Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

So, are Echo Fighters now getting a bunch of hate that I missed or something?

It's Smash.

People hate everything in retrospect and no one is ever truly happy.

 

[Noipoi]

It's Smash.

People hate everything in retrospect and no one is ever truly happy.

I dunno man, i'm pretty happy.

Unless, I don't exist...

 

[Knight Dude]

So, are Echo Fighters now getting a bunch of hate that I missed or something?

Not from what I've seen. More people like Richter over Simon and Ken's been nothing but well received. Even Dark Samus is seen as the slightly better Samus in this game. Though she could have been real unique if they used her boss moves like the rapid fire.

I might use Dark Samus more if she meshes with me better than Samus.

 

[PeridotGX]

So, are Echo Fighters now getting a bunch of hate that I missed or something?

I haven't seen much. Maybe people are dissapointed that some have no gameplay difference.

Honestly i'm a little sad we got so few. I mean, literally take 's DMK alt, tatter the wings, and deepen the voice or something. There we go, we now have another echo fighter. just needs 4 alts to make the jump to being an Echo.

 

[Zinith]

...when's next time? What's happening?

Next Smash. idk I just needed an excuse to use that blessed gif...

 

[osby]

just needs 4 alts to make the jump to being an Echo.

And you know... any kind of mechanical difference.

 

[Idon]

And you know... any kind of mechanical difference.

Nah, just change his miscellaneous animations.
The differences between Daisy, Richter, and Dark Samus are extremely miniscule compared to the others.

 

[osby]

Nah, just change his miscellaneous animations.
The differences between Daisy, Richter, and Dark Samus are extremely miniscule compared to the others.

That's why I said "any kind of"

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't seen much. Maybe people are dissapointed that some have no gameplay difference.

Honestly i'm a little sad we got so few. I mean, literally take 's DMK alt, tatter the wings, and deepen the voice or something. There we go, we now have another echo fighter. just needs 4 alts to make the jump to being an Echo.

So, in other words, we're back at square one?

 

[KarneraMythos]

And you know... any kind of mechanical difference.

His suit cracks instead of his helmet.

Wait...

 

[PeridotGX]

And you know... any kind of mechanical difference.

Aren't ,, and purely cosmetic changes? But if more is needed, swap out the Purple Pikmin for Rock Pikmin and swap out Olimar's Ship for his (I'm not a Pikmin fan, I'm just going off what I've overheard)

 

[Wademan94]

I’m a little surprised she wasn’t considered for an echo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I dunno man, i'm pretty happy.

Unless, I don't exist...

Give it time sweet young child.

You too will be saying that Smash Ultimate was a trash tier game. Just like your fellow brethren.

 

[Noipoi]

I’m a little surprised she wasn’t considered for an echo.

I'm surprised Shadow wasn't an echo.

 

[RyuhoFox]

I dunno man, i'm pretty happy.

Unless, I don't exist...

You are secretly just a bunch of code that exists on this site. So secret even you dont know it.

 

[osby]

I'm surprised people were treating third party characters like locks until the last minute just because they can be clones.

 

[Knight Dude]

Aren't ,, and purely cosmetic changes? But if more is needed, swap out the Purple Pikmin for Rock Pikmin and swap out Olimar's Ship for his (I'm not a Pikmin fan, I'm just going off what I've overheard)

Dark Samus has an Up-Smash that hits lower at the start, allowing her to hit characters like Diddy Kong while Samus can't. Unless that was changed and I didn't know that.

 

[Idon]

Aren't ,, and purely cosmetic changes? But if more is needed, swap out the Purple Pikmin for Rock Pikmin and swap out Olimar's Ship for his (I'm not a Pikmin fan, I'm just going off what I've overheard)

Almost 1:1.
They're essentially alternate costumes, but there's some minor changes.

1. Richter's holy water does elemental damage rather than fire damage, meaning it won't set off bombs and the like.
2. Dark Samus has a slightly better roll and her phazon effects give a tiny bigger hitbox for moves that use it.
3. I think, nothing confirmed for daisy.

