably end with a smash reboot, and in said reboot if they really NEED the shock factor, we may see a non video game originated character.

(With the sole exception of "Hatsune Miku" but i honestly don't see it happening)

and again... we are getting cultural icons, that are IMPORTANT to the videogame medium, say, goku, spiderman, darth vader, batman, geralt of rivia...but no superman, or Bender from futurama, or sadly korra, (or shrek...)

 

[Enderwoman]

Since Ultimate is coming out and it does look better than Smash 4, everyone loves to dump on Smash 4 in this thread.
Smash 4 did do some great things, like remove tripping, we got good DLC characters and characters in general, and FOR GLORY. Smash Run was also fun and customs were a great mechanic in the game.

Smash 4 gets dumped on because its an overall forgettable Smash game. It's best qualities like the newcomers are all being completely adopted by Ultimate and there's just no reason to stick by the game anymore. The good qualities are overshadowed by its mediocrity compared to previous titles. Most if not all its features are underwhelming or half baked, like custom moves and the single player modes. Most of the praise its mechanics got are ones it fixed from Brawl that shouldn't have ever been in the first place, and it still doesn't go all the way with it because it's still pretty floaty. The single player modes are intolerable, the UI is a mess, it lacks a distinct art style, the Wii U version has the worst stages in history and the soundtrack is forgettable.

 

[Pyra]

implying shrek wouldn't be top tier

 

[YoshiandToad]

Personally I don't want Goku in for the same reason I don't even like Dragonball crossing over with other franchises. Dragonball's full of universe destroyers, watching Pichu kick the **** out of him is just too damn weird for me.

To be honest Goku's so OP whenever I see a cutscene of him fighting Luffy it's like watching a grizzly bear fighting a hamster to me. And I prefer Luffy, but goddamn does it feel weird watching Goku fighting people he could crush by breathing hard on them somehow putting up a fight against him as he reaches his Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct Ascended God Super Saiyan 3 Blue Kaioken X 20 form.


Weirdly I only ever have this issue with Dragonball characters.

 

[Mc.Rad]

implying shrek wouldn't be top tier

Dude, Shrek isn't even high tier in Shrek Super Slam. I know since I was a part of that scene and he's just the worst...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

What's the correlation here? Tekken isn't Smash.
Anyway, if we're talking about non-video game characters in Smash Bros., absolutely none of them deserve to be in.

Except for one. Hear me out. It'll never happen in a million years, but regardless...

Spoiler

Mickey Mouse.

Disney has had a stock in the video game industry for a long time, all the way back to the Game & Watch days. There have been numerous Disney games on almost every single Nintendo console, whether it be NES to Wii U, or Game Boy to 3DS. Not to mention, Disney's collaborated with nearly every other company represented in Smash as well, whether it be:

• The numerous other Disney games on the SEGA Genesis, or the Castle of Illusion remake
• Namco making Disney Magical World
• Konami working on Disney Tsum Tsum
• Square Enix and the Kingdom Hearts series
• Capcom and their work on tons of Disney games, most notably Ducktales

Also, it'd be worth it just to see who would win in a fight: the King of Video Games or the King of Animation?

Once again, it'll absolutely never happen, but it's fun to be wishful.

Mickey mouse is literally the most iconic character in existence, I wouldn't be mad at all, although i seriously doubt disney would let them put him in a fighting game of all things

Personally, if we're going old-school Western inclusions, there is one I'd be perfectly fine with.

Spoiler

Popeye the Sailor Man! Toot-toot.

The main reasons being the following:

1. Once upon a time, Miyamoto sought to get the rights from King Features to make a video game based on him, but couldn't at the time, leading to Mario, Donkey Kong and Pauline, replacing Popeye, Bluto and Olive. Were it not for that, things would be very different at Nintendo, so Mario owes a lot to him.
2. His game by Nintendo did get made and had a decent amount of success, being released on anything in the Atari days. He also got an exclusive Game & Watch game, to boot.
3. He will become public domain within a few years, since his creator E.C. Segar has long since passed decades ago, making him more likely than ever before.

So really, he would be a true historical guest.

 

[MBRedboy31]

What's the correlation here? Tekken isn't Smash.
Anyway, if we're talking about non-video game characters in Smash Bros., absolutely none of them deserve to be in.

