Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

I should absolutely point this out even though it has nothing to do with smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Remember how king K. Rool got saved this might be another one of those scenarios if banjo wins

If Banjo had died a natural death i'd be content to let it lie, but I feel like the series should get another shot at life after Microsoft murdered it and then kicked around it's corpse.

 

[Foulds]

It won't matter reguardless. Even if that bear wins, Microsoft doesn't care.

where did I say anything about the poll mattering? I just said that it was a tough choice.

 

[Kuon]

Did you guys forget about Mother 4? It came out a few years ago, and the creator of that is currently working on Mother 5.

Really, Mother/EarthBound shouldn't be on this list at all.

Don't forget about Earthbound: Endings, the prequel to Earthbound: Beginnings

 

[Foulds]

Delete this please

me too

again

 

[Kuon]

If Banjo had died a natural death i'd be content to let it lie, but I feel like the series should get another shot at life after Microsoft murdered it and then kicked around it's corpse.

Well since Microsoft still owns it, another game might be just as much of a trainwreck as Nuts and Bolts... but hopefully I would be wrong

 

[Grunky Peep]

I should absolutely point this out even though it has nothing to do with smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Remember how king K. Rool got saved this might be another one of those scenarios if banjo wins

Half-Life will probably never come back, as Valve knows the demand for HL3 and still hasn't done anything.
Given who owns the rights to make Star Wars games, there should ABSOLUTELY NOT be another KOTOR.
New F-Zero would be incredible. Everyone's wants a certain character to be in Smash, but I just want my boy Falcon to show up in something that isn't Smash.
Microsoft doesn't care about Banjo. The developers of the original game tried to make a spiritual successor and it sucked hard.
Earthbound ended fine. Don't continue it, just port Mother 3 for the love of god.
As for Chrono Trigger and Jet Set Radio, I know basically nothing about those series, so I can't speak on their behalf.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

The Mother series concluded beautifully. Don't resurrect it only to screw it all up, please.

Concluded is definitely a better way of putting it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Did you guys forget about Mother 4? It came out a few years ago, and the creator of that is currently working on Mother 5.

Really, Mother/EarthBound shouldn't be on this list at all.

I'm still waiting for FATHER.

 

[Iridium]

They probably won't be too hot.

They require you to fire an arrow on a piece of land that's at least a 1/4 of fd away, for you to run up, pick it up, and then fire an arrow while still holding the arrow.

Seems like way too many steps for not enough reward.

It's why I wish they could be shield cancelled perhaps to be put away when he picks up the arrow, and allow him to still get the double arrow. I don't want to be stuck holding an arrow I'll probably not get much use out of, but at least they go far, which they always have.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I remember seeing something about Itoi saying he'd make Mother 4 and Mother 5, but only if game-development was his actual profession (he was a star or something).

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still waiting for FATHER.

FATHER, MoonBound, FATHER 3.

 

[Graizen]

And just like that, im going to sleep

 

[Deleted member]

I remember seeing something about Itoi saying he'd make Mother 4 and Mother 5, but only if game-development was his actual profession (he was a star or something).

Toby Fox is Shigesato Itoi confirmed.

 

[Grunky Peep]

Did you guys forget about Mother 4? It came out a few years ago, and the creator of that is currently working on Mother 5.

Really, Mother/EarthBound shouldn't be on this list at all.

Hey look, it's Ness Sans.

 

[Kuon]

me too

again

I'll get right on it... tomorrow

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Hey guys.
I just wrote up this essay that provides evidence for the possibility of my most wanted character (Reimu from Touhou) for Smash. Give it a read if you have the time

I'm finally done with that compilation I promised. It turned out a lot more comprehensive than what I originally planned. Any feedback or criticism would be greatly appreciated


Why would Nintendo choose Reimu?

Spoiler: Touhou is absolutely huge

Touhou is absolutely huge. But don't take my word for it. The Japanese fan convention, Comiket, has been dominated by Touhou for many years and has never been passed, until Kancolle's sudden rise overtook it. There are roughly 500,000 - 550,000 attendees to Comiket twice a year, making it the largest convention of its kind in the world. To put things into perspective, that makes it 3-4 times the size of San-Diego Comic con and 7 times larger than the largest PAX. While Touhou has been widely regarded as Queen of Comiket in the past, Touhou still remains highly ranked in terms of popularity, consistently placing within the top 5 of franchises present at the event each year. It is also important to establish that Touhou is owned by a single person, ZUN, making it an indie franchise at heart. The fact that Touhou is able to remain this popular without corporate backing speaks volumes on how beloved the franchise is.
There is also Reitaisai, which is a biannual convention dedicated entirely to Touhou. You can partly attribute Touhou's lower Comiket participation to the fact that many of Touhou's doujin turnout moved to Reitaisai.
Touhou is an untapped goldmine for Nintendo, and having that association will significantly drive sales.

