Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[staindgrey]

5. Elma
It is extremely suspicious that Xenoblade X has almost no content in Ultimate, to the point where Xenoblade 2 has far more content. The only piece of known Xenoblade X content in Ultimate is a spirit of a Skell. That is it. No music, no Mii costumes, no Assist Trophy. If Elma's spirit is not seen in Ultimate, it will be extremely obvious that she is being saved to become DLC.

I think we-- as Elma fans in general-- need to keep away from ideas like "obvious" and "guaranteed". Elma and XCX have a lot going against them, and we have to recognize that.

XCX, while it outsold XC1, still didn't sell great, and before Smash Ultimate was even announced, it was superseded by XC2, which outsold it fairly heavily. XC2's release time made it awkward, however, to add a newcomer despite Nintendo banking pretty hard on its inevitable popularity, so we got a Rex costume. But-- and this is important-- XC2 is both more immediately relevant and more likely to sell more copies from Smash advertisement since it's on the Switch, then it has loads of DLC that could also be purchased by new fans. If Nintendo decided on the five Fighters Pass characters, there is almost zero reason whatsoever to include Elma over anyone from XC2-- unless they planned on porting XCX to the Switch. Which, if Tetsuya Takahashi is to be believed, isn't really in the cards.

While it's painful to consider, it's very possible that XCX was just skipped when adding content due to being sandwiched between Shulk's game and the Switch blockbuster that was a direct "2" sequel.

 

[Kholdstare]

We still got like 4 movies left.

Don't tempt them with that princess Leia ****

It's Disney. You know this is exactly what will happen.

 

[Will]

It's Disney. You know this is exactly what will happen.

Then why'd you say "not anymore" like I know not anymore but it's not over just yet.

 

[Wyoming]

If they really wanted nostalgia they'd have Xander scream
SUPER SMASH BROTHERS UUUUUUUUUULTIMAAAAAAAAAATE
or something

***** he better

 

[Kholdstare]

Then why'd you say "not anymore" like I know not anymore but it's not over just yet.

It was a joke that was in poor taste but positioned ripely with your post.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Actually, Steve will come with a bunch of different alts, including his Master Chief and Banjo-Kazooie skins. Please understand.

 

[Will]

Actually, Steve will come with a bunch of different alts, including his Master Chief and Banjo-Kazooie skins. Please understand.

NO PLEASE NOT THE CHIEF HE WASN'T A PART OF THIS DEAL

 

[Deleted member]

People are so picky man. Learn to enjoy the DLC.
I mean even if Verge leakes some stuff you never know. Maybe the whole Square Enix thing can lead us to Sora or Geno.

The problem is that this DLC is coming off the heels of Smash For's DLC, which undoubtedly had some high caliber guests. People will, and already are, comparing Smash Ultimate's DLC with For's.

Ultimate has to live up to Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta. (Corrin was eh)

And if you ask me, that's a pretty big order to live up to.

 

[Arcanir]

Dark Samus...
She was so unique in the Prime games
If she couldn't be anything other than an echo, then they shouldn't have bothered

While I definitely understand that you're disappointed that she wasn't more unique, there are a lot of fans happy that Dark Samus is in the game and are enjoying their time with her nonetheless. Saying that they shouldn't have bothered comes off as a little dismissive of why she was included and how others feel about her inclusion, and you can respect their happiness with the situation even if you don't agree with it personally.

 

[Kholdstare]

Actually, Steve will come with a bunch of different alts, including his Master Chief and Banjo-Kazooie skins. Please understand.

Fortnite Steve skin, get hyped epic Smash gamers.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Actually, Steve will come with a bunch of different alts, including his Master Chief and Banjo-Kazooie skins. Please understand.

That'd be quite an intriguing mockery to the Banjo fans... lol

 

[staindgrey]

I disagree with you on the Dark Pit thing, but I definitely agree that Let's Go is a great game.
My sibling just got a shiny randomly while I was working really hard to get one.
Let's Go is a great experience for all. The haters are wrong.
I have Let's Go Eevee downloaded on the Switch. I plan to get a Shiny Bellsprout and then a Shiny Mewtwo if it is not shiny locked.

The haters aren't necessarily wrong. This game just isn't made for them.

But I've found that I actually really like this setup. When I'm going down a route, I don't have to worry about random encounters and keeping my Pokemon healthy; I don't have to run back to the Pokecenter after only two trainer battles because the pokemon I'm trying to train up has taken too much damage. I've found that not having to go through the heavily repetitive motions for battling every random encounter in past Pokemon games is actually... really nice.