Except for one. Hear me out. It'll never happen in a million years, but regardless...

Spoiler

Mickey Mouse.

Disney has had a stock in the video game industry for a long time, all the way back to the Game & Watch days. There have been numerous Disney games on almost every single Nintendo console, whether it be NES to Wii U, or Game Boy to 3DS. Not to mention, Disney's collaborated with nearly every other company represented in Smash as well, whether it be:

• The numerous other Disney games on the SEGA Genesis, or the Castle of Illusion remake
• Namco making Disney Magical World
• Konami working on Disney Tsum Tsum
• Square Enix and the Kingdom Hearts series
• Capcom and their work on tons of Disney games, most notably Ducktales

Also, it'd be worth it just to see who would win in a fight: the King of Video Games or the King of Animation?

Once again, it'll absolutely never happen, but it's fun to be wishful.

Spoiler

But Mickey was already in Brawl and everyone forgot about him, same with Popeye

 

[Pyra]

Dude, Shrek isn't even high tier in Shrek Super Slam. I know since I was a part of that scene and he's just the worst...

I uh...
Wow.
My condolences. I didn't mean to bring up such bad memories.

 

[lordvaati]

implying shrek wouldn't be top tier

well in his own game he's among the Bottom tiers along with Donkey and Lil' Red Riding Hood a God Tier banned from tourneys so

 

[Noipoi]

While i'd be incredibly disappointed, I could get over Ashley not being playable.
But if Shrek got in over her? I can't even imagine my frustration.

 

[Pyra]

well in his own game he's among the Bottom tiers along with Donkey and Lil' Red Riding Hood a God Tier banned from tourneys so

I learned something today that I never imagined I would ever know.

 

[Noipoi]

Apparently there's a Shrek competitive scene.
Truth really is stranger than fiction.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Apparently @Harada_TEKKEN listened when someone asked him for sh!t. pic.twitter.com/qvEn3yYuUz

— Blaxamillian.bsky.social (@blaxamillian) August 5, 2018

Incredible.

Harada's an absolute madman. He got upset when someone posted a fake leak of Thomas the Tank Engine for Tekken, and devotes a full day every single year just to celebrating his waifu's birthday.

I love seeing creators play around with their fans. Makes me happy that Sakurai just did it not too long ago too.

Wow! Thanks a lot!

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) August 4, 2018

 

[Jetsurge]

While i'd be incredibly disappointed, I could get over Ashley not being playable.
But if Shrek got in over her? I can't even imagine my frustration.

I'd be so happy and I'd main Shrek for the rest of my life.

 

[MainJPW]

Personally I don't want Goku in for the same reason I don't even like Dragonball crossing over with other franchises. Dragonball's full of universe destroyers, watching Pichu kick the **** out of him is just too damn weird for me.

To be honest Goku's so OP whenever I see a cutscene of him fighting Luffy it's like watching a grizzly bear fighting a hamster to me. And I prefer Luffy, but goddamn does it feel weird watching Goku fighting people he could crush by breathing hard on them somehow putting up a fight against him as he reaches his Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct Ascended God Super Saiyan 3 Blue Kaioken X 20 form.


Weirdly I only ever have this issue with Dragonball characters.

Aren’t there some universal or highly powerful characters in Smash? That’s the impression I got when visiting the “Who’s canonically the most powerful character in Smash” thread.

You could say the same thing about certain characters in Smash itself, right?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think it's unfair to call Cranky Kong a nobody. On top of being the original Arcade DK (this is confirmed in Snakes Brawl codecs, of all things) he appears in every single DKC game as well as all of the Paon ones.

Sure I dont think he is a likely character by any stretch of the imagination (and that's not biased as I'd personally love to see him) but I do think you've sold him a little short.

I didn't mean to discount him as a character. I meant to say that he's a nobody in the speculation scene.

 

[Pyra]

Aren’t there some universal or highly powerful characters in Smash? That’s the impression I got when visiting the “Who’s canonically the most powerful character in Smash” thread.

You could say the same thing about certain characters in Smash itself, right?

Kirby is the second most powerful right behind Ultra Instinct Mario, and right after Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Mii Brawler.

