Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RawstyleEevee]

I literally will not give this person the time of day until they've proven at least one of their Smash claims right. I'll believe Katalina when I see it.

It depends for me what Vergeben will say regarding this, its only matter of time Gamefaqs will "beetlejuice" summon him in a topic xD

 

[osby]

Look up the name of the earliest Poochy stage you can find in Yoshi's Island

Oh.

I literally will not give this person the time of day until they've proven at least one of their Smash claims right. I'll believe Katalina when I see it.

I can get why people are restless about DLC. We've been in an info drought for about *checks* like a week.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Many of the collectathon elements of 2D platformers originated from Yoshi's Island. Before that, the Mario games were primarily about getting from one end of the stage to another, and still to this day when Mario goes 2D (and some 3D games even like 3D Land and World) that's still the case with the occasional Star Coins here and there. Yoshi's games encourage you to take your time to finish and to do other things while you're getting from one end of the stage to the other. Mario's 2D stages tend to be showcases for an obstacle gimmick that take 3-5 minutes to complete, whereas Yoshi's games are set pieces that will take you anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes depending on how you want to spend your time. Other franchises used that template, but in the context of the Mario universe, that's all Yoshi.

To be frank, Donkey Kong Country also did that before Yoshi's Island with the Bonus Areas and all that. And they perfected it with DKC2. But yes, fair point. I also prefer Yoshi's Island over Mario.

 

[vaanrose]

Though isn't same thing can be applied to Zelda?

Even though in more recent years, each mainline game seems to go out of its way to give "Zelda" a unique personality separate from the other incarnations, she's still largely the same character in every context. And while it isn't true for every appearance, often there's an in-universe explanation for the different Zeldas and Links suggesting they're either descendants with a blessed bloodline or even literal reincarnations, so there's usually at least a tangible connection between them all.

Impa, however, doesn't have that, and she differs from game to game far more noticeably, varying wildly in design, personality and prominence within the story. This is more like Cid, who is always connected to airships and machinery, but otherwise is always a clearly different character.

And as an aside, it's always been interesting to me that Impaz, from Twilight Princess, isn't usually counted as one of Impa's appearances, just for having a Z in her name, even though she has just as much in common as the rest of them do. In my opinion it shows how tenuous the connection between the different characters really is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Doesn't matter. A lot of content from Hyrule Warriors transitted over to the development of Breath of the Wild. Mainly the cutscenes. But also how Link was first a official knight of Hyrule in Hyrule Warriors, and that carried over to Breath of the Wild for example. There's also a shield that knights of Hyrule used in HW that looks a lot like one of the shields in Breath of the Wild, the design of Hyrule Castle... It might not be "canon" but it definitely has set it's stone into the Zelda franchise.

That's... completely irrelevant to Smash entirely.

We're talking about representing Impa, not Nintendo being okay with using a few ideas from HW. It was even noted that Linkle could be used in a canon game as a possibility.

So what does this have to do with why she shouldn't use her Oracle version again? Cause I'm not seeing a single actual reason here that it's a bad idea. Or even unlikely. Also, Link is a Knight well before that. He's descended from them during ALTTP. "Only a person of the Knights Of Hyrule, who protected the royalty of Hylia, can become the Hero... You are of their blood-line, aren't you? Then you must rescue Zelda without fail." — AMaiden (A Link to the Past) In addition, he attended Knight Academy in Skyward Sword. Only the Shield is a reference, and Hyrule Castle is fairly arguable.

Many of the collectathon elements of 2D platformers originated from Yoshi's Island. Before that, the Mario games were primarily about getting from one end of the stage to another, and still to this day when Mario goes 2D (and some 3D games even like 3D Land and World) that's still the case with the occasional Star Coins here and there. Yoshi's games encourage you to take your time to finish and to do other things while you're getting from one end of the stage to the other. Mario's 2D stages tend to be showcases for an obstacle gimmick that take 3-5 minutes to complete, whereas Yoshi's games are set pieces that will take you anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes depending on how you want to spend your time. Other franchises used that template, but in the context of the Mario universe, that's all Yoshi.

