Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

the inclusion of an actual animal confused me so much

It actually first happened in the anime with real fish. Which rarely happened otherwise. The card game often depicts anime stuff, so this isn't too surprising. The anime never hard followed the games.

 

[Will]

So First waluigi fans and now Ashley fans.

The only pure Wario gang is the Captain Syrup one.

 

[Deleted member]

First Waluigi fans, then Ashely fans. What's next, Geno fans going to be in a salty rage?
"WTF Sakurai?! Why is the DBZ-looking ******* in Smash over Geno when Geno is 10x relevant and iconic than him?! REEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't think people would like Pikachu having TWO clones who are joke characters. Remember, Detective Pikachu can't attack. The only way he would work if he's like Villager/Isabelle or WFT and most of his attacks don't look like attacks.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying CLONE Pikachu.

I'm saying make Detective Pikachu a Pokemon fighter who isn't purely just ''I use -THIS MOVE ON YOU-"

I don't think you particular have to say he would be like non-attacker fighters though.

He's still a detective who gets into trouble and has to use his wits to advance through his cases.

 

[Deleted member]

The only pure Wario gang is the Captain Syrup one.

I would like to see Mona too, like Syrup.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The only pure Wario gang is the Captain Syrup one.

Not trying to brag or anything, but we Mona supporters are pretty calm and collected...

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

The funny thing is, in all this long-winded debate of Banjo versus Steve over the past few months, I think I've convinced myself into wanting Halo instead.

I don't care about Steve, and Banjo & Kazooie was a game I liked as a kid. But Halo is a game I spent many weekend nights huddled around multiple TVs propped up on an old pool table to play capture the flag before passing out four Mountain Dews later to the looping Halo 2 theme song because none of us could be bothered to turn off the Xbox on the far side of the table. Halo 5 may have sucked and the series may be overstaying its welcome in a post-Bungie world, but it's a ****ing pillar of gaming and I'm suddenly all in on having Mario, Mega Man, Cloud Strife and Master ****ing Chief in the same game.

If there is one thing that would bring me to the hype levels of Ridley and K.Rool, it would definitely be Master Chief. Hearing the main theme of the first game at a cousin's house when I was a wee lass at five gave me chills, the good kind of chills and it still does to this day and its one of those games I just never forget.

 

[staindgrey]

Honestly--and maybe I'll be wrong in a year's time--I think this is very unlikely, if you're referring to a brand new IP. It took Inklings three years after their debut to get in, and all Splatoon got in Smash 4 was a Mii costume and a trophy. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a new IP would get a similar kind of representation, but if the reaction Corrin (coming from an already-established franchise in Smash) was a precedent (and we know for certain that there are limited DLC 'slots' this time), then people would lash out and despise them. Plus, including someone from something that might not even pan out to be a critical or commercial success would just be a bizarre business strategy, even from the advertising angle.

It certainly came off like I was guessing a new IP, but Splatoon was just an example to avoid putting a number at the end of it. I meant a new game in general. Something like, say, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, or that rumored Star Fox Grand Prix game. A game published by Nintendo that hasn't been announced yet at all, but has a new character they plugged into Ultimate for dual-promotion.

There's a difference between not being sure if a game will pan out and not being sure how much a game will sell, though. For instance, take their Pokemon reps. There's no telling if Greninja would flop as a pokemon or if that generation of Pokemon games would undersell, but Pokemon itself is a pretty hard guarantee of a multimillion seller. If Nintendo has such a guarantee up their sleeves for the 2019 Christmas season, a Smash fighter will A) likewise be guaranteed a significant amount of sales, and B) further promote their winter hit to outside audiences by featuring in one of Nintendo's other big games in advance.

The timing is simply right if Nintendo continues their recent trend of holding off major winter blockbuster trailers for the E3 prior.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's just say that the Isaac fans are likely soon to follow...

Oh boy. If Isaac fans start acting like this, my faith in humanity will plument even further than the already rock-bottom levels it's at.

 

[Will]

Not trying to brag or anything, but we Mona supporters are pretty calm and collected...

Nope, Ashley soiled all the WarioWare fans.
They're all sinners now.

 

[LetterO]

I'm going to be honest. I'd really love if we got another WarioWare rep, but I'd rather if it wasn't Ashley. I can't find stuff that actively sticks out about her besides being a magical person. WarioWare has alot of other characters that I'd prefer or find cooler. Jimmy T who could be a fun character who attacks with his dancing, 9-Volt with his retro throwbacks, and Mona with her many occupations that can translate into her moveset just to name 3. Ashley's support came out of nowhere in my experience and I don't understand her hype.

