Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

Now that I think about it, it's actually impossible to come up with a character no one would want because there's people out there who'd find ironic enjoyment in all the awful picks.

Bubsy the Bobcat? Shrek? Atari ET? There will be memelords out there who enjoy their inclusion. I'd main the heck out of Bubsy. Not really though.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

It's by Sony animation the people who made the Smurfs.

It's not anymore... in 2017, the film moved to the slightly more comforting hands of Paramount
Just ignore the fact that they are the ones who make a bajillian Transformers movies

 

[osby]

It's by Sony animation the people who made the Smurfs. Of course they're going to have some random human alongside Sonic.

You mean Tom the cop? Yes, he'll be Sonic's companion and he has a wife. Don't see how did you reached "Sonic has a girlfriend!" from that.

If the writing is good (which I'm doubtful), I don't have a problem with Sonic's main interaction being with a human.

 

[Zinith]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

Gee, I wonder who'd I pick...

 

[osby]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

Easy peasy, Bandana Dee.

 

[Gyrom8]

Sylux would be cool and all but if he's DLC I can imagine him causing people to complain about 'Metroid over-representation' (what a time we live in, eh). We'd be getting a base game newcomer (Ridley) an echo (Dark Samus) and a newcomer (Sylux). That's one short of Smash 4's FE bonanza, which also had a veteran DLC character. I wouldn't mind really, but I could see it generating some resentment from some other fanbases.

Also, is there much consensus about yet? From what I've heard he hasn't been changed much and is getting overshadowed by Young Link and the revamped regular Link.

 

[KMDP]

I did find an odd increase in furries after 2006

it all makes sense now

Well, correlation =/= causation, but that does paint a picture.

...

Sonic the Hedgehog released in 1990/1991 (can't be bothered to fact check)... and kids who were born around the time of Sonic's genesis (pff...) would be turning 15/16 when Sonic '06 came out. Food for thought.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Square Enix being such a hardass is really annoying, because it gets really tiresome seeing all these cool adverts and what not and Cloud's just...absent despite being one of the bigger third party catches.

Heck, he's still speaking Japanese only, and missing out on some great potential for costumes to boot. Square's stingy behavior, man.

Even if, by some miracle, we do get another Square rep like say, Sora, I won't even be surprised if they're minimalistic yet again and don't even have the guy talk at all in the English version, if at all.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

Sorry bandanna boy, but I'm going for Edelgard...

 

[Jetsurge]

If the writing is good (which I'm doubtful), I don't have a problem with Sonic's main interaction being with a human.

It's literally the same plot as Smurfs. Eggman will escape into the human world then Sonic will follow him to the real world and befriend a human guy who has a wife.

 

[Cosmic77]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

Bandana Dee with Paper Mario as a close second. Hard pass on Edelgard.

 

[Zinith]

Well, correlation =/= causation, but that does paint a picture.

...

Sonic the Hedgehog released in 1990/1991 (can't be bothered to fact check)... and kids who were born around the time of Sonic's genesis (pff...) would be turning 15/16 when Sonic '06 came out. Food for thought.

Ah yes, that's totally how I became a furry. Absolutely...

 

[osby]

It's literally the same plot as Smurfs. Eggman will escape into the human world then Sonic will follow him to the real world and befriend a human guy who has a wife.

Cool, this doesn't say anything about the actual writing, though.

Sylux would be cool and all but if he's DLC I can imagine him causing people to complain about 'Metroid over-representation' (what a time we live in, eh). We'd be getting a base game newcomer (Ridley) an echo (Dark Samus) and a newcomer (Sylux). That's one short of Smash 4's FE bonanza, which also had a veteran DLC character. I wouldn't mind really, but I could see it generating some resentment from some other fanbases.

I won't use "Sakurai bias" unironically but considering how much **** Metroid fans gave to FE last time, I'll laugh if they get a taste of their own medicine.

EDIT: Also, Chrom got his chance and K.Rool has a counter. Karma is on FE's side.