For the competitive Pokemon players and the nuzlockers, yeah, this game isn't what they want. But honestly, I wouldn't be disappointed if this is how their games are made going forward. I'd really like a Johto version, like, uh... Pokemon Let's Go Pichu and, uh... Let's Go Eevee Again.

Good luck with that Mewtwo.

 

[Chumpodile]

What makes PP's inclusion so great is how random and unexpected was. Sure it is a generic enemy, but it was a funny and random inclusion. I love it already.

It looks great! I think black with blue fire would be great, but it is as fine as it is.

Here you go! Black background with black lineart looks REAL bad, so its just all blue!

 

[Digital Hazard]

So, out of curiosity I decided to look at how many characters we have seen in CG cutscenes in both Ultimate and Smash 4, since they are animated in in the same style and presumably by the same people. Here is a list of every character and every CG trailer they've been in.

World of Light
Rosalina's trailer, Shulk's trailer, Duck Hunt's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Own trailer, Ken and Incineroar's trailer
World of Light, Ultimate's commercial (see notes)
Absent from CGs
Absent from CGs
King K. Rool's trailer, World of Light
Smash 4's reveal, Mega Man's trailer, Rosalina's trailer, Pac-Man's trailer, Duck Hunt's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, King K. Rool's trailer, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Own trailer, World of Light
World of Light
Smash 4's reveal, World of Light
Absent from CGs
Own trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, World of Light
Absent from CGs
Absent from CGs
Own trailer shared with Ken
Ultimate's reveal doubling as own, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Own trailer, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
King K. Rool's trailer, World of Light
Own trailer, Ken and Incineroar's trailer, World of Light
Smash 4's reveal, Mega Man's trailer, Wii Fit Trainer's trailer, Rosalina's trailer, Graninja's trailer, Bowser Jr.'s trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Smash 4's reveal, Mega Man's trailer, Wii Fit Trainer's trailer, Greninja's trailer, Shulk's trailer, Bowser Jr.'s trailer, Duck Hunt's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, Ultimate's reveal, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial (see notes)
Ken and Incineroar's trailer (see notes)
World of Light
Absent from CGs
Rosalina's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, Simon and Richter's trailer
Smash 4's reveal, Mega Man's trailer, Wii Fit Trainer's trailer, Rosalina's trailer, Greninja's trailer, Pac-Man's trailer, Bowser Jr.'s trailer, Duck Hunt's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, Ultimate's reveal, Ridley's trailer, Ultimate's commercial
Shulk's trailer, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from unified CG style (see notes)
Own trailer, Bowser Jr.'s trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, Ridley's trailer, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Japanese Miis commercial (see notes)
Pac-Man's trailer
Absent from CGs
Greninja's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, Ultimate's commercial (Pikmin only)
Own trailer (see notes)
World of Light (see notes)
Rosalina's trailer, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Absent from CGs
Smash 4's reveal, Greninja's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Smash 4's reveal, Duck Hunt's trailer, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
World of Light (see notes)
Greninja's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial (both Charizard only, as was separated in the fourth game), World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Own trailer, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Absent from unified CG style (see notes)
Own trailer, Bowser Jr's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, World of Light
Absent from CGs
Absent from unified CG style (see notes)
Absent from CGs
Own trailer shared with Incineroar
Smash 4's reveal, Greninja's trailer, Bowser Jr.'s trailer, Ridley's trailer, Duck Hunt's trailer, Japanese Miis commercial, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Absent from CGs
Own trailer, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Own trailer shared with Richter, World of Light
Own trailer shared with Simon
World of Light
World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Smash 4's reveal doubling as his reveal trailer, Ken and Incineroar's trailer, World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Absent from CGs
Own trailer, World of Light
Absent from CGs
Absent from CGs
Absent from CGs
World of Light, Ultimate's commercial
Ridley's trailer, Ultimate's commercial