That being said, even if I don't get it, you Ashley fans probably do. Keep supporting her, even if I ain't really on board.

 

[KMDP]

Let's just say that the Isaac fans are likely soon to follow...

As an Isaac fan, I take offense to that.

But then I remember there were some users on the Isaac thread suggesting we spam Sakurai (not naming names, mostly because I don't remember who it was).

Fortunately, everyone else had more sense.

I think the window for Isaac fans issuing death threats has passed, and it didn't happen. So.....

 

[ZephyrZ]

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying CLONE Pikachu.

I'm saying make Detective Pikachu a Pokemon fighter who isn't purely just ''I use -THIS MOVE ON YOU-"

I don't think you particular have to say he would be like non-attacker fighters though.

He's still a detective who gets into trouble and has to use his wits to advance through his cases.

Even if he's a nonclone, I still don't think people would react well to another Pikachu in a funny hat from a series with 800+ other monsters to choose from and counting.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Because Echoes are easy to develop, ergo why Waluigi can't be plopped in for ease of development.

Also, Dark Samus arguably has it worse. The only Echo that's fine as is is Richter because that's literally his moveset.

You misunderstand me.

Let's say we get to Smash on the next Nintendo system.

Sakurai has returned. He has a desire to add representation for the Mario Sports Titles as well as Party, etc.

You have already a workload of other newcomers as well, but wait. There's a perfect Daisy model to just port over, touch up, and she's already prominent in spin-offs. You add her for her fans as well back when she was an echo fighter. Now you can do this.

Or you can make a fresh new detailed Waluigi model that's better than his assist trophy model or literally just promote Daisy to a unique moveset.

If I was trying to budget time and what would be best for the overall project? I might go ''Let's just give Daisy a unique moveset to make her different from Peach" over ''Let's add Waluigi and start from scratch."

Waluigi's only grace for addition now is demand for him and well that demand hasn't exactly been nice or kind to Sakurai. So he might not feel like he owes Waluigi fans any favors.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

As an Isaac fan, I take offense to that.

But then I remember there were some users on the Isaac thread suggesting we spam Sakurai (not naming names, mostly because I don't remember who it was).

Fortunately, everyone else had more sense.

I think the window for Isaac fans issuing death threats has passed, and it didn't happen. So.....

Okay, fair enough... my apologies...

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Isaac is so punished lol. Golden Sun was more lucrative after two games than both Fire Emblem and Xenoblade when they were first starting out, and yet it got completely abandoned. I guess it’s because Camelot is more profitable as a studio when it’s making more sports games, and nobody bought Dark Dawn, but still. If they wanted it to succeed, they could have done the same thing they did with FE and forced it to succeed, and we’d have a Warriors game and a mobile gacha by now.

 

[Dee Dude]

Ahaha nah.
Isaac fans are very chill from what I’ve seen, at worst they show frustration but they ain’t giving up.

I just hope my fellow Banjo supporters don’t take a bad turn if Steve happens.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Even if he's a nonclone, I still don't think people would react well to another Pikachu in a funny hat from a series with 800+ other monsters to choose from and counting.

And yet people can get over that, because much like ''WAAAAA GEN 1 WAAAA"

It'd be a case of ''He's a part of the literal mascot's legacy."

Mind you I did also say I'd be done for a random Pokemon chosen from those 800 plus monsters as well.

 

[staindgrey]

If by the thinnest of margins we get the Chief in Smash, I hope he'll come with more than two music tracks. *looks at Cloud*

I don't know who owns the rights to the original Halo music, but it might be difficult.

I assume that Halo 4/5 avoided the original Halo compositions because Martin O'Donnell continued to work with Bungie on Destiny. Whether he or Bungie owned the rights, that would be the motivating factor for discarding every prior theme when scoring for the new games. That said, Microsoft was still able to publish the Master Chief Collection with the music intact, and O'Donnell was fired from the Destiny project late in development. So.

These "who owns what" things are confusing.

 

[Deleted member]

I would love more Pokémon Ranger stuff in any form.

