Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

eaten by is pointless?

 

[MSmariosonic]

People seem confused to Isaac returning as an assist after missing ssb4

If Isaac hadn't received that many votes in the ballot he wouldn't have returned as an assist trophy

I thought this was pretty obvious

 

[TreeBranch]

I can only guess the beastball was added super late into developement. It's not even in any of the demos, while the healing sprout is

 

[Luigi The President]

The thing is though, is no matter what timing it was, people would have still been upset. Sakurai choosing not to show something only gets hopes up if you let it. He was not obligated to show something earlier because of a fake leak or people theorizing.

Honestly, think about how the devs must feel about some of these ATs: They make something that takes a lot of time and effort, and all they're met with is anger and sadness. That kinda sucks.

As I've said like 5 times now I'm trying to only criticize the timing of the Isaac AT, nothing else
He wasn't /obligated/ but it would've been a smarter move to show Isaac literally any earlier time. I don't really get why we gotta debate this.

 

[lightdrago]

People seem confused to Isaac returning as an assist after missing ssb4

If Isaac hadn't received that many votes in the ballot he wouldn't have returned as an assist trophy

I thought this was pretty obvious

TBH, he probably wasn't in Smash 4 as an AT because the 3DS couldn't handle his giant, yellow, pushy hands.

 

[Raxxel]

What I don't get is how that person had the connections or the artistic capability to pull off that stunt. Absolutely ridiculous, but you know what? I'm not even shocked he spent an ungodly amount of time doing it or working with someone to do it.

That's where money comes in to play. MTP somehow has money, he bought out all of the Rosalina amiibos to spite her fanbase once. He could have commissioned someone to whip up some renders and keep silent about it.

 

[Deleted member]

People seem confused to Isaac returning as an assist after missing ssb4

If Isaac hadn't received that many votes in the ballot he wouldn't have returned as an assist trophy

I thought this was pretty obvious

Still should’ve updated the design of his AT to dad Isaac.

 

[DevaAshera]

Not to go "well imagine being [x]" but do imagine being a Paper Mario fan lol.

I still count Paper Mario as Mario, so representation is there..just not in that artstyle..plus there is a Paper Mario stage.
Not every series will have the representation we'd like for it to have, just the way the world works honestly..like every series included has something I'd like to see, like a Hilda colour for Zelda, Dixie Kong, Gardevoir playable, Medusa, Kumatora, Paper Mario w/ Vivian, Tharja in Robin's FS, Chun-Li, Zero as Playable, Shadow as playable, Krystal as playable, Ashley as playable, Isaac as playable, etc.
Still, representation of any kind is nice to have, I feel.

 

[Deleted member]

The Detective Pikachu trailer reminded me of that edgy fan-made movie about the franchise (Apokelypse was the name, i think).

That’s why i didn’t like it.

 

[Deleted member]

TBH, he probably wasn't in Smash 4 as an AT because the 3DS couldn't handle his giant, yellow, pushy hands.

Isaac’s hands are literally just a projectile. The 3DS is not the reason for his AT being removed.

 

[MSmariosonic]

TBH, he probably wasn't in Smash 4 as an AT because the 3DS couldn't handle his giant, yellow, pushy hands.

or he was simply cut like the other cut assist trophies from brawl

Which I think is more plausible

 

[Paperchampion23]

I can only guess the beastball was added super late into developement. It's not even in any of the demos, while the healing sprout is

If it's not in the current demos, it's probably not in the game lol

 

[New_Dumal]

There is absolutely no logical reason a character like Steve would come with anything but a Minecraft stage and music. It's not deconfirmed but incredibly unlikely.

What I'm saying is that they can add Minecraft songs or stages without Steve.
Let's say they add Bandana Dee or other Nintendo characteer. They don't see why to include another Kirby/Dk/Zelda stage in the game. They advertise the package with "Bandana Dee + Minecraft Songs and stages".

The same can happen on the other way around with franchises they don't get much freedom to work with.
Let's say Kingdom Hearts remix aren't possible, but they want to add Square Enix music at least. New Final Fantasy songs or Space Invaders or Tomb Raider or Dragon Quest).