 

[KMDP]

It's literally the same plot as Smurfs. Eggman will escape into the human world then Sonic will follow him to the real world and befriend a human guy who has a wife.

Mr. Jetsurge! Are you encouraging Sonic the Hedgehog to commit adultery!?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well, correlation =/= causation, but that does paint a picture.

...

Sonic the Hedgehog released in 1990/1991 (can't be bothered to fact check)... and kids who were born around the time of Sonic's genesis (pff...) would be turning 15/16 when Sonic '06 came out. Food for thought.

I always put the blame on Star Fox and... Krystal...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Heck, he's still speaking Japanese only, and missing out on some great potential for costumes to boot. Square's stingy behavior, man.

Even if, by some miracle, we do get another Square rep like say, Sora, I won't even be surprised if they're minimalistic yet again and don't even have the guy talk at all in the English version, if at all.

If they wanted to cheap out, they'd just bring in the Heroes or Slime, those folks never say anything.

Or, even better yet, SE wouldn't show up at all, but Crystal Dynamics would be willing and happy to have Lara Croft in there.

 

[MainJPW]

How about Ryu then?

What about Ryu?

Attempted murder of a fellow iconic barefooted martial artist would make for an interesting Smash trailer.

Or... for extra villainy... Isabelle or Pichu (or both)

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/975/464/97d.gif

Sonic is a hedgehog but in his universe's context, he's more like an alien, rather than an animal. He has same cognitive abilities as humans. If there was any problem with the scene, it was either art style clash, Sonic being unconscious or forced romance. Not bestiality.

This. I probably wouldn’t have cared about them kissing (not even gonna bring up the fact that Sonic was “dead”) if Elise didn’t:

1. Look like an extraterrestrial.
2. If she were designed by Uekawa and looked less like a “realistic” human.

06’s art style is all kinds of ****ed up.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys really expect another Metroid newcomer after it being the only franchise to get two in the basegame?

Regarding the speech thing, maybe she does vocalise, but has the microphone in her helmet turned off?

(Watsonian Explanation: either for intimidation purposes or because she just forgot to turn it on; Doylist Explanation: It's a hold-over from when they still wanted to keep Samus' sex a secret, and they just didn't bother to give her a voice when it became well known)

I imagine the suit is air-tight (for space travel), and there's no way sound's going to come out of an air-tight suit.

Samus's gender was only a secret in Metroid I, and there was no voice-acting back then in games at all.
It's just odd that everyone has gotten voice-lines while she remains silent. Even characters that were originally silent until Smash such as Ness.

The sole reason Zero Suit exists is because the franchise was pretty active before Brawl, and Sakurai couldn't find any reasonable characters to add aside from Samus herself. In order to give Metroid a second character, he had to turn Samus into a transformation character like Zelda.

Her inclusion was very circumstantial, and if Sakurai had opted for Ridley, she may have never made it in Smash. I'm happy she did though. I feel like her addition to the roster has helped people appreciate the real Samus instead of looking only at the suit and saying, "Wait, that's a girl?" Yes, the sexualization can be annoying sometimes, but I don't think it's nearly as excessive as Smash 4 anymore. And even then, Bayontta made ZSS look modest by comparison.

I don't get the "I can't relate to Samus because she's faceless*". You don't need to see Samus's face to see her as a human being and I'd rather have my cool masked characters to remain masked. I generally tend to dislike a character when they "switch" to their unmasked version. Small examples would be the Black Knight or really any Darth Vader Clone tbh. A good example that's not a Darth Vader Clone is Metal Face who just loses everything that made him so great by actually just being Mumkhar in a mecha.

 

[osby]

You guys really expect another Metroid newcomer after it being the only franchise to get two in the basegame?

Samus's gender was only a secret in Metroid I, and there was no voice-acting back then in games at all.
It's just odd that everyone has gotten voice-lines while she remains silent. Even characters that were originally silent until Smash such as Ness.