 

[KiBom]

I'm going to be honest. I'd really love if we got another WarioWare rep, but I'd rather if it wasn't Ashley. I can't find stuff that actively sticks out about her besides being a magical person. WarioWare has alot of other characters that I'd prefer or find cooler. Jimmy T who could be a fun character who attacks with his dancing, 9-Volt with his retro throwbacks, and Mona with her many occupations that can translate into her moveset just to name 3. Ashley's support came out of nowhere in my experience and I don't understand her hype.

That being said, even if I don't get it, you Ashley fans probably do. Keep supporting her, even if I ain't really on board.

I'd love Jimmy T. Would be the new king of disrespect.

 

[Gentlepanda]

It certainly came off like I was guessing a new IP, but Splatoon was just an example to avoid putting a number at the end of it. I meant a new game in general. Something like, say, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, or that rumored Star Fox Grand Prix game. A game published by Nintendo that hasn't been announced yet at all, but has a new character they plugged into Ultimate for dual-promotion.

There's a difference between not being sure if a game will pan out and not being sure how much a game will sell, though. For instance, take their Pokemon reps. There's no telling if Greninja would flop as a pokemon or if that generation of Pokemon games would undersell, but Pokemon itself is a pretty hard guarantee of a multimillion seller. If Nintendo has such a guarantee up their sleeves for the 2019 Christmas season, a Smash fighter will A) likewise be guaranteed a significant amount of sales, and B) further promote their winter hit to outside audiences by featuring in one of Nintendo's other big games in advance.

The timing is simply right if Nintendo continues their recent trend of holding off major winter blockbuster trailers for the E3 prior.

I guess it all depends on when the DLC was decided. As discussed to no end, Sakurai's specific wording on Rex (and the ambiguity of his tweet, which seems to have potentially meant "the roster has already been decided" from some translations of the original Japanese) makes me think DLC characters were selected and put aside as far back as the project plan in 2015. Nintendo might have made some suggestions with foresight (I don't think it's a coincidence that we have two new Metroid reps with Prime 4 coming up), but to coordinate specific character releases with games years in advance strikes me as less likely.

 

[Will]

You misunderstand me.

Let's say we get to Smash on the next Nintendo system.

Sakurai has returned. He has a desire to add representation for the Mario Sports Titles as well as Party, etc.

You have already a workload of other newcomers as well, but wait. There's a perfect Daisy model to just port over, touch up, and she's already prominent in spin-offs. You add her for her fans as well back when she was an echo fighter. Now you can do this.

Or you can make a fresh new detailed Waluigi model that's better than his assist trophy model or literally just promote Daisy to a unique moveset.

If I was trying to budget time and what would be best for the overall project? I might go ''Let's just give Daisy a unique moveset to make her different from Peach" over ''Let's add Waluigi."

Waluigi's only grace for addition now is demand for him and well that demand hasn't exactly been nice or kind to Sakurai. So he might not feel like he owes Waluigi fans any favors.

The issue with that is that everyone already needs a new updated design for the next console, less they look pretty outdated compared to the rest of the cast. Chrom is not only a playable character, but also an accessible final smash, but the models are the same. Dark Samus and Isabelle have updated designs, but relatively nothing too jarring to change. Everybody is graphically changed to suit the situation, whether just a graphical enhancement or whatnot. Considering all characters may not even come back in the next game as Sakurai described before, both are equally possible scenarios, and your only points are subjective ones of what you would do, not what was more realistic or the most probable scenario.

 

[Idon]

If you wanna add a Detective character, use Gumshoos
His name is literally just "detective"

Spoiler

This is the exact same situation that happened with Pikachu Libre in Pokken where they went with a 2nd Pikachu instead of the actual luchador Pokemon

Spoiler

Again, his name LITERALLY has the word "Lucha" from "luchador" in it.

 

[Will]

Isaac is so punished lol. Golden Sun was more lucrative after two games than both Fire Emblem and Xenoblade when they were first starting out, and yet it got completely abandoned. I guess it’s because Camelot is more profitable as a studio when it’s making more sports games, and nobody bought Dark Dawn, but still. If they wanted it to succeed, they could have done the same thing they did with FE and forced it to succeed, and we’d have a Warriors game and a mobile gacha by now.

Listen, Chibi-Robo could get into Smash but he ain't getting a new game after Zip Lash **** on everything he had.