Spoiler: Sources

https://www.comiket.co.jp/info-a/WhatIsEng201401.pdf <- also great if you want to learn more about Comiket
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/in...mbers-reveal-top-series-at-comiket-92/.119929
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/in...-holds-the-dojin-throne-at-comiket-94/.135012

Spoiler: Touhou has seen success on Nintendo platforms

Touhou Kobuto V was the 14th top selling e-shop game in Japan in 2017. In addition, in the month it came out, it was the second most downloaded game on the Switch, losing only to Super Mario Odyssey. Now that's pretty darn impressive, considering that this is a port of a low budget fanmade game with little to no marketing. Since then, more and more Touhou fangames are coming to the Switch, some even with Western releases.

Spoiler: Source

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._best_selling_digital_games_on_switch_in_2017

Spoiler: Reimu fills every requirement for a 3rd party inclusion

As far as I know, this is Sakurai's only statement on 3rd party characters

Spoiler: Sakurai's Three Rules on Third Party Characters

1. Manga characters will not join the battle (obviously).
While it’s true that we’ve added characters from other companies,
It’s not going to be anyone and everyone.

2. Smash is a game that’s made from everyone’s effort.
Both companies have to want the character to join the battle.
I need them to let me take charge of the character.
In order to fit the character into the world of Smash, I need them to allow me some artistic license.

3. The character must carry game history with them.
Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform.
At any rate, there will probably only be one or two more. –Toukouken #3
Source: https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

While one may bring up Sakurai's tendency to contradict his statements in the past, these three rules have been more or less consistent with the third party picks we have. (With Bayo being the only outlier, whose inclusion can be attributed to ballot influence and Nintendo wanting to promote Bayo 2).
Reimu is obviously a video game character, so she's clear with the first rule. Reimu originates from the PC game Highly Responsive to Prayers (1996)
The second rule, I get into extensively in the next section.
The third rule on game history is what makes Reimu an incredibly strong candidate. With more than 16 games under her belt, she predates other popular indie picks like Shovel Knight, Cave Story and Shantae. Her franchise has left a huge mark on otaku culture in general.

Why would ZUN want Reimu in Smash?

Spoiler: Touhou's competition and ZUN's philosophy

As mentioned in the first point, due to the recent Comiket numbers, Touhou is no longer at the top when it comes to fan content in Japan. While it is easy to place the blame on Reitaisai, it is hard to ignore the recent mobile trend that dominates Japan. Touhou's main competitors such as Kancolle, FGO and idolm@ster, have become deeply rooted in mobile gacha games, which has boosted their accessibility and reach to new generation audiences. Touhou, on the other hand, has always been PC based, which is a niche platform at best in Japan.
The reason why you don't see any Touhou gacha on mobile is because of ZUN's personal philosophy on handling his franchise. In order to keep Touhou in the hands of the community, ZUN's has been known to be adamant on keeping Touhou away from corporations, as he does not want any other company to get any form of rights over his franchise.

Spoiler: ZUN wishes to work closely with Nintendo

Now, ZUN's stance on corporations has become lenient over the years. Touhou has made guest appearances in the latest Taiko Drum Master games (note: which are published by Bandai-Namco), and has seen releases on the Nintendo Switch, Playstation 4, and Steam.

Spoiler: Source powered by Google translate

http://theylivewesleep.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-50.html?sp
Z: " Wowwow Well ... in the future ... Well ... I wish I could make a good talk with Nintendo-san, it was today's broadcast that makes me feel such a dream. "
Z: " I want to make friends with Nintendo, not only Sony is making friends "
Z: " Because Toho is not so much something, there is a healthy Toho world "

This is a 2016 interview with ZUN on a Nico livestream regarding Touhou music appearing on a 3DS game. Although this is a rough machine translation, it implies that ZUN would be completely willing to collaborate with Nintendo in the future, as it will be beneficial for the Touhou franchise. It is also important to note that having Reimu in Smash does not go against ZUN's philosophy. At the end of the day, a Smash inclusion is merely a guest appearance, and Nintendo nor Sakurai would not hold any form of rights over the franchise moving forward. As shown with Sakurai's treatment with Pac-man, Mega man and Simon Belmont, it is clear that Smash remains incredibly faithful to their third party characters, having movesets that embody the classic feel of the character. If Reimu were to be playable, she would undoubtably be treated with the same amount of respect.

Spoiler: ZUN has positive opinions on Nintendo

ZUN is a gamer at heart. In an interview from 2016 about Super Mario Maker, he mentions that he grew up with Nintendo, having fond memories of the Super Mario Bros. series in particular. While this is nothing groundbreaking, it shows that ZUN has sentimental value towards Nintendo, and further supports the possibility of a collaboration in the future.