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I still don't understand what this thing is. Didn't it just show up on the site after the last direct? Is there even any gameplay of it?

This is pretty much just the Soccer Ball from previous games no?

There is video of it, in a match on the WarioWare stage. It's not like the Soccer Ball, you pick it up and throw it, and it literally disappears and teleports in front of another player and shoots toward them, it does a lot of knockback. I'm not sure what it's from, maybe it's an original item but it seems oddly specific, maybe it's from Super Sluggers or Rusty's Real Deal or something.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

So I take it that the Beastball will be tonight's blog post.

 

[Luigi The President]

I still count Paper Mario as Mario, so representation is there..just not in that artstyle..plus there is a Paper Mario stage.
Not every series will have the representation we'd like for it to have, just the way the world works honestly..like every series included has something I'd like to see, like a Hilda colour for Zelda, Dixie Kong, Gardevoir playable, Medusa, Kumatora, Paper Mario w/ Vivian, Tharja in Robin's FS, Chun-Li, Zero as Playable, Shadow as playable, etc.

Which you really, really shouldn't, because Paper Mario is an entirely different series and as confirmed by Paper Jam an entirely different universe no matter how you look at it. (not trying to be hostile I just wanted to rebuff that point)

Your last paragraph is right, but I was talking about how good Yoshi gets it specifically.

 

[ChronoBound]

K. Rool /WAS/ the main antagonist. Hadn't appeared since 2008.
I'm trying to get at the proximity within the SMASH fandom. Which Isaac is pretty close to their level.

You were not around for pre-Melee, pre-Brawl, or pre-Smash 4. Isaac is definitely number 1 right now among the Western fanbase, however, even at his peak he is far away from the heights that the likes of Wario, Diddy Kong, Sonic, Mega Man, Ridley, and K. Rool had.

 

[TreeBranch]

There is video of it, in a match on the WarioWare stage. It's not like the Soccer Ball, you pick it up and throw it, and it literally disappears and teleports in front of another player and shoots toward them, it does a lot of knockback. I'm not sure what it's from, maybe it's an original item but it seems oddly specific, maybe it's from Super Sluggers or Rusty's Real Deal or something.

Oh wow, I've never seen it. Got the link?

 

[Deleted member]

As I've said like 5 times now I'm trying to only criticize the timing of the Isaac AT, nothing else
He wasn't /obligated/ but it would've been a smarter move to show Isaac literally any earlier time. I don't really get why we gotta debate this.

Why specifically Isaac, though? Shadow was a huge request as well, as were Rex and Pyra and a lot of the other deconfirmed characters.

All I'm coming from is not understanding what the difference in time would have been. People would have still been disappointed either way.

 

[Iridium]

Luigi The President What are we talking about now? I missed a lot.

 

[lightdrago]

What I'm saying is that they can add Minecraft songs or stages without Steve.
Let's say they add Bandana Dee or other Nintendo characteer. They don't see why to include another Kirby/Dk/Zelda stage in the game. They advertise the package with "Bandana Dee + Minecraft Songs and stages".

That'd be a...questionable decision.

Why put a completely unrelated series content with another character? If I bought a Kirby character, I expect a Kirby song and stage.

 

[Luigi The President]

What I'm saying is that they can add Minecraft songs or stages without Steve.
Let's say they add Bandana Dee or other Nintendo characteer. They don't see why to include another Kirby/Dk/Zelda stage in the game. They advertise the package with "Bandana Dee + Minecraft Songs and stages".

...just...no???
If they're adding a new Kirby character then they have no issue adding even more Kirby rep...by extension no issue adding another Kirby stage or music. I don't see why it'd be anything different. Same for any other Nintendo character.

You were not around for pre-Melee, pre-Brawl, or pre-Smash 4. Isaac is definitely number 1 right now among the Western fanbase, however, even at his peak he is far away from the heights that the likes of Wario, Diddy Kong, Sonic, Mega Man, Ridley, and K. Rool had.

