Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

I mean... what FE character could there even be? If Rex, whose game came out in 2017, was too new there's no way in hell they could do that axe girl from the new FE considering her game didn't even come out yet. The only way I can see it is if the DLC really wasn't decided until recently AND Nintendo told Sakurai to leave a slot open for this character who didn't even come out yet which I HIGHLY doubt

Have I introduced you to our lord and savior Celica?

 

[PsySmasher]

I mean... what FE character could there even be? If Rex, whose game came out in 2017, was too new there's no way in hell they could do that axe girl from the new FE considering her game didn't even come out yet. The only way I can see it is if the DLC really wasn't decided until recently AND Nintendo told Sakurai to leave a slot open for this character who didn't even come out yet which I HIGHLY doubt

I originally though this as well, but I considered the possibility of FE being in the same situation as Pokemon, where they save a spot for the most recent iteration of the series.

The one Nintendo newcomer from Smash 4 DLC was Corrin (who was in around the time Fates was being released worldwide), so I wouldn't be surprised if FE became the DLC equivalent of Pokemon.

 

[staindgrey]

I mean... what FE character could there even be? If Rex, whose game came out in 2017, was too new there's no way in hell they could do that axe girl from the new FE considering her game didn't even come out yet. The only way I can see it is if the DLC really wasn't decided until recently AND Nintendo told Sakurai to leave a slot open for this character who didn't even come out yet which I HIGHLY doubt

The weird thing about XC2 is it's too new AND too old.

If Nintendo wanted Rex & Elma in Ultimate, they would have had to give Sakurai something to work with as early as 2015. Character designs, animations, proof of concept, all that. For an RPG of that scope that released in 2017, that would have been a really big ask. What they give Sakurai in 2015 could be completely changed in a year.

At the same time, now it's old enough that Nintendo might consider it not worth adding a XC2 character, since they might not benefit enough from new sales of the game. FE Three Houses, on the other hand, could benefit from exposure through Smash as it (presumably) is coming out in 2019, and with the game being much closer to release than XC2 was, there's likely much more content for Sakurai to draw from.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If Gen 1 isn’t your favorite then that’s onviously fine. I myself like Gen 3 the best. But that isn’t the point.

Let’s Go isn’t for the hardcore specifically. This is quite obviously an attempt to get the Pokémon Go crowd back into the mainstream games, and it’s imo a great idea. Not only is Gen 1 the most marketable/recognizable, but it capitalizes on what got players to come back in the first place.

I’m currently on the Celadon Gym, and i’m having lots of fun. I miss certain things from the mainstream games and would never want the Let’s Go model to replace it, but i’m enjoying it for what it is: a visualized version of the hardcore games.

I also just want Meltan. Well, and Melmetal too. Boy, am I in for some torture.

 

[Grunky Peep]

Have I introduced you to our lord and savior Celica?

I can already hear the angry anime sword fighter comments.

 

[staindgrey]

Last time I checked Nintendo wasn't the one putting 6 FE character to the game. Like, what connection those two have? Yes, Fire Emblem is going to get a new game, but it's not the only franchise that will.

Yep. For all we know, a new character from Metroid Prime 4, Bayonetta 3 or Luigi's Mansion 3 could be the newcomer.

Or, and this has been my prediction, we'll get a newcomer from a game we don't even know exists yet.

 

[lightdrago]

How is Let's Go, to anyone who played it? My copy is coming in tomorrow and I'd like some opinions?

and has anyone evolved meltan into Melmetal yet? I've looked up how to do it, but it seems annoyingly long to do so...

 

[Blargg888]

Oh hey, the highlight color changed to orange, that's interesting

Except Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are just returning veterans, and Ultimate already beat that out by bringing back . So really, Ultimate's DLC will be compared to For's in terms of the five character Fighters Pass versus .

Also, how are people already comparing Ultimate's DLC to For's? We don't know what the hell it is yet.

Don't forget PT and Wolf. Ultimate Brought back 6/7 cut veterans compared to Smash 4's 4. So it has already surpassed 4 in that regard.


Also, we do technically know some of what Ultimate's DLC entails.
P Plant, though a free bonus, is still DLC, so we know:

1/6 Characters
0/5 stages
and
0/? music tracks.

Even a little is still something.