 

[Jetsurge]

Call me crazy but I have a feeling we might be getting Banjo-Kazooie along with a Minecraft stage.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I uh...
Wow.
My condolences. I didn't mean to bring up such bad memories.

Nah it's ok, I was actually decent at the game (I just left because I never really jammed with the way it plays). It's not like Skullgirls where it's both dead and full of players who are so high skilled. I also do have a recorded match in a small online tournament before I went by Lisa Mc.Rad... but I think it's lost to the times or maybe that person deleted their youtube channel

 

[YoshiandToad]

Aren’t there some universal or highly powerful characters in Smash? That’s the impression I got when visiting the “Who’s canonically the most powerful character in Smash” thread.

You could say the same thing about certain characters in Smash itself, right?

It's not really as pronounced I guess. Sure Kirby and Sonic are mega overpowered when they reach their full power, but they don't blow up a planet and get declared the strongest being in the universe every single game. Hell, I can still find it believable that Mario could knock Sonic's stuffing out of him.

Meanwhile I cannot imagine Mario's punches affecting Goku at all. I can't explain it, but I think Dragonball went too far off the deep end with it's ridiculous OP feats as the main attraction of the series that it's just weird.

Closest feeling in Smash I have to that is Mewtwo being able to be destroyed by Pichu in Melee and now Ultimate.

 

[Murlough]

The bull**** that Sakurai has stuck with throughout Smash history, with only James Bonds getting close to that rule not existing

Even if he was actually viable, Sakurai (if he wants him in) would have to go through Akira Toriyama for permission to use the Sayian Warrior...also Nintendo history and Gaming in general are being celebrated in Smash, not everything

Don’t get me wrong, Goku in Smash would be ****ing amazing, but unlike Ridley/Villager/Daisy/Cloud, Goku doesn’t have a massive chance in getting in with his “non-gaming character” placement (if he was a gaming character first, then he’d have joined a decade ago)

I didn't say he had a massive chance. I'm saying has does have A chance.

• Sakurai is a human.
• Humans can/and often do change their minds.
• Sakurai can change his mind.

The fact stands that he did consider James Bond. If he was willing to consider it for James Bond why not a highly requested, very popular titan of media like Goku?

Once again, I'm not saying Goku confirmed. I'm just saying, I think its possible.

 

[SvartWolf]

Kirby is the second most powerful right behind Ultra Instinct Mario, and right after Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Mii Brawler.

if kirby abosrbs goku wouldn't that be like multiplying infinite by infinite?

Or maybe kirby should aborb cell and finally be able to be a Stier character

 

[Pyra]

It's not really as pronounced I guess. Sure Kirby and Sonic are mega overpowered when they reach their full power, but they don't blow up a planet .

nah but he can do this

if kirby abosrbs goku wouldn't that be like multiplying infinite by infinite?

Or maybe kirby should aborb cell and finally be able to be a Stier character

Kirby should absorb Buu and look almost no different except for the antenna.
I'm sure he'd be a happier little chocolate eater.

 

[Jetsurge]

Dude, Shrek isn't even high tier in Shrek Super Slam. I know since I was a part of that scene and he's just the worst...

Wow Shrek is super low tier. Little Red Riding Hood is the top character which is so random and I guess Human Fiona is the Zero Suit Samus of the game.
Edit: Apparently Little Red Riding Hood was this game's Meta Knight/Bayo. She's banned.

 

[Triangles]

Personally I don't want Goku in for the same reason I don't even like Dragonball crossing over with other franchises. Dragonball's full of universe destroyers, watching Pichu kick the **** out of him is just too damn weird for me.

To be honest Goku's so OP whenever I see a cutscene of him fighting Luffy it's like watching a grizzly bear fighting a hamster to me. And I prefer Luffy, but goddamn does it feel weird watching Goku fighting people he could crush by breathing hard on them somehow putting up a fight against him as he reaches his Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct Ascended God Super Saiyan 3 Blue Kaioken X 20 form.


Weirdly I only ever have this issue with Dragonball characters.

Yet, we still have a dog and duck being able to go toe to toe with a giant space dragon of death, a goddess of light, and of course, Kirby.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Kirby is the second most powerful right behind Ultra Instinct Mario, and right after Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Mii Brawler.

What about Fox facing to the right?