Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StrawHatX]

I'm betting that Geno was the one shot down, I don't see reason for Square to include him over any of the other properties they own. I've never found Geno likely and him as DLC doesn't make much sense imo because he hasn't been relevant for two decades.

I don’t really care who the Square rep is although I’d prefer it to be Geno, but I completely agree.

 

[Deleted member]

Looking it up, Geno’s character designers seem to still work at Square. But I’m not sure if they would count as the creators of the character here, and I can’t seem to find any work they’ve done past 2009.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Wait...do Geno's creators even work for Square anymore?

Here's our question as to if Geno was the one shot down.

Who even designed Geno?

 

[Deleted member]

Here's our question as to if Geno was the one shot down.

Who even designed Geno?

Seems like two people by the name of Kiyofumi Kato and Yuko Hatae. Both might still work at square. I found credits for them in games up to 2009, but can’t find any work they’ve done past that.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I got a gut feeling square used geno as leak bait

I don't buy that, to the average person Geno is a literally who. I see it being the other way where people scoff at this legally-jumbled Mario character getting in over all of these Square titans, only for Geno to wallop all of them and make the cut.

 

[PsySmasher]

In a suprise twist of events I do have something to add.

I recently was able to play some Smash Ultimate and I’ve compiled my thoughts on the newcomers I’ve played so far

Spoiler: Spoilers

K.Rool: He’s good. Has great aireals and has an insane recovery. He’s basically a huge rush down character
Ricter Belmont: Has a lot of starting lag on his moves, but had a great amount of range. He strangely gains more range in the air?I also found out that you can ledgegrab out of dash attack which looks so cool but I’m sure it’s useless
Incineroar: Suprised me on how good he is. He’s actually quite fast and his side B is great. Moves kill very well
Ridley: He kinda does have some slow aireals but his neutral B is fast... like faster than what you probably think it is. Jab also comes out very fast.

All in all keep eyes on K Rool and Incineroar. I played against a guy using inkling a lot but I think Inkling kinda has a lot of faults.

I find it kind of ironic that you say Incineroar is fast. When in fact he's the 2nd slowest character in the game, only being faster than , who isn't even out yet.

But I guess that's personal perception at play.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Makes it all the more exciting to play the game in less than a week!

 

[beans]

I'm not exactly Mr. Current events so forgive me for asking, but what's the deal with this supposed SE list? Where does it come from?
In the end, we can blame John Enix for whatever happens.

Verge's List of SE possible DLC:

Sora - Kingdom Hearts
Luminary - Dragon Quest
Erdrick - ^^^^^^
Slime -^^^^^^
Crono - Chrono Trigger
Geno - Super Mario RPG
Sephiroth - Final Fantasy 7

It was info from a DM, leaked by user Polar Panda.
Addendums, info from the same DM:

"Sora isnt in"
"Dont take Geno seriously"

There are also recent developments, indicating three characters of importance:

The denied one, wich the creator tried to talk SE into reconsidering
The leak bait, the leak bait
The real one

 

[TheCJBrine]

Tbh it sounds like Sora could've been the one who was shot down as well.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I got an idea. TEAM ECHOS OR TEAM BASE?

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Team Echo, by far...
The only echo that I don't like as much as the original is Dark Samus. But other than that, this was an easy decision for me

 

[dezeray112]

Based on the way Reggie Fils-Aime teased about something "special" possibly going to happen during the Video Games Awards on Thursday, I reckon we may get the announcement of the first DLC character. But who knows?

As for the mystery Square-Enix character, it is very hard to say who is going to be that character. But I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[LetterO]

I got an idea. TEAM ECHOS OR TEAM BASE?

: Equally bad
: Don't care about 'em too much.
: I like Dark Pit more
: I like Roy more
: I like Simon more
: I like Dark Samus more
: I like Ken more

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Tbh it sounds like Sora could've been the one who was shot down as well.

It could've been Sora, Geno, or the Dragon Quest character, or any of the Square characters for that matter. Until Fatmanonice is cleared to share what he knows (which he likely won't be), we won't find out. However, Sora seems most likely given that Verge shot him down in the leaked PM.

My guess would be Geno's the leak bait, Sora got shot down, and Dragon Quest is our rep. Reverse Sora and Dragon Quest for my second guess.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's our question as to if Geno was the one shot down.

Who even designed Geno?

I suppose that it would be someone related to the character design of the game, which involves some of the persons named in this screenshot.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Where did this information that one of the SE characters was Shot down and one was used as leak bait?

 

[ProudNintendofan]

Well, I know Ganondorf's final boss in his classic mode as well as Ryu and Zelda's.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Dragon Quest is probably ''No" and the creators were shocked. Let's be real. It's easier for Sakurai to work with these guys. They're all based in his homeland.