Check my join date. I know what I was around for. I won't dispute pre-Melee or pre-Brawl, but ever since pre-4 and post-4 Isaac's been a pretty big deal. Which is why I said, "pretty close".

 

[dezeray112]

A lot themes certainly does go with the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate commercials:

Anyways, I've already tried playing around a number of different Power Rangers themes to fit within to see if it goes with the commercial.

 

[Paperchampion23]

or he was simply cut like the other cut assist trophies from brawl

Which I think is more plausible

I'm beyond even trying to understand when things get cut when Saki, Ray (01), Excitebikers, Advance wars, and several others were cut after being perfectly good and interesting assist trophies.

Seriously, it confuses me

 

[Luigi The President]

Luigi The President What are we talking about now? I missed a lot.

Hi Iri.

-The DQ music tracks and how they may factor into DQ rep
-The timing of the Isaac AT reveal and our feelings on it
-A weird new item called the "Beastball" which is a flaming baseball
-Who may have leaked the Grinch Leak

 

[T3Z3R1]

That's where money comes in to play. MTP somehow has money, he bought out all of the Rosalina amiibos to spite her fanbase once. He could have commissioned someone to whip up some renders and keep silent about it.

I don't know how he managed to get some money after he brought all of the rosalina amiibos, but I think that he did find some artist's design whose is too similar to banner's art, he paid him/her some good money AND throw extra money for being silent about whole thing, this is why we didn't have some artist claiming responsible for the banner leak. I suspect that he/she will spill the bean soon eventually.

 

[Luigi The President]

Why specifically Isaac, though? Shadow was a huge request as well, as were Rex and Pyra and a lot of the other deconfirmed characters.

All I'm coming from is not understanding what the difference in time would have been. People would have still been disappointed either way.

I also feel Shadow's timing was poor. Rex and Pyra were not AT's previously so I don't have much beef with that.
IMO this really comes down to two entirely different perspectives about something that doesn't really matter for Ultimate. I just want you to know, I totally get your perspective-I just disagree.

 

[Wyoming]

That'd be a...questionable decision.

Why put a completely unrelated series content with another character? If I bought a Kirby character, I expect a Kirby song and stage.

Not to mention the Kirby fandom will screech and will increase their assertion that Sakurai hates modern Kirby if that happened.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Oh wow, I've never seen it. Got the link?

Found it

 

[New_Dumal]

That'd be a...questionable decision.

Why put a completely unrelated series content with another character? If I bought a Kirby character, I expect a Kirby song and stage.

Wouldn't you prefer musics from series not yet represented in the game ? Most try-hard fans would even buy the package for the music alone, even if they don't care about the character. At the same time, who wants the character will buy regardless of songs and stage. Fighter + fighter stage + figther musics is a pattern that you're holding to much confidence without any previous history (for this game) just because : "I like it that way".

 

[Starbound]

I don't think music would stop anyone from DQ showing up. If we get midis, at least we get the character.

Plus it would be really ironic for the Japanese nationalist to not get his special remixed music in the Japanese version since all the languages are one build.

 

[ChronoBound]

Check my join date. I know what I was around for. I won't dispute pre-Melee or pre-Brawl, but ever since pre-4 and post-4 Isaac's been a pretty big deal. Which is why I said, "pretty close".

No he's not. Isaac pretty much is just filling vacuum left after the fact that nearly all the big legacy characters (aside from Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong) are already in), and all that is left aside from him among Nintendo character are characters from recent titles.

Even during pre-Brawl (when his games were far fresher in people's minds) he was still on the lower end of the Top 10 (where he stayed for pre-Smash 4). Pretty much his elevation is the result of other characters above him getting in, and other characters collapsing.

 

[Deleted member]

I also feel Shadow's timing was poor. Rex and Pyra were not AT's previously so I don't have much beef with that.
IMO this really comes down to two entirely different perspectives about something that doesn't really matter for Ultimate. I just want you to know, I totally get your perspective-I just disagree.