 

[Gentlepanda]

If you wanna add a Detective character, use Gumshoos
His name is literally just "detective"

Spoiler

This is the exact same situation that happened with Pikachu Libre in Pokken where they went with a 2nd Pikachu instead of the actual luchador Pokemon

Spoiler

Again, his name LITERALLY has the word "Lucha" from "luchador" in it.

Detective Gumshoe for Smash!

He can do it when it counts, pal!

 

[KMDP]

Okay, fair enough... my apologies...

NBD

Isaac is so punished lol.

*Plays Sins of the Father*

"Garet, I'm already an Adept."

 

[Deleted member]

As much as I think there aren't many third-parties left with a big legacy status, Master Chief I still think would be one of them.

Halo did a hell of a lot for pushing modern FPS games, practically revolutionized them. I do think he has a very VERY slim chance, but his reveal would be absolutely mind blowing.

 

[LetterO]

If you wanna add a Detective character, use Gumshoos
His name is literally just "detective"

Spoiler

This is the exact same situation that happened with Pikachu Libre in Pokken where they went with a 2nd Pikachu instead of the actual luchador Pokemon

Spoiler

Again, his name LITERALLY has the word "Lucha" from "luchador" in it.

Only if Gumshoos says pal and has this as his song.

 

[Will]

As much as I think there aren't many third-parties left with a big legacy status, Master Chief I still think would be one of them.

Halo did a hell of a lot for pushing modern FPS games, practically revolutionized them. I do think he has a very VERY slim chance, but his reveal would be absolutely mind blowing.

>Master Chief with a Doomguy echo or vice versa

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I just hope my fellow Banjo supporters don’t take a bad turn if Steve happens.

Having checked the Banjo thread for interest before, let's just say they'd likely lose it...

The Steve and Banjo supporters always had a sort of minor rivalry ever since Microsoft bought Minecraft in 2014...

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac fans are cool, or at least the ones i have talked with.

In regards to Crash supporters or fans, i see that most are either open to the idea but with neutral feelings, or just with low expectations to get more surprised if he gets in.

I didn’t see him as part of the base roster in the past, and i always saw him more likely as DLC.
A bit likely on the actual Fighter Pass and more possible in a second one.

If he doesn’t get in, i can always go to fan games or mods.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Even though I don't care about the Mii's at all as characters, Mii Brawler was actually one of my favorite characters to actually play with in Smash 4.

I mean Jigglypuff was almost Meowth in 64.

We live in the darkest timeline...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Gumshoos can stay away from Smash because he looks too much like 45.

 

[Dee Dude]

To be honest, let’s have both Banjo and Steve since the “one 3rd Party per company” fan rule has been dead long then and because I’d prefer Banjo as a fighter but would love a Minecraft stage.

 

[Will]

To be honest, let’s have both Banjo and Steve since the “one 3rd Party per company” fan rule has been dead long then and because I’d prefer Banjo as a fighter but would love a Minecraft stage.

And leave out the Chief?
No, sir, this ain't it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm afraid of what would happen if Microsoft got two fighters and it was Steve and Master Chief.

It's the logical outcome, but some of ya'll would be missing your heads because they exploded from rage.

 

[staindgrey]

As much as I think there aren't many third-parties left with a big legacy status, Master Chief I still think would be one of them.

Halo did a hell of a lot for pushing modern FPS games, practically revolutionized them. I do think he has a very VERY slim chance, but his reveal would be absolutely mind blowing.

In terms of Western gaming icons (not necessarily "made by the West" but popular in the West, since I can't speak for the East), I think the only big ones left that aren't in Smash already are probably...

• Master Chief
• Lara Croft
• Resident Evil in general

And that's, like, it.

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, let’s have both Banjo and Steve since the “one 3rd Party per company” fan rule has been dead long then and because I’d prefer Banjo as a fighter but would love a Minecraft stage.

I agree with this.
If we get a second Square franchise for DLC, the only third party company without two playable franchises would be Namco.

Capcom has Megaman and Street Fighter, SEGA has Sonic and Bayonetta and Konami has Castlevania and Metal Gear.

I would find the idea of two Microsoft franchises getting in reasonable.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

In terms of Western gaming icons (not necessarily "made by the West" but popular in the West, since I can't speak for the East), I think the only big ones left that aren't in Smash already are probably...

• Master Chief
• Lara Croft
• Resident Evil in general

And that's, like, it.

And sadly the last two might have to deal with realistic guns, as well as any potential over the top gore and horror elements that RE might bring along with it.

All are super worthy of Smash Bros though.