Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TyrantLizardKing]

God can we stop with the Waluigi bashing

No. I've liked him since I was a child due to his goofy, dramatic mannerisms, his design, his general zaniness, and how much of a fun time he was. Screw off with that. I get it's cool to bash characters because of a bad chunk of their fanbase now, because I'm a Geno fan, but just stop.

This. This post right here. There are people who love Waluigi and want to see him in, enough of this "he's a meme" and "he's a side character". E3 drama is long behind us, Waluigi fans shouldn't be oppressed anymore.

 

[Idon]

People said this about Ridley.

People said this about K.Rool.

People say this about pretty much everyone really.

When you start to argue that people DON'T actually want something they're vocal about.... then you start to not look very smart.

Regardless, even if people just wanted him for the meme, is that a bad thing?

Yes.

You want to bring the entire CDi-Zelda cast into Smash?
It aint pretty.

 

[Sari]

I really hate when people assume Waluigi is only popular just because people like to meme him. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who genuinely wanted him in Smash way before the post E3 2018 memes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yes.

You want to bring the entire CDi-Zelda cast into Smash?
It aint pretty.

Show me proof people are vocal about bringing those characters in Smash.

EDIT:

Oh misread. nvm

 

[DraginHikari]

Waluigi is one of those character I have very little exposure to. I never was a real big into the Mario spin off games and frankly the Mario series is kind of one of those series I have very little desire to see more characters from in general. The reaction in regards to Waluigi usually results in more of a "Huh?" to me then anything. It's a fanbase I don't really get from my subjective perspective. I don't really disrespect the fanbase, I just don't get it, just like I did with Isebelle, I just don't get it lol.

 

[Noipoi]

Hurr Durr people only want Waluigi cuz memes

Give me a break...

 

[Deleted member]

Well you can fix the online matchmaking, but you can't fix the people with laggy connections who set their rulesets to 3 stock 3 minutes

 

[ClaTheBae]

I saw a suggestion for Terry Bogard and it just feels right considering how much KoF inspired Smash. Also I know it's a joke but **** off with that Fem Terry bull**** that game is creepy as **** and if you're going to change a big muscular man into a woman, keep the goddamn muscles

Also great to see some form of patch notes

Yeah like off topic but literally most fictional writers, especially those in video games, are very afraid to make a female character that won't be super popular in terms of sex appeal. The two faults with that logic are

1. You will be taken more seriously as a writer if you write and design characters realistically. The only people who will be upset if you sacrifice sexual appeal for realistic portrayals are most likely losers.

2. Non-traditionally designed female characters still have sex appeal to quite a few people.

 

[TheYungLink]

Dixie Kong, Toad, Bandanna Dee, Paper Mario, Waluigi. Once those guys are in, I think we can say just about all the biggest Nintendo names are here.

This seems to be more or less the definitive list. Even if Waluigi is liked mostly for the memes, he HAS become a character in his own right through all the Mario spin-offs like Daisy has. And he's been in Mario spin-offs for, what, almost 20 years?

As for Paper Mario I want him in more than anyone else, but I'd still put him under "would be cool to have" and not "feels wrong that they're not here".

Personally feel that way with classic Ganon too, maybe Impa and Paper Mario as well. Besides those I guess we have most of the all-stars present.

I like classic Ganon as well, and they're my most wanted along with Paper Mario, but I doubt Nintendo or Sakurai considers them big enough to be playable. Nintendo keeps trying to turn Ganon into a monster that reeks of evil and has almost no sentience, and that modern incarnation of him is hard to imagine playable, which is most likely what makes Sakurai overlook him. Nonetheless, I'm glad that at the very least the OoT version was made into a boss.

Still, Ganondorf is here and Ganon is his final smash, so as much as I'd like him I wouldn't consider him "missing" even if I personally would want a version of Ganon/dorf that is wholly original.

I'm gonna sound biased when I say this, but a Rhythm Heaven character.
The series is big in Japan, and I'm still surprised that it has yet to have a Smash rep.