I don't get the "I can't relate to Samus because she's faceless*". You don't need to see Samus's face to see her as a human being and I'd rather have my cool masked characters to remain masked. I generally tend to dislike a character when they "switch" to their unmasked version. Small examples would be the Black Knight or really any Darth Vader Clone tbh. A good example that's not a Darth Vader Clone is Metal Face who just loses everything that made him so great by actually just being Mumkhar in a mecha.

A significant portion of human brain is dedicated to analyze human faces, it's not that weird.

 

[KMDP]

I always put the blame on Star Fox and... Krystal...

We have a few patient zeroes here.

Rouge the Bat, Princess Sally and Bunnie Rabbot
Krystal
Gadget Hackwrench
Renamon

And more I'm probably forgetting about.

Samus's gender was only a secret in Metroid I, and there was no voice-acting back then in games at all.
It's just odd that everyone has gotten voice-lines while she remains silent. Even characters that were originally silent until Smash such as Ness.

I meant more that Smash 64 was paying lip-service to the "Samus is a girl!?" thing by not making her sex immediately obvious.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

none because id rather have the MC of Three houses,Byleth

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't get the "I can't relate to Samus because she's faceless*". You don't need to see Samus's face to see her as a human being and I'd rather have my cool masked characters to remain masked. I generally tend to dislike a character when they "switch" to their unmasked version. Small examples would be the Black Knight or really any Darth Vader Clone tbh. A good example that's not a Darth Vader Clone is Metal Face who just loses everything that made him so great by actually just being Mumkhar in a mecha.

The thing is that Sakurai goes for characters that are expressive, presumably meaning that they are maskless to a certain degree.

But then again, it's just as likely we don't actually know what he actually means by being "expressive" and he'll toss in someone like Master Chief anyway.

Krystal...

Please don't, the Krystal thread is already down in the dumps as it is.

We have a few patient zeroes here.

Rouge the Bat, Princess Sally and Bunnie Rabbot
Krystal
Gadget Hackwrench
Renamon

And more I'm probably forgetting about.

I meant more that Smash 64 was paying lip-service to the "Samus is a girl!?" thing by not making her sex immediately obvious.

That one showgirl in The Great Mouse Detective.

 

[Zinith]

We have a few patient zeroes here.

Rouge the Bat, Princess Sally and Bunnie Rabbot
Krystal
Gadget Hackwrench
Renamon

And more I'm probably forgetting about.

In more recent times...

 

[Deleted member]

A significant portion of human brain is dedicated to analyze human faces, it's not that weird.

I like cool masks and helmets shut up

We have a few patient zeroes here.

Rouge the Bat, Princess Sally and Bunnie Rabbot
Krystal
Gadget Hackwrench
Renamon

And more I'm probably forgetting about.

I meant more that Smash 64 was paying lip-service to the "Samus is a girl!?" thing by not making her sex immediately obvious.

Except Smash 64 didn't do that? They literally use female pronouns in her profile.

 

[osby]

Except Smash 64 didn't do that? They literally use female pronouns in her profile.

Japanese version likely didn't mentioned gender at all.

 

[ZephyrZ]

So I finally got around to watching some more of the footage that's out and man I gotta say I love that new Final Destination theme. I was expecting it to be something really intense, but it ended up being surprisingly light and cheerful like the E3 theme while still managing to sound awesome. Ultimate's theme is really getting close to surpassing Brawl's theme for me, but even if it doesn't it still has enough of an identity to stand on its own without having to be compared.

Spoiler: spoiling the video for mobile users

Now to see if I can find a full match that takes place on FD.

 

[KMDP]

Except Smash 64 didn't do that? They literally use female pronouns in her profile.

Except all the pronouns used in the Japanese version would be gender neutral.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Even with Ridley and Dark Samus in, both which I've always said should have very clear priority as far as Metroid newcomers go, I'm still not really feeling Sylux in Smash. Metroid is a series with a somewhat stable cast and is perfectly represented in Smash as is, Samus (x2) and Ridley are the main reoccuring characters while Dark Samus is the main villain of its incredibly popular subseries, in comparison Sylux still has a lot to prove, and I feel like it's best to wait until we've seen if he'll leave a noteworthy footprint on the series before talking about him getting into Smash.