Spoiler: ZUN wants to bring Touhou to the West

Spoiler: DualShockers Interview: 2016

https://www.dualshockers.com/touhou...ast-present-and-future-of-his-touhou-project/
A: Will we ever see more official Touhou games in the West?
Z: It’s something that I’ve been thinking about for a long time, and it’s something that I want to do. It really just comes down to finding the time to do it.

This interview with ZUN shows that he is interested in officially bringing Touhou to the west, and I believe Smash is the perfect avenue to to do that. As it stands, Touhou has a bit of a cult following when it comes to the West, with the official subreddit /r/touhou holding 24k subscribers at the time of writing this. Smash is well known for bringing forth the most obscure gaming franchises into the limelight. Fire Emblem's popularity can be attributed to Marth and Roy's inclusion in Melee.
Reimu's inclusion Smash may be just what the series needs to reclaim its position at the top. It will benefit Touhou by giving it mainstream exposure, and would be the perfect avenue to introduce Touhou to the West and to the younger generation, without going against ZUN's philosophy.

 

[Peeton]

Alright so hear me out guys, this character has NO chance to be in the game but I think it’s be neat!

Frisk (the main character) from Undertale! They’d be fun and I’m sure Sakurai and the team would make them unique! And as a surprise reveal, Kris from Deltarune as an echo! I kinda want Undertale and Deltarune content just for the music! What do does everybody think?

 

[Deleted member]

Alright so hear me out guys, this character has NO chance to be in the game but I think it’s be neat!

Frisk (the main character) from Undertale! They’d be fun and I’m sure Sakurai and the team would make them unique! And as a surprise reveal, Kris from Deltarune as an echo! I kinda want Undertale and Deltarune content just for the music! What do does everybody think?

I'd prefer Sans Undertale as a Ness echo

 

[Idon]

Hey guys.
I just wrote up this essay that provides evidence for the possibility of my most wanted character (Reimu from Touhou) for Smash. Give it a read if you have the time

Touhou and Reimu I feel are the most likely things no one here's talking about purely because:
"... the **** is a touhou?"

****'s big, guys.
Like, it has a con dedicated to just it.

 

[Grunky Peep]

Alright so hear me out guys, this character has NO chance to be in the game but I think it’s be neat!

Frisk (the main character) from Undertale! They’d be fun and I’m sure Sakurai and the team would make them unique! And as a surprise reveal, Kris from Deltarune as an echo! I kinda want Undertale and Deltarune content just for the music! What do does everybody think?

If anybody from Undertale gets in, it'll be Sans.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I remember seeing something about Itoi saying he'd make Mother 4 and Mother 5, but only if game-development was his actual profession (he was a star or something).

If I recall correctly, he's actually a copyrighter?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Frisk with Chara as an echo could be cool, but I'd rather have Sans & Papyrus.

If I recall correctly, he's actually a copyrighter?

Probably, I just remember something about him being an actor; I know he voiced a character in a movie; "My Friend-" something, forgot the "friend" because I've never actually watched it.

 

[Noipoi]

Touhou and Reimu I feel are the most likely things no one here's talking about purely because:
"... the **** is a touhou?"

****'s big, guys.
Like, it has a con dedicated to just it.

All I know about Touhou are Yukkuri.
It's weird.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

but only if game-development was his actual profession (he was a star or something)

Haha, yeah. His career is very complicated...

I'll get right on it... tomorrow

...Could you delete me too?

 

[Kuon]

Hey guys.
I just wrote up this essay that provides evidence for the possibility of my most wanted character (Reimu from Touhou) for Smash. Give it a read if you have the time

I think Touhou would be great in Smash, especially with how popular it is. And I think the best of both worlds would be to have Touhou and the idolm@ster as DLC, since the idolm@ster was made by Bandai Namco. Who's to say we can't get the idolm@ster as the Namco rep? (I'm just really biased towards the idolm@ster since it's one of my favorite series ever). And you said that ZUN wants to bring Touhou to the west, but there already are Touhou games in the west, even on the Switch. Or did you mean they want to popularize it in the west? Either way, I think Touhou would be a great addition to dlc

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Probably, I just remember something about him being an actor; I know he voiced a character in a movie; "My Friend-" something, forgot the "friend" because I've never actually watched it.

Itoi used to search for ancient gold, dude has had a lot of careers in his life-time.

 

[Noipoi]

Hey guys.
I just wrote up this essay that provides evidence for the possibility of my most wanted character (Reimu from Touhou) for Smash. Give it a read if you have the time

I know next to nothing about Touhou, but I wouldn't mind it.

 

[Zinith]

Interesting official pose time!!!

