Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kingslime304]

Oh crud,
I just realized that Lucas is Ninendo's Courage the Cowardly dog.
Think about it:
-Both live in a place with "Nowhere" in the name
-Both are depressed about their loved ones not being with them
-Both are cowards (At least Lucas is one in SSE until gets over it)
-Both are not much connected towards technology
-Both fought against organized armies
-Both of their series have creatures that feel grief over their child
and
-Both are in someway neglected from one of their older figures who lives with them
(Flint ignores Lucas to find Claus, while Eustace ignores Courage for being a "Stupid dog")

Not only that, but the major difference between the two is that while Courage despite his downfalls, still does anything he can without much difficulty from his emotions (Hence probably the quote "The things I do for love"), Lucas, being a child, not only has the people he loved get taken away from him (Both physically, and figuratively) but the nature of the town he loved and the some parts of the world around him are gone (Due to the townspeople rediscovering technology from Fassad's, and New Pork City) unlike Courage's, making him more depressed and probably outburst-ive (Especially in Chapter 1).

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Just give him a head of fiery hair and a turbocharged backpack.

Just when I thought I had forgotten all about that show, you just had to remind me that it existed.

 

[StrawHatX]

IMO Sora being in doesn't open doors any more than the portable KH games already have.

They got Cloud 3 years ago, remember? I'm sure Cloud may have been a sign that Squenix and Nintendo were bonding a bit but definitely didn't open it up.

I'd believe this if KH games for the Switch were announced yet. When they are, forget my arguing.

I’m not a big KH fan, but I feel like more people would be more interested in playing KH and KH 2 on the Switch then any of them were playing the side KH games on the Gameboy.

 

[DraginHikari]

The Final Fantasy ports are more due to SE being more confident in the Switch and trying to get some games on it. I think Cloud in Smash has little to do with it.

I think people overstate how much Smash influences these kind of things.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, let's consider the following:

Sakurai said the characters have to be realisable, right? I wonder if this can mean "no waste of resources that have already been made for the game". ATs are purposely made to be less detailed and simpler then playable characters, so it's possible that Sakurai can still stick to his guns while working within Nintendo's guidelines.

For maximum consistency the sword of seals breaks after landing 25 hits and he doesn't get a new one until he respawns.

Heh, reminds me of this:

https://www.deviantart.com/thegreyzen/art/Got-Smashed-735953089

 

[Luigi The President]

I’m not a big KH fan, but I feel like more people would be more interested in playing KH and KH 2 on the Switch then any of them were playing the side KH games on the Gameboy.

Oh definitely. But until those ports materialize I'm not going to speculate with the mindset that they exist.

 

[TheCJBrine]

So, um.

I heard Jon from GameXplain said good things about Geno.

edit: I didn't mean this as Geno's chances were boosted, but that it's nice to hear good things said about Geno. Though I also heard they dragged Bandana Dee through the dirt so that sucks... (although apparently Derrick said nice things about him and wants him)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I never said they were gonna choose Dixie, lol.

A character like Bandana Dee would make a TON of money exclusively for Nintendo, moreso than most first parties.
In my mind there's only 3 potential Nintendo characters for DLC. And they'll assumedly be VERY MUCH heavy hitters, nothing like Dixie.

One of the reasons why I think Bandana Dee will be among the DLC characters.

 

[staindgrey]

So, this isn't even remotely on topic, but I'm currently stuck in an airport boarding area waiting on a thunderstorm to pass and I feel like posting it.

I commissioned Noipoi for art in a new video on our channel, and while it's kind of meant for subscribers interested in our channel already, I thought I'd share in case anyone was interested in more stuff drawn by him. It's not a poster #3, but it's something!

Here it is. It's short and was animated in a single evening, but all the character art is by him! I figured I'd make it a link since an imbedded off-topic video is probably too much.

 

[StrawHatX]

The Final Fantasy ports are more due to SE being more confident in the Switch and trying to get some games on it. I think Cloud in Smash has little to do with it.

I’m just saying I think Cloud was opening the gates with Nintendo and Square being more open to work with one another again. But maybe I’m wrong.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I never said they were gonna choose Dixie, lol.