Except Super Mario World started the idea of collecting tons of stuff first. As well as YI is based upon Super Mario Bros. 3's style of overworld to a pretty big degree. Yoshi's Island continued it and improved on it. Also, collecting items was there since Super Mario Bros. 3. Again, this is not a major distinction nearly that much to begin with. It's an evolution of the mechanics and other Mario and Yoshi games kept to this collectathon Mechanic. It somewhat separates it, but not nearly that much either. One thing that does help is that each stage in YI is basically like playing an all new level to a degree(as you don't keep stuff like items, last I checked, just some collectable stats, like fruits.

Also, I'd say Luigi's Mansion is significantly more distinct due to extremely different gameplay. It is more tied to Mario when it comes to characters, but gameplay-wise, Yoshi is much more closer to Mario in comparison. Yoshi has some distinct factors, but is still highly recognizable as part of the Mario series too. It's only Wario that really separated itself from the Mario spin-offs. Yoshi and Luigi still are hard tied to Mario. I don't need to explain anything about how DK isn't even a Mario series spin-off either(though I don't remember if it came out before or after Yoshi's Island, for the first DKC).

 

[GoeGoe]

Owning 5% of Cygames makes all Cygames characters Nintendo characters now...?

Yeah, I didn't expect a proper apology from a jumper.

 

[StormC]

Yeah, I didn't expect a proper apology from a jumper.

If you think you were owed an apology for that post, I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[KMDP]

If Yoshi gets his own recurring cast, including his own villain, then maybe I'll buy into this a little bit more.

I was just mentally comparing Yoshi's Island, Luigi's Mansion and Wario Land...

Luigi's Mansion is very different in gameplay to Super Mario, but still it wears it's Mario roots on it's sleeve, the villain is King Boo; E. Gadd makes occasional appearances in other Mario titles (mostly ones that came out around the same time). Mario even appears in person in his most well known look. The unique elements to Luigi's Mansion (i.e. the non-Boo ghosts) stay in Luigi's Mansion.

Wario Land got increasingly different from Super Mario as time went on, Mario only makes one appearance at the very end of the first game (and in only one ending at that). All the enemies and bosses are entirely unique (and in later titles, can get very strange). No characters from Wario Land appear in mainline Mario titles, not even Wario himself. Basically by the time of Wario Land 4 the only thing Wario Land and Super Mario shared was that they were both Platformers starring Italian guys in coloured overalls.

Yoshi's Island is closely tied to Mario, sharing the same genre, but experimenting with it's aesthetics. It borrows a lot from Mario, including characters and enemies, though it still has unique characters occasionally. Like Luigi's Mansion, unique elements to Yoshi's Island stay in Yoshi's Island, but unlike Luigi's Mansion, certain non-unique elements have actually bled back into Mario (such as the idea of Kamek powering Bowser up, and Bowser Jr. looking like his father did as a baby).

 

[Zinith]

If Yoshi gets his own recurring cast, including his own villain, then maybe I'll buy into this a little bit more.

Recurring cast: The Yoshis (obviously), Poochy, the Poochy-pups, Huffin Puffins
Own Villains: Kamek (similar in role to Ridley), Baby Bowser (who only appeared outside the Yoshi games in one game)

That's not including the various unique bosses like Burt the Bashful and Bunson the Hot Dog

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Recurring cast: The Yoshis (obviously), Poochy, the Poochy-pups, Huffin Puffins
Own Villains: Kamek (similar in role to Ridley), Baby Bowser (who only appeared outside the Yoshi games in one game)

That's not including the various unique bosses like Burt the Bashful and Bunson the Hot Dog

Sorry but now that you compared Kamek to Ridley I am immensely frightened for what Kamek intends to do with those babies

 

[StormC]

Wario Land got increasingly different from Super Mario as time went on, Mario only makes one appearance at the very end of the first game (and in only one ending at that).

Mario actually appears to steal the statue in every ending. The only thing that changes in the ending is Wario's house based on your coins/treasure.

 

[Bee Card]

Anyone saw this ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...e_might_get_a_season_2_of_smash_ultimate_dlc/

It seems that we get a new trustful leaker

 

[KMDP]

Mario actually appears to steal the statue in every ending. The only thing that changes in the ending is Wario's house based on your coins/treasure.