 

[osby]

Oh hey, the highlight color changed to orange, that's interesting

Don't forget PT and Wolf. Ultimate Brought back 6/7 cut veterans compared to Smash 4's 4. So it has already surpassed 4 in that regard.


Also, we do technically know some of what Ultimate's DLC entails.
P Plant, though a free bonus, is still DLC, so we know:

1/6 Characters
0/5 stages
and
0/? music tracks.

Even a little is still something.

I thought they confirmed the number of new tracks in the fighter pass.

 

[Deleted member]

The weird thing about XC2 is it's too new AND too old.

If Nintendo wanted Rex & Elma in Ultimate, they would have had to give Sakurai something to work with as early as 2015. Character designs, animations, proof of concept, all that. For an RPG of that scope that released in 2017, that would have been a really big ask. What they give Sakurai in 2015 could be completely changed in a year.

At the same time, now it's old enough that Nintendo might consider it not worth adding a XC2 character, since they might not benefit enough from new sales of the game. FE Three Houses, on the other hand, could benefit from exposure through Smash as it (presumably) is coming out in 2019, and with the game being much closer to release than XC2 was, there's likely much more content for Sakurai to draw from.

I mean, Nintendo really really seems to want to push Xenoblade hard. Xenoblade 2is still one of the biggest Switch games, and the series is still decently new, so putting a Xenoblade character would be a great way to promote both this new growing franchise AND the Switch as a whole. Also, I feel like Sakurai would push hard for Rex considering Xenoblade 2 was like his game of the decade. I find it unlikely that Rex wouldn't be in if the DLC really has been planned recently enough for an unreleased FE character

 

[Deleted member]

I don't necessarily hate Dark Pit, but I would say he's my least favorite echo fighter. Had it not been for "EVERYONE IS HERE", Dark Pit probably would've been cut.

Not really, since he'd be literally the easiest character to include once Pit's finished :V

 

[staindgrey]

Oh hey, the highlight color changed to orange, that's interesting

Don't forget PT and Wolf. Ultimate Brought back 6/7 cut veterans compared to Smash 4's 4. So it has already surpassed 4 in that regard.


Also, we do technically know some of what Ultimate's DLC entails.
P Plant, though a free bonus, is still DLC, so we know:

1/6 Characters
0/5 stages
and
0/? music tracks.

Even a little is still something.

Oh right, totally forgot them. Whoops.

I really don't consider part of the DLC discussion since he's free, rather than part of the Fighters Pass-- and what we're ultimately discussing is which game's DLC is the better value-- but even then, there's practically nothing to compare. You have the entire list of everything Smash 4 released, and we're comparing it to an early incentive bonus and five blank spots.

It's like comparing apples to a box that you assume some other fruit is in.

 

[Blargg888]

That's a pretty high claim to say that the DLC will surpass those four. Those five other characters better be on the same level of caliber as Ryu and Cloud, then.

I never said that Ultimate's DLC will surpass 4's.

All I said was that Ultimate has a numerical advantage, because it doesn't have to worry about veterans.

It's certainly possible, but we have to wait and see.

 

[ZephyrZ]

As much as I don't want any new FE characters, considering Nintendo are the ones who decided the DLC I would be surprised if there weren't any.

I'm the opposite. I would happily take another FE character, but why are we all assuming Nintendo holds Fire Emblem to such a greater esteem then all their other franchises? I think them deciding the DLC makes a Zelda character or another Mario character much more likely.

But they've never been the ones to pick the roster before, so we have no way of knowing how this will turn out.

I originally though this as well, but I considered the possibility of FE being in the same situation as Pokemon, where they save a spot for the most recent iteration of the series.

Yeah I really kind of doubt this.
I get the feeling Corrin got in Smash 4's DLC because that wasn't planned as well in advanced, not because FE gets a dedicated "newcomer slot". It's obvious to see why Pokemon gets special treatment, but why would Fire Emblem?

 

[LetterO]

What echo you hate the most?

Honestly it's gotta be Daisy.

I don't like her. I find her extremely annoying. Her "Hi, I'm Daisy" line is admittedly a funny meme at times, but it's also mostly just super damn annoying.

 

[Chumpodile]

Off topic but for future reference, do you take commissions? If so what are your prices, your art is really good!