It doesn't actually matter at all, but hey, for some reason it's there.

 

[Knight Dude]

Almost 1:1.
They're essentially alternate costumes, but there's some minor changes.

1. Richter's holy water does elemental damage rather than fire damage, meaning it won't set off bombs and the like.
2. Dark Samus has a slightly better roll and her phazon effects give a tiny bigger hitbox for moves that use it.
3. I think, nothing confirmed for daisy.

I forgot about Dark Samus' roll animations. With these clone characters, I'm sure they'll be changed over time if they return between titles. Look at where Luigi, Falco, or Ganondorf started out as. They've branched out more and more each game from their original counterparts. Though yeah, it'd be nice if they were as different as Ken is from Ryu, no doubt about that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I forgot about Dark Samus' roll animations. With these clone characters, I'm sure they'll be changed over time if they return between titles. Look at where Luigi, Falco, or Ganondorf started out as. They've branched out more and more each game from their original counterparts. Though yeah, it'd be nice if they were as different as Ken is from Ryu, no doubt about that.

I think Ken and Chrom are special exceptions because one comes from a fighting game where he already has gameplay differences, and the other was influenced by the other Awakening echo+Sakurai thinking Chrom would just be something between Marth and Ike.

 

[Idon]

I forgot about Dark Samus' roll animations. With these clone characters, I'm sure they'll be changed over time if they return between titles. Look at where Luigi, Falco, or Ganondorf started out as. They've branched out more and more each game from their original counterparts. Though yeah, it'd be nice if they were as different as Ken is from Ryu, no doubt about that.

Or they could just go the Lucina Dark Pit route and keep them the same. Forever.
Which, I honestly think, is far more realistic.

Dark Samus is going to be forever tied to normal Samus and that's going to be pretty lame.

 

[Deleted member]

Echo Fighters are fine. They add fan favorites that don't take time to develop and a lot of them make sense. People are mad at them because deep down, they think they stole their wanted characters place on the roster. They can get over themselves.

 

[osby]

Dark Samus is going to be forever tied to normal Samus and that's going to be pretty lame.

You can just pretend she's not in the game, that's the only alternative, after all.

 

[Wademan94]

You know, why couldn’t some of the echoes have inherited some of the custom moves from the last game to differentiate them more?

 

[PsySmasher]

I'm surprised Shadow wasn't an echo.

Don't remind me...

I forgot about Dark Samus' roll animations. With these clone characters, I'm sure they'll be changed over time if they return between titles. Look at where Luigi, Falco, or Ganondorf started out as. They've branched out more and more each game from their original counterparts. Though yeah, it'd be nice if they were as different as Ken is from Ryu, no doubt about that.

Possibly... but then again, Lucina and Dark Pit are pretty much the same from Smash 4 in terms of their clone status, so who knows.

 

[osby]

Echo Fighters are fine. They add fan favorites that don't take time to develop and a lot of them make sense. People are mad at them because deep down, they think they stole their wanted characters place on the roster. They can get over themselves.

Some people are mad because they think they could've unique and... that's it I guess.

You know, why couldn’t some of the echoes have inherited some of the custom moves from the last game to differentiate them more?

Probably because customs weren't made with competitive balance in mind and most of them were pretty awkward.

 

[Idon]

Echo Fighters are fine. They add fan favorites that don't take time to develop and a lot of them make sense. People are mad at them because deep down, they think they stole their wanted characters place on the roster. They can get over themselves.

Nah, no one reasonable thinks they steal slots or whatever.
I just feel they aren't really true to the source material and they get stuck with their cloned moveset.

You know, why couldn’t some of the echoes have inherited some of the custom moves from the last game to differentiate them more?

Not just echoes.

Give Ganondorf his wizard's dropkick.
That single move was Ganondorf's saving grace

It's beautiful.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Probably because customs weren't made with competitive balance in mind and most of them were pretty awkward.

remember when charizard had that up-b that killed at 30

good times

 

[Knight Dude]

Well, I think there's more examples of clones being made more unique in the following games than there are ones that aren't. So there's always a chance.