Spoiler

 

[TheCJBrine]

I only know Touhou because of stuff talking about it in regards to Undertale.

heh.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

I think Touhou would be great in Smash, especially with how popular it is. And I think the best of both worlds would be to have Touhou and the idolm@ster as DLC, since the idolm@ster was made by Bandai Namco. Who's to say we can't get the idolm@ster as the Namco rep? (I'm just really biased towards the idolm@ster since it's one of my favorite series ever). And you said that ZUN wants to bring Touhou to the west, but there already are Touhou games in the west, even on the Switch. Or did you mean they want to popularize it in the west? Either way, I think Touhou would be a great addition to dlc

You are right about it being released in the west, but those are only fangames so many people don't really count those. The context in that particular interview was for an official ZUN game in the West.

 

[CallMeKnux]

I would absolutely love to see Reimu in Smash. I like the Touhou characters a lot from what little I've seen, she could have an interesting moveset, and would bring in salt from "**** ANIME LOL" epic gamers.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Alright so hear me out guys, this character has NO chance to be in the game but I think it’s be neat!

Frisk (the main character) from Undertale! They’d be fun and I’m sure Sakurai and the team would make them unique! And as a surprise reveal, Kris from Deltarune as an echo! I kinda want Undertale and Deltarune content just for the music! What do does everybody think?

idk whom that is specifically...but...

I'd prefer Sans Undertale as a Ness echo

what he said

 

[Kuon]

You are right about it being released in the west, but those are only fangames so many people don't really count those. The context in that particular interview was for an official ZUN game in the West.

Ooooh okay, I didn't know they were fan-only games. I mean, I knew there was one fan-made game on the PS4 (since I played it in 2016), but the Touhou game I saw was a physical copy of the game on the Switch, and was being sold at GameStop, so I thought it was official. I didn't know they sold fan games at game stores

 

[Noipoi]

Zelda is today's fighter, and Pac-Land is today's stage, by the way.


Today's Fighter
#17: Zelda
You might recognize Zelda's look from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds game. In battle she uses magical moves to reflect and teleport, and for her Final Smash, she seals her opponents away in the Triforce of Wisdom. If an opponent has 100% damage or more, they will be instantly KO'd!

PAC-LAND

Today's Stage
PAC-LAND
This is an auto-scrolling stage where the scene continuously changes. There are also a few hidden features from the original arcade version of PAC-LAND, so try to find them!

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate the Shovel Knight supporters?

They've been taking their boy's appearance as an assist trophy very well...

True that, we have been. The very fact that we've got indie stars like Shovel Knight and Shantae in is remarkable.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I would absolutely love to see Reimu in Smash. I like the Touhou characters a lot from what little I've seen, she could have an interesting moveset, and would bring in salt from "**** ANIME LOL" epic gamers.

Seeing someone like Saber or Reimu get in would bring in the ultimate salt from Goku fans, and I need to see that in this lifetime.

 

[Deleted member]

Zelda is today's fighter, and Pac-Land is today's stage, by the way.


Today's Fighter
#17: Zelda
You might recognize Zelda's look from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds game. In battle she uses magical moves to reflect and teleport, and for her Final Smash, she seals her opponents away in the Triforce of Wisdom. If an opponent has 100% damage or more, they will be instantly KO'd!

PAC-LAND

Today's Stage
PAC-LAND
This is an auto-scrolling stage where the scene continuously changes. There are also a few hidden features from the original arcade version of PAC-LAND, so try to find them!

Ah, good old Pac-Land. Though I prefer to go by it's other name, "Why couldn't we get Pac-Maze instead?"

 

[Idon]

Seeing someone like Saber or Reimu get in would bring in the ultimate salt from Goku fans, and I need to see that in this lifetime.

Nah, the ultimate salt would be Erdrick.
Just zoom in on the face of this character

And then sloooooowly zoom out to reveal it's not Dragonball.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

Avatar change for the occasion. We're only about 2 weeks away from release and I'm maining K. Rool one way or the other. Super pumped to play as him and figure out all sorts of things.

True that, we have been. The very fact that we've got indie stars like Shovel Knight and Shantae in is remarkable.

Honestly I'm surprised that Shovel Knight or Shantae got in as anything, let alone both of them. It's super cool that they did though! Smash Bros. makes miracles happen.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Is Magnus from KI still MIA?

Along with Medusa, Phoenix Wright, Adelieine, and the likes of Funky Kong he is, yes, last I heard.

 

[R O F L]

Zelda is today's fighter, and Pac-Land is today's stage, by the way.


Today's Fighter
#17: Zelda
You might recognize Zelda's look from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds game. In battle she uses magical moves to reflect and teleport, and for her Final Smash, she seals her opponents away in the Triforce of Wisdom. If an opponent has 100% damage or more, they will be instantly KO'd!

PAC-LAND

Today's Stage
PAC-LAND
This is an auto-scrolling stage where the scene continuously changes. There are also a few hidden features from the original arcade version of PAC-LAND, so try to find them!

Can't wait for 99 stock, all items, 8-player PAC-LAND.