A character like Bandana Dee would make a TON of money exclusively for Nintendo, moreso than most first parties.
In my mind there's only 3 potential Nintendo characters for DLC. And they'll assumedly be VERY MUCH heavy hitters, nothing like Dixie.

How is Bandanna Dee any more we’ll known than Dixie Kong? That character has a vastly over inflated sense of recognition. Unless you’re a Kirby or Smash fan. You don’t know who or what it is.

 

[Luigi The President]

So, um.

I heard Jon from GameXplain said good things about Geno.

Jon also said Shadow was a semi-clone

 

[SmashChu]

I’m just saying I think Cloud was opening the gates with Nintendo and Square being more open to work with one another again. But maybe I’m wrong.

I think its more like someone else said. It's ascribing things to Smash that are irrelevant. Nintendo was working well with SE before with Dragon Quest. I would say the Switch's success and Octopath Travelers success were the biggest influences here.

 

[KarneraMythos]

The thing about the relevancy argument is that it's not especially forward thinking.

Just because a character isn't relevant now doesn't mean they can't become relevant again later.

Little Mac? Wasn't relevant in Brawl, but known enough to justify an Assist Trophy. After Brawl, Punch-Out!! Wii came out, and suddenly Little Mac was relevant again.

Not only that, but the relevancy can work in the opposite way.

K. Rool wasn't relevant, but now he is, because he's in Smash Bros. now, one would assume that this will probably lead to him making an appearance in at least one future DKC game.

Not to mention that relevancy is usually used as a buzzword to downplay a character's merits, generally in favour of a more contemporary alternative.

It's become such a forced blanket term that it may as well be synonymous to the phrase, "I only want characters my grandmother can call out", which is too safe, boring as sin, and requires no imagination or even thinking. Part of the charm in crossover games is the potential to add characters across eras no matter how well their origins were, will be, or even matter. Their inclusion in Smash at all is acknowledgement of what they've done, what they will do, and where they are in time that will remind people that, "Yep, this character is in Smash. I still can't wrap my head around it."

I petition we get rid of the word "relevancy" in our vernacular, at least for Smash. It can go burn in the pits of Zebes for all I care.

I know I’m in the minority, but the more Nintendo characters get in, the sadder i’ll be. I personally hate most of Nintendo’s library. I play Smash to bash Mario’s smug plumber face in with third party fighters (I main almost every third party fighter because of this). So if they do a ton of first party reps, i’ll be sad because the odds of me liking or caring about them is drastically diminished.

Unless Nintendo strongarms Sakurai into lifting certain characters from Mii Fighter/Assist Trophy Hell, there's no one else they can add that will induce hype within the fanbase. There's Dixie, Bandana Dee, and a Rhythm Heaven rep, but they can't carry DLC on their own. It would serve to reason that the line-up will consist of characters who are popular enough to carry entire camps on their own. Nothing against the three characters I mentioned either. I'm just saying that as far as fanbases go, their numbers and total vocal participants don't hold a candle to the likes of Sora's fans or even Dante's. Part of this is why I hope we get more than just 5 characters, so that there is one half 1st-party and one half 3rd-party.

Thing is first party would make money EXCLUSIVELY for Nintendo.
Third parties would have their money divided up every sale most likely.

It's a risky game with third parties.

So basically, either build up your consumer-base even further, or shill the hell out of your properties and hope it reaches out to your younger sibling, your cousins, and the kids in your neighborhood. One makes them more money, but the other earns them more followers. Is there such a thing as long-term or short-term here? I kind of feel like we're potentially facing a Morton's Fork scenario.

One idea is to have two of the DLC characters be 1st-party and the other three be guest characters. If you count Piranha Plant as a sixth character, that would be 3 Nintendo and 3 guests, which could bring Nintendo a bit of both. Hopefully, this idea doesn't come out the wrong way for some...

 

[Robertman2]

Thing is first party would make money EXCLUSIVELY for Nintendo.
Third parties would have their money divided up every sale most likely.

It's a risky game with third parties.

Eh, the amount they'd sell would offset that.