I can better understand these sort of promotional inclusions when it comes to Pokémon, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade as their main cast changes from game to game, but with Metroid it's not really the same, Samus and (probably) Ridley will already promote Prime 4 just fine.

 

[Deleted member]

Japanese version likely didn't mentioned gender at all.

Except all the pronouns used in the Japanese version would be gender neutral.

That's on Japanese being a language that's more ambiguous than the definition of art rather than a conscious decision from the development team.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Even with Ridley and Dark Samus in, both which I've always said should have very clear priority as far as Metroid newcomers go, I'm still not really feeling Sylux in Smash. Metroid is a series with a somewhat stable cast and is perfectly represented in Smash as is, Samus (x2) and Ridley are the main reoccuring characters while Dark Samus is the main villain of its incredibly popular subseries, in comparison Sylux still has a lot to prove, and I feel like it's best to wait until we've seen if he'll leave a noteworthy footprint on the series before talking about him getting into Smash.

I can better understand these sort of promotional inclusions when it comes to Pokémon, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade, as their main cast changes from game to game, but with Metroid it's not really the same, Samus and (probably) Ridley will already promote Prime 4 just fine.

That seems fair. If anything, as far as promotional characters go, King Boo would be likelier, since Luigi's Mansion 3's release window is less nebulous. Guy's a universal constant in that series.

 

[Gyrom8]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

Paper Mario for sure. Waluigi would be second, then Poochy or Bandana Dee. Pls no Edelgard.

 

[Zinith]

Even with Ridley and Dark Samus in, both which I've always said should have very clear priority as far as Metroid newcomers go, I'm still not really feeling Sylux in Smash. Metroid is a series with a somewhat stable cast and is perfectly represented in Smash as is, Samus (x2) and Ridley are the main reoccuring characters while Dark Samus is the main villain of its incredibly popular subseries, in comparison Sylux still has a lot to prove, and I feel like it's best to wait until we've seen if he'll leave a noteworthy footprint on the series before talking about him getting into Smash.

I can better understand these sort of promotional inclusions when it comes to Pokémon, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade as their main cast changes from game to game, but with Metroid it's not really the same, Samus and (probably) Ridley will already promote Prime 4 just fine.

*Obligatory Zinith reminder that Yoshi's Crafted World could work for a promotional rep*

 

[KMDP]

That's on Japanese being a language that's more ambiguous than the definition of art rather than a conscious decision from the development team.

But...

That doesn't matter.

Like at all.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Japanese version likely didn't mentioned gender at all.

Japan normaly doesnt tell you the sex of characters if they are all covered up it seems lol

 

[Deleted member]

But...

That doesn't matter.

Like at all.

I guess they wanted to keep Mario's gender a secret too, what's your point?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Japan likes to go "This is a person. This person is a good person. Hero"

Its only us stupid westerners that go into a tizzy about it when we see it going "WHAT SEX ARE THEY??" and revolve a character around what sex they are

We are so stupid

 

[Opossum]

Choose one:
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Poochy
-Edelgard
-Waluigi

From most to least wanted...

Waluigi>Edelgard>Banana Waffle Tea>Poochy>Paper Mario

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

From most to least wanted...

Waluigi>Edelgard>Banana Waffle Tea>Poochy>Paper Mario

Imma like this post just for Banana Waffle Tea

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Now we're talking about gender pronouns, I wish it was Tuesday already so that we could fuss over the TGA nominees.

 

[osby]

Japan normaly doesnt tell you the sex of characters if they are all covered up it seems lol

As far as I know, languages aren't so interested in sex as much as gender. A lot of Western languages make a big deal about using different pronouns for men and women but don't care about babies and animals that much.

Japan likes to go "This is a person. This person is a good person. Hero"

Its only us stupid westerners that go into a tizzy about it when we see it going "WHAT SEX ARE THEY??" and revolve a character around what sex they are

We are so stupid

I can't tell if this is supposed to be ironic...