Disney is a company who prominently does business on the other side of the world. Sakurai might say no EASILY to them because of the travel involved and the sheer fact it's Disney. It's bound to take a while to talk and discuss a deal with them.

But Dragon Quest is all right there in his homeland and all right there in front of him is the popularity in his homeland.

Current theory? Sakurai said no to Dragon Quest because of the overwhelming popularity in only one part of the world. Creators were shocked because of how much of a big deal it still is despite this.

 

[Deleted member]

Where did this information that one of the SE characters was Shot down and one was used as leak bait?

Fatmanonice mentioned it in the Geno thread. Nekoo said they had info which might corroborate it depending on interpretation. (im trying to be careful to not make any also accusations and claims)

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I'm betting on either Geno or Sephiroth at this point. A DQ character was probably the one turned down immediately, while Crono and Sora may have never been seriously considered.

That makes sense. Considering Geno is the only option they don’t have to give a share of the profits to to anyone else, i’m betting on Geno

 

[beans]

Where did this information that one of the SE characters was Shot down and one was used as leak bait?

Recent developments from an user in the Geno thread, Fatnomice (im bad with names, dont judge me)

Edit: Ninja'd by Sigma'd

 

[BXBX]

I don't know if this is off-topic. But anyone know if the ssbu official guide will contain frame data/hitboxes? Or maybe if the smash wiiu had something similar? It looks huge so I have my hopes up.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

View attachment 180951

I suppose that it would be someone related to the character design of the game, which involves some of the persons named in this screenshot.

Between Kiyofumi Kato and Yuki Hatae, it's unknown/unlikely that Kiyofumi still works for Square Enix (they have no references past the early-mid 2000s), but Yuki likely does as they were credited for FFXV PC edition.

 

[kirbsmash]

Mainning Doc, Pichu (Maybe Pikachu), And Young.

I'm team base tho

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I’m not a person who cries much (i have a hard time in regards to that).

But the happiest moment in gaming for me was the Crash Bandicoot reveals at Sony’s E3 from 2016.

I saw this live, and i was close to crying while shaking and smiling.

The reveals of Metroid Prime 4 and Samus Returns, the video where Marvel announced the return of the Fantastic Four comics and my first time seeing Shin Godzilla where close... But that moment at E3 hasn’t been surpassed to this day in my eyes.

Infinity War or Telltale’s Walking Dead didn’t get you to cry?

I got an idea. TEAM ECHOS OR TEAM BASE?

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Team Pit

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Team Echo, by far...
The only echo that I don't like as much as the original is Dark Samus. But other than that, this was an easy decision for me

Pit alone makes Team Base victorious

 

[TheCJBrine]

dang.

Why isn't Super Paper Mario's Staff Credits music in Smash :S

 

[perfectchaos83]

Fatmanonice mentioned it in the Geno thread. Nekoo said they had info which might corroborate it depending on interpretation.

Recent developments from an user in the Geno thread, Fatnomice (im bad with names, dont judge me)

Interesting, link to the post?

Current theory? Sakurai said no to Dragon Quest because of the overwhelming popularity in only one part of the world. Creators were shocked because of how much of a big deal it still is despite this.

I'd like to say this, Nintendo made the list and if Nintendo made the List, I have a hard time thinking they would choose either Sora or Geno when they have financial interests in DQ being the publisher of most Nintendo titles in the West. That being said, I don't think Sakurai is one to deny one of the most influential series in gaming history due to it being not as popular overseas. Smash itself is essentially a gaming museum and I'd say DQ absolutely has a place in it, regardless of the popularity in non-asian territories.

 

[Deleted member]

Infinity War or Telltale’s Walking Dead didn’t get you to cry?

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Team Pit

Pit alone makes Team Base victorious

Haven’t played Walking Dead.

Infinity War didn’t, but The LEGO Movie managed to.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Between Kiyofumi Kato and Yuki Hatae, it's unknown/unlikely that Kiyofumi still works for Square Enix (they have no references past the early-mid 2000s), but Yuki likely does as they were credited for FFXV PC edition.

I don’t think it matters. Look at the Smash 4 DLC page. Cloud is not only copyrighted to Square Enix, but it specifically mentions the character designer in the copyright. The same thing is true of almost any listing for a Dragon Quest game. But Geno? The copyright on his Mii Costume literally only lists Square Enix. No character designer. No nothing.

 

[Deleted member]

Has the Smash comunity found Totaka’s Song in Brawl or Wii U already?

I may be wrong, but maybe it was in Smashville when Totakeke appeared there at night.

 

[beans]

Interesting, link to the post?


I'd like to say this, Nintendo made the list and if Nintendo made the List, I have a hard time thinking they would choose either Sora or Geno when they have financial interests in DQ being the publisher of most Nintendo titles in the West. That being said, I don't think Sakurai is one to deny one of the most influential series in gaming history due to it being not as popular overseas. Smash itself is essentially a gaming museum and I'd say DQ absolutely has a place in it, regardless of the popularity in non-asian territories.