I 100% believe that Smash needs a Rhythm Heaven character, but it still feels like we all want a "Rhythm Heaven rep" and can't quite agree on WHO it should be. In other words, the series is a big name, but none of the characters are. Maybe that's why a character still isn't in, though hopefully that could change with DLC.

 

[lordvaati]

Pft, yeah right, like they're going to somehow overhaul their entire online matchmaking system in less than a week post-launch.

"
Online Gameplay
・When matchmaking in Quickplay, the Format setting of your Preferred Rules will be
more highly prioritized. This may cause matchmaking to take more time, and there's
still no guarantee that you'll find a match that has your exact Preferred Rules.
・Increased the stability of the synchronous connection within Battle Arenas.
NOTE: Online features require a Nintendo Switch Online membership. "

Like I said, 90% chance. That was the #1 criticism all around, so they had no choice but to get it fixed ASAP. especially since Elite Battles is supposed to be their basis for future balance notes-can't really do that if it doesn't work at all my friend.

 

[KMDP]

Your game was just angry that Viridi wanted Mewtwo dead

Viridi was so harsh Mewtwo committed suicide.

Clearly, the game censored itself.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah like off topic but literally most fictional writers, especially those in video games, are very afraid to make a female character that won't be super popular in terms of sex appeal. The two faults with that logic are

1. You will be taken more seriously as a writer if you write and design characters realistically. The only people who will be upset if you sacrifice sexual appeal for realistic portrayals are most likely losers.

2. Non-traditionally designed female characters still have sex appeal to quite a few people.
View attachment 182896

Did I just see a pic from R34 used in a social commentary about character design?

Neat.

 

[Luigi The President]

So which Nintendo characters do we have left that aren't "would be cool to have them" but are straight up "feels wrong that they still aren't here yet"?

I'm a big Dixie Kong supporter but she's popular irrespective of that. So is Toad, either him or Captain Toad / Toadette. Bandanna Waddle Dee also feels like a strange absence even if I prefer other Kirby characters.

I see those 3 brought up all the time, but does anyone else feel that way with any other Nintendo characters?

Dixie Kong, Waluigi, some form of Toad, and Bandana Dee.
I'd say Paper Mario, but I know I'm very biased in that regard.

That's really it. Maybe Impa, but...that's pretty much it.

We're very lucky.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah like off topic but literally most fictional writers, especially those in video games, are very afraid to make a female character that won't be super popular in terms of sex appeal. The two faults with that logic are

1. You will be taken more seriously as a writer if you write and design characters realistically. The only people who will be upset if you sacrifice sexual appeal for realistic portrayals are most likely losers.

2. Non-traditionally designed female characters still have sex appeal to quite a few people.
View attachment 182896

As a dork who designs characters for his stories and often has to think about balancing realism and appeal when it comes to designing characters, I appreciate this post.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Am I the only one feeling we were actually very lucky to even get and? Had the fan demand not been strong with these two they probably never would had made the cut.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I like Waluigi because he's eccentric and weird in the Sports spin-offs. He's the only one who accuses others of cheating but he probably would cheat more than any of the other Mario characters ever would.

He's basically **** Dastardly for Mario and that's neat.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one feeling we were actually very lucky to even get and? Had the fan demand not been strong with these two they probably never would had made the cut.

Yeah probably. Sakurai directly cited overseas fan demand when he was talking about Ridley's inclusion during the E3 treehouse stream, and K. Rool's performance on the ballot apparently surprised both him and Nintendo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ridley is a character that appears often enough and is generally popular enough that eventually he would have made it. The only thing keeping him out was Sakurai's vision of how he needed to be.

K.Rool's absence in his series demanded the ballot though. I don't think he'd have been included without a big return otherwise.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And thanks to said popularity that Nintendo now acknowledges no doubt will our beloved King be making future appearances whether Mario spin-offs or Donkey Kong games.

 

[Noipoi]

Waluigi's on my list of things where if you don't like them we fundamentally can't be friends.