Also copies of the game and even Switches sold thanks to fans of those series

 

[Luigi The President]

How is Bandanna Dee any more we’ll known than Dixie Kong? That character has a vastly over inflated sense of recognition. Unless you’re a Kirby or Smash fan. You don’t know who or what it is.

It's that Waddle Dee's themselves are a MASSIVE trend in Japan, and the character of Bandana Dee is FAR more well-known and beloved IN MODERN TIMES especially with Smash Bros. Don't fool yourself here. He's got a TON of kid appeal.

I love Dixie, but let's face the facts here.

 

[DraginHikari]

I’m just saying I think Cloud was opening the gates with Nintendo and Square being more open to work with one another again. But maybe I’m wrong.

I'd put the Sales success of the Switch over anything frankly.

 

[StrawHatX]

So, um.

I heard Jon from GameXplain said good things about Geno.

Isn’t he only known for getting certain games right like Kirby’s Epic Yarn for the 3DS and the FF ports?

As far as I know the only Smash thing he predicted was Isabelle not being an Echo. Didn’t he also say he didn’t think K. Rool would be in the game right before his reveal?

 

[Robertman2]

So, um.

I heard Jon from GameXplain said good things about Geno.

ask him how that shadow echo fighter is coming

 

[KMDP]

Third parties would make far more money than first parties. And more importantly, far more hype

It really depends on who the character is more than whether or not the character is first or third party.

Waluigi, Toad, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Lyn, Hector, Isaac and Spring Man/Ribbon Girl (among others) would definitely produce hype (and therefore purchases).

Raiden, Bomberman, Tails, Shadow, Joker, Sephiroth, Tifa, Sora, Slime, Crono, Lara Croft, Crash, Ray-Man and others would also produce hype.

If you picked, say, a Generic Fire Emblem Soldier, they'd have to be a pretty hard sell to draw people in.

I guess the third party example would be, like, Bubsy or something. Sure there're people who actually like him, and people who'd buy him anyway, but he'd have to look pretty damn good to get the average audience to want to buy him.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think everyone tends to forget with Smash that other parts of the world than Japan exist.

One character might be straight fire to Japan.

But to another part of the world they're a literal ''Who?!"

 

[CallMeKnux]

By all definitions Sm4sh is the best game in the series imo. But where it fails is just, identity. Like, take a look at the rest of the series.

64 - The classic one, the OG.
Melee - The hardcore, competitive, and massively expanded sequel.
Brawl - The less competitive, more party-based threequel with a more realistic artstyle.
Ultimate - Literally everything packed into a single sexy cartridge.

All those games have identities, they stand out as being themselves in the lineup of Smash games. But Sm4sh just.. doesn't. This is most well represented by the title. All of the other games, with the exception of the original, all have a hype subtitle to give it it's own legacy and importance. But for the 4th game, it's just.. Smash Bros. For Wii U and 3DS. With this in mind, it merely presents itself as "just another Smash game". This cn even be heard in the game's main theme - while all others seem to portray some sort of large amount of hype for what you're about to get into, as if it's hyping you up for the next big Smash Bros. game, (besides the OG, but it's the OG) but for Sm4sh, it just sounds.. super generic. There's a bit of that hype, but not as much as it's peers.

That's just my opinions ofc.

 

[Starbound]

What if Nintendo picked an ARMS character and we got Twintelle?

She's got a float like Peach and has a pseudo-Witch Time effect while floating or charging attacks (it's more for defensive play, rather than setting up combos). Plus it'd be cool to actually have someone fight with their hair.

My quick moveset sketch would be:
Neutral Special: Charge. Charge up your hair-arms to boost their power and unlock their elemental effects. Incoming attacks are slowed down via Actress Aura, and you can perform any dodge out of this move.
Side Special: Rush. A quick 1-2-3 punch combo uncharged. When charged, this is a fullout 9 hit combo with a powerful finisher.
Up Special: Actress Assault. The hair-arms propel forward and Twintelle launches in their direction when they attach to something. Think slingshot.
Down Special: ARMS change. Swaps between Chilla, Thunderbird and Parasol arms. The moveset doesn't change, but it changes the properties of her attacks.