I don't really know how to take commissions, so I just take requests. I'll draw you whatever you want dude no worries.

I was lucky that I immediately realized that pokemon let's go was just quick moneygrab because of how "nostalgia" it was and the fact that it have pokemon go mechanic turned me off. Heck, when I saw the article on why we can't have jerk rival which makes me realize that there will be friendly rival of which I HATE most of all rivals most due to Hau from pokemon SM. I mean how can you expect your rival to be friendly in this new game?

Sad part for them is that I didn't play pokemon red when I was young, I just played Pokemon ruby,

Make a comment on my profile and i'll get around to you, G4M3RG1RL

 

[staindgrey]

I mean, Nintendo really really seems to want to push Xenoblade hard. Xenoblade 2is still one of the biggest Switch games, and the series is still decently new, so putting a Xenoblade character would be a great way to promote both this new growing franchise AND the Switch as a whole. Also, I feel like Sakurai would push hard for Rex considering Xenoblade 2 was like his game of the decade. I find it unlikely that Rex wouldn't be in if the DLC really has been planned recently enough for an unreleased FE character

To be clear, I'm not arguing that Nintendo won't put in Rex & Pyra. Simply stating likely reasoning for why they wouldn't if they didn't.

Considering how much DLC there is to be purchased even if someone bought a used copy (which is the primary reason most publishers choose not to push single player games once they're past their initial release), I can still see them putting Rex in the game as a newcomer. Something about the Rex costume, though, makes me doubt it. It just seems like an odd choice.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

If Gen 1 isn’t your favorite then that’s onviously fine. I myself like Gen 3 the best. But that isn’t the point.

Let’s Go isn’t for the hardcore specifically. This is quite obviously an attempt to get the Pokémon Go crowd back into the mainstream games, and it’s imo a great idea. Not only is Gen 1 the most marketable/recognizable, but it capitalizes on what got players to come back in the first place.

I’m currently on the Celadon Gym, and i’m having lots of fun. I miss certain things from the mainstream games and would never want the Let’s Go model to replace it, but i’m enjoying it for what it is: a visualized version of the hardcore games.

I also just want Meltan. Well, and Melmetal too. Boy, am I in for some torture.

If it was supposed to be a visualized version, I would have preferred if they had visualized Kanto from the ground up, a true 3D space like I imagined when I was young, not the same exact tile-by-tile map that I’ve played on four times before.

The presentation is just lacking. Compared to Nintendo EPD, which is giving us stuff like BotW and Odyssey, GF seems to be terrified of creativity for some reason. Ironically, the series has hardly “evolved” since the DS or even the GBA. Replacing wild battles with the GO catching mechanics is “fresh”, but only happened because it was developed by Niantic and then became a tried and true formula thanks to the popularity of GO, otherwise they would never have risked it.

I really hope the Gen 8 games are a leap forward, but I just don’t think it’s likely. Hopefully Town is a sort of tech demo for Gen 8.

 

[Aetheri]

Have I introduced you to our lord and savior Celica?

Celica's cool and all but I prefer Elma from XCX personally...

Spoiler

 

[Will]

That'd be quite an intriguing mockery to the Banjo fans... lol

>mockery
Explain.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'd like Daisy's presence more in Smash if she weren't an echo fighter to be honest.

Most of the echo fighters except her are sort of important to their franchise in a way.

But Daisy barely represents why she is important to the Mario franchise. The spin-offs.

And she just inherited those few things from Peach.

 

[Blargg888]

Oh right, totally forgot them. Whoops.

I really don't consider part of the DLC discussion since he's free, rather than part of the Fighters Pass-- and what we're ultimately discussing is which game's DLC is the better value-- but even then, there's practically nothing to compare. You have the entire list of everything Smash 4 released, and we're comparing it to an early incentive bonus and five blank spots.

It's like comparing apples to a box that you assume some other fruit is in.

True, though I do consider P Plant part of the DLC discussion.

Remember that P Plant is only free for people who bought the game before a certain period, and is otherwise a regular paid character.

The same occurred for Mewtwo back in 4. He was free if you registered both games with Club Nintendo before a certain period, and paid for everyone else.