Notes:
-Since Smash counts all the playable iterations of regular Link as one and the same, I am doing so as well
-All base newcomers in Sm4sh had animated trailers, however, some took in a different style. Little Mac's is a 2D trailer drawn with rough lines to emulate a comic book style. It also had Samus.
-Palutena's trailer was a full blown anime trailer animated by Studio SHAFT, who animated the short "Palutena's Revolting Dinner" to promote Kid Icarus: Uprising, with Dark Pit appearing at the end as a stinger rather than an outright reveal. It also had Link and obviously Pit.
-The trailer for the Miis featured Reggie and Iwata in a live action fight with special effects to then play as them.
-To be technical, we have seen Lucina, Robin and Chrom in CG for the reveal trailer for the former two in Sm4sh, Captain Falcon also appeared in this one. However, I am not counting them since they are done in the same cel-shaded style as the cutscenes from Fire Emblem: Awakening, instead of the unified style most Smash trailers go for.
-Most of Pac-Man's trailer is gameplay footage, but CG is used right at the end.
-All DLC characters in Sm4sh also had trailers, but all of them reuse gameplay footage, and in Corrin's case, plays a custcene from Fire Emblem: Fates a little different.
-Multiple characters appear in the reveal for Ultimate, but all of them with the Inklings exception appear shadowed and hard to discern, the camera only comes close to face Link and Mario.
-Not counted since they don’t appear as models, but the commercial for Ultimate has various characters appear as pngs from the mural, like K. Rool, Ice Climbers, Ness, Richter, Palutena, the Miis, etc.

Now I'll go post this in r/smashbros.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

The problem is that this DLC is coming off the heels of Smash For's DLC, which undoubtedly had some high caliber guests. People will, and already are, comparing Smash Ultimate's DLC with For's.

Ultimate has to live up to Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta. (Corrin was eh)

And if you ask me, that's a pretty big order to live up to.

I'd argue that Roy and Lucas were also eh, in the grand scheme of things.

 

[osby]

The problem is that this DLC is coming off the heels of Smash For's DLC, which undoubtedly had some high caliber guests. People will, and already are, comparing Smash Ultimate's DLC with For's.

Ultimate has to live up to Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta. (Corrin was eh)

And if you ask me, that's a pretty big order to live up to.

Ultimate already had all every veteran, so...

 

[T3Z3R1]

View attachment 178520

Here you go! Black background with black lineart looks REAL bad, so its just all blue!

Oooo! Great art you got there!

Can you do me?

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine if we got GTA content in Smash...

View attachment 178520

Here you go! Black background with black lineart looks REAL bad, so its just all blue!

Thanks man, I really appreciate that!

 

[Kuon]

Preying on nostalgia is 80% of Gamefreak's new motto.

Gen 1 is almost as bad as Sonic's Green Hill Zone... Actually, I'd say it's worse. I dunno, the nostalgia for Gen 1 has been milked dry for me. We can only handle so much of Gen 1. With the Kanto starters in Gen 6 to the Alolan forms and Red and Blue being battle-able in Sun and Moon, I'm pretty much tired of Gen 1, and will not be getting LGPE. Not to mention I don't like the Pkmn Go mechanics, nor how simple it appears to be. I'll wait till Gen 8

 

[staindgrey]

The problem is that this DLC is coming off the heels of Smash For's DLC, which undoubtedly had some high caliber guests. People will, and already are, comparing Smash Ultimate's DLC with For's.

Ultimate has to live up to Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta. (Corrin was eh)

And if you ask me, that's a pretty big order to live up to.

Except Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are just returning veterans, and Ultimate already beat that out by bringing back . So really, Ultimate's DLC will be compared to For's in terms of the five character Fighters Pass versus .

Also, how are people already comparing Ultimate's DLC to For's? We don't know what the hell it is yet.

 

[GoeGoe]

So Vergeben and Hitagi, take this with a grain of salt. Leak. DLC 5 charcaters, all music and stages OMG HUGE. Subscribe, like, patreon. So what do you think? let me know in the comments below... and don't forget to give it a thumbs up.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The problem is that this DLC is coming off the heels of Smash For's DLC, which undoubtedly had some high caliber guests. People will, and already are, comparing Smash Ultimate's DLC with For's.

Ultimate has to live up to Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta. (Corrin was eh)

And if you ask me, that's a pretty big order to live up to.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd definitely call characters like Steve a high caliber guest.

 

[Deleted member]

So Vergeben and Hitagi, take this with a grain of salt. Leak. DLC 5 charcaters, all music and stages OMG HUGE. Subscribe, like, patreon. So what do you think? let me know in the comments below... and don't forget to give it a thumbs up.

if we get 50 likes ill give away my moms credit card number, the expiration date, and the three numbers on the back

 

[ZephyrZ]

My prediction for Ultimate's DLC is that there will be no Fire Emblem character.

But I've found that I actually really like this setup. When I'm going down a route, I don't have to worry about random encounters and keeping my Pokemon healthy; I don't have to run back to the Pokecenter after only two trainer battles because the pokemon I'm trying to train up has taken too much damage. I've found that not having to go through the heavily repetitive motions for battling every random encounter in past Pokemon games is actually... really nice.