• Chilla is the strongest and freezes foes when fully charged.
• Thunderbird is the fastest, and has a paralyze effect when fully charged.
• Parasol blocks projectiles while travelling, and has increased knockback when fully charged (with a wind effect).

 

[Luigi The President]

What if Nintendo picked an ARMS character and we got Twintelle?

She's got a float like Peach and has a pseudo-Witch Time effect while floating or charging attacks (it's more for defensive play, rather than setting up combos). Plus it'd be cool to actually have someone fight with their hair.

My quick moveset sketch would be:
Neutral Special: Charge. Charge up your hair-arms to boost their power and unlock their elemental effects. Incoming attacks are slowed down via Actress Aura, and you can perform any dodge out of this move.
Side Special: Rush. A quick 1-2-3 punch combo uncharged. When charged, this is a fullout 9 hit combo with a powerful finisher.
Up Special: Actress Assault. The hair-arms propel forward and Twintelle launches in their direction when they attach to something. Think slingshot.
Down Special: ARMS change. Swaps between Chilla, Thunderbird and Parasol arms.

• Chilla is the strongest and freezes foes when fully charged.
• Thunderbird is the fastest, and has a paralyze effect when fully charged.
• Parasol blocks projectiles while travelling, and has increased knockback when fully charged (with a wind effect).

Oh god please I want this so badly

 

[TheCJBrine]

At least he said good things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The others said things that were incorrect (not opinions, but supposed facts).

I'm not saying "Jon said it's Geno's time so Geno is in," but rather the good things about Geno which are nice to hear~

 

[Bionichute]

How is Bandanna Dee any more we’ll known than Dixie Kong? That character has a vastly over inflated sense of recognition. Unless you’re a Kirby or Smash fan. You don’t know who or what it is.

kirby is amazingly popular in japan and star allies is the best selling kirby game ever, and it also has waddle dee as a playable character

waddle dees themselves are basically secondary mascots next to kirby, they're big enough that the inciting rewards for going to the kirby cafe while it was open was various waddle dee paraphernalia (alongside kirby of course). he's a major character in the series, the last of the four core kirby characters in smash. a lot of people in japan want him, he's basically first place in estimated ballot results after k rool was revealed

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I wish they’d just tell us who’s in the pass. Ideally they’d do what they did with Mewtwo and show us the WIP models, but they could just give us a text list and i’d be happy. I’d actually know if I have reason to be hyped, instead of the kind of anti hype not knowing tends to instill.

 

[Idon]

What if Nintendo picked an ARMS character and we got Twintelle?

She's got a float like Peach and has a pseudo-Witch Time effect while floating or charging attacks (it's more for defensive play, rather than setting up combos). Plus it'd be cool to actually have someone fight with their hair.

My quick moveset sketch would be:
Neutral Special: Charge. Charge up your hair-arms to boost their power and unlock their elemental effects. Incoming attacks are slowed down via Actress Aura, and you can perform any dodge out of this move.
Side Special: Rush. A quick 1-2-3 punch combo uncharged. When charged, this is a fullout 9 hit combo with a powerful finisher.
Up Special: Actress Assault. The hair-arms propel forward and Twintelle launches in their direction when they attach to something. Think slingshot.
Down Special: ARMS change. Swaps between Chilla, Thunderbird and Parasol arms.

• Chilla is the strongest and freezes foes when fully charged.
• Thunderbird is the fastest, and has a paralyze effect when fully charged.
• Parasol blocks projectiles while travelling, and has increased knockback when fully charged (with a wind effect).

She's got one big flaw, though.
She's not Min Min, who as we all know is best best.

 

[Robertman2]

What if Nintendo picked an ARMS character and we got Twintelle?

She's got a float like Peach and has a pseudo-Witch Time effect while floating or charging attacks (it's more for defensive play, rather than setting up combos). Plus it'd be cool to actually have someone fight with their hair.