Ah, I was misremembering that then. For some reason I thought the statue only appeared in the most basic ending (which, to be honest, why did I even think that, the statue has nothing to do with Wario's wish to the Genie).

Captain Syrup should appear in Mario spin-offs.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Own Villains: Kamek (similar in role to Ridley), Baby Bowser (who only appeared outside the Yoshi games in one game)

I'll give you Kamek sure but he's also a secondary Mario antagonist along with Bowser Jr.

And Baby Bowser is an infant version of a Mario villain

See where I'm going with this?

Plenty of Mario enemies are repurposed to be Yoshi enemies unlike with DKC and Wario Land

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77188739

If this is right then the third party charcters are likely Steve,Slime and another Western Made charcter

 

[osby]

Anyone saw this ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...e_might_get_a_season_2_of_smash_ultimate_dlc/

It seems that we get a new trustful leaker

Huh. If it's true, is that mean we'll get two seasons?

I'm not sure if I'd call them trustful (didn't they said PP was in a car?) but I'll keep it in mind.

 

[StormC]

You don't even fight Kamek outside of what, New Island? He's just there to supply magic to the bosses most of the time.

That's not a knock against Kamek, I like Kamek, but Yoshi still has yet to fully outgrow its Mario roots like DK and Wario have, and in large part because of Yoshi still showing up in mainline Mario titles. Yoshi is also sorta stuck in that nebulous "Mario prequel" realm of things.

 

[Zinith]

To be frank, Donkey Kong Country also did that before Yoshi's Island with the Bonus Areas and all that. And they perfected it with DKC2. But yes, fair point. I also prefer Yoshi's Island over Mario.

Except Super Mario World started the idea of collecting tons of stuff first. As well as YI is based upon Super Mario Bros. 3's style of overworld to a pretty big degree. Yoshi's Island continued it and improved on it. Also, collecting items was there since Super Mario Bros. 3. Again, this is not a major distinction nearly that much to begin with. It's an evolution of the mechanics and other Mario and Yoshi games kept to this collectathon Mechanic. It somewhat separates it, but not nearly that much either. One thing that does help is that each stage in YI is basically like playing an all new level to a degree(as you don't keep stuff like items, last I checked, just some collectable stats, like fruits.

Also, I'd say Luigi's Mansion is significantly more distinct due to extremely different gameplay. It is more tied to Mario when it comes to characters, but gameplay-wise, Yoshi is much more closer to Mario in comparison. Yoshi has some distinct factors, but is still highly recognizable as part of the Mario series too. It's only Wario that really separated itself from the Mario spin-offs. Yoshi and Luigi still are hard tied to Mario. I don't need to explain anything about how DK isn't even a Mario series spin-off either(though I don't remember if it came out before or after Yoshi's Island, for the first DKC).

Neither Donkey Kong Country nor Super Mario prior to Yoshi's Island implemented the collectathon elements to the extent that Yoshi's games did. Compare getting 3, 4 or even 5 pieces of a certain item (KONG letters, Dragon Coins) to get a level up to 5 Flowers, 20 hidden red coins and getting full health to unlock new levels, in Woolly World's case wool to unlock new Yoshi skins, and in Yoshi's Story and Yoshi Topsy-Turvy's case the entire game revolves around collecting a certain item. Mario implemented that into his 3D games and not really into his 2D ventures.

Also, the fact that the Luigi's Mansion games are a separate genre makes it MORE of a Mario spin-off as I see it as a niche that the Mario games fill much like the RPGs and the sports and party games. It's better to compare 2D platformers to each other than to compare one 2D platforming franchise to a "survival adventure" one...

 

[osby]

You don't even fight Kamek outside of what, New Island? He's just there to supply magic to the bosses most of the time.

That's not a knock against Kamek, I like Kamek, but Yoshi still has yet to fully outgrow its Mario roots like DK and Wario have, and in large part because of Yoshi still showing up in mainline Mario titles. Yoshi is also sorta stuck in that nebulous "Mario prequel" realm of things.