You see, the trick in previous games was to keep potions and repels on hand to save yourself the trouble and tedium of going back and forth. I won't deny that random encounters are still a really annoying way of doing things, especially if you're on the look out for rare pokemon.

That said, I'm still getting the game anyway. I disapprove of a lot of their decisions with that game but I've also been nostalgic as heck lately. It should be arriving for me in two days.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd definitely call characters like Steve a high caliber guest.

Oh he definitely is, but there will be a lot of salt if he gets in. Hating Minecraft is cool, ya know?

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

View attachment 178520

Here you go! Black background with black lineart looks REAL bad, so its just all blue!

Off topic but for future reference, do you take commissions? If so what are your prices, your art is really good!

 

[staindgrey]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd definitely call characters like Steve a high caliber guest.

Steve is objectively a high caliber guest. Minecraft is the second highest selling game of all time.

Doesn't mean I like/want him.

 

[Will]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd definitely call characters like Steve a high caliber guest.

Oh he definitely is, but there will be a lot of salt if he gets in. Hating Minecraft is cool, ya know?

Nah, hating Fortnite is cool. People have toned down the Minecraft salt because the 2000s kids have moved on and now the 2010 kids are festering the other game. They probably do play it but not to the extent of watching a guy with blue hair make funny scream noises.

also a lot of smash fans blindly follow their 90s nostalgia despite the fact that minecraft is in the same boat with nostalgia

 

[Deleted member]

My prediction for Ultimate's DLC is that there will be no Fire Emblem character.

As much as I don't want any new FE characters, considering Nintendo are the ones who decided the DLC I would be surprised if there weren't any.

 

[Deleted member]

It's more that we got so much so close together with Ultimate compared to Smash 4. Smash 4 was a year and a half of stuff with the gradual build-up of Gematsu and stuff like the Palutena image, only for Gematsu to be shot down not too long after it cemented itself as "legit" and the ESRB leak to pop up a month before release.


Ultimate was over a span of half a year; insiders start teasing Ridley right after the game's announced, Verg jumps on the Ridley wagon as well as no cuts and Simon about a month later, E3 happens and Ridley gets in but Echoes are also a thing, August direct comes up and supports Verg while also bringing loz18 into the mix for all of a month, September ends up as a bit of a downer killing loz18 and further supporting Verg who's begun calling Ken and Incineroar with an SE newcomer as DLC when the dreaded LE box gets posted, Grinch nonsense less than two weeks before the final direct bringing about several insiders dropping their own unsubtle hints about the future, final direct comes and Verg ends up mostly proven and now suddenly Hitagi's someone who might be worth listening to.

Ultimate's speculation/leak phase was far more compressed and personal (in several ways). We didn't have anonymously relayed newcomer lists posted on gaming blogs that ended up half true; there was no big leak shake-up; you got identifiable individuals interacting with the community and gradually putting down info that ended up correct. There wasn't a ton of current speculation; just "this guy is saying this stuff and if you think otherwise you're hopelessly wrong" and people who thought otherwise ending up hopelessly wrong.

Honestly, as someone who's okay with the roster (my complaints are elsewhere), the current environment just leaves little in the way of fun in terms of speculation. It's far less people with their own theories and ideas for characters going around; it's "Geno fans deny the inevitable while trying to prove Sora can't be in" with a side of Banjo fans ready to tear into Steve and others are ready to whine to high heavens when Nintendo reveals marketable characters for DLC over fan favorites.

As you can tell, I'm saying all this someone who's bought into the right stuff so far.

Smash Ultimate's "speculation" phase sucked and was downright toxic at points, and is something I'd rather see ended ASAP than dragged on for another year.

Honestly my problems lie with people making out fans of other characters to be idiotic. People still held out hope for Ridley, people still held out hope for King K. Rool, so why not other certain characters?

Yeah, let's all jump on the Katalina train, even though Granblue Fantasy has no history or connections with Nintendo that isn't on a business level, but shun all the people who want Geno. Ok.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Let's Go is just Nintendo preying on your nostalgia. Luckily I play Smash Bros. so I'm immune to this predatory tactic.

I was lucky that I immediately realized that pokemon let's go was just quick moneygrab because of how "nostalgia" it was and the fact that it have pokemon go mechanic turned me off. Heck, when I saw the article on why we can't have jerk rival which makes me realize that there will be friendly rival of which I HATE most of all rivals most due to Hau from pokemon SM. I mean how can you expect your rival to be friendly in this new game?