 

[DraginHikari]

K Rool was a weird one as a result of Nintendo seeming to forget that K Rool existed and seem oblivious to his importance to fans of the Donkey Kong series as a whole. Nintendo seems to have this habit being involved in the creation of character then immediately forgetting they exist.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm away at the moment, but I really gotta get this off my chest. I've never been so disappointed and apathetic to be a Smash Bros. fan, after seeing the recent reactions to the new patch notes and I ****ing knew that it would shift from one thing to another.

I expected Nintendo to give out 50/50 patch notes, and I was more surprised to hear about them working on the online situation. I'm glad to hear that and really only care about that. But seeing that the CPUs got weakened and now everybody shifting from complaining about online to literally patch notes itself makes me really disappointed. Not on Nintendo, but on the players.

Bless ****ing Mew2King for being the only top Smash player with an open mind. If we all had his philosophy, maybe we could've shown Nintendo what to fix, but just like I've said, the vocal people will always overpower where the real problems lie on.

And that ain't just it, either. When did hating and wishing characters like Banjo-Kazooie and Geno never get into Smash become the norm, cool thing? Do y'all really wanna end up like the Ashley guy? The fact that we still live in a timeline where some people say for example, Sora is more deserving than Banjo, is sad.

The game literally just came out for almost a week, yet it seems like the community can't handle it for that long, either. Upset and disappointed.

 

[skullkidfordlc]

"Different, surprising" & 3rd party:
Dragon Quest Hero (DQ)
Lara Croft (TR)
Dante (DMC)
Master Chief (H)
Doomguy (D)
Monster Hunter (MH)
Leon, Jill, or Chris (RE)
Steve (MC)

Longtime fan-demand & 3rd party:
Sora (KH)
Banjo (BK)
Geno (SMRPG)
Rayman (RM)
Crash (CB)
Tails (S)

1st party, not already an assist trophy:
Bandanna Waddle Dee (K)
Dixie (DK)
Gen 8 Pokemon (P)
Paper Mario (PM)
Toad (or Captain Toad/Toadette) (M)
Goomba (or Stack of Goombas) (M)
Chibi-Robo (CR)
Chorus Kids (RH)
KK Slider (AC)
Porky (EB)
Hades (KI)
Birdo (M)
King Boo (LM)
Impa (LOZ)
Tingle (LOZ)
Marx (K)

Already an assist trophy:
Waluigi (M)
Ashley (W)
Skull Kid (LOZ)
Shadow (S)
Shovel Knight (SK)
Midna (LOZ)
Isaac (GS)

Seemingly impossible:
Goku (DBZ)

 

[Deleted member]

Waluigi's on my list of things where if you don't like them we fundamentally can't be friends.

Waluigi and Wario are objectively the only right choices in Mario spinoff games.
Dry Bones is fine too

 

[SuperSceptile15]

So which Nintendo characters do we have left that aren't "would be cool to have them" but are straight up "feels wrong that they still aren't here yet"?

I wouldn't say this feels "wrong", but the lack of any new Xenoblade reps is kind of weird to me. I really love Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and am still a little bit sad Rex couldn't make it. Aside from that though, there aren't really any other first party characters that I absolutely want. More third parties would be ideal at this point.

 

[praline]

"Different, surprising" & 3rd party:
Dragon Quest Hero (DQ)
Laura Croft (TR)
Dante (DMC)
Master Chief (H)
Doomguy (D)
Monster Hunter (MH)
Chris or Leon (RE)
Steve (MC)

Longtime fan-demand & 3rd party:
Sora (KH)
Banjo (BK)
Geno (SMRPG)
Rayman (RM)
Crash (CB)
Tails (S)

1st party, not already an assist trophy:
Bandanna Waddle Dee (K)
Dixie (DK)
Gen 8 Pokemon (P)
Paper Mario (PM)
Toad (or Captain Toad/Toadette) (M)
Goomba (or Stack of Goombas) (M)
Chibi-Robo (CR)
Chorus Kids (RH)
KK Slider (AC)
Porky (EB)
Hades (KI)
Birdo (M)
King Boo (LM)
Impa (LOZ)
Tingle (LOZ)
Marx (K)

Already an assist trophy:
Waluigi (M)
Ashley (W)
Skull Kid (LOZ)
Shadow (S)
Shovel Knight (SK)
Midna (LOZ)

Seemingly impossible:
Goku (DBZ)

You forgot the best Resident Evil choice, Jill Valentine.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Do we have a list of what exactly was changed?