Sakurai has already shown adversity to implement characters of a decent popularity in Japan but niche everywhere else, as shown by Takamaru.

I believe the post is around the 415-425 page in the Geno thread, sorry for no link.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Where did this information that one of the SE characters was Shot down and one was used as leak bait?

Fatmanonice stated that out of 7 SE reps only three were seriously considered and of them one was immediately shot down and the other was used as leak bait in this post:

The narrative we've been getting is that Square Enix has been exceedingly difficult to work with to the point that negotiations almost fell through all together for literally any SE content in the game. A number of people have come forward to tell us that this is more than likely. One person in particular reached out to "us" (referring to people in the know) in private, offering a narrative that was realistic and plausible.

Unless I'm green lit, I can't say specifics but the idea is that there were only ever 3 SE characters on the table. Square turned down one very early. The creators of the character were actually kind of shocked at how easily it was turned down and there was a brief rally between them to get Square to change their minds. Square didn't budge despite the efforts and the matter was dropped. Another character was said to go into negotiations but it's said that they don't know what happened after that point, just that it was seriously considered and the decision surrounding them was kept under wraps.

Nekoo shared some information that could corroborate this, and that's where we are currently.

 

[ClaTheBae]

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this is objectively correct

 

[Deleted member]

Ridley's Down B can catch get up roll if he's standing at the edge of the stage.
Very NICE.

Dragon Quest is probably ''No" and the creators were shocked. Let's be real. It's easier for Sakurai to work with these guys. They're all based in his homeland.

Disney is a company who prominently does business on the other side of the world. Sakurai might say no EASILY to them because of the travel involved and the sheer fact it's Disney. It's bound to take a while to talk and discuss a deal with them.

But Dragon Quest is all right there in his homeland and all right there in front of him is the popularity in his homeland.

Current theory? Sakurai said no to Dragon Quest because of the overwhelming popularity in only one part of the world. Creators were shocked because of how much of a big deal it still is despite this.

It wasn't Sakurai who said "no", supposedly. It was Square itself.
We know Nomura is biased towards his own creations, not throwing shade at the man, I understand him very well, but if anyone is gonna get surprised and angry at their own company telling their character isn't gonna be picked, it's gonna be Nomura. I doubt Geno's creator still cares enough about the character and Toriyama doesn't work within Square. Nomura is the only one that makes sense with the supposed story.

I also now realize that, if one of the remaining two was leakbait, meaning Crono/Sephiroth/the other DQ chars aren't leakbait, they could have easily been confused due to the artists/IPs and rumors started circulating.


Also, if Square talk has been going on for so long, it would make sense for their character to not only be revealed first but also early enough that some work could have been done on them already. Hmm...

 

[Nekoo]

Is this nekoo person trustworthy? and does he like bowling

I'll just say that, either I'm trustworthy, Or my luck is beyond everything we saw during the ultimate periods and tomorrow I play the lottery your choice.

>Defended the idea that everyone will be back, when like...90% of the thread was like "CUT WILL HAPPENS!" (There were echoes (ahaha) about having no cut at all for the next Smash)
>In July make a long meme about Chrom being an Echo when Sakurai explained Echo fighters
>The day before the August Direct, go ****post on 4chan about Chrom getting in. (Knew about Chrom)
>When everyone were debating about Decidueyes and Lycanroc I placed all of my chips on Incineroar (Knew about Incineroar)
>Directly said that the Box Theory was right BUT and even before Vergeben spoke, said that the Square-Enix characters have a high chance of being DLC
>Directly dissmissed every leak saying that Geno was base game, even if it made me look like an Anti-Geno (Knew that Geno wasn't on the base game)
>Honestly, why do you think I was directly against the ****ing Grinch leak day one? Even if I went "TeamMMMMH" while still making sure to show argument against it. (Literally anyone who knew a bit of information, knew that it was ****ing fake)

It totally sounds like I'm bragging.
Which I'am.

But no, more seriously.
I'm not like the ultimate insider, or whatever, heck, I'm not even someone who got the info "at the source" more like got it because of "Domino" effect.
I'm just a guy who ended up being at the right place, at the right time, and talk with the right persons.
Because in the end, what I know, I can only prove it once it's revealed, so, I'm as surprised as you guys when something it revealed.

For the Square-Enix characters,I know nothing you guys don't know now.
What I heard, since the names are now public and match what I know were:

>Sora - Who had conflincting information / said he was probably red herring -
>Geno - Who was said to be red herring -
>Crono (Why do you think I decided to bring him up multiple time?)
>DQ Hero - No name or games, just a DQ protagonist -

Once again, there people on this very thread who could verify what I say.
But then, I know nothing more, nothing else. Nada. 0.
I don't care saying this now, since the game will be out in a week, and I don't think I'll know anything more at all.