Sad part for them is that I didn't play pokemon red when I was young, I just played Pokemon ruby,

 

[Deleted member]

My prediction for Ultimate's DLC is that there will be no Fire Emblem character.
You see, the trick in previous games was to keep potions and repels on hand to save yourself the trouble and tedium of going back and forth. I won't deny that random encounters are still a really annoying way of doing things, especially if you're on the look out for rare pokemon.

That said, I'm still getting the game anyway. I disapprove of a lot of their decisions with that game but I've also been nostalgic as heck lately. It should be arriving for me in two days.

Oh he definitely is, but there will be a lot of salt if he gets in. Hating Minecraft is cool, ya know?

I mean... what FE character could there even be? If Rex, whose game came out in 2017, was too new there's no way in hell they could do that axe girl from the new FE considering her game didn't even come out yet. The only way I can see it is if the DLC really wasn't decided until recently AND Nintendo told Sakurai to leave a slot open for this character who didn't even come out yet which I HIGHLY doubt

 

[Blargg888]

The problem is that this DLC is coming off the heels of Smash For's DLC, which undoubtedly had some high caliber guests. People will, and already are, comparing Smash Ultimate's DLC with For's.

Ultimate has to live up to Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta. (Corrin was eh)

And if you ask me, that's a pretty big order to live up to.

I mean, you should subtract those first three, they're veterans, and honestly, in that regard, Ultimate has already lived up.
We got all our veterans back, you can't exactly ask for more.

We've got 6 DLC characters to surpass Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and Bayo.

P Plant and 5 others. Ultimate at the very least has a numerical advantage.

 

[PsySmasher]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd definitely call characters like Steve a high caliber guest.

The problem with Steve isn't his overall popularity or notoriety, it's more on whether or not people actually WANT the character in Smash.

And the reaction to that possibly happening has been... mixed... to say the least.

 

[staindgrey]

My prediction for Ultimate's DLC is that there will be no Fire Emblem character.
You see, the trick in previous games was to keep potions and repels on hand to save yourself the trouble and tedium of going back and forth. I won't deny that random encounters are still a really annoying way of doing things, especially if you're on the look out for rare pokemon.

That said, I'm still getting the game anyway. I disapprove of a lot of their decisions with that game but I've also been nostalgic as heck lately. It should be arriving for me in two days.

I do carry things, but I'm also a penny pincher in RPGs. And I guess my bigger point is that the primary way of earning XP-- wild pokemon encounters-- is no longer random and doesn't involve my pokemon getting poisoned by every goddamned Weedle I come across. Wild pokemon encounters aren't a stress at all anymore, and raising pokemon and catching pokemon are now more directly linked. I surprisingly really like it.

My only complaint is that the trainers are still too easy. I'm to the third gym and I've seen less than ten trainers with more than one pokemon. If this game had a "hard mode" and some Johto pokemon, I'd be set.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

I mean... what FE character could there even be? If Rex, whose game came out in 2017, was too new there's no way in hell they could do that axe girl from the new FE considering her game didn't even come out yet. The only way I can see it is if the DLC really wasn't decided until recently AND Nintendo told Sakurai to leave a slot open for this character who didn't even come out yet which I HIGHLY doubt

I feel only a Gen 8 mon has a shot from an upcoming game, because Pokemon is a rulebreaker

 

[osby]

As much as I don't want any new FE characters, considering Nintendo are the ones who decided the DLC I would be surprised if there weren't any.

Last time I checked Nintendo wasn't the one putting 6 FE character to the game. Like, what connection those two have? Yes, Fire Emblem is going to get a new game, but it's not the only franchise that will.

 

[Will]

As much as I don't want any new FE characters, considering Nintendo are the ones who decided the DLC I would be surprised if there weren't any.

Sakurai could always deny the request, y'know. Even he said there was beginning to be too much of the series, sans Chrom who should've been in smash 4 in the first place

 

[Grunky Peep]

What echo you hate the most?

I don't necessarily hate Dark Pit, but I would say he's my least favorite echo fighter. Had it not been for "EVERYONE IS HERE", Dark Pit probably would've been cut.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, you should subtract those first three, they're veterans, and honestly, in that regard, Ultimate has already lived up.
We got all our veterans back, you can't exactly ask for more.

We've got 6 DLC characters to surpass Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and Bayo.

P Plant and 5 others. Ultimate at the very least has a numerical advantage.

That's a pretty high claim to say that the DLC will surpass those four. Those five other characters better be on the same level of caliber as Ryu and Cloud, then.

 

[Grunky Peep]

That'd be quite an intriguing mockery to the Banjo fans... lol

As someone who wants Master Chief, an incredibly unlikely character, I'd take this and be happy. Kind of like when Ridley fans used the purple Charizard alt in 4.