 

[Idon]

Smash Bros loves themed skins based on other characters for the playable fighters. I took a shot a guessing how they might look for Ren.
This is like, 500% self indulgence and hopes. pic.twitter.com/noDe3EM4fz

— CINEMACHINE ⚠️ 🍉 (@cinemachine_) December 7, 2018

Ah ****, this is really well done.

Ah ****, that Demi-fiend costume hurts my soul.

Ah. It's so good. Ah, it hurts.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

"Different, surprising" & 3rd party:
Dragon Quest Hero (DQ)
Laura Croft (TR)
Dante (DMC)
Master Chief (H)
Doomguy (D)
Monster Hunter (MH)
Chris or Leon (RE)
Steve (MC)

Longtime fan-demand & 3rd party:
Sora (KH)
Banjo (BK)
Geno (SMRPG)
Rayman (RM)
Crash (CB)
Tails (S)

1st party, not already an assist trophy:
Bandanna Waddle Dee (K)
Dixie (DK)
Gen 8 Pokemon (P)
Paper Mario (PM)
Toad (or Captain Toad/Toadette) (M)
Goomba (or Stack of Goombas) (M)
Chibi-Robo (CR)
Chorus Kids (RH)
KK Slider (AC)
Porky (EB)
Hades (KI)
Birdo (M)
King Boo (LM)
Impa (LOZ)
Tingle (LOZ)
Marx (K)

Already an assist trophy:
Waluigi (M)
Ashley (W)
Skull Kid (LOZ)
Shadow (S)
Shovel Knight (SK)
Midna (LOZ)

Seemingly impossible:
Goku (DBZ)

That feeling when you prefer the characters on the "Different and surprising third party" list, over the characters on the "Longtime fan-demanded third party" list

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I really hate when people assume Waluigi is only popular just because people like to meme him. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who genuinely wanted him in Smash way before the post E3 2018 memes.

I feel like Piranha Plant suffers from the same stigma now. So many of his fans are ironic and only like him for the "salt" aspect (HAHAHA a plant got in over Waluigi and Geno!). Not me, though. I genuinely love the character and his moveset and really look forward to maining him when he is released. I sort of like Waluigi and understand that he has his genuine fans as well. He isn't just a meme. He's a character that represents the underdog; the guy that's constantly picked on and chosen last to join groups. Yet despite being an underdog, Waluigi has his own unique brand of wackiness and charm that very few other characters possess. It would be cool if he got his own game where the goal is to cheat to win, as suggested by Charles Martinet before. Actually, I'd also love for Petey Piranha to get his own game where he leads an army of piranha plants. Nintendo has so much potential with the characters they own and I'd really like to see that potential be utilized more.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

"Different, surprising" & 3rd party:
Dragon Quest Hero (DQ)
Laura Croft (TR)
Dante (DMC)
Master Chief (H)
Doomguy (D)
Monster Hunter (MH)
Chris or Leon (RE)
Steve (MC)

Longtime fan-demand & 3rd party:
Sora (KH)
Banjo (BK)
Geno (SMRPG)
Rayman (RM)
Crash (CB)
Tails (S)

1st party, not already an assist trophy:
Bandanna Waddle Dee (K)
Dixie (DK)
Gen 8 Pokemon (P)
Paper Mario (PM)
Toad (or Captain Toad/Toadette) (M)
Goomba (or Stack of Goombas) (M)
Chibi-Robo (CR)
Chorus Kids (RH)
KK Slider (AC)
Porky (EB)
Hades (KI)
Birdo (M)
King Boo (LM)
Impa (LOZ)
Tingle (LOZ)
Marx (K)

Already an assist trophy:
Waluigi (M)
Ashley (W)
Skull Kid (LOZ)
Shadow (S)
Shovel Knight (SK)
Midna (LOZ)

Seemingly impossible:
Goku (DBZ)

I'm gonna be honest if Isaac and Geno didn't get in as playable 1st Party characters, I really don't see Bandanna Dee, Chibi-Robo, etc. Getting in at all.