Hmm, I think I see where you're coming from now. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Not much point in going back and forth if neither of us will change our minds. Especially when there isn't any wrong or right here.

 

[Luigi The President]

Wouldn't you prefer musics from series not yet represented in the game ? Most try-hard fans would even buy the package for the music alone, even if they don't care for the character. At the same time, who wants the character will buy regardless of songs and stage. Fighter + fighter stage + figther musics is a pattern that you're holding to much confidence without any previous history (for this game) just because : "I like it that way".

No..if I'm purchasing a Kirby character pack, I'd prefer Kirby music.
It's not even "I like it that way" it's just...simple logic.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I still count Paper Mario as Mario, so representation is there..just not in that artstyle..plus there is a Paper Mario stage.
Not every series will have the representation we'd like for it to have, just the way the world works honestly..like every series included has something I'd like to see, like a Hilda colour for Zelda, Dixie Kong, Gardevoir playable, Medusa, Kumatora, Paper Mario w/ Vivian, Tharja in Robin's FS, Chun-Li, Zero as Playable, Shadow as playable, Krystal as playable, Ashley as playable, Isaac as playable, etc.
Still, representation of any kind is nice to have, I feel.

Dr. Mario is just Mario in a lab coat, yet he's been decloned from Mario over the years. Paper Mario is not just Mario. According to Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, he is his own character in a separate universe from the original Mario's. We have three Links and three Samuses in the roster. I think having three Marios would be fine. Do I think he's likely for DLC? No. But saying that Paper Mario is just another Mario is kind of being disingenuous.

 

[Luigi The President]

No he's not. Isaac pretty much is just filling vacuum left after the fact that nearly all the big legacy characters (aside from Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong) are already in), and all that is left aside from him among Nintendo character are characters from recent titles.

Even during pre-Brawl (when his games were far fresher in people's minds) he was still on the lower end of the Top 10 (where he stayed for pre-Smash 4). Pretty much his elevation is the result of other characters above him getting in, and other characters collapsing.

I'm going to say he's pretty close because I feel he is, and you're going to disagree, and I understand that. Neither of us will change each others minds, so I'm not gonna debate on this specific topic.

My main issue was you saying I wasn't here for pre-Smash 4 when I was and actively participated in that scene.

 

[Deleted member]

No he's not. Isaac pretty much is just filling vacuum left after the fact that nearly all the big legacy characters (aside from Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong) are already in), and all that is left aside from him among Nintendo character are characters from recent titles.

Even during pre-Brawl (when his games were far fresher in people's minds) he was still on the lower end of the Top 10 (where he stayed for pre-Smash 4). Pretty much his elevation is the result of other characters above him getting in, and other characters collapsing.

Where would you say Geno has been throughout Smash? All I can remember is that he was really big in brawl but his support died off during smash 4 but came back.

 

[lightdrago]

Wouldn't you prefer musics from series not yet represented in the game ? Most try-hard fans would even buy the package for the music alone, even if they don't care about the character. At the same time, who wants the character will buy regardless of songs and stage. Fighter + fighter stage + figther musics is a pattern that you're holding to much confidence without any previous history (for this game) just because : "I like it that way".

I'd prefer if the content in the specific character pass matched up with the character. I don't have any problems with X franchise's content coming with Y character, but if they are going to add Minecraft songs and a stage, a huge third-party addition, I want Steve to follow as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Dr. Mario is just Mario in a lab coat, yet he's been decloned from Mario over the years. Paper Mario is not just Mario. According to Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, he is his own character in a separate universe from the original Mario's. We have three Links and three Samuses in the roster. I think having three Marios would be fine. Do I think he's likely for DLC? No. But saying that Paper Mario is just another Mario is kind of being disingenuous.

I think the same.
He also has potential for a more unique moveset, with the hammer and the battle items.

 

[New_Dumal]

Everything about the package said until this moment is: Couple songs, a new stage and a new character.

It was never stated that each package represents a certain franchise. You like the idea and is trying to say is logical, when is a open choice for them to make it.