Which is why that PolarPanda stuff and SE news surprise me too.

 

[beans]

I don’t think it matters. Look at the Smash 4 DLC page. Cloud is not only copyrighted to Square Enix, but it specifically mentions the character designer in the copyright. The same thing is true of almost any listing for a Dragon Quest game. But Geno? The copyright on his Mii Costume literally only lists Square Enix. No character designer. No nothing.

Interesting.
While I did believe Geno was sole property of SE, most of its deals with designers and composers made me think otherwise.
Maybe SMRPG due to its nature with Nintendo interfered in the deals of ownership, or it was before such contracts were the company's normal ones.

 

[Cosmic77]

Okay, this is waaaay too much work for one character.

A lot of inside sources are saying we're getting a SE character. Let's just leave it at that instead of speculating over random details that won't bring us any closer to figuring out who said character is.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok here’s my theory:
Leak bait was Dragon Quest. This is why there were 3 DQ characters circulating, as it means if they were leaked it would make people think the SE rep is DQ when in reality it’s none of the 3 names. It would also make it easier to find out who dunnit, as you send different DQ characters to different departments.
Rejected character was Sora. Just seems to make the most sense based on the info we have. Perhaps Square knew Disney was a hassle to work with and turned down the idea. Nomura is understandably surprised.
Two seriously discussed characters are Geno and Sephiroth. They seem like the most sensible remaining choices left.

I don’t know how Crono fits in to this. Perhaps he was just an office rumour that got spread too far. Perhaps he’s also bait. Perhaps instead of Sephiroth he’s also being discussed seriously.
I’m sure my theory has plenty of holes in it, so if you see anything wrong with this please do tell me.

 

[ClaTheBae]

I'll just say that, either I'm trustworthy, Or my luck is beyond everything we saw during the ultimate periods and tomorrow I play the lottery your choice.

>Defended the idea that everyone will be back, when like...90% of the thread was like "CUT WILL HAPPENS!" (There were echoes (ahaha) about having no cut at all for the next Smash)
>In July make a long meme about Chrom being an Echo when Sakurai explained Echo fighters
>The day before the August Direct, go ****post on 4chan about Chrom getting in. (Knew about Chrom)
>When everyone were debating about Decidueyes and Lycanroc I placed all of my chips on Incineroar (Knew about Incineroar)
>Directly said that the Box Theory was right BUT and even before Vergeben spoke, said that the Square-Enix characters have a high chance of being DLC
>Directly dissmissed every leak saying that Geno was base game, even if it made me look like an Anti-Geno (Knew that Geno wasn't on the base game)
>Honestly, why do you think I was directly against the ****ing Grinch leak day one? Even if I went "TeamMMMMH" while still making sure to show argument against it. (Literally anyone who knew a bit of information, knew that it was ****ing fake)

It totally sounds like I'm bragging.
Which I'am.

But no, more seriously.
I'm not like the ultimate insider, or whatever, heck, I'm not even someone who got the info "at the source" more like got it because of "Domino" effect.
I'm just a guy who ended up being at the right place, at the right time, and talk with the right persons.
Because in the end, what I know, I can only prove it once it's revealed, so, I'm as surprised as you guys when something it revealed.

For the Square-Enix characters,I know nothing you guys don't know now.
What I heard, since the names are now public and match what I know were:

>Sora - Who had conflincting information / said he was probably red herring -
>Geno - Who was said to be red herring -
>Crono (Why do you think I decided to bring him up multiple time?)
>DQ Hero - No name or games, just a DQ protagonist -

Once again, there people on this very thread who could verify what I say.
But then, I know nothing more, nothing else. Nada. 0.
I don't care saying this now, since the game will be out in a week, and I don't think I'll know anything more at all.

Which is why that PolarPanda stuff and SE news surprise me too.

is waluigi in

its a joke

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Fatmanonice stated that out of 7 SE reps only three were seriously considered and of them one was immediately shot down and the other was used as leak bait in this post:

Nekoo shared some information that could corroborate this, and that's where we are currently.

I really hope that the one that was immediately shot down was Slime. That one is just ridiculous.

Honestly, because of the whole Disney thing, Sora is probably the leak bate.

That Leaves Geno, Erdrick, Luminary, and Sephiroth. I like to think he settled on Geno.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Nomura is currently quitely battling a sickness is he not?

I don't think he has time to be outraged or shocked that a character of his was turned down by Square.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Infinity War or Telltale’s Walking Dead didn’t get you to cry?

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Team Pit

Pit alone makes Team Base victorious

I used to use Pit a lot in Brawl, but after they got rid of that one move (Yes, likely the first one that popped into your head), I just lost interest in him. Dark Pit is also meh for me. That being said I feel meh about them equally. I don't really like one over the other...