You forgot the best Resident Evil choice, Jill Valentine.

Any RE character except Chris I'm cool with but Leon is objectively the best Resident Evil choice.

 

[Chrono.]

This would be hype as hell.

yo Sakurai can we do this pic.twitter.com/wiHgr3btF1

— Alex (@AlexChew_) December 14, 2018

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I still fail to see how Toad could be a fighter, I think being a part of Peach & Daisy's movesets is where he belongs. Toads are iconic but they have no reason to be playable if you ask me, no not even Captain Toad.

 

[Roberk]

The fact that we still live in a timeline where some people say for example, Sora is more deserving than Banjo, is sad.

There's nothing wrong with people saying that Sora is more "deserving" than Banjo to be in. Why wouldn't he be more "deserving" than Banjo? Tons of people love Sora and his series has been going ever since it started, meanwhile, Banjo has been dead in the water since the N64. If anything Sora really does seem more deserving than Banjo imo and having that opinion shouldn't be a "bad timeline".

 

[Idon]

I still fail to see how Toad could be a fighter, I think being a part of Peach & Daisy's movesets is where he belongs. Toads are iconic but they have no reason to be playable if you ask me, no not even Captain Toad.

Replace every Toad in that statement with Piranha Plant.
I could say the exact same thing about it being a background stage element and not even Petey Piranha should be allowed in.

 

[Deleted member]

Soooooo how's the online now?

Still bad? Better? Butternut squash?

 

[Luigi The President]

There's nothing wrong with people saying that Sora is more "deserving" than Banjo to be in. Why wouldn't he be more "deserving" than Banjo? Tons of people love Sora and his series has been going ever since it started, meanwhile, Banjo has been dead in the water since the N64. If anything Sora really does seem more deserving than Banjo imo and having that opinion shouldn't be a "bad timeline".

Nitpicking his post so precisely like this and also putting down Banjo's chances kinda shows me why he's so sad about the state of our fandom.
Not saying Sora does or doesn't "deserve" it more than Banjo, just saying.

 

[UberPyro64]

I think it'd be really cool if #Joker's alternate colours in #SuperSmashBrosUltimate are based off all his friends, so I drew some mock-ups!! I can't wait to see what he'll be like!
❤️⚡️🌹🖌️☄️💻🌷🔍🔷#Persona #JokerForSmash #JokerInSmash #SSBU #SuperSmashBros pic.twitter.com/5SK9RyqsOD

— shevi (@shevi_creates) December 7, 2018

I like the idea that Joker would have alt colors based on the rest of the Phantom Thieves (and Velvet Room Attendant).

The one above on this page is great too though.

 

[Deleted member]

Nitpicking his post so precisely like this and also putting down Banjo's chances kinda shows me why he's so sad about the state of our fandom.
Not saying Sora does or doesn't "deserve" it more than Banjo, just saying.

The word "deserve" being used with fictional pixel people that cannot feel or think things and are not even real is the real problem here.

 

[Deleted member]

There's nothing wrong with people saying that Sora is more "deserving" than Banjo to be in. Why wouldn't he be more "deserving" than Banjo? Tons of people love Sora and his series has been going ever since it started, meanwhile, Banjo has been dead in the water since the N64. If anything Sora really does seem more deserving than Banjo imo and having that opinion shouldn't be a "bad timeline".

It gets us nowhere but an endless circle where nobody wins and everyone complains.

I can say Rex and Pyra deserve to be in over Elma because of recent success too, but in the end, no one wins and it becomes a needless discussion that only is trying to make the other person have the higher ground over someone who wants their favorite character.