My quick moveset sketch would be:
Neutral Special: Charge. Charge up your hair-arms to boost their power and unlock their elemental effects. Incoming attacks are slowed down via Actress Aura, and you can perform any dodge out of this move.
Side Special: Rush. A quick 1-2-3 punch combo uncharged. When charged, this is a fullout 9 hit combo with a powerful finisher.
Up Special: Actress Assault. The hair-arms propel forward and Twintelle launches in their direction when they attach to something. Think slingshot.
Down Special: ARMS change. Swaps between Chilla, Thunderbird and Parasol arms. The moveset doesn't change, but it changes the properties of her attacks.

• Chilla is the strongest and freezes foes when fully charged.
• Thunderbird is the fastest, and has a paralyze effect when fully charged.
• Parasol blocks projectiles while travelling, and has increased knockback when fully charged (with a wind effect).

hell yeah more twintelle porn

 

[SnakeFighter64]

kirby is amazingly popular in japan and star allies is the best selling kirby game ever, and it also has waddle dee as a playable character

waddle dees themselves are basically secondary mascots next to kirby, they're big enough that the inciting rewards for going to the kirby cafe while it was open was various waddle dee paraphernalia (alongside kirby of course). he's a major character in the series, the last of the four core kirby characters in smash. a lot of people in japan want him, he's basically first place in estimated ballot results after k rool was revealed

https://youtu.be/BwSts2s4ba4

 

[PLATINUM7]

ask him how that shadow echo fighter is coming

Pretty good actually.

Because he isn't an echo. He's an assist

EDIT: Thought you said Shadow in but not an echo
I derped

 

[ClaTheBae]

I went and saw the grinch and I did nothing but shoot an automatic rifle at the screen for the entire length of the film so you guys are all welcome

 

[KMDP]

I think everyone tends to forget with Smash that other parts of the world than Japan exist.

To be fair, this was kinda Sakurai until Smash 4.

 

[Luigi The President]

https://youtu.be/BwSts2s4ba4

"WAHAHAHA I'M GOING TO LE OWN YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU PROVIDED ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR POPULARITY WITH THIS MEME!!!"

Let's cool it. Been here one day. Learn tha ropes.

 

[Starbound]

She's got one big flaw, though.
She's not Min Min, who as we all know is best best.

Actually that'd be really cool!

She gets stronger by having the dragon arm and the goal is maintaining the powered up form.

gah ARMS has too many cool character designs!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And you can't exactly accuse Sakurai of Japan bias when he puts in fighters like Little Mac, Ridley, hell even Bayonetta isn't exactly lighting things on fire in Japan either.

He does add characters that are more known to the other parts of the world.

From the sounds of some of you guys? He straight up adds Japanese favorites and Japanese favorites only.

 

[StrawHatX]

I wish they’d just tell us who’s in the pass. Ideally they’d do what they did with Mewtwo and show us the WIP models, but they could just give us a text list and i’d be happy. I’d actually know if I have reason to be hyped, instead of the kind of anti hype not knowing tends to instill.

It would be nice if Nintendo let people know who was going to be in it before dropping $25 to buy the whole thing.

 

[Deleted member]

So, um.

I heard Jon from GameXplain said good things about Geno.

OF COURSE THE MOST GOOD LOOKING MEMBER OF THAT ****ING CHANNEL WOULD SAY THAT, HELL YEAH BOYS, I TOLD Y'ALL ABOUT THE SPLASH SCREEN!

...Uh, yeah. Hey Luigi The President I told them about the splash screen. They never listened.

Pepe Silvia is real amongst us.

 

[Luigi The President]

OF COURSE THE MOST GOOD LOOKING MEMBER OF THAT ****ING CHANNEL WOULD SAY THAT, HELL YEAH BOYS, I TOLD Y'ALL ABOUT THE SPLASH SCREEN!

...Uh, yeah. Hey Luigi The President I told them about the splash screen. They never listened.

Pepe Silvia is real amongst us.

Ahh the Splash Screen.

At this point Tots I think that's the only Geno Splash Screen we're gonna get.

Hold me.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Okay so I didn't mean Geno is for-sure getting in because of Jon's words but rather that it was nice to hear someone say good things about Geno; the other GX guys stated some incorrect facts~

Though I also heard they dragged Bandana Dee through the dirt so that sucks (although Derrick really wants him).