Which is kinda weird, considering most of the games take place in a bizarre, arts-and-craft world.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Sorry but now that you compared Kamek to Ridley I am immensely frightened for what Kamek intends to do with those babies

Let's just hope it doesn't lead to a game focused on storytelling where Yoshi has an internal struggle about the baby.

 

[KMDP]

Come to think of it, wasn't the statue at the end of Wario Land a statue of Princess Peach?

*looks it up*

I think Wario Land the only Mario Spin-off Series where (adult) Peach appears (Yoshi's Island has Baby Peach).

 

[Zinith]

You don't even fight Kamek outside of what, New Island? He's just there to supply magic to the bosses most of the time.

That's not a knock against Kamek, I like Kamek, but Yoshi still has yet to fully outgrow its Mario roots like DK and Wario have, and in large part because of Yoshi still showing up in mainline Mario titles. Yoshi is also sorta stuck in that nebulous "Mario prequel" realm of things.

You don't have to fight Kamek for him to be considered a villain to Yoshi. He just has to be a major and consistent obstacle to Yoshi's goals, and boy is Kamek consistent...

Also they basically left the prequel realm and are now basing the setting on entirely new universes and themes.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77188739

If this is right then the third party charcters are likely Steve,Slime and another Western Made charcter

Crash, Perhaps?
He's the next one that comes to mind for me after Steve....
He's popular in both the west, and Japan

 

[StormC]

Come to think of it, wasn't the statue at the end of Wario Land a statue of Princess Peach?

*looks it up*

I think Wario Land the only Mario Spin-off Series where (adult) Peach appears (Yoshi's Island has Baby Peach).

Wario Land 1 is also a Super Mario Land game, so it's basically where Mario passes the baton to Wario for the portable platformers. Which is almost too bad, because even though the Wario Land titles are great and hugely underappreciated, I would have loved to see what that dev team could do with a "true" Super Mario Land 3.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77188739

If this is right then the third party charcters are likely Steve,Slime and another Western Made charcter

With Banjo out I suppose the other western made character would be Rayman, or maybe Crash depending on when the DLC roster was finalized.

 

[KMDP]

Let's just hope it doesn't lead to a game focused on storytelling where Yoshi has an internal struggle about the baby.

Yoshi: *lengthy monotone monologue about his thoughts and feelings, which is unfortunately ruined by the fact that all he's saying is "Yoshi Yoshi" over and over*

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Let's just hope it doesn't lead to a game focused on storytelling where Yoshi has an internal struggle about the baby.

Turns out Yoshi has been committing tax fraud and embezzling money with the sole purpose to donating it to every orphanage after struggling to cope after witnessing a baby he couldn't save get eaten

 

[Noipoi]

Turns out Yoshi has been committing tax fraud and embezzling money with the sole purpose to donating it to every orphanage after struggling to cope after witnessing a baby he couldn't save get eaten

He commits tax fraud for good. Like an embezzling vigilante.

 

[NineS]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77188739

If this is right then the third party charcters are likely Steve,Slime and another Western Made charcter

Crash, Perhaps?
He's the next one that comes to mind for me after Steve....
He's popular in both the west, and Japan

You're all sleeping on this american-made guy.

Joking, obviously. But for what it's worth, Blizzard said that if they were going to get a character in Smash, it'd be Diablo.
Honestly, I really like his design. I would really give this guy a shot if it was him.
I don't know if Nintendo would really put a guy called "Diablo" in smash as a fighter, though...

 

[GoeGoe]

If you think you were owed an apology for that post, I really don't know what to tell you.

Simple, just say sorry for interrupting or excuse my interruption.

 

[Zinith]

I'll give you Kamek sure but he's also a secondary Mario antagonist along with Bowser Jr.

And Baby Bowser is an infant version of a Mario villain

See where I'm going with this?

Plenty of Mario enemies are repurposed to be Yoshi enemies unlike with DKC and Wario Land

Let me put it this way:

Kamek is to Ridley what Baby Bowser is to Mother Brain. Even though he's not the "big bad," he's still the character that influences the events that give Yoshi a hard time.