Hell, even the same misunderstanding played out for both Mewtwo and PP, with some people then thinking you needed both copies to get Mewtwo, and some people now thinking that PP was only an early purchase bonus.

While it's true that P Plant is in a weird spot right now, by the end of Smash Ult's DLC release period, he'll just be another DLC character, like the rest.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm the opposite. I would happily take another FE character, but why are we all assuming Nintendo holds Fire Emblem to such a greater esteem then all their other franchises? I think them deciding the DLC makes a Zelda character or another Mario character much more likely.

But they've never been the ones to pick the roster before, so we have no way of knowing how this will turn out.
Yeah I really kind of doubt this.
I get the feeling Corrin got in Smash 4's DLC because that wasn't planned as well in advanced, not because FE gets a dedicated "newcomer slot". It's obvious to see why Pokemon gets special treatment, but why would Fire Emblem?

Let's just say that Sakurai's known to be a pretty big fan of Fire Emblem... so there may or may not have been some slight bias...

To be fair, it's his game. He can add whoever he wants...

 

[osby]

I'd like Daisy's presence more in Smash if she weren't an echo fighter to be honest.

Most of the echo fighters except her are sort of important to their franchise in a way.

But Daisy barely represents why she is important to the Mario franchise. The spin-offs.

And she just inherited those few things from Peach.

Eh, honestly, I'd be kinda annoyed if she was a unique character.

Let's just say that Sakurai's known to be a pretty big fan of Fire Emblem... so there may or may not have been some slight bias...

To be fair, it's his game. He can add whoever he wants...

Yeah, but like, they need to convince him to put Corrin to the game. It's not like he specifically wants to keep adding fighters from FE.

 

[staindgrey]

I've been saying it for some time, and since we're talking DLC now, I'll say it again:

One of the Fighters Pass characters will be from a Nintendo-published game we don't know exists yet.

In the Switch's lifetime, Nintendo has made an effort to not show off some of their biggest winter releases until the E3 prior. If this trend continues, that means that there's some big blockbuster coming this E3 of which we're unaware. Since DLC work has only just begun, and a game releasing next winter is certainly entering its final phase of development, the timing is ripe for Nintendo to put a newcomer from this unknown game into Ultimate as promotion. Imagine, say, a new franchise like Splatoon being announced at E3, only to be followed up with a Smash trailer starring that same brand new character.

EDIT: Oh hey, 2600 posts on the nose. Neat.

 

[Will]

But Daisy barely represents why she is important to the Mario franchise. The spin-offs.

And she just inherited those few things from Peach.

Sounds like that's someone else's job to represent.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Side Note: I find it a bit hilarious (and sad) that prior to the Grinch and November 1st Direct, a lot of people kept suggesting how amazing the potential DLC could be... only for most people to think that DLC is going to be going the opposite and potentially not even have a fan favorite (unless you consider Bandanna Dee to be one and you think he’s likely).

It would seem ridiculous for them to pick a bunch of characters nobody wants as the character you have to pay extra for.

That seems like a recipe for terrible DLC sales.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

>mockery
Explain.

I'm no Banjo fan, but I know they'd get pretty mad if the Microsoft rep was Steve...
Giving Steve his Banjo alt would be salt to an open wound, as Sakurai still acknowledges Banjo's existence, he just decides to choose Steve...

A lot of people wouldn't be happy... Especially after they had to deal with stuff like Nuts & Bolts (Btw, I actually enjoy that game, but don't tell anyone...)

 

[osby]

Sounds like that's someone else's job to represent.

But he already does that.

 

[Will]

I'm no Banjo fan, but they'd get pretty mad if the Microsoft rep was Steve...
Giving Steve his Banjo alt would be salt to an open wound, as Sakurai still acknowledges Banjo's existence, he just decides to choose Steve... A lot of people wouldn't be happy... Especially after the had to deal with stuff like Nuts & Bolts (Btw, I actually enjoy that game, but don't tell anyone...)

That's not mockery, that's salt.

But he already does that.

Yeah, that's the point.

 

[Deleted member]

To be clear, I'm not arguing that Nintendo won't put in Rex & Pyra. Simply stating likely reasoning for why they wouldn't if they didn't.