 

[Idon]

Well, I think there's more examples of clones being made more unique in the following games than there are ones that aren't.

Well clones seem pretty fair game for continual changes. Even the doc got changes, for some reason.

Echoes though, seem like their entire point is not taking up a lot of resources.

 

[osby]

Well clones seem pretty fair game for continual changes. Even the doc got changes, for some reason.

Echoes though, seem like their entire point is not taking up a lot of resources.

Echoes seems like a reasonable conclusion of having over seventy characters. It really depends on which route next game roster will take.

 

[Wademan94]

Some people are mad because they think they could've unique and... that's it I guess.

Probably because customs weren't made with competitive balance in mind and most of them were pretty awkward.

Fair enough, but I mean they could’ve been the adjustments to balance out them in the transition to Ultimate, and I think some of them were viable and interesting like the Dropkick mentioned above.

Even the doc got changes, for some reason.

Hey! Don’t knock that d-air.

 

[Will]

Good lord, Pit plays so much differently in this game. He's actually pretty fun to use now.

But I'm only using for that sweet victory theme

 

[Knight Dude]

Well clones seem pretty fair game for continual changes. Even the doc got changes, for some reason.

Echoes though, seem like their entire point is not taking up a lot of resources.

I guess. But to me clones and echoes are essentially the same. Even if Dark Pit and Lucina didn't get a ton of unique elements, others have like Doc, as you mentioned. Along with the gradual changes Luigi, Falco, Lucas, and Ganon got. While T.Link and Y.Link have their own differences from Link and this is exaggerated a bit more now since Link has different bombs, no grappling hook, and a different FS.

Still, that's far off in the future, so it's nothing to worry about right this second. I do agree some customs could have been used for characters, especially in the creations of new echoes/clones. One of the reasons I wanted Protoman (aside from the fact that I like him as a character) is that he could be used as a great way to bring back Mega Man's customs like Beat, Ice Slasher or Shadow Blade, while letting Mega Man's base moveset remain similar to before. On top of having him take twice as much knockback like in MM9 and MM10.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Hey y'all. Been playing a lot when I get home from work. Finally unlocked all the characters tonight. I'm having a lot of fun with the game, but haven't really been drawn to coming here with the speculation down for the next few months probably.

So, has it been pretty dead?

 

[Zinith]

Hey y'all. Been playing a lot when I get home from work. Finally unlocked all the characters tonight. I'm having a lot of fun with the game, but haven't really been drawn to coming here with the speculation down for the next few months probably.

So, has it been pretty dead?

There's still the DLC characters mind ya...

 

[Idon]

Hey y'all. Been playing a lot when I get home from work. Finally unlocked all the characters tonight. I'm having a lot of fun with the game, but haven't really been drawn to coming here with the speculation down for the next few months probably.

So, has it been pretty dead?

No.
Less traffic, but not dead.

 

[NineS]

I dunno man, i'm pretty happy.

Unless, I don't exist...

Reality is a myth.
Free will is an illusion.
Without purpose there is anarchy.
Daisy isn't who you think she is.

2B makes happy. Go support 2B.

And Smash is also making happy.

 

[LetterO]

I do not know why but Isabelle angers me alot. I don't know if its her fishing rod, or the fact that she's unique instead of Dark Samus or Dark Pit, or the fact that I find the "innocent shouldn't be hurt" posts on her really annoying.

or ive just spent too long playing quickplay and it's the middle of the night and im just getting cranky at everything

 

[DevaAshera]

Guys, let me ask you all

Character you wanted to play the most pre-release
Character you've played the most
Character you're confident the most with so far
Character you picked up you never thought you would
Character you intended to play, but have dropped/put on hold
Veteran from a previous game you've used but aren't clicking with yet

Character you wanted to play the most pre-release
Character you've played the most
Character you're confident the most with so far
Character you picked up you never thought you would
Character you intended to play, but have dropped/put on hold
Veteran from a previous game you've used but aren't clicking with yet