And if the Yoshi games are developed and marketed a certain way it doesn't matter that a lot of the enemies are repurposed Mario enemies sprinkled in with a ton of NEW enemies

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

"- Don't expect an Atlus or Bethesda rep. When he was asked about if he's heard of any Shin Megami Tensei or Persona characters being discussed, Hitagi simply replied that "none" were brought up. Same with Doomslayer."

No Persona character is sad but it's not like they had much chance.

Spoiler

- Hitagi still thinks fans will be satisfied with the characters that Nintendo will pick. When asked if fans will be happy with the characters, Hitagi said "Definitely. They all seem pretty cool in their respective ways." Although he also notes that half of the names he's heard aren't 100% confirmed.

Pfft, yeah sure. That gave me a laugh.

> goes on to say Katalina and Granblue Fantasy will be coming to Smash Ultimate
> backpedals on that saying "there are talks" (which honestly he should at this point, there are way too many counter-arguments for their inclusion in Smash whether it'd be from Cygame's financial reports and the current climate of mobages in Japan)
> Believes Steve is in, even though there is still only vaguely "Minecraft content"
> thinks fans will be satisfied with the DLC characters, even though people like him and Verge don't know most the DLC

Do I need to do a Critique That Leak? Screw base roster speculation, I'm at this point ready for the second wave of speculation to see where this goes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He commits tax fraud for good. Like an embezzling vigilante.

He's well aware he can't even get a job at a smoothie bar anymore and knew this would happen once he eventually got caught. But he doesn't regret it. Society may have cast him out to die homeless during the harsh winters, but he knows his actions mean that no child must endure the same fate

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

You're all sleeping on this american-made guy.

Joking, obviously. But for what it's worth, Blizzard said that if they were going to get a character in Smash, it'd be Diablo.
Honestly, I really like his design. I would really give this guy a shot if it was him.

I'm sorry, but there's no way that Diablo of all Blizzard characters is getting in an E10+ Game

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

You're all sleeping on this american-made guy.

Joking, obviously. But for what it's worth, Blizzard said that if they were going to get a character in Smash, it'd be Diablo.
Honestly, I really like his design. I would really give this guy a shot if it was him.
I don't know if Nintendo would really put a guy called "Diablo" in smash as a fighter, though...

So no Tracer in Smash

 

[vaanrose]

Yoshi was at the, ahem, zenith of his popularity when the first Smash game was in production, and was fortunate enough to have had a spinoff already (unlike Luigi), so the game acknowledged that.

Notably, however, his design in Smash 64 is still very clearly the SMW Yoshi, not the redesigned YI/YS Yoshi. And then in Melee, the Yoshi stage is also from SMW, despite being counted as part of the Yoshi's series, which now means that music from SMW is considered part of a different series than stages from SMW. The precedent is clearly established that the two series weren't considered separate even in the beginning.

 

[UberMadman]

Since the talk has gone to Kamek, I'd like to mention that we probably won't get him as a playable character because he's a stage hazard:

And since he's directly responsible for the transformations, you can't just Alfonzo him out. It's a shame, too; I think Kamek would actually make for a great playable character. I know that people weren't directly talking about him in the context of being playable, and I'm sure a lot of users in this thread probably already know this fact, but for those who didn't whose minds may have drifted towards playable Kamek, I figured I'd point this out.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

I would be very sad if we don't get an Atlus charcter but i would sadly understand

 

[NineS]

So no Tracer in Smash

yeah, pretty much. don't take my word for it, take theirs.

 

[Zinith]

Since the talk has gone to Kamek, I'd like to mention that we probably won't get him as a playable character because he's a stage hazard:

And since he's directly responsible for the transformations, you can't just Alfonzo him out. It's a shame, too; I think Kamek would actually make for a great playable character. I know that people weren't directly talking about him in the context of being playable, and I'm sure a lot of users in this thread probably already know this fact, but for those who didn't whose minds may have drifted towards playable Kamek, I figured I'd point this out.

I would've agreed with you, if it wasn't for...

https://smashboards.com/threads/chrom-confirmed-as-robins-final-smash-and-playable-character.463373/