Considering how much DLC there is to be purchased even if someone bought a used copy (which is the primary reason most publishers choose not to push single player games once they're past their initial release), I can still see them putting Rex in the game as a newcomer. Something about the Rex costume, though, makes me doubt it. It just seems like an odd choice.

No, you're right, Rex barely has a chance. The only way he can be in is if Sakurai really didn't look at the list of newcomers he was given until he finished the main bulk of the base game, which I doubt since I bet some of the characters on that list were third party and getting licenses takes time. The list was probably created and given to him around the project plan, so around 2015. THEN we have to assume that Sakurai finished the mii costume, and then threw it in the Fighter's Pass because he wanted people to actually buy the character and not just the mii so he bundled them together. And THEN we have to assume that when Sakurai was apologizing for Rex being too late he meant Rex was only too late for the base game and not the roster as a whole. For Rex to be in there needs to be so many assumptions, some of which contradict things Sakurai said, that it's very very VERY unlikely for him to be in. I would love him in, he's my most wanted, but I don't think he has more then a 5% chance.

 

[Deleted member]

It would seem ridiculous for them to pick a bunch of characters nobody wants as the character you have to pay extra for.

That seems like a recipe for terrible DLC sales.

Except it's extremely presumptuous to assume no one wants a character.

Not being echo chambered to death by the Smash fan bubble =/= no one wants them.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That'd be quite an intriguing mockery to the Banjo fans... lol

I always find it infuriating when fans treat a partial inclusion as though it's some kind of insult, instead of the "better than getting nothing" that it actually is.

Except it's extremely presumptuous to assume no one wants a character.

Not being echo chambered to death by the Smash fan bubble =/= no one wants them.

No, but it probably does mean less want them. Less want = less sales.

 

[osby]

Except it's extremely presumptuous to assume no one wants a character.

Not being echo chambered to death by the Smash fan bubble =/= no one wants them.

It's extremely presumptuous to assume internet echo chambers aren't the only fanbase that needs to be satisfied and are the only fans that are allowed to rate the newcomers. /s

 

[staindgrey]

No, you're right, Rex barely has a chance. The only way he can be in is if Sakurai really didn't look at the list of newcomers he was given until he finished the main bulk of the base game, which I doubt since I bet some of the characters on that list were third party and getting licenses takes time. The list was probably created and given to him around the project plan, so around 2015. THEN we have to assume that Sakurai finished the mii costume, and then threw it in the Fighter's Pass because he wanted people to actually buy the character and not just the mii so he bundled them together. And THEN we have to assume that when Sakurai was apologizing for Rex being too late he meant Rex was only too late for the base game and not the roster as a whole. For Rex to be in there needs to be so many assumptions, some of which contradict things Sakurai said, that it's very very VERY unlikely for him to be in. I would love him in, he's my most wanted, but I don't think he has more then a 5% chance.

On the bright side: Cloud ****ing Strife had less than a 5% chance before he was announced.

 

[Deleted member]

No, but it probably does mean less want them. Less want = less sales.

Honestly, most people are gonna buy the DLC regardless of who it is out of the desire to have the complete roster.

 

[Will]

Banjo fans "grieving" would just remind me of that one tweet. Replace Ashley with Banjo and Castlevania with Minecraft or hopefully Halo.

 

[staindgrey]

Except it's extremely presumptuous to assume no one wants a character.

Not being echo chambered to death by the Smash fan bubble =/= no one wants them.

The Pokemon Let's Go games are a prime example of this. In the hardcore gamers' circles, it seemed like Let's Go would flop. But then it released and copies are sold out everywhere because, lo and behold, there are other people in the world.

Our community is a smaller piece of the pie than we often believe.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Banjo fans "grieving" would just remind me of that one tweet. Replace Ashley with Banjo and Castlevania with Minecraft or hopefully Halo.

View attachment 178522

I mean I wanted her in too but you've gotta be out of your mind to think Ashley deserved to get in over Simon ****ing Belmont.

 

[osby]

Banjo fans "grieving" would just remind me of that one tweet. Replace Ashley with Banjo and Castlevania with Minecraft or hopefully Halo.

View attachment 178522

That's the level of salt every popcorn should strive for.

Honestly, most people are gonna buy the DLC regardless of who it is out of the desire to have the complete roster.

Yeah, that's why I don't get so many people complain about not knowing the content.